oil system mods that help

Discussion in 'Oil and Lube Systems' started by grumpyvette, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    heres a short list
    REMEMBER the object or goal in building and maintaining the lubrication system is too maintain a 100% dependable pressurized cooling flow of lubricant to the bearings, rockers,valves etc.
    obviously use of a high quality synthetic oil that has a higher heat tolerance and that tends to break down slower and a decent quality oil filter are the first steps, and having a decent 7-8 quart baffled oil pan and the correct bearings will help a great deal, Ive generally preferred to use CLEVITE (H) style bearings as Ive found they work well in most high stress applications
    (1)drill the front pass side lifter gallery oil passage plug with a .035 drill so it sprays oil on the rear of the timing chain gear and chain
    if its a .035-.039 hole it will provide a bit extra lubrication without causing a problem with your oil pressure, just be aware of that drill size, basically a 1/32"-#72 drill, so use a drill press and take your time those bits are easy to break
    theres at least a few hours of very worth while , and quite useful reading in this thread and links that will prevent you wasting time and money, keep in mind the sub links contain a huge wealth of additional info youll need

    what seems to be over-looked in many engine builds is simply the fact you'll almost always DEEPLY regret jumping into the engine build with both feet and waving your check book as you sink ever deeper into piles of parts receipts and machine shop bills, rather than stepping back with a legal pad, and a calculator and listing in minute detail exactly what you want to accomplish, and taking the time and effort too list and check out in detail what each machine shop procedure costs, why its required and how much each components costs, what your options are and how each component will add too or benefit the completed combo (or in some cases cause you time and grief)
    stepping back and thinking things through in detail and listing the cost and potential problems and finding the solutions BEFORE you dive into the process may be a lot less fun, but in the long term its sure to cost less and result in a far better finished project!

    you might be amazed at what a couple hours research into the subject will do to help you build a much more durable engine, and actually reading thru links and sub-links and asking questions helps a great deal


    BTW if you soak a new timing chain and gears in a pan , covering them in a mix of synthetic oil and moly assembly lube and heat them to about 220 degrees to allow the oil to penetrate into the metals pores it will tend to pre-lubricate the chain and gears more effectively than just installing them dry, and from what Ive seen they last slightly longer, a cheap tin pan can be used, and if you don,t have an IR temp gun(you really should get one) adding a 1/4 teaspoon of water to the oil and watching it boil off as an indicator that the oils up to temp is a good idea, as you don,t want to over heat the oil or smoke up the kitchen
    Ive always found the best results from keeping the low rpm pressure , in the 15psi-20psi at hot idle and no more than 65psi at high rpms,is really useful, the voluum required depends on the way the engines clearances and oil systems designed or modified ,voluum/viscosity/clearances in the approximately stock range works fine in most .
    I like high voluum pumps but I certainly don,t use them IF the engines nearly stock as the standard Z28 SBC pump works fine
    "the standard volume pump gears are about 1.2" long the high volume pump gears are about 1.5 inches long (depends on manufacturer)
    heres the descriptions right from chevy

    READ THE RELATED LINKED INFO

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3536

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

    12555884
    SBC Oil Pump, High Pressure Z28/LT1. Production high-pressure oil pump with 1.20" gears.Will produce 60-70 psi oil pressure. Does not include screen. The pickup tube dia. is 5/8" for this pump.
    62.17


    the true high voluum pumps like this below are not necessary UNTILL youve done extensive mods that require the expra oil flow voluum

    14044872
    SBC Oil Pump, High-Volume. This high-volume pump has1.50" long gears.It has approximately 25% more capacity than a production pump at standard pressure. Does not include screen."


    BTW if your building a big block chevy engine, Big blocks have a tendency to trap air in the front of the oil passages feeding the lifters, which causes a rocker tap on start up. Because of this, there is a recessed Allen head oil galley plug behind the timing gear on the drivers side that has a hole drilled into it. This hole bleeds off air trapped in the front of the oil galley, and it also lubricates the back of the timing gear. This was a stock-from-the-factory modification to the oil galley, on some bbc engines.
    removal of the drilled oil passage plug with a solid galley plug (a BAD idea) or if a piece of trash or silicone in the oil passage that managed to block this galley plug,will usually result in lifter noise and lack of oil flow for a few minutes that can cause wear on the cam and lifters. its suggested one of the plugs get drilled ,drill the lifter gallery plug with a #72-1/32" drill to prevent this

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    http://freezeplugfactory.com/expansion-plug-size-chart/


    Brass Cup Plugs
    PART NOSIZEMILLIMETERPART NOSIZEMILLIMETER

    1025/16 7.939
    146
    1 1/2
    38.1
    103 3/8 9.525 147 1 9/16 39.69
    NOTICE THESE TWO SIZES ABOVE FIT MANY DIP STICK HOLES
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    be sure not to insert oil passage plugs into oil gallery passages too deeply
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    threading the oil passage plugs increases durability and I generally suggest drilling an oil pray jet hole thats .031-.035 in the pass side oil pass plug, THE ONE AS YET UN THREADED IN THE PICTURE ABOVE
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    keep in mind that as oil temps increase the oil viscosity tends to decrease, thus cold oil, at lets say 70F might cause the oil pressure gauge to read 50 psi at idle but the pressure reading slowly goes down to 25 psi once the oils reached lets say 210F, this is normal and expected
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    watch this video

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-10990/?rtype=4

    read these links, or miss a large percentage of the useful info

    http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp

    http://www.chevydiy.com/oil-lubrication-systems-guide-big-block-chevy-engines/

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150#p150

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6255&p=19681#p19681

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2080&p=5568&hilit=longer+filter#p5568

    viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1170

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265#p3265

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... ngine.aspx

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6491&hilit=valve+spring+cooling



    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=10388&p=42973#p42973

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... ology.aspx
    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=251&p=7986&hilit=+shiming+distributor#p7986

    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1186&p=4155&hilit=distrib+gears#p4155

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=123&p=153&hilit=groove+distributor#p153

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57&p=70&hilit=groove+distributor#p70
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    Cam gear or distributor gear wear is usually NOT caused by the high volume pump itself, but by insufficient internal engine running clearances.
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    THE CAM MANUFACTURER WILL BE ONLY TOO GLAD TO SELL THE CORRECT MATCHING DISTRIBUTOR GEAR TOO YOU
    and like a lifter on a cam lobe it is usually going to last longer if both the cam and distributor gear are new, coated with moly assembly grease and allowed to lap in and mate surfaces , rather than use used worn distributor gears on new cams



    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187&p=5890#p5890

    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1701&p=4179&hilit=bronze+distributor+gear#p4179

    Chevy V-8's, small block, big block, and 90? V-6 engines, all use splash lubrication to oil the distributor gear. Although higher RPM operation provides sufficient lubrication to prevent wear, low speed use can be a problem. The situation can become critical if a high volume oil pump is used. The high volume oil pump was developed for engines where bearing clearances were increased over stock. These work fine in racing engine applications, where extra clearance is provided in the short-block.

    However, when a high volume oil pump is used in an engine with stock internal clearances, the increased volume of oil can't flow through the engine fast enough to relieve the back pressure created. This places an increased load on the distributor gear, and leads to accelerated wear.

    Once the gear on either an 8620 steel cam or a cast iron cam is worn excessively, the cam itself must be scrapped! There is no repair for this problem, and the only option is to buy a new cam. To eliminate this annoying and expensive problem, we offer a simple, do-it-yourself way to help oil the distributor gear and reduce this accelerated wear in Chevy V-8 and 90? V-6 engines.

    On these engines, the lower portion of the distributor housing drops through the oil gallery that supplies oil to the lifters on the passenger side of the engine. Two rings at the bottom of the distributor housing seal the top and bottom of this galley. Oil flows around the distributor, between the two rings.

    Solving distributor gear wear is as simple as filing or machining a .030" groove in the bottom ring of the distributor housing. A three cornered file can also be used.

    The distributor housing should be grooved in any engine operated for extended periods at low engine RPM. With the distributor installed in the engine - ready to run - the groove should face TOWARDS THE CAMSHAFT. This will provide a reasonable flow of oil to lubricate and cool the distributor gear and cam gear as they operate.

    Remember to keep the groove facing the camshaft, and be sure to use the correct Crane high silicon, copper alloy distributor gear for best results.
    Its smart to file a small groove in the lower distributor so oil spray from the oil passage constantly lubricates the distributor gear to cam gar contact point

    you might find reading these threads above interesting

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    a very effective custom built windage tray can be fabricated for most oil pans from perforated steel, if you have minimal metal working and measuring skills
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    ADDING A WELL DESIGNED WINDAGE SCREEN SPEEDS OIL RETURN SPEEDS . AND EFFICIENCY TO THE ENGINE SUMP
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    Its smart to file a small groove in the lower distributor , or the block so oil spray from the oil passage constantly lubricates the distributor gear to cam gar contact point
    (2)groove the lower 1/3rd of the lifter bores with a comp cams lifter bore tool
    (3)braze the oil pump pickup so its locked at 1/2" off the pan floor after careful measurements are taken
    (4)groove the lower block where the distributor lower band seats in line with the cam gear to provide extra oil to that gear
    (5)use a windage screen mounted 1/8" from the outer arc of the rotating assembly
    (6)us a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, and a high flow oil cooler with a separate electrical fan sure helps in some applications
    (7) after, clearance checks carefully install , 6 magnets, two in the rear of each cylinder head,(one per head) two near the lifter gallery oil drain back holes and in the 4 corners of the oil pan sump
    (8) if using a flat tappet solid lifter cam use the crower PREMIUM lifters with the hardened/polished bases and .020 EDM oil spray hole in the base, and a hardened PREMIUM cam core
    (9) If you require a high volume oil pump use a 5 bolt big block design, with a 3/4" pick-up as they tend to run smoother
    (10) if you've got the clearance use the longer high capacity oil filters

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    yes you can groove the lifter bore walls to provide greater oil flow to the cam lobes and lifter base contact area,but read the instructions ! the tool comes with instructions, but keep in mind that you want to do is just increase oil flow rates not destroy a block, the grooves you cut are barely noticeable, only on the lower 1/3rd of the lifter bore and only about 5 -10 thousands deep, and just provide a bit more oil flow to the cam lobes
    I lent that tool out to one friend that cut grooves far too deep effectively ruining a block
    you can also just sand a flat spot on the lower 1/3rd of the lifter body with 600 grit sand paper on a sheet of glass this will also increase oil flow but remember the lifter spins in the bore so the groove supplies a steady stream of oil the flat spot throws a rapidly pulse flow

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    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5734&p=17492#p17492
    or if your into serious mods

    you might find these threads and sub linked info useful

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187&p=5890#p5890

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5734&p=17492&hilit=heat+chain+moly#p17492

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... pumps.aspx

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    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=8463&p=29691#p29691

    lifters with oil feed grooves
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    I suppose you could do these oil feed mods and groove the lower lifter bores and distributor gear oil feed groove,while you used a strong vacuum cleaner and magnets to limit the metallic debris ,on a partially assembled engine, but Ive never tried it, I do the minor machine work to a clean bare block even before the cam bearings are installed and carefully clean it, and all the oil passages with a rifle bore brush high pressure air and solvents, several times before installing the cam bearings, I generally prefer to start with the block on an engine stand that I can rotate easily for full access.
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    keep in mind the distributor base forms one wall of the lifter gallery oil passage
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    so grooving the lower oil band directly above the point where the gears start to mesh helps spray extra oil on the distributor/cam gears contact area, and yes that changes with distributor position so most guys cut a small fine groove in both the lower block wall and the distributor lower section above that location to assure a constant oil mist spray into the meshing gears

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    The distributor mount hole through the block is at an angle, and the pad where it locks down is cast and machined at a slight angle, after all, the cam shaft center line is DEAD CENTER,in the block and the distributor gear is riding ,with its gear teeth meshed to the side of it. The dist fits fairly tight to the block, since it completes the oil passage in the block to the pass side lifters,but that means the distributor leans just a bit from true vertical , so if you do notice that, its normal, and correct.


