Oil & Filters

[Loves302Chevy]

I have read through the threads: "yes the oil filter you sellect does make a differance" and "
break-in oil quality tested" and "oil system mods that help". I live in Connecticut and Auto Zone and Advance Auto offer oil & filter deals. Currently Auto Zone has 5 quarts of Mobil 1 Synthetic or Extended Performance Synthetic & a Mobil 1 oil filter for $33.99. Also Pennzoil Platinum full synthetic 5 qts (or upgrade to Pennzoil Ultra for $2.00 more) & an STP oil filter (or upgrade to Bosch oil filter for $2.00 more) for $32.99. Also Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage or Durablend 5 qts with same upgrade deal for $24.99.
I did not see any info in your thread on the oil filters they offer . Also, do you have an opinion on the Mobil 1 Extended Performance Synthetic or the Pennzoils & Valvolines I mentioned? I am going to use the WIX oil filter, but will any of the offered filters come acceptably close to the WIX? Which package would you purchase?

I previously posted:
The cam lobes & lifters are already coated with CraneCams Moly assembly lube. So I will use 10W30 Valvoline Conventional Racing Oil with a bottle of the older stock (better) EOS and a quart of Marvel Mystery oil for break-in. After 3-4 hrs run time - 10W30 Valvoline Conventional Racing Oil. And after 1000 miles I will switch to full synthetic Mobil 1. Thanks again, Mike.
I have done a bunch of the oil system mods and I have been blocking oil filter bypass valve for decades. And I'm getting that $37 Neodymium Ring Magnet as soon as it is available.

 

[grumpyvette]

theres several good brands of very acceptable oil filters, Im sure someone will post )"ANYTHING BUT A FRAM" but its not that simple ,Id suggest the first thing you want to doo is use a good quality oil of a viscosity that allows your engine to maintain 15psi minimum at idle when the oils up to operating temp, and yes theres a big difference in oil quality.
Samarium Cobalt MAGNETS HELP
http://www.magnet4sale.com/smco-disk-magnet-dia-1x1-4-samarium-cobalt-magnets-608-f-temperature/

look up your fluid capacity
http://www.amsoil.com/lookup/auto-and-light-truck/?zo=531421&page=/products/application_guide.aspx

proper magnets trap metallic debris
SmCo Samarium Cobalt Disc Magnetshttp://www.magnet4less.com/

High Temp Samarium SmCo Cobalt Magnet Discs
572°F Maximum Operating Temperature
READ
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/which-oil-what-viscosity.1334/
KEEPING THE OIL TEMP IN THE 180F-230F range is going to be VERY HELPFUL IN INCREASING DURABILITY , and oil should generally be kept a bit below 215F the vast majority of the time but its MANDATORY it occasionally gets up to or slightly over 215F to burn off moisture to prevent acids forming in the oil

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-48374

BOSCH, K&N,MAHLE,PUROLATOR, MOBILE-ONE,WIX, are all decent choices, but be aware that physically LONGER filters and filters with high pleat counts tend to have more filter medium surface area and paper medium is generally not as effective as the synthetic mat filter mediums, but the main issue is most guys don,t replace the oil and oil filters regularly.
MAGNETS help a good deal, buy and use an oil filter cutting tool, its going to be helpful.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900510/overview/

 

[Loves302Chevy]

So I'm reading through the links you sent and now I'm more confused than ever. Not because I can't understand the test results, but because there is SOOOOOO much information. You wrote, "...many more modern oil formulations lack the correct additives for flat tappet lifters, so be very sure you check to see what oil your using and if its designed for flat tappet lifter applications." Call me old school, but I run flat-tappet camshafts in all my SB Chevy engines. I like the simplicity. While the results for the RACING oils look great on paper, a lot of them have notes that say, "this oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use."

