Oil Pan gasket - still small leak

[TigerVette]

Grumpy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/201403174594?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

FelPro OS34510T Oil Pan Gasket - 1 Piece Rubber Small Block Chevy 1975-1985

Still struggling on getting the perfect seal on my C4 sbc - new motor, new oil pan and using a fel-pro 1-piece gasket similar to the one below.

The slight leak occurs on the front seal and the very bottom (middle) which happens to be the further point from the holding torque of the bolts. Not sure what I'm encountering. Gasket thickness issue?
READ THIS ALSO
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=206&p=390#p390

May be I'm torquing too hard and the gasket is being pulled inward a hair? The bolts are installed firm but I didn't feel like I went overboard with it. Everything has gone together fairly smooth and appeared like a strong seal. Hard to tell now. But I have the balancer and some accessories apart and can feel/see the slight leak again. Could I just back the front bolts out a bit, see if the gasket comes forward any?

Thought? Suggestions?

 

[grumpyvette]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=206&p=390&hilit=+seal+thick+pan#p390
theres two common gasket thickness measurements,Put a straight edge across the front of the oil pan and measure down to the lowest part of where the seal rests directly centered under the crank,the distance from the strait edge to the lower front oil pan is the measurement you need,. It's the oil pan that determines thick or thin seal, not the timing cover.
youll occasionally find uses for a high temp rated silicone sealant
like ultra-copper that has about twice the temp tolerance of the common black RTV

BTW I have on several occasions seen guys who complain about various oil leaks on valve covers and rear seals ETC.
Used, engine parts will have oil embedded deeply into the micro surfaces.
almost all replacement parts will have a wax or grease preservative coating to prevent corrosion during shipping!
IF YOU simply wipe off oil soaked surfaces with a paper towel, who then smear on the sealant of there choice and proceed to install gaskets,
YOU WILL OCCASIONALLY HAVE LEAKS!
and then they wonder or maybe be in shock when you find the seeping oil leak has returned in a few weeks time!
metal surfaces may look smooth as glass but under a microscope they look like the surface of the moon , with lots of jagged surface cracks, so you really need to wash out the micro lubricants trapped in those cracks with a thin fast evaporating grease solvent and a lint free rag , followed by a second repeat of the process and in many cases a few minutes with a heat gun to dry and evaporate the solvent in the micro cracks ,
STOP AND READ THE SEALANT PACKAGE DIRECTIONS!
you'll generally find some rather amazing , bits of info such as temperature requirements, temperature limitations, what solvents work best to remove the cement or sealant, only after reading the directions, do you then smear the gasket sealant on both mating surfaces before bonding the two gasket & metal surfaces.(and in many cases you use a brush as dirt or oil on fingers prevents a good seal!)
2-1/4" = thin seal
2-3/8" = thick seal

On oil pans I prefer studs, and an oil pan back plate

you might want to Use with P/N 12553058 RH and P/N 12553059 LH oil pan reinforcement plates to distribute the bolt stress on the oil pan rail for 1985 and earlier oil pans P/N 14088501 (LH) and P/N 14088502 (RH).1986 and newer

sources for oil leaks
Oil filter not tight
Oil drain plug seal bad
Oil cooler fitting loose
Faulty oil pressure switch
leaking valve cover gaskets
Oil pan gasket bad, or installed incorrectly
Rear seal failure, or installed incorrectly
Front seal bad,worn, or installed incorrectly
loose dip stick or installed incorrectly
rear cam freeze plug loose or installed incorrectly
rear oil passages plugs loose or installed incorrectly

youll want to leave the timing cover alignment studs sticking out of the block about 5/16"



don,t forget that theres a front crank seal
SHOP CAREFULLY , WHEN YOU GO TO BUY AN OIL PAN for your engine or transmission, <AND ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WILL FIT YOUR CAR CORRECTLY AND ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS ON MATCHING COMPONENTS OR PARTS THAT WON,T FIT

MILODON,
http://www.milodon.com/

CHAMP
http://www.champpans.com/products/c/oil-pans/

CANTON,
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/category/1501/Chevy-SS--Road-Race-Oil-Pans/1.html

MOROSO
http://www.moroso.com/

AVIAID
http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbc.html

STEFS
http://www.stefs.com/products/oilpans/circletrackwetsump.htm

HAMBURGERPERFORMANCE
http://www.hamburgersperformance.com/

KEVKO
https://kevko.myshopify.com/

IF you've wondered why I suggest buying and using a well designed BAFFLED oil pan with 7-8 quart capacity its to prevent the oil from uncovering the oil pump pick-up under performance use.
without control baffles oil sloshes away from the oil pump pick-up