    THESE LINKS ARE WORTH READING THRU
    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3834

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

    http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ScreenInstall.pdf

    http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/baffle.htm

    http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ScreenInstall.pdf

    http://prestoliteweb.com/Portals/0/down ... 61_all.pdf

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1280&p=2741#p2741
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    one more potential possible source of metallic debris that could provide the cause of the cylinder bore damage
    now if your building an engine you GOING TO DO FREQUENT OIL CHANGES ON AND NEVER LET SLUDGE BUILD UP...you can probably limit that potential valve train shrapnel screens and magnets that trap small destructive crud
    shrapnel screens epoxied into the block to prevent valve train failure shrapnel from inducing bearing failure if crap gets sucked into the oil pump is a good idea IF you do frequent oil changes so the screens won,t get sledged up
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    THE SCREEN ABOVE IS CLOSE TO BEING IDEAL
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    THE SCREEN ABOVE IS TOO SMALL TO BE IDEAL
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    I generally use, and advise the use of stainless 6 or 8 mesh screens.
    theres lots of options that will work just fine, just remember to keep the oil changed regularly or theres some potential for sludge to clog ANY size shrapnel screens
    https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/store/main.html

    http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/products/T ... 6T0350W36T
    http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/products/T ... 8S0280W36T
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    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-25026?seid=srese1&gclid=COOf2IODscgCFZKAaQodHWoF1Q
    IVE typically used these magnets in an engine, one in the rear oil drain on each cylinder head, one near each lifter gallery drain and 4 in the oil pan sump

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    http://www.magnet4sale.com/smco-magnets-dia-1-2x1-4-samarium-cobalt-magnets-608f-temperature/

    http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH
    http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=3_27&products_id=251 (prefered)
    http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH (acceptable)

    use these, magnets linked above, in the lifter gallery and oil drain areas in the cylinder heads, and if you want too, the corners of the oil pan, the normal Neodymium magnets loose strength when subjected to high heat the ones listed ,especially the cobalt magnets are designed to operate under high heat conditions, you certainly don,t want metallic crap that was formally functional Neodymium magnets, that have lost the magnetism loose in the engine, you don,t need a great deal of pull strength, what you need is a way to trap and hold micro fine metallic crud from wear issues and preventing, that crap from getting embedded in bearings or causing wear in moving valve train components

    THIS is a good example of what happens to bearings if the oil passages are allowed to push small metallic debris, from wear like rockers,valve tips,cam and lifter wear thru the engine, use of a few small magnets, and shrapnel screens helps reduce or eliminate this

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    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=screens#p3265

    http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66SH

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=867&hilit=screens+magnets#p867

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57&p=70#p70
    http://freezeplugfactory.com/expansion-plug-size-chart/


    Brass Cup Plugs
    PART NOSIZEMILLIMETERPART NOSIZEMILLIMETER

    1025/16 7.939
    146
    1 1/2
    38.1
    103 3/8 9.525 147 1 9/16 39.69
    NOTICE THESE TWO SIZES ABOVE FIT MANY DIP STICK HOLES
    a high volume oil pump is generally only required if you've done extensive engine mods requiring increased oil flow rates, and ITS use requires a 6-8 qt baffled oil pan and a windage screen to operate correctly, pressure is a measure or resistance to flow, if you've done the mods to increase the flow rates like larger bearing clearances and lifter bore mods then a high volume pump makes sense and the load rates to run it drop significantly, youll generally want to run bearing clearances on the loose side of factory specs with a high volume oil pump and run an oil viscosity that allows you to maintain a minimum of 15psi and a maximum of about 25 psi of oil pressure once the oil temp reaches about 200F at idle rpms

    your NOT required to used mobile one oil, most of the name brand oils with the manufacturer suggested viscosity range and API rating
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    will work reasonably well and not void your warranty

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

    http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

    http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=6445

    http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1334

    http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2102&hilit=+synthetic

    THESE THREADS, and SUB LINKS HOLD MUCH MORE INFO
    BTW if you have a sudden drop in oil pressure on any engine with no other symptoms, you might want to replace the oil filter and check oil levels before you panic as its not uncommon for some brands of oil filters to fail internally

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57&p=70#p70

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1186&p=2440&hilit=distributor+gear#p2440

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    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=52

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=615

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... index.html

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1334&p=2910#p2910

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1489&p=5560&hilit=lifter#p5560

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2102

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64&p=77#p77

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265#p3265

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2080

    http://www.circletrack.com/nls/76818/index.html

    http://www.mellingengine.com/TechnicalS ... etins.aspx

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=88&p=5709&hilit=bearings#p5709

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=296

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=150&p=5335&hilit=+bearings#p5335

    http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php ... ad&A_id=64

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=525&p=650#p650

    obviously these won,t fit all chevy applications but if you have the room for the longer, spin on filters

    The "longer high capacity oil filter" Purolator is L40084.

    "longer high capacity oil filter" N.A.P.A: # 1794

    "longer high capacity oil filter" ACDelco: PF932

    you gentlemen, might want to keep in mind ALL oils are designed to carry heat, from the bearings and combustion process generated crud to the filter , and all oil slowly gets filled with micro crud,soot, acids and breaks down from heat and moisture contamination,over time, oil is cheap compared to major engine failures from lubricated parts failure. and while the newer synthetics are far better, than the older oils, its been my experience that keeping any synthetic oil over about 15,000-18,000 miles between changes even with frequent filter changes is probably a bad idea.
    obviously the operational conditions, heat levels and stress levels should be taken into consideration.
    now you certainly don,t need to change oil every 3500 miles like has in the past been suggested with the older generation oils. but changing oil every 7,000-8,000 miles certainly won,t be hurting much, and if you want to use the better oils over about 15,000-18,000 miles between changes even with frequent filter changes, thats certainly not likely to cause major issues and changing oil filters every 3500,-4000 mile can,t hurt either
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    radias and smooth the oil pump gallery feed
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    notice the welded tabs bracing the oil pump pick-up and that big block pumps have 5 cover screws unlike the small block pump with its 4 screw cover
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    "How to Hot Rod Big Block Chevrolets" and it is recommended to "add groves to your stock pump to get full load-balancing benefits for both the drive and idler gears" (page 113)
    http://www.corvette-restoration.com/res ... ancing.htm
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    MORE USEFUL INFO
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    yes the oil flows around the mounting stud,from oil pump to main cap to reach the engine oil passages, thru the oil filter
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    failure to use the correct oil pump,mounting stud, bolt or nut or carefully check clearances when mounting an oil pump can cause problems
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    ONE RATHER COMMON MISTAKE IS USING THE WRONG OIL PUMP STUD OR BOLT TO MOUNT THE OIL PUMP AS IF EITHER EXTENDS THRU THE REAR MAIN CAP IT CAN AND WILL BIND ON THE BEARING AND LOCK OR RESTRICT, SMOOTH ROTATION
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    be sure to verify the oil pump drive shaft won,t binds and has proper clearance
    Ive done that mod on several of my BBC oil pumps based on what Id read in that exact book, back in the 1970s, figuring the guys who wrote it knew more than I did, when it first was published, and found it did tend to make the oil pressure a bit more consistent, but that could be because it will cause some minor oil pressure flow leaking back under the spinning gears. it could also be that its no longer a required mod, why?
    because some oil pumps already come that way, if you look inside


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    some moroso pumps come pre machined that way
    HERES SOME MODS RECOMMENDED TO THE OIL PUMP
    moroso, summit racing etc. sells plug kits

    the melling 10990 pump is generally a good choice on a high performance sbc
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-10990/
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    that .032--.039 hole in the pass side oil passage plug will be Just fine !
    the object off drilling the tiny hole for those that don,t know is two fold, first it prevent trapped air in the oil passage from slowing oil reaching the lifters as trapped air is bled off rapidly, secondly it provides a constant flow of extra lube flowing to the chain cam drive even at low rpms

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    a small hole .032--.039 intersecting the oil feed passage to provide pressurized oil to the rear of the timing gear won,t hurt, and tends to reduce block wear

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=11063&p=49185#p49185

    LOOK CLOSELY THE LEFT LIFTER GALLERY PLUGS DRILLED TO SPRAY OIL

    http://www.harborfreight.com/60-piece-t ... 34627.html
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    you can get a cheap but semi-functional brill bit selection here, and it certainly helps to have a caliper handy

    http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-dia ... 66541.html

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    drill at least the left oil passage plug with a .025-.031 drill to supply the cam gears with extra oil flow, on a race engine with a high voluum oil pump, and a 7-9 quart oil pan, its a good idea to drill both the center and left plugs as it speeds oil flow reaching the lifters and prevents air being compressed in the passages slowing oil reaching the lifter and cam lobes.
    but the main benefit is a constant bath of oil flowing between the rear of the timing sets cam gear and the block, which tends to protect the block surface, and provide extra lube to the timing set.