SHOP CAREFULLY , WHEN YOU GO TO BUY AN OIL PAN<AND ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WILL FIT YOUR CAR CORRECTLY AND ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS ON MATCHING COMPONENTS OR PARTS THAT WON,T FIT

MILODON,
http://www.milodon.com/

CHAMP
http://www.champpans.com/products/c/oil-pans/

CANTON,
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/category/1501/Chevy-SS--Road-Race-Oil-Pans/1.html

MOROSO
http://www.moroso.com/

AVIAID
http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbc.html

STEFS
http://www.stefs.com/products/oilpans/circletrackwetsump.htm

HAMBURGERPERFORMANCE
http://www.hamburgersperformance.com/

KEVKO
https://kevko.myshopify.com/

I will be doing the break-in on the 334 hopefully soon. It will be in my daily driver 84 TransAm (no Winters). Also NO CATALYTIC CONVERTER. I love that your oil testing was verified by 4 other sources. Do you think you could put together a SHORT list of your recommendations for readily available (and somewhat reasonably priced) STREET oils for flat-tappet engines? One list for break-in and one for daily driving. I plan on using synthetic after the engine is broken in. I'll start in the 10W30 range and go from there.

I have 30 4 oz bottles of Howards Cams Max Z.P.M. Camshaft Break-In Lube. I bought it when I could not get ZDDP Plus anymore.
"The most important product for proper flat tappet camshaft break-in available. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet camshafts. Virtually eliminates cam and lifter wear at initial break-in. Replaces the Zinc-Phosphates (ZDDP) removed from today's oils. High levels of Zinc-Phosphates (60,000 ppm Zinc, 42,000 ppm Phosphates), plus the addition of moly for extra protection. Compatible with all petroleum base and synthetic oils. Just add one 4 ounce bottle for up to 6 quarts of oil."

In the links I read, "An oil’s ability to protect against wear, is determined by its base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, NOT just by how much zinc is present. Using zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology. The idea that you need a high level of zinc for a high level of wear protection, is simply an old MYTH that has been BUSTED. Many of today’s anti-wear components (they are often proprietary in nature, and are not specifically tested for, in a basic Lab Test) are not only equal to zinc, but they are BETTER than zinc."

Also, "some of these organizations, such as the API and ILSAC, have reduced friction modifier amounts in order to extend the life of catalytic converters and reduce pollution. These will increase wear but will be still within the "acceptable wear" range. Because of the increased wear and expense of licensing these oils some companies will not certify for API & ILSAC in order to achieve a higher level of performance. People with older engines that do not have roller cams find these oils especially attractive to maintain a reduced level of engine wear. AMSOIL only has 5 motor oils certified for the API & ILSAC for this reason (the four XL-7500 Branded motor oils and the semi-synthetic 15W-40 PCO). The rest of the nearly 30 synthetic motor oils are not certified in order to maintain the higher levels of friction modifier to maintain the enhanced level of performance necessary for their targeted market. In other words, the less expensive motor oils made by AMSOIL are API & ILSAC certified while the high end more expensive performance motor oils are not. One reason companies like AMSOIL and Mobil are at odds with the reduced friction modifier standards is they don't take into consideration the reduced volatility of PAO based motor oils which leads to much less pollution and thereby less problems for the catalytic converter. Even with the full wear preventing additives these oils do not produce the pollution of petroleum motor oils. For this reason AMSOIL has left the friction modifier levels high and skips certification for these higher performing motor oils."

And you wrote, "engines are best served by using oils that have excellent wear protection capability (no matter how much zinc is in them) during Break-In. If folks use these superior oils, and avoid traditional high zinc, low wear protection capability Break-In oils and avoid aftermarket zinc additives which actually REDUCE an oil’s wear protection capability, worries about flat tappet Break-In procedures could become a thing of the past.
The “Wear Protection” test data here DIRECTLY APPLIES to flat tappet lobe/lifter interfaces (no matter how wicked the engine), distributor gear/cam gear interfaces, mechanical fuel pump pushrod tip/cam eccentric interfaces, and all highly loaded engine interfaces." GOD, I really want to believe this.

The older test of Valvoline 10W40 Durablend SL/CF was quite a surprise. Is there something comparable to that now?
The AMSOIL Z-ROD Oil (below) sounds like what I might be looking for - or is this now also outdated technology?



Z-ROD® 10W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Modern Technology For Classic Cars
AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage.

I can't stand "following the bouncing ball" much longer. Just when you think you've got it all figured out......

