Not your Grandmother's 305 Chevy heads

Loves302Chevy

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Are these heads big enough for a 383 Chevy daily driver street car? They came off of my trashed 334 (stroked 305) and I was hoping to re-use the rotating assembly with new pistons in a 350/383 block and also re-use the heads. I knew they were IRON World Products S/R Torquer 58cc for 305 Chevy (170cc intake runners). I was surprised to find out that they had 2.02/1.6 valves and the chambers overhung the bores. While I was cleaning them, I noticed that the choke points were unequal. They were gasket matched and bowl-blended by Racers' Head Service, and now (after 80+ hours of grinding by me) completely ported and smoothed and the choke points are equalized. Choke measures .95 x 1.90, which equals 1.805 sq in. and would allow only 5155 rpm in a 383 (5872 rpm for the 334). Brzezinski Racing has flow numbers for these ported heads: http://www.castheads.com/uc_flowfigures.php I would like to get them flow tested, but I don't know if there is anyone around me that does it. It would be nice if I could get close to the flow of AFR Super 23 175s with 56 cc chamber.

The 334 combo: .030 over 305 block (.005 deck), 2 pc seal Renegade 383 cast steel crank, Lunati LHA1 4340 5.7" bushed street/race rods (good for 450 HP @ 7000 rpm), Keith Black KB186 Hyperutectic 10 to1 pistons, TotalSeal TS1 STREET/RACE rings, 8" Streetdamper (external), and .035 thicker SFI 153 tooth flexplate with counter-balance plate added, Crane Powermax 2050 (formerly CompuCam) hydraulic flat-tappet: http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.p ... il&p=23791, 1.6 roller-tip rockers, Weiand 8000 intake, and computer-controlled E4ME carb (modified).
The car is a 1984 TransAm (4000#) with turbo 700R4, either a 2050 or 2200 rpm converter, 4.10 posi, and 28" tires.

Long story short: the rings never sealed, the engine developed what sounded like a lifter tick that I never could find, and eventually shavings from the failed camshaft and lifters went through the engine and chewed up the oil pump, imbedded in all of the bearings and pistons skirts, and put vertical grooves in the cylinder walls - causing the engine to spray oil out of the tailpipe. The crankshaft might take a polish and not have to be reground, and the connecting rods will have to be checked because the bearings fall out of cylinders 2-7 - only 1 and 8 still hold themselves in the rod. DETONATION IS THE CAUSE OF THE ROD BEARINGS LOSING THEIR CRUSH - ESPECIALLY ON THE UPPER (ROD) HALF. Also, all of the valve lock grooves were hammered, even on lifters & lobes that still look fine. I found that the retainers were hitting the valve seals.

I found a rear seal adapter to use a 2pc crank in a 1pc block that uses my 1984 oil pan for $90. I was planning to use a later model 350 1 pc 1996-2000 4 bolt main factory roller cam block with 22cc dished pistons to give a 9.8 to 1 compression ratio, the 334's crank, rods, and heads, and a CompCams XR270HR-10 roller cam: http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam- ... d=158&sb=0 The intake would be a Performer RPM QJet along with a 1904 Quadrajet and the computer control will be GONE.

This would give me the benefit of a stronger factory roller cam block, but after spending hours browsing around this site, the info on cast iron cam cores has me more afraid of roller than flat-tappet. The added expense is a factor also.
Here is a link to this cam in a 356 chevy with S/R heads: http://www.compcams.com/v002/Pages/395/XR270HR-10.aspx

I am not allowed to attach the CamQuest and DD2000 files.

If the heads are too small for a 383, then I will rebuild the 334 correcting all of the problems I found and notch the tops of the bores. Thanks, Mike.
 
Loves302Chevy said:
Are these heads big enough for a 383 Chevy daily driver street car? They came off of my trashed 334 (stroked 305) and I was hoping to re-use the rotating assembly with new pistons in a 350/383 block and also re-use the heads. I knew they were IRON World Products S/R Torquer 58cc for 305 Chevy (170cc intake runners). I was surprised to find out that they had 2.02/1.6 valves and the chambers overhung the bores. While I was cleaning them, I noticed that the choke points were unequal. They were gasket matched and bowl-blended by Racers' Head Service, and now (after 80+ hours of grinding by me) completely ported and smoothed and the choke points are equalized. Choke measures .95 x 1.90, which equals 1.805 sq in. and would allow only 5155 rpm in a 383 (5872 rpm for the 334). Brzezinski Racing has flow numbers for these ported heads: http://www.castheads.com/uc_flowfigures.php I would like to get them flow tested, but I don't know if there is anyone around me that does it. It would be nice if I could get close to the flow of AFR Super 23 175s with 56 cc chamber.