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    having a REV-KIT that retains the lifters in their bores, to maintain oil pressure, even if the rocker comes loose or push rods breaks is a good idea
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    any time you go to install new cam bearings in an engine you first take detailed notes and a few pictures of the OLD cam bearing in the block under good lighting to note the location of the oil feed holes and and grooves, then as they are removed you number them each as its removed and measure them as on many engine they are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE between all main cap locations

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    25050 Lifter Valley Oil Baffle, Small Block Chevy, including 18° heads Only $33.99
    http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/25050/10002/-1
    * Increases horsepower by shielding bottom of intake manifold from hot oil
    * Keeps surplus oil out of valve covers by eliminating oil splash
    * Maintains oil pressure during pushrod or rocker arm failure by keeping lifters in their bores (except with roller cam)
    * Due to slight variation in blocks, the baffle may have to be trimmed .060 - .100" before it will "snap" into place
    * Cannot be used with roller lifters

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    keep in mind the sbc oil pump has 7 tooth gears and the big block pumps have 12 teeth making the oil flow smoother and less pulsed, plus having larger gears they tend to supply more oil at lower rpms
    look closely and youll see the big block oil pump has a 5 bolt lower cover and the oil pump pick-up with its 3/4" feed seats into the main pump casting while the small block oil pump has a 4 bolt cover and the sbc oil pump pick-up with its 5/8" feed seats into the pumps cover plate

    those holes in the back end of the last cam bearing journal on the cam core are there to prevent oil pressure build up behind the cam which could cause the expansion plug in the rear of the block to blow out

    you may want to think about installing an accumulator, its a device thats easily added that holds a couple quarts of oil under pressure that insures positive oil pressure

    http://www.moroso.com/articles/articledisplay2.asp?article=AboutAccumulator.html&catcode=13600

    http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1280&p=6082&
    hilit=accumulator#p6082


    http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=5423&p=16167#p16167

    http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4419&p=11685&hilit=+hole+feed+crank#p11685

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-friction-and-pumping-losses.8966/#post-31978

    ,its USUALLY not really about the amount of oil as much as controlling the rapid return of oil to the sump so its constantly covering the oil pump pick-up.
    just some info, you might need,
    depending on the oil pump used, rpms and clearances a chevy V8 will generally push some where between 2 and 6 gallons a minute thru the oil passages, your average oil pan sump holds at most 3 quarts ,while the engines running, and theres generally about 2 or a bit more quarts in the upper engine, (lifter gallery, heads)while the engines running, so when you induce high inertial loads is common for the oil pump pick up to become uncovered even in a baffled oil pan for a few seconds as that 2-3 quarts in the sump slams forward and back in the sump, because remember , lets say your engines only pumping 3 gallons a minute, and theres got to be at least 2 quarts in the sump to keep the oil pump pick-up covered under high inertial loads, its only going to take a few seconds at most under those conditions to suck air into the oil pump. obviously having a baffled 7-8 quart oil pan has advantages under those conditions as theres a good deal larger (SAFETY MARGIN) in the amount of oil present over the oil pump pick-up is you use the higher capacity BAFFLED oil pan with its better oil control and larger sump capacity,, windage screen combo

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    in some applications adding an oil accumulators a good idea
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=615

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
    for the BBC guys
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/show ... apter=7587
    [​IMG]

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150&hilit=magnets#p150

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=117

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3834&p=10199&hilit=shrapnel#p10199

    http://www.carbideselect.com/burshpescuts.php

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1458&p=3265&hilit=shrapnel#p3265
    DART BLOCKS HAVE A DIFFERENT OIL ROUTE
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    just keep in mind that you'll need to very carefully blend and smooth and carefully clean,the edges of the beveled area where the oil port feeds the bearing surface with some 600 grit sand paper so the oil flows well and theres no edges to cause bearing wear issues or crud left from the process that would get embedded in the bearings.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-oil-feed-holes-in-cranks.4419/#post-11637
    watch this video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... dEFGJqpCMY
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2017
  2. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    Id also point out that they make solid lifters with small oil spray holes in their base that will do the same thing, or add to the lower lifter bore groove oil flow rates with zero machine work,being done to the block.
    ID also point out that some of the better distributors with o-ring grooves have a small oil hole drilled between the o-rings that allows a steady stream of pressurized oil to enter the lower distributor shaft, the upper bearing is sealed so oil can,t exit into the upper distributor, but oil is routed to lube the lower bearing in the distributor, the oil exits to spray over the cam gear/distributor gear contact area, look closely at yours
    BTW its generally a good idea to pack the gears in any new oil pump with a 50%/50% mixed tablespoon of Valvoline and assembly lube as the slimy lube mix on the gears surface helps to seal clearances and increase the pumps suction on first starting the engine or priming the engine with the priming tool, and its washed out and disperses within a few seconds but it makes the engine far easier to prime
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    BTW HERES AN IMPORTANT TIP, IF YOUR INSTALLING A REMOTE OIL COOLER, IT is really common for guys to use lines that are far to small, that restrict flow oil flow or select a transmission or oil cooler that has to small of internal passages, shop carefully you want a MINIMUM of 1/2, or AN8 line size and 5/8" or AN10 is BETTER.

    http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=3_27&products_id=251 (prefered)
    or
    http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH
    https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DX06SH&cat=167
    (acceptable) you always need to read through the fine print as to temperature range on magnets

    use these, magnets linked above, in the lifter gallery and oil drain areas in the cylinder heads, and if you want too, the corners of the oil pan, the normal Neodymium magnets loose strength when subjected to high heat the ones listed ,especially the cobalt magnets are designed to operate under high heat conditions, you certainly don,t want metallic crap that was formally functional Neodymium magnets, that have lost the magnetism loose in the engine, you don,t need a great deal of pull strength, what you need is a way to trap and hold micro fine metallic crud from wear issues and preventing, that crap from getting embedded in bearings or causing wear in moving valve train components
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/magnets.120/#post-49772

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    use of a large magnet on the base of the longest oil filter that will fit with the required clearance is a good idea, as it helps trap much of the metallic debris , in the filter,and the increased surface area on the filter case adds a tiny bit of extra cooling surface and room for extra filter medium, but remember heat from headers or exhaust pipes near the filter also effects magnets

    [​IMG]


    longer length oil filters with significantly more pleets and synthetic mediums have significantly lower resistance to oil flow reducing pumping losses slightly, but a couple horse power gained here and faster oil flow helps durability, and cooling of the bearings and valve train
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    many guys don,t realize that adding an oil and/or a transmission fluid cooler, with its own fan and radiator that allows those liquids to be cooled separately, to your engine and drive train, significantly reduces the heat load on the radiator, and generally allows the engine temps to decline noticeably. in fact just adding a high volume oil pan and a transmission cooler can drop your engine coolant temps 20F-30F in many cases,
    I would strongly suggest you never consider use of fuel line and AN type fitting's for use as transmission fluid, or oil cooler transfer lines even if a transmission , fluid or oil cooler cooler is used,
    if you bring the current fittings that fit the transmission to a local hydraulic supply shop along with the exact length of the lines you need and explain what your trying to do , they can fabricate the correct, high pressure and high heat tolerant, transmission fluid, or oil cooler lines to your exact specifications for VERY REASONABLE COST, thus preventing what might otherwise become a potential weak link.
    common rubber fuel line will NEVER hold up under the heat and pressure of a transmission fluid transfer line ,long term.
    most rubber fuel line , even FUEL INJECTION LINE is rated to work at UNDER 200 psi and UNDER 250 F, your typical transmission fluid will occasionally exceed 250F and commonly run in the 160F-210F temp range even with a trans fluid cooler

    http://www.novaflex.com/productcart/pc/features_pdf/mjarine Fuel Hose2.pdf

    http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6113/Barricade_Training_Final.pdf

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/flex-fuel-lines.4381/#post-14833

    hydraulic line is usually rated OVER 2500 psi and up to 300F temps

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hrust-bearing-failure-info-related-info.1138/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/causes-of-bearing-failure.2727/#post-13056

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/#post-7077

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/#post-26599

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rotating-assembly-bearings.9527/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-up-oil-feed-holes-in-bearings-shells.10750/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

    RELATED

    http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/1_2_Custom_Hydraulic_Hoses_s/335.htm

    http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Hydraulic_Hose_s/84.htm

    http://www.discounthydraulichose.co....htm?Click=2&gclid=COWnvIjq9ckCFVQ2aQoddYEF_g

    http://www.parker.com/literature/Hose Products Division/Catalog 4400 PDF Files/Master_Table_of_Contents.pdf

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    a rather common issue with adding oil coolers, is that many of the coolers available can significantly restrict fluid flow because of the small restrictive internal cross section of the internal tubing, AN #6 and 3/8" tube coolers can be quite restrictive, the AN#8 are better but DUAL AN#8 coolers and AN#10 lines generally work the best, and there's also frequently limited space to position a cooler in the outside cool air flow mandating a powered fans.
    the solution to both issues can and frequently does require use of two different oil coolers but placed in series this can further increase flow restrictions, the solution is in use of larger internal cross sectional area,transfer lines and mounting the twin coolers in parallel thus doubling the effective cross sectional area reducing the flow restriction the cooler potentially could produce if used in series

    think about it, your measuring the oil pressure in most cases AFTER its been thru the cooler and returned to the oil passages in the block, oil leaves the oil pump and its routed to the oil filter where the oil filter adapter routes it thru the oil cooler and back to the adapter then into the block, your measuring the restricted oil flow after its returned to the block, if the lines or cooler passages restrict oil flow its potentially a problem for lubrication of the moving parts if pressure or oil volumes reduced
    [​IMG]

    [/color]
    http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml

    COOLFACE SOLID LIFTER pg 141

    and you can place a standard solid lifter on a sheet of 600 grit wet sand paper, placed on a sheet of glass and quickly sand a small flat surface along the lower side that will allow increased oil flow, just be very careful to leave no burrs or rough areas that might reduce the lifters ability to spin in its bore and a 5-7 thousand deep flat is plenty

    one of the very best mods you can add to a car is a well designed high capacity baffled oil pan,but
    before you spend money on that oil pan, carefully measure the current oil pans depth, and side clearance to headers and the starter,frame, oil filter etc. and look at the current oil pans road clearance them get a block of Styrofoam thick enough to simulate the new potential pan depth and tape it to the bottom of the current oil pans sump, have two of your heavier friends sit in the car and then you get out and carefully inspect the road to oil pan depth/clearance, if its less than 4" Id suggest looking for a shallower 7-8 qt design, or if your a decent fabricator and have a welder you can use cardboard and tape to make a pattern and modify your current oil pan, adding an oil cooler and remote oil filter is at times a great idea.
    ask the oil pan manufacturer if the pan your thinking about purchasing will fit your frame, and application, and ask about header and starter clearance issues
    [​IMG]
    theres also the option of using an accumulator.
    [​IMG]