THIS STUFF WORKS

very good

very very good

yes the additives in the the quart of MMO you can add to your crank case oil, do a good job of breaking up and holding in suspension oil sludge and transporting it to the oil filter

Please HELP! Mike.

 

[grumpyvette]

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/break-in-oil-quality-tested.11145/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/breaking-in-a-new-engine-combo.799/#post-1161

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-break-in-procedure.130/#post-728

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

Id also suggest you install a long higher capacity oil filter if you have the clearance to do so, as both the extra oil capacity and the fact that the larger oil filter with its greater surface area constantly exposed to outside air flow, (especially if you have an oil filter finned cooler) can in many cases reduce oil temps 5 degrees or more

I don,t know where they sell these, finned aluminum filter covers now ,a few years back these were $20 each and significantly longer that this picture shows,
in fact they were the length of the long oil filter ,and believe it or not the combo of the longer oil filter and finned cover dropped my oil temps an additional 5 deg F , EASY TO PROVE by simply removing and replacing the slip on finned cover several times after keeping detailed records while cruising the interstate at a steady 70 mph (not a big difference but for $20 well worth it!
WHEN assembling your engine it is almost mandatory that you take the time and effort too, verify clearances,and if you want things to last a while you must coat bearings lifters and cam lobes with moly lube

you must coat the valve train with MMO mixed 50%/50%with with moly lube

you really should install a quality , prefilled,oil filter and install a few magnets,
SmCo Samarium Cobalt Disc Magnets
http://www.magnet4less.com/

High Temp Samarium SmCo Cobalt Magnet Discs
572°F Maximum Operating Temperatu
or
http://www.magnet4sale.com/samarium-cobalt-discs/





http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-48793


checking the clearances and valve train geometry and valve spring load rates will in most cases insure the valve train durability to a great extent, in most cam failures I see clearances were NOT verified or the MOLY cam grease was not used on the lifter bases and cam lobes
read thru the links above


THEN BUY VALVOLINE RACING OIL, OR THAT AMSOIL< OR CASTOR OIL AND ADD THESE , THEN BREAK IN THE CAM



I would strongly suggest you never consider use of fuel line and AN type fitting's for use as transmission fluid, or oil cooler transfer lines even if a transmission , fluid or oil cooler cooler is used,
if you bring the current fittings that fit the transmission to a local hydraulic supply shop along with the exact length of the lines you need and explain what your trying to do , they can fabricate the correct, high pressure and high heat tolerant, transmission fluid, or oil cooler lines to your exact specifications for VERY REASONABLE COST, thus preventing what might otherwise become a potential weak link.
common rubber fuel line will NEVER hold up under the heat and pressure of a transmission fluid transfer line ,long term.
most rubber fuel line , even FUEL INJECTION LINE is rated to work at UNDER 200 psi and UNDER 250 F, your typical transmission fluid will occasionally exceed 250F and commonly run in the 160F-210F temp range even with a trans fluid cooler
http://www.novaflex.com/productcart/pc/features_pdf/mjarine Fuel Hose2.pdf

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6113/Barricade_Training_Final.pdf

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/flex-fuel-lines.4381/#post-14833

hydraulic line is usually rated OVER 2500 psi and up to 300F temps

Id point out that you'll almost certainly want to use an oil cooler that's as large as you have room to effectively use and having a powered fan to increase air flow and heat transfer efficiency will help, bu remember the line size between the engine cooler and back to the engine will generally slightly restrict flow so, I,d advise at least a AN#8 or 1/2" internal cross sectional, size oil or hydraulic lines designed to handle 300F temps and pressure levels with a significant safety margin above what the engine produces, and having large remote mounted oil filter(s) won,t hurt either.
Yes they make dual transmission fluid and oil coolers so you might want to consider that option if you have an automatic transmission and Id sure suggest a fluid temp gauge that accurately measures transmission fluid and a separated gauge for oil temperatures.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-12318
IM currently using this transmission fluid cooler on my 1985 corvette but have used others in the past, and a dual cooler like this certainly has some advantages , if you need both oil and transmission fluid cooling.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-13311

