need SKS and/or AK47 advice (7.62 x 39)

Michael

Active Member
I'm interested in one of these rifles, as I'm looking for a semi-auto with modest recoil, reasonable accuracy and lower cost than the "black rifles". I've shot both SKS and AK-47 occasionally, but am not sufficiently familiar with them to distinguish the "good" from the mediocre to the execrable. As with most things, the internet is replete with advice; some say Yugoslav, others say Chinese, others say Romanian. I prefer the original Soviet article, but they are either illegal or exquisitely expensive or have other problems, and I don't want to run afoul of any 3-letter agency. There are no problems as far as my state is concerned - only federal issues. I'm not interested in the Rambo/Delta-Force widgets (folding stock, bayonet, drum-magazine), or anything with collectible/rare military history - just a basic semi-auto for backyard target practice (I live in the boonies).

So...

- any good links, with credible advice?
- what things to look for, upon first inspection (in a retail store I will not be able to work the trigger, obviously!)
- pros/cons between SKS and AK-47?
- preferred national origin?
 
Id strongly suggest looking for and purchasing a MILLED RECEIVER, AK,

the stamped version was designed to be easy and cheap to manufacture, in huge quantity, and the basic idea was to supply a rifle that would function and last a few years as in military use, accuracy was of far less concern than dependable function for several thousand shots, and low manufacturing cost.
keep in mind to the soviet way of thinking, a stamped receivers ok,
as they don't expect a soldier to live long enough in combat,
to wear one out, and if they do, giving him , a new rifles certainly cheap to do,

they figured any soldier was not likely to live long enough to wear it out and on the odd chance he did, swapping the old one out for a new one was going to be a much cheaper option than supplying all the soldiers with the much more durable milled receiver versions.
the older design, sks is ok but theres far less parts and dependable detachable magazines available (see picture below) not stamped sheet metal, as the milled receiver carbines tend to be more accurate, and surely over the long term, if you keep up reasonable maintenance and lubrications, more durable ' easily lasting a life time of average use. Id also look for a chrome lined bore
Russian, Bulgarian, or American, made and Israeli made versions like the GALIL preferred

milled.jpg


MILLED RECEIVERS LIKE ABOVE ARE IN MY OPINION MUCH
PREFERRED

if your hunting hogs in florida
norsp.jpg

btw just a tip, if reloading , AK AMMO,
use the 123-125 grain .310-or- .311 projectiles the ak was designed to use ,
as the typical .308 diameter projectiles
(especially the 150 grain versions)
frequently result in terrible accuracy in most cases

https://www.sierrabullets.com/product/303-caliber-7-7mm-125-gr-spt/

https://www.speer.com/bullets/rifle_bullets/gold_dot_rifle_component_bullet/19-310123GDB.html

ground.jpg

riveted sheet metal BUT FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN OVER DECADES,
LOTS OF PROBLEMS OVER THE LONG TERM, stamped receivers flex and crack eventually but your very unlikely to shoot anywhere close to that many shots.
as youll go through several barrels without issues in most guns

but generally stamped receivers are ok for the first 5K -10K rounds, and certainly barrels and other components can be replaced, on a milled receiver gun, ate any armory set up to do so, while stamped receiver guns are generally salvaged for internal parts, and stripped receivers thrown in the trash and a whole new replacement gun then issued, as the cost to replace with a stamped receiver gun rather than revamp, a milled receiver is marginal and issuing a stamped replacement easier and faster.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/7-62-39-deer-hunting-ammo.14831/#post-82540


not all AK based rifles are hopelessly inaccurate,
military stamped steel receivers , iron sights short sight radius,
and non-chrome lined barrels like the picture above, tend to shoot 2"-5" 100 yard groups

forged receiver versions with chrome-lined barrels like the picture below,
readily accept the 30 round magazines
and 2"-3" 100 yard groups with iron sights are quite common and with a decent scope and mounts
and longer barrels ,1.5":-2" groups are rather the norm, yeah the Norinco trigger sucks, but you can improve it and get used to using it.
it will never beat a bull barrel AR for accuracy, but its certainly a decent 100-150 yard deer rifle if proper ammo is used in skilled hands
if your hunting hogs in florida
norsp.jpg


http://www.firearmlicense.org/ak-47-cen ... eview.php/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHyixxEa ... re=related

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga_semi-automatic_rifle
 
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hey,
I dont know for the AK-47, they are banned/prohibited here so i will never shoot one of my life(jus like the FN FAL L1A1, wish i could have one of these).. But i have the Russian SKS45 refurbished.
I have seen a few of these chinese SKS and for almost the same price the refurbished russian are much better.(i buy my refurbished russian for about 300$ with tax and shipping to my house door.) The chinese looks like... you know it.
The russian have the chrome lined barrel, they probably all do.
If you want a good cheap black rifle there is the norinco/poly tech M305(M14s), i know they are chinese the older batch where crap, but the 2009 and later are real nice, chrome lined barrel and they are made to spec.. they just need some tweaking to get sob-moa. I think those are banned in the USA now.