    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-23900/?rtype=10



    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi ... ey=15-240M

    http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/road-race-oil-pans.asp

    http://www.stefs.com/products.html

    http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/or ... R&line=WYS


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ty-thats-key-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6491

    http://www.hamburgersperformance.com/mycars/default.asp

    viewtopic.php?f=57&t=176

    http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categoryd ... code=11929

    allowing for extra oil spraying onto the timing chain assembly by drilling small holes in the forward oil passage plugs is an old engine builders mod that even the factory in some rare cases used.
    its simply a reasonable way to get extra lubricant to the timing chain assembly, which because its spinning tends to throw off oil rapidly so its in constant need of more oil flow. its designed to get most of its oil in the form of a constant oil fog in the crank case,generated by the spinning rotating assembly and theres a larger upper hole in the block wall and the oil pan forward section that allows oil to slosh onto the timing chain when you hit the brakes, but unless your running right up at the full mark on the dip stick that oil sloshing tends to be limited, so adding the hole to the oil passage forward plugs tends to help.
    [​IMG]

    viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1170

    a number #65 or #66 drill is about correct

    viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1170&p=2396#p2396

    CNC BLOCKS N/E posted this info


    "
    QUOTE
    I have seen on all GM rear caps SBC & BBC we have found then to be restricted because of the casting hangs in past the oil port of the oil pump and we have seen some that have been block 60%

    Take a oil pump cut it off like the one on the right.

    The cap on the left has been opened up to match the oil pump.

    The cap in the middle had been marked with a marker showing how much has to be removed.

    The cap on the right you can look in the oil port and see the casting blocking the port.

    Even on the after market blocks they some times have to be touched up.
    [​IMG]"
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    BTW HERES AN IMPORTANT TIP, IF YOUR INSTALLING A REMOTE OIL COOLER, IT is really common for guys to use lines that are far too small, that restrict flow oil flow or select a transmission or oil cooler that has to small of internal passages, shop carefully you want a MINIMUM of 1/2, or AN8 line size and 5/8" or AN10 is BETTER.
    many guys don,t realize that adding an oil and/or a transmission fluid cooler, with its own fan and radiator that allows those liquids to be cooled separately, to your engine and drive train, significantly reduces the heat load on the radiator, and generally allows the engine temps to decline noticeably. in fact just adding a high volume oil pan and a transmission cooler can drop your engine coolant temps 20F-30F in many cases
    [​IMG]
    heres an old comparison of many popular oils done by streetcommodores.com in PDF format, requires adobe viewer but its very enlightening

    http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf


    Understanding the Differences in Base Oil Groups
    http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... oil-groups

    How to Distinguish Between Mineral and Synthetic Oils
    http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... thetic-oil

    When is It Hot Enough for a Synthetic?
    http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... -synthetic

    When to Switch to a Synthetic Oil
    http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... -synthetic

    heres one way to hook up cooler lines in tight places

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-15875/

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2017 at 6:53 PM
  3. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    these oils tested the best, Id strongly suggest the Valvoline racing oils as the best value
    obviously the quality of the oil used is critical, these oils tested the best
    investing in a couple high heat tolerance magnets to place in any transmission,or engines oil pan certainly won,t hurt durability either
    proper magnets trap metallic debris
    SmCo Samarium Cobalt Disc Magnets
    http://www.magnet4less.com/
    [​IMG]

    Samarium Cobalt MAGNETS HELP
    http://www.magnet4sale.com/smco-disk-magnet-dia-1x1-4-samarium-cobalt-magnets-608-f-temperature/
    magnets are ceramic and glass hard, don,t try to drill or grind them, as they can shatter
    Ive used the extended length WIX filters for decades with good results
    you generally have to look up the number or ask the parts counter guys,
    to look up the longer length version filter numbers,
    but Ive always felt it was worth the time to get the longer filter,
    and minimal extra cost to use them
    Id also suggest you install a long higher capacity oil filter if you have the clearance to do so, as both the extra oil capacity and the fact that the larger oil filter with its greater surface area constantly exposed to outside air flow, (especially if you have an oil filter finned cooler) can in many cases reduce oil temps 5 degrees or more

    [​IMG]
    clip on a decent magnet to the base of a long oil filter helps it trap metalic trash more effectively, and while $29 may sound high its good extra insurance that potentially reduces the chances of metalic debis from getting to the bearings and valve train.
    consider the cost of bearing replacement?
    [​IMG]
    http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/



    10W30 Lucas Racing Only, full synthetic = 106,505 psi
    zinc = 2642 ppm
    phos = 3489 ppm
    moly = 1764 ppm


    10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
    zinc = 1669 ppm
    phos = 1518 ppm
    moly = 784 ppm


    10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
    zinc = 1472 ppm
    phos = 1544 ppm


    10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
    zinc = 1180 ppm
    phos = 1112 ppm
    moly = 162 ppm


    30 wt Red Line Race Oil, full synthetic = 96,470 psi
    zinc = 2207 ppm
    phos = 2052 ppm
    moly = 1235 ppm


    10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil, full synthetic = 95,360 psi
    zinc = 1431 ppm
    phos = 1441 ppm
    moly = 52 ppm


    10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL (semi-synthetic) = 90,226 psi
    zinc = 1221 ppm
    phos = 955 ppm
    moly = 99 ppm


    READ THRU THESE LINKS
    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4793&p=13024#p13024

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=456&p=560&hilit=zddp#p560

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=282&p=345&hilit=zddp#p345

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150&hilit=zddp#p150

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1057

    [​IMG]

    IF your experiencing excessive distributor gear wear,theres several likely reasons and the most likely is a combo of less than ideal lubrication flow and a material in-compatibility between the cam and distributor gears, add the extra drag the oil pump is likely to produce after ingesting metallic crap from the gear wear..well...Id sure take a strong light and look down the distributor hole at the cam gear and hopefully its NOT similarly worn.
    some roller cams came with steel gears that require a bronze alloy distributor gear, if your experiencing that wear Id suggest inspecting the oil pump also as theres a good chance its damaged, due to the crud its ingested.
    a tool like this should have let you now months ago something was wrong

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=938

    cutting a groove in your lower distributor oil band in-line with the beginning contact point between the gears meshing will provide extra oil flow to the gears but having compatible materials and clearances will be critical, cutting a similar small groove in the block to route oil flow directly into the cam/distributor gear mesh area will also help your cam manufacturer will know the correct distributor gear material to use.
    generally its best to purchase all the listed components in a cam installation kit (cam, lifters,valve springs, etc. ) from a single manufacturer as mixing parts, sources or brands,
    allows the cam manufacturer to void the warranty, even if the parts in the kit they sell are either identical or inferior to,
    the individually purchased components you individually sourced. keep in mind most manufacturers will have tested parts compatibility ,
    so they are reasonably sure the components they sell in the kit will work, that can,t be always assumed,
    with randomly matched parts even if those parts are good quality.

    [​IMG]
    having a good high capacity baffled oil pan on your engine adds considerably to its potential durability and potential life span
    [​IMG]
    From Sallee Chevrolet. http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/PriceLi ... 3.726.html

    http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html

    01103952 - Distributor, Late model HEI F/I, small cap. This complete distributor is used on late model V8 engines with fuel injection and computer controls. = 168.92 ( Does not say hardened gear or for roller cams )

    01104060 - SBC Distributor Assembly, for Ram Jet 350. This complete distributor is used on the Ram Jet 350 port fuel injection engine. - 176.09 (RJ350 has a roller cam, but does not say this has hardened gear. so what is the diff. in this one and the one above? )

    01104067 - HEI HO Distributor. This distributor has the melonized cam drive gear P/N 10456413 for steel roller camshafts. This distributor is required on all crate engines and roller camshafts that are made of steel. If engines are assembled not using this gear, it may affect your engine warranty. Use connector wire P/N 8917052 to ignition. Used with all small and big-block V8 High Output engine assemblies. Technical Notes: Components in these groups are interchangeable with small-block Chevrolet V8s. GM Performance Parts distributors cannot be used with "tall deck" Bow Tie block P/N 14044808. - 227.41 ( only one that says it's for roller cams, but this is a large cap HEI ).


    10456413 - Distributor HEI Gear, large cap. You must use this gear with the new roller cams. This is a hardened gear. This distributor gear is used on all Chevrolet small and big-block engines, including steel roller camshaft engines. - 22.88

    10469459 - Distributor HEI Gear, small cap. You must use this gear with the new roller cams. This is a hardened gear. Also fits some Mallory distributors. - 23.74
    The bottom of a Chevrolet distributor housing can be and SHOULD BE! modified to spray pressurized oil onto the distributor drive gear. The extra lubrication will reduce distributor gear and camshaft gear wear. This is especially important when the gear is used to drive non-standard accessories, such as a high volume oil pump, or a magneto that puts additional loads on it and the cam. <P>When the distributor is installed, the bands at the bottom of the housing are designed to complete the internal right side lifter galley on all small and big block Chevrolet V-8’s and 90° V-6 engines. If you hand file a small vertical groove .030" wide x .030 that's the diam. that crane recommends Ive always used the larger .050 wide groove with no problems, deep on the bottom band (above the gear), pressurized oil running between the two bands will be directed downward onto both the gear and the cam This procedure is recommended for all Chevrolet engines no matter what material gear (cast or bronze) or what type of camshaft (cast or steel) you are using keep in mind the groove MUST be lined up with the cam gear when the distributor. is installed

    IF the cam gear looks worn you'll need to replace the cam, or( if the gears a separate component get that replaced)( IT is on some billet cams btw)
    BEFORE you go installing a new distributor gear or that will also wear at an accelerated rate
    YOU must both match the correct gear materials and provide the correct lubrication, Id suggest two new gear surfaces, a good coat o MOLY assembly lube and cutting the lower distributor band for increased oil flow, ID also replace the oil pump.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-89027LUN/