Adding a high quality transmission and oil cooler with low flow restriction 1/2" MINIMUM ID lines can markedly increase engine longevity and durability
don,t forget that oil flow rates, and reducing the transmission fluid temp in the lower radiator on cars equipped with an automatic transmission, have a big effect on engine cooling so adding a trans or oil cooler helps engine durability
Loves302Chevy posted these diagrams that will be helpful

most hydraulic supply shops will fabricate lines to your exact length and use the correct fittings and hose types to allow over 1000psi and 300F fluid temps, if you do a bit of reserch youll find a couple hydraulic supply shops locally

http://www.universalhoseandfittings.com/product_p/ha08-mnpt-mnpt-1.htm

a few links may help here
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-filters-related-info.2080/#post-54352

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-48374

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-trans-fluid.10749/#post-46958

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/not-getting-oil-to-rockers.4537/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?forums/cams-heads-and-valve-trains.52/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...flow-rates-and-heat-transfer.9880/#post-37712

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-oiler-cooling.8463/#post-29691
RELATED

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/1_2_Custom_Hydraulic_Hoses_s/335.htm

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Hydraulic_Hose_s/84.htm

http://www.discounthydraulichose.co....htm?Click=2&gclid=COWnvIjq9ckCFVQ2aQoddYEF_g

http://www.parker.com/literature/Hose Products Division/Catalog 4400 PDF Files/Master_Table_of_Contents.pdf

 

[87vette81big]

Everyone has their own opinion.
RACING PROVES ALL TO ME.
These Oil Tests and filter tests are not done balls out at 7,000-9,000 Rpms at 140-200 mph in 4th gear 1:1 high.
100- 150 Psi Hot Oil Pressure.

Read through I have for 8 hours straight.

Oil filters are really application dependent.
ARE YOU DRIVING SLOW LIKE 99 Year old Grandma on the Sunday drive ?

Or are You Balls out RACING FAST OR FASTER THAN H- CAR WARBIRDS X 3 MOPAR Has BUILT TO BLOW YOUR DOORS OFF WITH ?

I KNOW WHAT I AM USING.
NOT 540's Oil ADVICE.
HE HAS NEVER RACED.

 

[chromebumpers]

Everyone downs Fram filters, so why does one of the world's most renowned premium automakers faithfully use the Orange filters on their high-revving, ultra tight clearance engines?

 

[Grumpy]

like a great many other things being built, by large corporations, theres a common perception based on decades of people using,the least expensive product that brand name produces (which probably accounts for the vast percentage of sales volume) that does not take into account the old adage,
that you tend to get what you pay for.
and an almost total ignorance in the general public that.
theres several levels of PRICE and QUALITY being sold under the one blanket brand name.
FRAM DOES SELL A BETTER QUALITY OIL FILTER LINE
http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter.aspx
THAT DOES NOT mean they are the best available but they are certainly a noticeable step up in quality from the low price line
Id especially change the oil, and filter, and slap a big magnet on the base of the oil filter

clip on a decent magnet to the base of a long oil filter helps it trap metalic trash more effectively, and while $29 may sound high its good extra insurance that potentially reduces the chances of metalic debis from getting to the bearings and valve train.
consider the cost of bearing replacement?

http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/

change the oil, and filter, and slap a big magnet on the base of the oil filter
http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/

Id also suggest anyone serious about engine maintenance buy a oil filter cutter to inspect the filter medium after oil changes for indications of bearing failure/wear issues
I see them on amazon prime for under $40 part number 66490

Proform Parts 66490 Proform Oil Filter Cutters | Summit Racing​

Free Shipping - Proform Oil Filter Cutters with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Filter Cutters at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com



and a couple high heat tolerant magnets,
that of course does nearly nothing, for you,
if you insist on purchasing their low price line of cheap oil .
vs selecting the more expensive and significantly better made,
but more costly product line
obviously buying an oil filter can opener tool, and doing some close personal inspection of what your dealing with won,t hurt.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900510/overview/
http://www.homedepot.com/s/paint+filter?NCNI-5
almost any auto paint store and most hardware stores sell these disposable throw away paint strainer filters , that cost about 20-35 cents each, or a bit less in bulk packs, honestly I don,t see why most guys don,t invest the dollar it takes for a magnet and a couple filters

heres a helpful diagnostic tool,(the oil filter cutter pictured below) and yes I still cut open the oil filters and inspect the filter element on my cars oil filter [/color]
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...king-how-other-people-might.11959/#post-56957