The 334 combo: .030 over 305 block (.005 deck), 2 pc seal Renegade 383 cast steel crank, Lunati LHA1 4340 5.7" bushed street/race rods (good for 450 HP @ 7000 rpm), Keith Black KB186 Hyperutectic 10 to1 pistons, TotalSeal TS1 STREET/RACE rings, 8" Streetdamper (external), and .035 thicker SFI 153 tooth flexplate with counter-balance plate added, Crane Powermax 2050 (formerly CompuCam) hydraulic flat-tappet: http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.p ... il&p=23791, 1.6 roller-tip rockers, Weiand 8000 intake, and computer-controlled E4ME carb (modified).
The car is a 1984 TransAm (4000#) with turbo 700R4, either a 2050 or 2200 rpm converter, 4.10 posi, and 28" tires.

Long story short: the rings never sealed, the engine developed what sounded like a lifter tick that I never could find, and eventually shavings from the failed camshaft and lifters went through the engine and chewed up the oil pump, imbedded in all of the bearings and pistons skirts, and put vertical grooves in the cylinder walls - causing the engine to spray oil out of the tailpipe. The crankshaft might take a polish and not have to be reground, and the connecting rods will have to be checked because the bearings fall out of cylinders 2-7 - only 1 and 8 still hold themselves in the rod. DETONATION IS THE CAUSE OF THE ROD BEARINGS LOSING THEIR CRUSH - ESPECIALLY ON THE UPPER (ROD) HALF. Also, all of the valve lock grooves were hammered, even on lifters & lobes that still look fine. I found that the retainers were hitting the valve seals.

I found a rear seal adapter to use a 2pc crank in a 1pc block that uses my 1984 oil pan for $90. I was planning to use a later model 350 1 pc 1996-2000 4 bolt main factory roller cam block with 22cc dished pistons to give a 9.8 to 1 compression ratio, the 334's crank, rods, and heads, and a CompCams XR270HR-10 roller cam: http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam- ... d=158&sb=0 The intake would be a Performer RPM QJet along with a 1904 Quadrajet and the computer control will be GONE.

This would give me the benefit of a stronger factory roller cam block, but after spending hours browsing around this site, the info on cast iron cam cores has me more afraid of roller than flat-tappet. The added expense is a factor also.
Here is a link to this cam in a 356 chevy with S/R heads: http://www.compcams.com/v002/Pages/395/XR270HR-10.aspx

I am not allowed to attach the CamQuest and DD2000 files.

If the heads are too small for a 383, then I will rebuild the 334 correcting all of the problems I found and notch the tops of the bores. Thanks, Mike.
headmar1.png

headmar.png

vortecsawf.jpg

THOSE are EXCELLENT QUESTIONS!,


crane114142.png

you might find reading thru these links very useful
look at the listed flow numbers of each cylinder head, if your max valve lift is .500 than the numbers reached over .500 lift are meaningless in your particular application, and add the flow numbers at .200 &.300.400 &.500, for both the intake and exhaust flow then divide each by 4 since your averaging 4 flow readings, once thats done you have a semi valid way to compare flow rates, the object is to find the heads with the smallest port size cross sectional area that have the highest flow rate for the lowest cost, naturally theres going to be some compromises made.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... eads1.html

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/t ... w_testing/
lets do a bit of math
just a bit of info on intake gaskets sizes to match port cross sectional areas
small block


big block

porting


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfRogAyDOHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iSXstAYCdU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IljMBoV ... cqomISHZOE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95uNTVvs5Ag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtG0X-pyAyk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg4-vEP9laE
portcsa.jpg