    [​IMG]

    on Chevrolet engines, Crane recommends that a .030-inch-wide and .030-inch-deep groove be machined or filed into the bottom band on the distributor shaft as shown (arrow) to provide lubricant to the distributor gears. Place the groove on the distributor so that when timed properly, the groove will face the camshaft. With the distributor in this position, oil will spray both the distributor and the cam gear to significantly reduce gear wear. This trick can improve gear life for any type of camshaft. Ford engines have an oil passage plug that points directly at the distributor gear. A .025-inch hole can be drilled into the plug to lubricate these gears.
    [​IMG]
    BEVELS ON BLOCK DISTRIBUTOR MOUNTING HOLE GREATLY EXAGGERATED FOR CLARITY
    if your distributor uses O-rings you should use at least the upper o-ring
    [/b]



    http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... index.html

    moroso sells plug kits
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    be sure only one oil passage plugs drilled, generally only the pass side oil passage plug with a single .025-.030 hole, many guys use a 1/32" drill bit because its easy to locate, I prefer the smaller #72 drill
    [​IMG]




    http://buydrillbits.com/products/hss/gp2.php?c=AIR

    [​IMG]
    http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Long-Drills/1180.html


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/drill-bits.4714/#post-12806


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    more than one guys added a powerful magnet on the pick-up to pull metallic crap out of the oil

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=120&p=150&hilit=+magnets#p150

    http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.a ... =RX054-N52
    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=57&p=70#p70

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187

    viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1186&p=2440&hilit=distributor+gear#p2440

    [​IMG]

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PIO-PE100BR/
    [​IMG]
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-34033/?rtype=10
    viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1170&p=2396#p2396

    brazing , silver solder or TIG welding will help prevent that pick-up from falling out as will welding on a vibration brace , as will some other precautions
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4306&p=11353&hilit=safety+wire#p11353

    http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

    READ THRU THIS LINK

    http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/ ... index.html
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/ ... index.html

    [​IMG]
    COMP SELLS A TOOL TO GROOVE LIFTER BORES
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2017
  4. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    BTW if your just looking to buy vs build a decent oil pan heres some sources
    don,t forget that oil flow rates, and reducing the transmission fluid temp in the lower radiator on cars equipped with an automatic transmission, have a big effect on engine cooling so adding a trans or oil cooler helps engine durability
    [​IMG]
    KEEP IN MIND A WELL DESIGNED
    7-8 quart baffled oil pan helps both with both engine cooling and durability issues

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][/img]
    THIS STUFF WORKS
    [​IMG]
    very good
    [​IMG]
    very very good
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    yes the additives in the the quart of MMO you can add to your crank case oil, do a good job of breaking up and holding in suspension oil sludge and transporting it to the oil filter
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    Loves302Chevy posted these diagrams that will be helpful
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    other sources

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...es-related-to-zddp-detergent.4793/#post-13022

    http://www.kevkoracing.com/

    http://www.stefs.com/stefsindex.htm

    http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorybrowse.asp?CatCode=11000

    http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/oil-pans-from-milodon.asp

    http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/

    http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/1289/SBC-MODIFIED-&-STREET-STOCK-WET-SUMP-PANS

    http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/1833/SB_CHEVY_CIRCLE_TRACK_6-1::2"_OIL_PAN

    http://www.billetfab.com/pans.htm

    http://www.bakerengineeringinc.com/ProCam.html#wetsump

    http://www.drysump.com/index1.htm

    Now the question always comes up, why do I need a high volume oil pump and 6-8 quart oil pan, the main reason youll use a high volume pump to begin with is to provide more volume of oil,at any given rpm,oil that cools the rings, rockers, bearings,that are being stressed to levels the original engineers never expected. etc,plus at high rpm levels there 2-2.5 quarts of oil in the valve covers, lifter gallery and trapped rotating with the crank assembly if you don,t have a windage screen and baffled oil pan, now hit the brakes or accelerate hard, oil stacks into one end of the oil pan and theres darn little oil left above the oil pump pickup,in a 4-5 quart oil pan,but the mods are really , only required if you have increased the oil flow rates,by increasing the bearing clearances,and re directing oil and as a result you also need to control the flow better and have more oil in the sump, ordinarily the engines needs are supplied, and the adequate volume can easily be supplied by the standard oil pump if you have not increased the clearances and done a few other mods to increase the oil flow rates to parts in the engine to increase the flow rates to cool and lubricate the components.
    so the obvious question is why do you bother doing the mods in the first place, if the standard pump will work, the answer is the standard pump works fine up to the limits it was designed for, and thats a engine of about 265-327-350 cubic inches and spinning under about 6500rpm that produces under about 370hp,
    once you start to exceed that theres a few modifications that can, if done correctly increase the cooling and engine durability, but those mods require a greater volume of oil flowing over parts to cool and lubricate them than the stock pump cam provide, if you read the linked info youll see that there are modifications to a, stock sbc to convert it into a race engine that are neither needed or useful on a street engine, but due to the far higher stress levels in a race engine those mods become more important to durability.
    it should be rather obvious that a decent oil cooler, on your cars lube system and on your cars transmission,that keeps the transmission fluid temps in the ideal temperature range will tend to maintain the more consistent and lower oil temperature ranges both your engine and transmission will require to last under harsh operating conditions. it should be equally obvious that a well designed oil pan and windage screen that will help maintain a consistent supply of that oil to the engine and if possible a deeper aluminum transmission pan that allows you to increase the volume of transmission fluid will help maintain those consistent temps., there are several good dual path coolers available but if you've got the room two separate 6 pass coolers with 3/8" npf fittings and matching lines would be ideal.
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    http://buydrillbits.com/products/hss/gp2.php?c=AIR

    [​IMG]
    http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Long-Drills/1180.html


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/drill-bits.4714/#post-12806

    [​IMG]
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    Ive been using this recently on my transmission, as my 10 qt custom oil pan seems to provide adequate oil cooling by it self

    [​IMG]
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-12318/

    heres a similar dual trans fluid & separate engine oil cooler

    [​IMG]
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-13311/?rtype=10

    [​IMG]
    BTW I DON,T KNOW WHO SELLS THESE BUT IVE GOT TWO ON MY CORVETTES OIL FILTERS AND THEY EASILY REDUCE OIL TEMPS 7-15 DEGREES the ones I have are about 6" long and fit about 90% of the diam of the filter
    BTW most early TPI corvettes had an oil cooler mounted between the engine block and oil filter that would reduce the oil temps in the engine, by circulating the engine coolant and oil thru separate,parallel passages , this had the advantage of more rapidly warming cold oil but keeping its max temp lower than without its use.
    [​IMG]
    yes they work, they easily drop the oil temps 15 plus degrees F or more, by running the oil flow alongside but separated from the engine coolant. now they are NOT as effective as a aux cooler because they can,t lower temps to quite as low as engine coolant temp levels,and if you pay attention to your gauges youll generally see oil temps tend to run 15-30 degrees over coolant temps, on most engines. while if you install the AUX oil or trans fluid coolers , with the electric fans ,those can, at least in theory lower temps to outside air temps, or at least to significantly lower levels than the coolant temps. and yes that can easily be 100F LOWER. I,d also point out that a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, the longer length oil filters and an adding an fan cooled oil cooler can reduce oil temps very rapidly , so get a few gauges installed to help verify actually operating oil temps.
    I find it rather amazing that many guys (even a few corvette owners) don,t realize that the oil cooler between the block and oil filter does remove a noticeable amount of heat from the engine oil, or that in some cases that they even have an oil cooler factory installed. ITS OIL FLOW that absorbs and initially transfers heat away from the bearings and valve train not coolant.
    my 1985 corvette came with a factory oil cooler, that runs engine coolant through separate but contacting internal passages, this warms the oil faster getting it flowing but tends to reduce the heat engine oil can reach as it absorbs oil heat effectively transferring it too the engine coolant on the car, where its transferred too air flow through the radiator
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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2017 at 6:44 PM
  5. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    btw if your dealing with a big block 396 make sure what year the block is from,
    what year was the engine block and cam bearings, are is important because
    on the 396, early 65-66 396 engines REQUIRED a GROOVED REAR CAM JOURNAL AND CAM, or they starved for upper engine oil flow, if you installed a standard bbc cam or standard cam bearings your screwed

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2600&p=6732&hilit=+bearing+rear+groove#p6732

    one factor thats frequently over looked is that many bearing manufacturers don,t seem to have placed the bearing oil feed holes in bearing shells so they exactly match the oil feed passages in the engine blocks
    example heres a common minor mis-match on the bearing shell/oil passage alignment
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
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    tear-dropping oil feed holes in cranks helps oil flow

    but Ive seen some where over 1/3-to-1/2 the oil feed hole was blocked due to misalignment, thats usually easily cured, by drilling a shallow increased diameter recess in the blocks oil passage to open it to match the bearing or opening up the bearing feed hole, but which ever route you take be sure to carefully clean and deburr both

    [​IMG]

    As you'll see in Figure 1, below two different types of grooved upper main bearing shells

    [​IMG]
    the oil groove terminates before it gets to the bearing parting line. This style of main bearing has accounted for a 15 percent or more increase in hot idle oil pressure. So if you're looking to eliminate some of those unexplained low oil pressure gremlins contact your bearing manufacturer and ask about this style bearing and availability for the engine applications that you are building.

    keep in mind only the upper main bearing shell should have an oil groove, having a 360 degree oil groove lowers the bearing ability to handle high rpm loads

    [​IMG]
    THESE BEARING PICTURED ABOVE, LOOK GREAT BUT HAVE LOWER LOAD CAPACITY
    [​IMG]
    these CLEVITE (H) SERIES, ABOVE MAY NOT LOOK AS GOOD BUT HAVE HIGHER LOAD CAPACITY AND BEVELED EDGES FOR THE CRANK FILLETS, or ROUNDED CORNERS ON THE JOURNALS THAT INCREASE STRENGTH LIKE ON THE CRANK BELOW
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    increasing the groove, from 180 deg to 270 deg, lowers bearing support, increases oil flow rates and tends to increase wear
    http://www.mahleclevite.com/techbulleti ... TB2051.pdf
    Introduction:
    The main bearing oil groove is required for the sole purpose of supplying oil to the
    connecting rod big end bearing. At one time it was common to have a full 360° groove on the
    main bearing to provide an uninterrupted supply of oil to the big end by means of a single
    drilling from the main journal. This was achieved by having identical upper and lower bearing
    shells.
    As bearing loads increased this design proved unsustainable as the oil film thickness, on
    which every crankshaft bearing relies, became insufficient for reliable main bearing
    operation. The solution was to increase the bearing area on the more heavily loaded lowerhalf
    bearing by reducing the extent of the groove to around 230° or even 180° in order to
    provide a single bearing land of greater width. Any increase in bearing width enables a
    higher oil film pressure to be sustained as the distance from the centre of the bearing to the
    edges, which cannot sustain an oil pressure, is increased. This in effect allows the
    generation of a thicker oil film with which to separate the shaft and bearing shell.
    The reduced oil groove extent would sometimes be compensated by a cross-drilling on the
    main journal in an attempt to maintain an uninterrupted supply of oil to the big end bearing.
    However, in many cases it was found that the big end could cope very well with the
    subsequent intermittent oil flow offered by a single drilling from a 180° groove.
    Nowadays, with the use of computer simulation and engine testing the optimum extent of the
    groove may be determined. It is not now just a case of allowing the big end to survive but
    that the efficiency of the bearing system can actually be improved by due attention to the
    groove geometry. This is because the big end bearing, like any hydrodynamic lubricated
    bearing, will use as much oil as it needs to generate an oil film for any given operating
    condition. Any less than this amount risks disrupting the oil film and ultimately starving the
    bearing of oil, but equally, feeding excessive oil to the bearing simply results in additional
    leakage, and reduced efficiency. Therefore, the oil groove, like many other features on a
    bearing shell, can be optimised.