Also for a little more expensive.. the laminate stock is stronger, mine is not a laminate stock and i have no reliability problem so far.
I never seen the yugo, but many people say they are "holy grail" of the sks line, i dont like the bayonnet on those models.

If you go the refurbished route, check for the number. I was lucky enough to get one matching numbers.
What i hate with the refurbished is.. they paint black (no cold blue, just paint..) the bolt carrier(if that is the correct name), i did strip the paint and do a polishing job to mine, now it looks wonderfull :).

Now, if you get one used.. Check for slack on the stock(up/down), thats the problem with mine after a little use.. had to do some gunsmith at home and that resulted in much better accuracy.
You probably know that, but if you shoot surplus the 7.62x39 is a corrosive ammunition so you have to clean the barrel/rifle everyonce it see use. Otherwise it will rust in less then one day.

Overall they are good rifle, the stock is short a little too much, and the rifle is a little heavy(that usual with war surplus rifle) and it has a longer barrel then the ak-47(more accuraccy?).
Some people fit an ak-47 mag to these rifle, thats good if you like ammo jam all the time...

Let me tell you, for that price(around 300$ shipped down here) they are really a great rifle. Really accurate(keeping in mind, its not a long range rifle/its small 7.62x39 caliber) But it can do pretty well on medium/long range too.
Hope it help :)

Now, why you people cant try the trigger when you go to buy a rifle?
When i go to the gunsmith new or used, we can have the rifle on our hand and aim at the wall around and cycle the action/try the trigger pull if we want to. The old man is really nice, you dont ask nothing and he land a rifle on your hand everyonce :p
 
I use a Russian SKS, and really like it alot. It's a bit heavier than an AK, but it's built like a brick outhouse. It has a chrome lined bore with a stainless bolt. I've abused that thing time and time again, and it keeps right on ticking.
The SKS usually comes with a stripper clip top feed and small ammo mag, but mine will detach for a variety of mags.
It's a cheap dependable piece that's fun to use and modify.

http://www.rifletech.net/cgi-bin/shop.pl/page=sks4.html

In my experience, Chinese arms are a waste of $$$ = Junk! I've seen a lot of inferior metal, parts, tolerances and assy work. I won't even look at one.

I've also done some 7.62X39 ammo testing for feed reliability and accuracy. I have several domestic and import arms for this caliber.
I tried a variety of domestic and import ammo as well, from $2 - $20 a box. Varying weights and bullet configs.
And the winner was (I couldn't believe it either) the cheap steel cased Russian hunting ammo (the spire tip with the pin hole in the end).
I wouldn't suggest use of the cheap corrosive ammo, just not worth it.

So for me, this piece is cheap to buy, cheap to maintain & modify, and cheap to feed. And tons of fun to use!
 
the Chinese built rifles come in several grades from "JUNK" to rather nice, so obviously you need to shop very carefully and know what your looking at.


The 7.62x39 first saw the light of day in 1943 as a new development for a Russian assault rifle. After WWII the AK47 rifle that was eventually adopted by the Russians chambered it. Its military application can be compared to the American .30 M1 Carbine, although the 7.62x39 is considerably more powerful.

This cartridge has been adopted by many countries for their standard infantry rifles. Even so, it falls far short of an all-up infantry-rifle cartridge like the .30-06 or the .308. This cartridge was seldom reloaded in the U.S. before the later 1980s.

An excellent application today is in bolt-action pistols and single-shot Thompson/ Center handguns. It is powerful enough for deer-size game at modest ranges and makes a fine cartridge for recoil-sensitive shooters as long as it isn't used for any large game that is beyond its capabilities.

Reloading for the 7.62x39 is straightforward. Dies are easy to obtain. The set we used this month was made by Lee Precision. Good cases are readily available. In this country Cor-Bon, Remington, Winchester and Remington all load for this caliber. Lapua and Sellier & Bellot also distribute Boxer-primed ammo in this country.

Some other imported ammo (especially the cheap stuff) has Berdan primers and is a giant pain to reload, so be careful what you buy to get cases. Of course, if you find fired cases you can look inside and tell which primers were used. The primers used for these loads were all the Standard Large Rifle size, no magnums.

There are plenty of powders that are suitable. They are all found at the fast end of the list of rifle powder burning rates. When using the maximum loads of the slower powders, I had to revert to an old trick to be able to get all the powder in the case. If you use a long drop tube on your powder funnel and pour the powder in very slowly, you can fit more powder in the case. It just packs in better when it drops farther into the case. Actually, there's nothing wrong with using a long drop tube all the time. As with chicken soup, "it can't hoit."