Calculating the valve curtain area
The following equation mathematically defines the available flow area for any given valve diameter and lift value:
Area = valve diameter x 0.98 x 3.14 x valve lift
Where 3.14 = pi (π)
For a typical 2.02-inch intake valve at .500-inch lift, it calculates as follows:
Area = 2.02 x 0.98 x 3.14 x 0.500 = 3.107 square inches
SO lets do a bit of math
a cylinder head with a 2.02' intake valve and a cam with a .450 lift at the valve with a 1.5:1 rocker will in theory produce a valve curtain area of 2.79 sq inches, swapping to a 1.6:1 ratio increases the lift to .480 lift 2.98 sq inches, increasing the available port flow potential at least in theory by about 6%, but keep in mind the port can only flow at full valve lift for the limited time the valve remains at full lift and if the narrowest section of the port cross sectional areas less that the valve curtain area that not the valve restricts flow
THUS the most you can reasonably expect is a 6% flow increase , from the rocker ratio upgrade but reality and the fact that the valve is opening and closing perhaps 57 times a second at peak rpms, and the port may be more restrictive that the valve curtain area, on many small block combos suggests the results will be lower

RELATED INFO

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=148&p=34936&hilit=calculate+port+stall#p34936

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5537&p=16750#p16750


USE THE CALCULATORS

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html
http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php
http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php

porting+valve_area.jpg

COMMON SBC INTAKE PORTS
felpro # 1204=Port Size: 1.23" x 1.99"=2.448 sq inches

felpro # 1205=Port Size: 1.28" x 2.09"=2.67 sq inches

felpro # 1206=Port Size: 1.34" x 2.21"=2.96 sq inches

felpro # 1207=Port Size: 1.38" x 2.28"=3.146 sq inches

felpro # 1209=Port Size: 1.38" x 2.38"=3.28 sq inches

felpro # 1255 VORTEC=Port Size: 1.08" x 2.16"-2.33 sq inches

felpro # 1263=Port Size: 1.31" x 2.02"=2.65 sq inches

felpro # 1266=Port Size: 1.34" x 2.21"=2.96 sq inches

felpro # 1284 LT1=Port Size: 1.25 x 2.04''=2.55 sq inches

felpro # 1289 FASTBURN=Port Size: 1.30" x 2.31" 3.00 sq inches


the valve curtain area, cam duration and lift controlling that curtain area,or port cross sectional area will pose a restriction to air flow at some point,in the engines rpm band, but you can extend the effective air flow duration and efficiency with carefully timed exhaust scavenging, that helps draw in the intake runner inertia load of air/fuel,charge much more effectively if the peak negative pressure wave is correctly timed
USE THE CALCULATORS
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html
http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php
as youll see the 1.8 cross sectional area choke point limits effective flow to about 5200rpm,while this will certainly allow you to make decent mid range torque it will restrict upper rpm peak power.
so few people even think to look into researching , to find out IF the parts match the application,Ive used that crane cam #114142 in my personal 383 corvette engine , I used that crane cam ,in an early version of my 383 and during testing it.
matched with 1.6:1 ERSON ROLLER ROCKERS and RHOADES LIFTERS,and hooker long tube headers with an 18" collectors, with open, cut-outs when racing, and a carefully ported TPI intake and using trick flow heads, it allowed the car to run 13.0 ets and 101 mph which in a 3700 lb corvette with a 270 lb old fat guy driving is darn good., it made very good power in the 3000rpm-5200rpm band, and in my corvette the 700r4 trans shifted at 5500rpm, making it nearly ideal.
The only issue i had was the first time I tried it I had a stock stall converter and it caused the car to idle a bit too high ( at about 1000rpm) so it JUMPED when you put it into gear,in fact its one of the better flat tappet hydraulic cam choices if you have a manual transmission and a 3.07:1-or-3.54:1 rear gear in a heavier car with a 383 and at least 9.5:1 compression as it does as good job of maximizing air flow in that power band, if your limited by not using a hydraulic roller cam.
once I installed a 3200rpm stall converter (a 2600 rpm stall would have been a better match) the car ran 12.87, with no other changes .
as a general rule of thumb,that cam with 1.6:1 rockers in a 383 with all other parts well matched, with a cam like that one listed , should in theory allow near 400-to-430hp, that is highly unlikely but in theory its potentially something you could achieve, in reality your much more likely to find a port that flows 235 cfm will limit power to the mid 350 hp range
HORSE POWER FROM SPEED/E.T.
http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/et_calculator.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/horsepower-et- ... ulator.php
so a 4000lb corvette running those times had about 340 rear wheel HP, or about 420 flywheel hp