    read thru this
    http://vandervell.co.uk/images/slidesho ... forman.pdf

    I recently had a guy come by that had a massive oil leak at the rear of his TPI engine he wanted me to help him remove and replace the intake gasket which he was convinced was the source of the oil leak, but I convinced him to take a few minutes to locate the source of the oil leak BEFORE we started dismantling the upper engine, a bit of testing showed it was a defective oil pressure sending unit sensor under the distributor.
    now this is a P.I.T.A. to easily access on the stock engine config but its easily modified for easier access with an adapter that allows you to move the sensor further out away from the distributor



    [​IMG]
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    ON A TPI INTAKE GETTING TO THE OIL PRESSURE PORT IS A TRUE P.I.T.A. as clearance is MINIMAL AT BEST, using a 45 degree adapter and a couple other adapters allows you to move the sensors out from under the HEI distributor for easy access

    the oil pressure switch might be defective, if the fuel pump won,t run, even if its new
    and at $11-$35 Id just swap it out if your concerned

    [​IMG]
    http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?pf_i ... ept_id=153
    [​IMG]
    http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?pf_i ... ept_id=153

    the single terminal sensor runs the oil gauge the dual connector runs the fuel pump ONCE theres about 5 psi of oil pressure but they do fail and they do leak oil when they fail and both are commonly located near the distributor
    CHECKING TRUST BEARING CLEARANCE
    THIS BEAM STYLE TORQUE WRENCH IS THE TYPE TORQUE WRENCH YOU WANT TO CHECK ROTATIONAL RESISTANCE
    [​IMG]

    ID SUGGEST YOU KNOCK THE CRANK FRONT TO BACK IN BOTH DIRECTIONS WITH A PLASTIC DEAD BLOW HAMMER SEVERAL TIMES TOO SEAT THE THRUST BEARING BEFORE MEASURING CLEARANCE WITH A DIAL INDICATOR ON THE CRANK SNOUT! (IDEALLY .007-.010)
    you can increase thrust bearing clearance, a couple thousands if required, by polishing the thrust bearing to crank surface on a sheet of wet, fine grit, sand paper ,on a sheet of glass, with 1000 grit wet/dry sand paper in a figure 8 pattern obviously clean the bearing carefully befor re-installing it!

    [​IMG]
    ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION TO THE PICTURES AND LINKS AND SUB LINKS
    NOTICE NO CONNECTING RODS ON THE CRANK WHILE VERIFYING THRUST BEARING CLEARANCES

    http://www.harborfreight.com/4-lb-neon-orange-dead-blow-hammer-69004.html
    every engine builder needs a plastic dead blow hammer, After torquing the main caps in place and before installing connecting rods you'll need to drive the crank back and forward in the main bearing saddles a few times fore and aft, to properly seat the thrust bearing before taking clearance measurements, and only then proceed to the rod & piston install, rotational resistance checks and checking rod side clearance during assembly.

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2017
  6. DorianL

    DorianL solid fixture here in the forum Staff Member

  7. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    thats a good question, because they sell a bunch of those baffles, designed to be installed between the rear main cap and the oil pump.
    but the idea behind those plates is that they in theory slow the flow of oil in the sump from climbing up the rear of the oil pan under high (G)loads like under hard acceleration.
    Ive tested those plates in several engines that Ive built and the results Ive seen lead me to believe that in a properly designed oil pan with a well designed windage screen and baffles ,they don,t really do all that much to help, because the combo of windage screen and baffles already does a great deal of that oil control, but they don,t seem to hurt anything either.
    the oil mist bath, being constantly thrown from the rotating crank assembly unto the lower bore walls,and rockers over the valve train,valve springs, rockers,rods and underside of the pistons does A GREAT DEAL of the initial heat absorption and heat transfer,
    and prevents the pistons and rings from being damaged,
    only as the hot oil falls, and drains back into the lower sump is much of the heat transferred to the coolant in the block.
    oil flow and coolant flow are both required to absorb and remove heat build-up from the engine,especially from the rotating assembly , bearings,and valve train components
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    read the linked info


    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=64&p=77#p77

    540RAT posted this info
    Sucking the pan dry IS JUST AN OLD WIVES TALE. An oil pump can only pump as much oil out of the pan, as the motor will bleed off through all its clearances. Beyond that, the oil pump reaches bypass pressure and simply returns any excess oil to the pumps intake side, so it is not sucking that amount of oil out of the pan. Therefore, its leaving a larger volume of oil in the pan. Or else the oil pressure relief valve releases the excess oil back into the pan. And if for some reason the bypass isn't large enough, then the pressure would HAVE TO GO UP.

    Once an oil pump reaches bypass pressure, it makes no difference whether the pump is std volume or high volume, it won't drain oil from the pan any quicker. Pressure is pressure, no matter how it is generated. So, if a std volume pump can't pump the pan dry, then neither can a high volume pump at the same pressure.

    In order to suck the pan dry, youd have to have â insufficient drain-back. Blaming the pump, would be misidentifying the problem. Sure the pump gets the oil up to the top, but its drain-back that gets it back to the pan. So, just be sure that you have plenty of drain-back capacity and it would be impossible to pump the pan dry.

    While dyno testing my 540ci BBC with .003 clearance on the rods and mains, using 5W30 synthetic oil, and using a Titan â high volume gerotor oil pump, it maintained a rock steady 80 psi (the preset relief valve setting) from about 5,000 rpm on up, with no pressure drop AT ALL. So, there was no sign of aerated oil. Now, with a pump that big, generating that much oil pressure, and using oil that thin, if an engine was ever going to pump the pan dry, that should have been it, right?

    But it never happened, and it maintained oil pressure better than most I've seen. The thinner oil will also drain back better, but it will have also passed more oil through the engine, providing better flow/lubrication and cooling. One thing I did do during the build, was I enlarged the drain-back holes in my AFR heads, to double their original area. Was that enough to keep me from pumping the pan dry, due to better drain-back? Maybe, but if that's all it took, then keeping the pan full of oil is not Rocket Science.
    Reply With Quote

    "When it comes to discussing/debating the topic of std volume oil pumps vs high volume oil pumps, we need something more than just opinion and speculation. We need some actual real world data. So, consider the following:

    About a year and a half ago, Car Craft Magazine used a 372ci SBC to do an oil pump volume comparison test. So, we can look at that actual data to see how things stack up. Here are the results using conventional petroleum 30 wt for each test:

    Oil Pump...........Peak HP..............Ave. HP...........Ave. press.

    Std volume/std pressure..............485¦.392...............50 psi

    High volume/High pressure...........481.¦.390..............66 psi

    High volume/std pressure.............477.387................64 psi

    As you can see, surprisingly the std pressure version of the high volume pump made the worst HP of these three small block pumps. It was down 8hp or down 1.6% for peak HP, and down 5hp or down 1.3% for Ave HP. It also provided a 14 psi increase in ave pressure, or a 28% increase in ave pressure.

    But the High volume/high pressure pump was down only 4hp or down .8% for peak HP, and down only 2hp or down only .5% for Ave HP. This one provided a 16 psi increase in ave pressure, or a 32% increase in ave pressure.

    Of course the most important number is the â average  HP loss, NOT the peak HP loss. Because peak is only a single data point, while average is across the whole rpm range being used.

    Only the most hardcore racer could ever notice a 2hp or .5% HP loss, using the high volume/high pressure pump. So, using that pump does NOT cause a significant loss in performance. And the higher volume pump will provide better low rpm oil pressure, and allow for switching to the much better thinner full synthetic oils that are available. More on that below:


    And in the same article, Car Craft also tested different oil viscosities using the High volume/std pressure oil pump. Here are those results:

    Oil.....................Peak HP.Ave. HP.......Ave. press.....Ave. Flow in GPM

    0W10 syn................480.....387..................56.....................7.4

    5W20 syn................479......386..................59.....................7.2

    20W50 syn..............477.......387.................67...................6.5

    30W conventional...475.......384..................67....................6 .1


    The 0W10 is probably thinner than all but the hardest of hardcore racers would care to use. And 20W50 is thickish and somewhat similar to the straight 30W.

    But 30W conventional petroleum oil was used for the oil pump volume test at the top, so lets use that as the main reference here for viscosity comparisons. And that leaves the more reasonable 5W20 synthetic for a quick viscosity comparison.

    The 5W20 made 4hp more peak HP or about .8% more peak HP than the 30W. It also made 2hp more ave HP, or .5% more Ave HP than the 30W. So, HP increases with the thinner oil is not significant here, but it does offset the slight loss of hp from going to a high volume pump in the first place. The thinner 5W20 also drops a little oil pressure, but its still quite reasonable.

    So, a larger volume oil pump loses a tad bit of HP and increases the oil pressure, but the thinner synthetic oil gains a tad bit of HP and decreases the oil pressure. In the end, its all pretty much a wash. So then whats the point of making these changes at all?

    To answer that, we need to look at the average flow in GPM (gallons per minute). The 5W20 flows a whopping 18% more than the straight 30W. So whats the value in that you ask?

    Well, many folks think that pressure = lubrication, but that is simply not the case. Pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. FLOW is the only thing that lubricates, and you get more flow with thinner oil as we just saw above. Lubrication is what is used to separate moving parts, and keep them from touching.

    And increased flow also has another very important advantage. An engine's vital internal components are all DIRECTLY OIL COOLED, but only IN dircetly water cooled. And thinner oil will flow more freely, carrying away more heat, thus providing better cooling for those vital internal components. And of course that extra cooling is even more important in high performance engines.