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66490/overview/

Id also point out that manufacturer's PAY famous racers for endorsements
Id also point out that an engine used in racing will generally get the oil changed rather frequently while a street driven car may go 10-20 times more miles between oil changes


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ilter-you-sellect-does-make-a-differance.117/

a bit of research shows you some facts to base opinion on and actual testing and inspection comparing a product to its likely competition would be rather useful, dealing in facts sure beats guessing

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21883344-Tech-Review-The-Long-Waited-FRAM-OIL-FILTER-REVIEW

WATCH THIS LINK FIRST

 

[Grumpy]

 

[Grumpy]

\

 

[chromebumpers]

It's just common sense that racing anything is hard and sometimes even destructive to a filter and for that reason I can see using the heavy duty filters.
I use the Tough Guard or High mileage Fram filters, and I do cut open the filters out of curiosity upon oil changes and for my GM collector cars I use AC Delco Blue filters. I never found any filter failures yet and the filtrate looks like it's performing as intended. Oh, I want to add that I frequently change filters between scheduled changes. I'll remove the old filter, fill up a new filter and install (about ever 1500 miles for filters, 4500 for Synthetic oil and filter changes).

 

[Grumpy]

 

[dawsonc]

Well, that's one reason why I change the oil myself.

 

[Grumpy]

as a general rule theres a factory suggested oil filter, thats about the minimum size and cost that gets the job done if changed regularly,
and if you do some research, theres usually about 2-3 longer versions that will directly interchange.
now obviously theres differences in quality between brands and materials used in those brands,
but a longer filter if used WHERE THERES THE REQUIRED CLEARANCE THAT ALLOWS ITS USE.
will generally have considerably more filtration area.
example on my 2022 GMC Denali 4x4
the suggested oil filters a PF63F
theres a longer version, the wix 51791
and even a marginally longer PF932

heres a few links to allow you to locate other than the recommended oil filter size

https://www.carparts.com/purolator/air-filter?--&gad_source=5&gclid=CjwKCAjws9ipBhB1EiwAccEi1IdDP4snfnjUMOQ6HFVbc2qFy24Zw4_8-37Qi0MYZ6eGBtI34c6obxoCUs0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Pickup truck oil hub | Mobil™

See how your Mobil™ lubricants can meet the needs of your truck’s hardworking engine.

www.mobil.com

https://www.carparts.com/purolator/air-filter?--&gad_source=5&gclid=CjwKCAjws9ipBhB1EiwAccEi1IdDP4snfnjUMOQ6HFVbc2qFy24Zw4_8-37Qi0MYZ6eGBtI34c6obxoCUs0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

WIX Filters - Products Catalog Home

www.wixfilters.com

Filter Finder

Baldwin's Filter Finder allows you to search for a cross-reference to a competitor part number or to look up the proper filter by application.

www.baldwinfilters.com

Crossfilters - The best filters for your machine at the best cost.

We distribute ,Fleetguard, Cummins, Mann-Filter, Purolator, WIX, Hengst, HIFI, Donaldson and Sure Filter.

crossfilters.com

Cross reference list | SF-Filter

Easily search by reference, model, brand or machine. Find the right filter for mobile or industrial machinery in our online cross reference list

www.sf-filter.com

 

[Indycars]

Wix Filter website makes this pretty easy to find the longest filter that fits your oil filter pad.

Start by finding out what thread your filter has, you can look it up using the link below..Put in your filter number and search, then click on the filter number in the blue text. This will bring up a new browser window with the filter specs, 2nd graphic below.

Catalogs

www.wixfilters.com

You will notice that the thread for my filter 51060 is 13/16-16



Using the link below, you will first have to select these two fields before the table will fill in.



Click on your thread size, in my case that's 13/16-16.

Now click the column header to sort all the filters by Gasket ID. Find your filter and all those that will fit your vehicle.

Catalogs

www.wixfilters.com

.

 

[Grumpy]

THANK YOU RICK!

 

[Indycars]

No Problem, you are welcome !