114142pow.png


PLAY WITH THESE
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpengine/eng ... w_rate.php

http://www.asia.donaldson.com/en/exhaus ... 053747.pdf

http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator3.php

http://www.gregraven.org/hotwater/calcu ... ow-hp.html

related links that you should read
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=333

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=8460

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=2630

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=322

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=148

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1231&p=2612&hilit=airflow+horse+power#p2612

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8485&p=39278&hilit=should+obvious#p39278

when I swapped to an extensively ported holley stealth ram, 36 lb injectors and a crane 119661 roller cam I LOST a good deal of the LOW RPM TORQUE the flat tappet 114142 cam and extensively ported TPI intake produced, but picked up about 1200rpm in the power band and noticeably more power above 4500rpm
link to my 383

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=430

NOW regarding the total seal rings and compression

Ive had mixed results with those rings in several engines and while they work reasonably well in most cases I think they are more of a 'gimmick' than a sure fire enhancement to most engine builds as Ive rarely if ever had issues with properly fitted and gaped standard rings, adding several magnets and shrapnel screens and inspecting your oil filter after each oil change tends to allow you to find and hopefully locate and correct any potential problem, that shows metallic crud in your oil before the damage becomes MORE expensive to correct, if you catch the problem early rather than after it requires far more extensive repairs.!
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=28636&hilit=magnets+screens#p28636

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=22845&hilit=magnets+screens#p22845

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1479&p=13362&hilit=magnets+screens#p13362

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3834&p=10199&hilit=magnets+screens#p10199

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187&p=5890&hilit=magnets+screens#p5890

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=117&p=147&hilit=magnets+screens#p147

related links that might help

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509&p=39785&hilit=rings+hone#p39785

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2919&p=7625&hilit=rings+hone#p7625

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4630&p=39780&hilit=rings+hone#p39780

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3897&p=26602&hilit=rings+hone#p26602

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=976&p=22976&hilit=rings+hone#p22976

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=509&p=11324&hilit=rings+hone#p11324

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125&p=10972&hilit=rings+hone#p10972

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2795&p=8966&hilit=rings+hone#p8966

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2837&p=7989&hilit=rings+hone#p7989
 
Last edited:
Total Seal Gapless rings require a Correct Honed cylinder to seal correct.
Must adhere to the RA roughness average recommended with the ring sets.
Most machinists ignore the advice.
What works for honing standard piston rings gives poor results with TSS Or TS1 Rings.
I have used TSS & TS1 ring sets & really like them.
There is a slight power edge using them. But only if machine work is right on & engine break in done correct. Not the best choice for most guys without experience using.
Even after 10,000 miles of pounding on Pontiac 455's I seen only 2% Leakdown.

Yes loose that EM4C Q-jet. Its Junk.
Best Q-jets to use are the ultra rare Pontiac SD-455 , 1970 Ram Air 4.
Buick Stage 1 455. The Poncho carbs I own.
Worth alot today. $4-5 k each.

A Holley 4-bbl a good choice for easy & inexpensive tuning.
No computer tuning issues with any cam profile chosen.
 
Thanks for the great answers guys. I have read thru ALL the links. I already spent too much money 17 years ago on the 334 because of emissions requirements. Connecticut was contemplating adopting California standards at the time. Getting a modified engine to work with the CCC system was a BIG challenge. There was very little information on internet, magazines, and forums such as this back then. Also there weren't nearly as many choices in parts. It took a lot of work, and I did it - almost. The T/A performed the way a car should have from the factory (and it passed emissions) but engine problems killed it after only 19,000 miles when I parked it 15 years ago.

After recently taking the engine apart and discovering all the problems, my first plan was to rebuild the 334 as cheaply as possible. But with the availability of parts we now have, I thought it might be cheaper to build a 383, re-using everything except the block and pistons. By the time I get done paying for reconditioning the parts I already have, a new rotating assembly might be cost-effective. But then I'm building a whole new engine. That is IF the heads will be good for a 383. Although they MIGHT work on a 383, they are way better suited to the 334 for the RPM range I wish to have. Also, the headers are SLP 1 5/8", basically a shorty or tubular exhaust manifold design, and could also become a restriction to the 383. The rest of the exhaust is 2.5" pipe after the headers Y'd together to the cat converter, and then a single 3" pipe back to the SLP muffler with 2.5" outlets. I plan on fabricating a fake cat converter. Inside an oval converter case will be a 4" pipe with a spiral insert. The pipe will have holes drilled on the sides with stainless steel scrubber pads packed around it. This should hopefully eliminate any drone and make the car quieter without restricting flow.