    So, going to the trouble of achieving almost an extra 20% in flow, is well worth the effort. If someone asks why use a high volume pump, the answer is so that you can maintain reasonable oil pressure with thinner oil. And with thinner oil, you can improve both lubrication and cooling. So, its all good.

    NOTE: To best see those oil temp changes and cooling improvements, you really need to observe that in a running car on the road or on the track. Because trying to observe this during brief dyno pulls, will likely result in you not getting a worthwhile picture of the true potential.

    So, here are some comparison numbers for you from an 830 HP road race engine, on the track:

    15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil temp

    5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil temp


    Here you can see how the thicker oil flowed more slowly through the bearings, thus getting hotter and driving up bearing temps. If an engine is running hot, use a thinner oil to increase flow and increase cooling. And running a high volume oil pump allows you to do that."

    of course theres both bolt on oil pump pick-ups and retention brackets and safety wire bolts

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pio-839061/overview/

    [​IMG]
    big block vs small block chevy oil pump

    the standard big block chevy oil pump has a 3/4" oil pump pick-up that is inserted in the main pump body, NOT THE 5 BOLT LOWER COVER

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    your typical small block oil pump has a 4 bolt cover, a 5/8" pick-up tube diameter and the pick-up presses into the cover , it has the smaller 7 tooth gears, and because the pick-up tube presses into the cover swapping from a standard to a high volume pump, with its longer impeller and hoseing casting, tends to move the pick-up about 1/4" closer to the oil pan floor
    [​IMG]
    your typical big block oil pump has a 5 bolt cover, a 3/4" pick-up tube diameter and the pick-up presses into the pump body , it has the larger more efficient 12 tooth gears and in many cases can be mounted on a small block, but its usually not required
    BIG BLOCK CHEVY 5 BOLT cover pump
    [​IMG]

    the standard SMALL block chevy oil pump has a 5/8" oil pump pick-up that is inserted in the lower oil pump 4 bolt lower gear cover
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    SBC 4 BOLT COVER OIL PUMP
    [​IMG]
    SBC pumps have 7 tooth gears and BBC pumps generally have 12 tooth gears making the flow more consistent
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    http://www.jegs.com/i/Canton-Racing-Pro ... Id=1995258
    [​IMG]

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4306&p=26502&hilit=+safety+wire#p26502

    [​IMG]
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    pick-ups like this one below are less likely to break due to better support

    [​IMG]
    adding a brace and brazing it to the pick-up tube and use loc-tite on the bolt threads helps durability
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1800

    ITS always a good idea to verify the oil pan floor to oil pump pick-up clearance and to braze the pick-up to the oil pump, to reduce the potential for it to come loose.
    [​IMG]
    yes you can MIG ,TIG or TORCH WELD the pick-up but I found BRAZING works the best and is less likely to warp or crack the pump or pick-up
    "how in hell do those twisty, safety wire pliers work?"
    [​IMG]
    well a video should be helpful here! Id also point out that you can buy the wire in several diameters and the thicker sizes are far more difficult to use, home depot sells the 22 gauge and 18 gauge, the 22-24 gauge is what youll use far more commonly, as its much easier to use,both stainless (PREFERED) and galvanized are used, and will work on 95% of the applications on a car your likely to use.

    using anti-seize paste on bolt or stud threads helps prevent future problems

    [​IMG]
    using safety wire pliers




    keep in mind this was on a very high average RPM range engine combo,selected to MAXIMIZE any differences that the oil pump characteristic might effect, on a lower rpm engine the differences would be significantly lower on hp loss at higher rpms



    If you have oil mist or drips of oil exiting the breathers theres potentially several reasons the cause is likely to be a badly designed non baffled breather or a defective PVC valve that's not allowing air flow to be sucked IN thru the breather, , rather than crank case pressure allowing oil mist to exit the breather
    (1) the engines rings are not sealing correctly resulting in higher than ideal crank case pressures.
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/maximizing-piston-to-bore-ring-seal.3897/
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-and-installing-connecting-rods-pistons.247/
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/piston-to-bore-clearance.4630/
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/installing-rings-in-piston-grooves.9490/


    (2) defective PVC valve
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...lve-cover-breather-hole-in-valve-covers.2005/
    http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=4636&p=12451#p12451

    without proper venting an engines internal pressure builds , due to cylinder pressure leaking past the rings,and eventually will cause oil seals or gaskets to leak oil.
    READ THE LINK
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...stalling-the-intake-manifold-distributor.464/

    (3) improper breather design or improper location on the valve cover
    [​IMG]

    http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/52205/10002/-1?parentProductId=763433

    In a properly functioning engine the PVC valve allows engine vacuum to draw fresh outside air into the engine as it operates through the breather,
    pressure in the crank case, you see as blow-bye out the breathers on valve covers is the result of cylinder combustion pressure, or to a far lower degree compression, getting past the ring to bore wall seal,the obvious best answer to reducing it is better ring seal.
    now doing a ring and bearing refresh/and rebuild is just a weekend deal if your set up with the tools and have a place to work, but of course you may need a re-bore and new pistons, if the bores worn. and if thats true it will take longer and get more expensive due to the labor and machine shop costs and parts required, intermittent blow by is frequently the result of minimal ring damage due to detonation

    most installed engines are slightly tilted towards the rear to help oil flow return, to the sump, in the crank case thus the forward 1/3rd of the upper inside roof of the valve covers tends to be a better place to locate breathers and PVC valves to limit oil loss, on most V 8 engines.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2017 at 6:50 PM
  8. DorianL

    DorianL solid fixture here in the forum Staff Member

    Interesting...

    Now those windage tray kits - essentially studs for main caps with stand offs for the windage tray...

    to swap bolts for studs... there is no machining required, right?
     
  9. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    theres no machining required in most cases but keep in mind that theres bolt kits with extended studs and stud kits, if you use the bolts or studs you mount the windage screen about 1/8" out from the arc the rotating assembly makes, use of main cap studs can and do on occasion change the stress loads and MIGHT require a line hone to bring the alignment back to correct.
    about 1993 or so melling changed the standard chevy SB oil pump casting to a MUCH WEAKER CASTING on the standard M55 pumps , THIS MANDATED the use of the stronger and thicker casting 10553 pump in performance applications if you use a melling oil pump or swapping to the MOROSO OIL PUMP

    SHOP CAREFULLY , WHEN YOU GO TO BUY AN OIL PAN<AND ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WILL FIT YOUR CAR CORRECTLY AND ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS ON MATCHING COMPONENTS OR PARTS THAT WON,T FIT

    MILODON,
    http://www.milodon.com/

    CHAMP
    http://www.champpans.com/products/c/oil-pans/

    CANTON,
    https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/category/1501/Chevy-SS--Road-Race-Oil-Pans/1.html

    MOROSO
    http://www.moroso.com/

    AVIAID
    http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbc.html


    STEFS
    http://www.stefs.com/products/oilpans/circletrackwetsump.htm


    HAMBURGERPERFORMANCE
    http://www.hamburgersperformance.com/

    KEVKO
    https://kevko.myshopify.com/

    http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp

    http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/High-Performance/Cast-Iron-Aluminum-Oil-Pumps



    http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Long-Drills/1180.html
    [​IMG]
    MARK VI BLOCK OIL CONNECTIONS
    yes the additives in the the quart of MMO you can add to your crank case oil, do a good job of breaking up and holding in suspension oil sludge and transporting it to the oil filter
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    bracing the oil pump with a milodon vibration brace can increase durability
    [​IMG]

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-2 ... /?rtype=10

    rubber o-rings on distributor can limit oil flow loss in the distributor gear area
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    On oil pans I prefer studs, and an oil pan back plate
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    you might want to Use with P/N 12553058 RH and P/N 12553059 LH oil pan reinforcement plates to distribute the bolt stress on the oil pan rail for 1985 and earlier oil pans P/N 14088501 (LH) and P/N 14088502 (RH).1986 and newer
    related info

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=2726

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2851&hilit=windage+tray

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3449

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1014&p=3831&hilit=+splayed+caps#p3831

    viewtopic.php?f=51&t=125&p=3577&hilit=+studs#p3577

    viewtopic.php?f=53&t=852&p=1311#p1311

    viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4306&p=11353&hilit=pick+up#p11353

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2376&p=8690&hilit=pick+up+braze#p8690
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2017
  10. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    WELL DESIGNED AND PROPERLY INSTALLED BAFFLED OIL PANS,WINDAGE TRAYS AND CRANK SCRAPERS GO A LONG WAY TO INCREASING ENGINE DURABILITY THRU BETTER MORE CONSISTENT OIL FLOW RATES
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    while I generally use stainless 6 or 8 mesh screens theres lots of options that will work just fine, just remember to keep the oil changed regularly or theres some potential for sludge to clog ANY size shrapnel screens
    http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/products/T ... 6T0350W36T
    http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/products/T ... 8S0280W36T
    [​IMG]
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-25026?seid=srese1&gclid=COOf2IODscgCFZKAaQodHWoF1Q
    it should not take a great deal of imagination to see that a broken rocker, lifter or push-rod could dump metalic debris into an oil drain back port that wold rapidly result in increased internal engine damage as a result.
    [​IMG]

    IVE typically used these magnets in an engine, one in the rear oil drain on each cylinder head, one near each lifter gallery drain and 4 in the oil pan sump
    proper magnets trap metallic debris
    SmCo Samarium Cobalt Disc Magnets
    http://www.magnet4less.com/
    many magnets lose their magnetic pull if heated to 200F
    these below won,t

    proper magnets trap metallic debris

    SmCo Samarium Cobalt Disc Magnets
    http://www.magnet4less.com/
    [​IMG]

    http://www.magnet4less.com/product_...ucts_id=254&osCsid=ckl4nevgdrmireotnegg7jcf36

    http://www.magnet4sale.com/smco-magnets-dia-1x3-8-samarium-cobalt-magnets-608-f-temperature/

    Samarium Cobalt MAGNETS HELP
    http://www.magnet4sale.com/smco-disk-magnet-dia-1x1-4-samarium-cobalt-magnets-608-f-temperature/
    magnets are ceramic and glass hard, don,t try to drill or grind them, as they can shatter

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    DUAL REMOTE MOUNT OIL FILTERS CAN MAKE EXTRA FILTRATION FAR EASIER TO INSTALL