The 7.62x39 does present one unique problem for the reloader. Some guns, especially those of foreign manufacture, have .311-groove-diameter barrels, and some are .308. I don't think it's a good idea at all to use .311 bullets in a .308 barrel, although you can find some sources that say it is OK. The larger-diameter bullets will cause pressures to go up, and accuracy is sure to suffer. It is best to measure (or have measured) your barrel and use the proper-size bullets. Lee's dies come standard with neck-sizing pins for both sizes in the set.
7.62x39 LOAD DATA Bullet Bullet Weight (gr.) Powder .... Primer ........... Case Starting Load (grs.) Maximum Load (grs.) Max. Muzzle Velocity (fps)
Hornady FMJ 90 ............................. Alliant 2400 Federal 210..... Winchester 18.0 ............ 21.01 ...................2,850
Hornady FMJ 90 ............................. Vihta Vuori N110 Winchester LR .IMI .............19.0 ....... 22.0 ..................... 2,880
Hornady FMJ 90 ................................Hodgdon H110 CCI 200 ..............Winchester 19.0 .............22.5 .................... 2,860
Hornady RN 110 ............................ Accurate 1680 Federal 210 .......IMI .............23.0 ..............28.0 ................... 2,770
Hornady RN 110 ........................... Norma N 200 Winchester LR ........Winchester 22.0 ..............26.5 ................... 2,550
Sierra Spitzer Pro-Hunter 125 ...................Accurate 201 5BR CCI 200 ........IMI .............24.0 ............ 27.0 ..........................2,250
Sierra Spitzer Pro-Hunter 125............... Vihta Vuori N120 Federal 210 .... Winchester 21.0......... 25.0 ..................... 2,450
Sierra Spitzer Pro-Hunter 125 ................ RS X-Terminator Winchester LR IMI .............25.0 ..............30.0 ...................2,350
Nosler Ballistic Tip 125 ..................... Alliant R1-7 CCI 200 .............Winchester 22.0 .............26.0 .................... 2,425
Nosler Ballistic Tip 125..................... IMR 4227 Federal 210 .............IMI ..............19.0 ....... 22.5 .................... 2,375
Barnes Triple Shock 130 ..................... Hodgdon H4198 Winchester LR Winchester 22.0 ..............25.5 ................... 2,450
Barnes Triple Shock 130 ..........................Norma N-201 CCI-200 .............IMI ..............24.0 ........ 28.0 ..........................2,275
Speer HP 130 .......................................RS TAC ........Federal 210 .......Winchester 26.0 ..............30.0 .................... 2,350
Speer HP 130 .................................. Winchester 296 Winchester LR .... IMI .............14.0 ..............18.0 ................... 2,200
 
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how many of you gentlemen have used a semi auto military style rifle, like an M1A1 or SKS, or GARAND, or M1 CARBINE
to hunt deer/elk/hogs?
about 20 years ago I went looking for a ruger 44 mag semi auto carbine ,
ruger44car.jpg

but I could not find one in decent condition for anything near what I thought was a reasonable price.
I eventually found, purchased and used an SKS with a modified 4 round magazine loaded with hand loaded soft point ammo in the past to hunt Florida deer in the palmetto thicket.
properly loaded with 150 grain soft point bullets they are about similar to a typical 30/30 in effective range and accuracy .
these are handy little carbines for close range hunting.
at least here in south Florida an SKS or AK based sporter is far easier to find under $600 than a ruger 44 mag carbine
akml1.jpg

akml1.jpg


it worked so well for the close range hog hunting that one of my friends who could not find one offered me three times what I paid for it.
I jumped at that deal figuring I could very easily buy two for the cash I was paid....only to find the price had tippled....
so I added about $70 more to the pot and bought one of these , milled receiver sporting rifles (pictured below) ,
AK sporters, like this are surprisingly well made and accurate provided you find ammo it likes, and BTW they require the .311 diameter projectile (at least in my rifle)
as the .308 diameter bullets loaded in similar hand loads,resulted in absurdly in-accurate ammo, like trowing rocks for accuracy, RL7 and IMR 3031 powder seems to work well, and I found a 5 round AK mag that worked in that rifle,
as florida law limits semi auto rifles to 5 round mags
The AK sporter ,which was even better for the 20-70 yard ranges common while hunting thicket dwelling hogs.
keep in mind that just because its a semi-auto there,s no reason too adopt a
"SPRAY AND PRAY" philosophy , the rifles are extremely dependable, reasonably accurate and a well placed first shot is still the goal.
the fact that your second shot is easily accessed is not a flaw, its just a rarely used advantage in my opinion.
if your hunting hogs in florida
norsp.jpg


https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullets/311/311-150-sptz-bullet
akml2.jpg

5akm.jpg


https://loaddata.com/Article/BenchTopics/Handloads-for-the-762x39/101

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=7.62 x 39&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=

typical palmetto thickets where 20 -40 yard shots are the normal range, and where some areas where use of a climbing tree stand offer's you a big advantage

akml3.jpg

flamedo.jpg


flamedoa.jpg

akml4.jpg

I've used a 357 mag revolver,
a single shot 10 ga, and even a spear on one successful hog hunt ,
the weapon is not critical as long as the person using it is willing to get in close,
and use it effectively,
but if you choose a spear Id suggest you also use dogs to help you get in close
 
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