I think my best choice is to take everything to a quality auto machine shop and see if the block will clean up at .040 over. If so, then new pistons with conventional rings. I should be able to make a .010 larger piston and ring package weigh the same as what I had - preserving the previous balancing job. For the heads: new valves, new bronze guide liners, valve job to clean up the valve seats, and new spring retainers that are cut to be shorter on the bottom side for increased retainer to seal clearance. I have a new Crane 114142 cam already on the shelf. I usually run the cam manufacturer's lifters, but I think I would rather use Delphi tappets with their chilled-iron faces, given the reduced zinc & phosphorous in today's oil. I also plan to have the lifter bores grooved and ordering a case of Howard's ZMAX additive and adding a 1/2 bottle at each oil change. I also used a GM windage tray in the 334. Do you think I still should use it? Your comments please.

If the block can't clean at .040, then maybe I will go with a new 305 block and re-use my old pistons with new conventional rings. I found a SB Chevy 305 Sprint Car BARE Block, Fully Machined: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philadelphia-Ra ... 6#shpCntId. In either case. I will have to do a little bore-notching, because the combustion chamber overhangs the bore where the larger valves were unshrouded.

KB Hyper pistons have special clearance requirements and like you pointed out, the Total Seal rings require non-standard honing procedures - NEITHER OF WHICH WAS DONE BY THE PREVIOUS MACHINE SHOP, I truly believe.

By the way, that is an NEW Edelbrock 1904 Performer RPM series carb I plan to use. For 1980-89 305-454 Chevy/GMC trucks with an electric choke. Compatible with EGR. Not for computer-controlled vehicles. For light-duty pick-ups, Suburbans and vans (up to 1-ton). Main Jet: .073; Metering Rods: Primary-50M, Secondary-DR.
795 cfm with electric choke #1904
On the 334, I tried every size of Carter & Edelbrock AFB, but never a Holley. The Quadrajet always worked the best. Without the computer control this time, I bet it will work GREAT. If not, then I will try a Holley.

Grumpy, I love your use of turnbuckles and screw eyes on your Corvette. I told you I looked at the links! Thanks again, Mike.
 
I love Q-jets too Mike.
Problem is Calibration parts are getting very hard to come by for them.
Have enough for my own cars to tune in the 400- 600 HP Level normally aspirated.

You would be $ ahead I think starting over.
Build a 355, 377, 383, 406.

Ebay your 170 ported heads.
Buy 180-210's.

The bore in a 305 restricts potential airflow for high Hp.

LOOK TO USE ONLY ISKENDERIAN OR CROWER LIFTERS.
DEFINATE MADE IN THE USA.
OR CRANE. LUNATI OK TOO
ALL OTHERS MADE IN CHUNA.
 
Crower offers special EDM Drilled lifter face oiling.
Micro polished lifter faces.
I have a new set of thier Solids equipped as said.
Nice.
 
I appreciate your advice. My basement is filled with shelves of parts for Gen1 SBC and they are getting more obsolete by the minute. Man, have things changed in the last 15 years. I have a good assortment of QJet parts, as well as those same Crower SOLID EDM lifters and a Camsaver SOLID set as well. They will not work with a hydraulic cam. That's why I will have the lifter bores grooved. I have the Crane cam & lifter kit, so I guess I will use their matching lifters. Depending what the machine shop says, I am going to use the stuff I already have. It's bought and paid for, and if I don't use it, then I collected it for nothing more than being in my way and collecting dust. I've always been a dinosaur anyway. Building another engine makes me put even more parts on the shelf. I was totally satisfied with the 334 combo, so this time around, without the problems, I should be happy.
Does anyone have any opinions on Howards ZPM camshaft break-in lube? If they still have it, Competition Products has it for $6.00/bottle (case of 24). I'm not sure if I can still get ZDDPlus. Mike.
 
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