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1718&p=11956&hilit=front+seal#p11956

http://www.federalmogul.com/en/Aftermar ... rMainSeal/

and rear crank seal that have zero to do with the oil pan gasket and those can also leak oil

don,t forget a very thin line of sealant under the main cap/block bearing surface or you may have a very slow oil drip from what you think is the rear main seal but its really seeping under the main cap
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=473

reading thru this thread may help,
theres TWO different front seal thicknesses, if you, select and install the wrong one
or install it incorrectly it leaks
and a bolt thats required to , be threaded into the block to seal oil into the crank case

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1718&p=4257&hilit=+rear+seal#p4257

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2725&p=7076&hilit=rear+seal#p7076


rear seals come in, rubber, silicon rubber,.Fluoroelastomer, and Viton they all work if properly installed but VITOR usually lasts the longest

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-BS118291/.. rubber

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-2909/... Fluoroelastomer,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-2900/... Silicone

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-2918/..viton


you might want to Use with P/N 12553058 RH and P/N 12553059 LH oil pan reinforcement plates to distribute the bolt stress on the oil pan rail for 1985 and earlier oil pansP/N 14088501 (LH) and P/N 14088502 (RH).1986 and newer

 

[TigerVette]

Great thread, plenty of advise to get me straightened out.

May be another week or two until I get it ironed out, but I will post an update.

Thank you!

 

[TigerVette]

Well, the pan has been reinstalled. Went smooth and visually there's a strong bite on the front seal.

The Fel-Pro PN1881 (1980-85 thick front seal RH dipstick) is a much better fit, compared to the universal Fel-Pro I had from the store. Both side rails of the gasket have metal inserts gave a much better feel when installing the bolts, as well as more consistent fitment.

I also switched to a solid aluminum timing cover after reading numerous complaints on the poor fitment of generic chrome covers. A huge difference in the timing cover tab that seals with the oil pan. Much stronger with the aluminum, not tack welded on like the generic chrome. Very beefy construction, glad I replaced this early on.

I'm letting everything set over night, then will recheck the bolts tomorrow and refill the pan. More later

 

[grumpyvette]

posted bye C Man

I hope my leasons learned will may help someone else.
I had a massive oil leak at the front of the engine that steadly got worse over the past 6 months. When it developed in a big puddle in the garage it was time to take action. From reading some of Grumppy's threads, I followed his advise and luckly my problem was one of the first on his list, oil pan gasket. If you don't have Service Manuals, my next purchase, the Chilton's Manual for 1993-1997 was a great help. If I would have followed my Haynes Manual, I would have droped the engine when it said to remove the crossmember braces. That would have been a mess. Here's a quick list that I haven't see on other threads.
1) I used the incramental jack up method that I got from these threads and safely got the front end up about 2 1/2 feet without tearing anything up.
2) Remove starter. Can be manuvered around the tranny cooling lines without removing them. It's preatty tuff getting back in though.
3) Remove oil filter assemby. I wanted to replace that gasket too but I couldn't get the old one out.
4) Remove bolts to the fly wheel cover but you can't remove it without removing the left catalytic converter. I lossen CC but I couldn't get it out. Oil pan can be remove with the flywheel cover loose though.
5) I used the one piece Fel-Pro gasket. This seamed a lot thicker the the original gasket I took out. The holding clips are no good because the oil pan can out be manuvered between the front of the engine block and the crossmembers when using them. I put the new gasket in place on engine block with the oil pan nuts and screws finger thight and used a small bead of grey silicone RTV at the front and back main-seal areas just keep the gasket in place, but I didn't put any on the engine block mateing surfaces. After a 24 hour cure, I removed the oil pan nuts and screws and easily put the oil pan back in place.
6) I put everything back together in reverse order, thighting to troq specs as I went.

I did try to remove the dip stick tube, which would have help in getting the pan back on, but I couldn't get it out and figured I would have ended up bending or breaking it trying to. After reading the threads about replacing those, I didn't want to go there. I've been driving a couple of miles each day for a week and haven't had any problems since. The oil leak is gone. These threads are great and I grabbed a lot of info from different ones. Thanks to all.

 

[grumpyvette]

IM glad someone actually reads that stuff I post
glad it all worked out well
I hope you supported the car safely, some of you might think Im old fashion but some repairs (even thou I own a LIFT) are easier to do with 4 12 ton jack stands and a creeper

related useful threads
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...etic-oil-cause-leaky-gaskets.2725/#post-13817

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=98

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-pan-gasket-still-small-leak.3084/#post-8194

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=3178&p=8465&hilit=creeper#p8465

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=1024&p=8948&hilit=ramps#p8948

if you don,t have a lift,and use a mechanics creeper do yourself a HUGE FAVOR and buy and use four of these jack stands, on a solid concrete floor


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34924

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1718

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2725&p=7076&hilit=synthetic+gasket#p7076

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=206&p=1154&hilit=+synthetic+gasket#p1154