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    PARTS DETAIL
    Principal Application: Chevrolet and GMC Trucks (73-93)
    Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
    Service: Lube
    Type: Full Flow
    Media: Paper
    Height: 7.822
    Outer Diameter Top: 3.674
    Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
    Thread Size: 13/16-16
    By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
    Burst Pressure-PSI: 270
    Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
    Nominal Micron Rating: 21

    interesting videos


    notice he states the use of a high volume oil pump, and 8 quart baffled oil pan, helps with the oil flow mods

    http://buydrillbits.com/products/hss/gp2.php?c=AIR


    http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Long-Drills/1180.html

    http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Long-Drills/1180.html

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2017
  11. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    [​IMG]
    notice the one gear with the shaft is driven by a connecting drive shaft from the distributor.
    the small block oil pumps have only 7 tooth gears, and generally use 5/8" pick-up tubes that seat into a removable base plate, while big block pumps use a 3/4" diameter oil pump pick up tube that seats into the pump body itself

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    you should NEVER shim an oil pumps pressure relief spring as it may prevent the piston it holds from moving down its bore far enough to allow it to open the bay-pass passage, that allows the pressure on the high pressure side of the oil pump from bleeding off back into the intakes side of the oil pump

    [​IMG]
    while helical cut gears will run smoother ,
    ( ESPECIALLY WITH THE STOCK 7 tooth SBC oil pump)
    as you potentially have 2 or three gear teeth in various stages of gear tooth contact
    (depends on the angle of tooth engagement)
    and yes the design will reduce a tendency to produce a pressure pulse, I have not seen this as a major issue.
    simply swapping to the standard volume and pressure BIG BLOCK 12 tooth oil pump in a SBC engine all but eliminates the pulse and pressure and volume issues a sbc oil pump has.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    adding "ST" to the end of the existing melling SBC OIL PUMP part number denotes the helical gear set option

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Many pressure relief springs have one end larger than the other end,the spring always mounts with the larger end facing away from the bypass piston, if installed reversed the piston can,t move far enough to completely open the bypass circuit passage and pressures skyrocket, under some conditions

    [​IMG]
    heres a minor oil pump modification , that Ive done for decades on BIG BLOCK OIL PUMPS
    its not mandatory in fact theres little evidence that it helps a great deal, but Ive done it for decades and if you closely examine used pumps I think youll see a difference in gear wear, I know its never hurt and it seems to reduce wear and resistance to spinning the pump.
    on the standard chevy oil pumps the small block pumps have 7 tooth gears the larger big block pump design has 12 gears, the larger 12 tooth gear big block pump can usually be bolted onto many small block engines, the standard volume big block oil pump works great on the high performance small block engine IF ITS MATCHED to a 7-8 quart baffled oil pan, and a windage tray.
    theres a DRIVEN GEAR with a shaft that extends up to the distributor drive shaft and theres a coaster gear that simply spins on the shaft in the pump housing , Ive always drilled 1/16" holes alternating between 1/3rd down and 1/3 third up from each end of the coaster gear in the base of each tooth groove, so theres a single small oil hole in the base of each groove between the teeth, this effectively forces pressurized oil from 5-to6 small oil feed holes to the support shaft on the coaster gears interior, in the big block oil pump coaster gears , this provides a constant pressurized oil flow to the coaster gears center,axle, and its support shafts surface, a better modified picture showing the drilled holes you drill might be useful, as it at least in theory reduces friction loads on the oil pump coaster gear.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    another mod, ILL TALK ABOUT BELOW, is to drill a 3/4" deep hole, about 1/8" in diameter so about halve of the drilled hole is along the drive shaft wall and about 1/2 is in the gear wall, along the wall of the hole wall where the drive shaft is force fit into the gear, then tap in a roll in of the correct size, this insure the shaft cant spin inside the gear, and cause a huge loss in oil pressure.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    NOTICE THE PINNED DRIVE GEAR

    ROLL PINS ARE DIRT CHEAP!, just be sure to seat them at least .050 below the gears lower surface and not drill the hole completely thru the gear

    pinning the driven gear,is usually done on race engines especially road race engines, where you can expect prolonged higher rpm running, its done for increased durability, as under constant high heat and loads gears did occasionally slip or spin on the driven shaft they were press fit on, remember one gears driving the other , ones being spun by the distributor drive gears the other spins and coasts on a axle shaft it simply rotates on, as its teeth mesh with the driven gear, if that driven shaft slips inside the driven gear which can happen if crap like a needle bearing from a roller rocker gets sucked into the pump gears, and jam,s the teeth momentarily , the driven gears spin loose and you get zero oil pressure, roll pin the gears and it might scar the teeth but you still maintain oil pressure and it chews up the minor metallic debris and passes it to the oil filter.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/315-piece- ... 67682.html
    [​IMG]
    obviously you can pre align the slot to accept the slot inside the distributor gear in the base of the distributor to allow the distributor get the rotor to face any direction when seated
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    remember the oil pump drive only seats in two locations 180 degrees apart but it can be lined up anyplace you want with a 18" long large flat blade screw driver prior to installing the distributor from the top of the engine rather easily before you re-seat the distributor, but as the distributor gear teeth mesh the distributor will turn the rotor about 15 degrees
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2016
  12. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    hooking up an oil cooler can be beneficial, reading sub links can be critical
    but before you go out an invest in an oil cooler take the time to install a dependable oil pressure and oil temperature gauge to find out what your dealing with as far as oil temps go, and don,t be overly surprised if you have a 7-8 quart oil pan if you find your oil temps remain reasonable without an oil cooler,
    (the same might not be true for your transmission fluid)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    IF you've wondered why I suggest buying and using a well designed BAFFLED oil pan with 7-8 quart capacity its to prevent the oil from uncovering the oil pump pick-up under performance use.
    without control baffles oil sloshes away from the oil pump pick-up

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Chevrolet Performance 14091563
    Left (Driver Side) Dipstick Plug
    Chevrolet Performance 9421743

    Right (Passenger Side) Dipstick Plug

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=6327&p=19878#p19878

    viewtopic.php?f=57&t=176

    viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3144&p=16458#p16458
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-1 ... dia/images
    [​IMG]
    if you install an oil cooler like this that has larger AN#8 or 1/2" lines and a powered auxiliary electric fan its going to far more effective and less restrictive
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-3818/media/images
    [​IMG]
    if you install an oil cooler like this that has small AN#6 or 3/8" lines and no auxiliary electric fan its going to far less effective and more restrictive
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2016
  13. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    OIL SWEAT - Re: oil system mods that help

    Grumpy - You mentioned,
    I am re-using my Milodon Premium double-roller timing set, 19K miles with hardly any signs of wear and the chain is still tight. I had to machine .052" from the back of the crank gear to get the gears in alignment. To make installing the gear easier, I held it over my propane heater for a few minutes. As it warmed up it started sweating --- OIL! I continued heating the gear and it was now fully coated with oil and dripping on the floor. It was as if I just pulled it out of a container of oil. I have heard about these miracle lubricants and oil additives that "actually penetrate the pores of the metal", but this surprised the hell out of me.
    I also did warm the chain with my heat gun, but I sprayed it with Liquid Wrench chain lube instead. Mike.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    well I'm glad SOMEONE reads and gains something from my years of experience, I've gained and can use the tips I post!
    and yes its always nice to have some one post verification , that what I've posted is useful and valid
     
  15. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    Nice tips Grumpy.
    Some apply to Pontiac V8 I have used prior 1st hand myself.

    If you find a link of how to add cavatation grooves to the Pontiac V8 pump let me know.
    Only Butler seems to know exact.
    Takes 9-12 gallons per minute flow to 20+ gallons per minute I have read.
    M54 F. 80PSI Ram Air 5 & SD455 Pumps.
    What I have and use.
    Also have a M54 D 60 Psi RA 4 pump for daily driving street use.
     
  16. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

  17. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    I was just reading that article on my own Grumpy.

    The key is finding the 1/4" thick cast iron bottom cover.
    Warrior Racing products had them 20 years ago.
    I used 2 from them.
    I think it was original made by Dyna Gear in Downers Grove, IL.
    One of the 455's I brought home last year has the Dyna Gear 60psi M54 D pump with 1/4" inch thick cast cover.
    The stock Stamped Steel Pontiac cover is too thin to Ball Mill.

    Bultler price on his Pro Blueprint. Pump is not too bad.
     
  18. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    Holy Crap Grumpy..
    I was just reading down your own type written Info here....
    The Classic Chevy 2-quart oil filter is only caple of flowing 11 Gallons per minute.. !
    Its a big oil Filter.
    I bought 3 K& N Versions of the Chevy 2 quart truck filters.
    For the 410 I never finished yet.

    The Pontiac M54 D & F pumps both flow 12-13 gallons per minute.
    Assume 30 W oil used during testing.

    THE PONTIAC OIL FILTER IS THE RESTRICTION TO OIL FLOW.
    ALL CHEVIES TOO.
     
  19. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    So every Performance engine should have a Dual Filter Remote oil system.
    Pontiac V8 455 Especially .

    What are Your thoughts of the Old Top Fuel Dragster Remote oil filter Grumpy ?
    Has a 1.000 " inch threaded inlet.
     
  20. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    I got asked if packing the oil pump with grease is a good idea to insure the oil pump primes, well like most bits of internet wisdom, theres a few points many guys won,t tell you or simply don,t understand!


    [​IMG]
    Yes its a good idea to coat the internal gears in any oil pump,
    after carefully checking clearances and removing and debris with a light coating of 50% oil/50% moly assembly lube ,
    and prefill the oil filter with oil,prior to engine start up on your first start-up,
    as it helps the oil pump prime faster.,
    but don,t over do it and pack the pump full of grease
    , or use the wrong grease!

    as on start-up its pumped directly into the oil filter and in large amounts will reduce oil flow or cause the pressure by-pass valve to allow debris past the oil filter.
    MOLY assembly lube will be very quickly disolved and suspended in the oil flow, it coats all the moving surfaces with a protective film that embeds in the micro flaws lowering friction.
    Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) has been used for decades in lubricating pastes and greases because it is slippery and forms a protective coating on metal parts.


    http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/molybdenum_disulfide_characteristics.htm
    Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.

    [​IMG]

    The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.

    This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance.
    [​IMG]
    This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.



    Eventually, there is metal to metal contact, which damages these moving parts and creates large amounts of heat. Fortunately, this is not the case with some lubricants.The layer of moly that forms on these moving surfaces can withstand pressures of 500,000 psi, without being squeezed out.

    Engineers and scientists have tried for years to use Moly in motor oils but they had been unsuccessful because they could not find a way to keep Moly in suspension. Once Moly was put into suspension it would gradually settle out. It was easy to see it come out of suspension because a black sludge would collect on the bottom of the oil containers. In engines it would settle to the bottom of the crankcase or clog oil pathways and filters.

    Engineers have overcome these obstacles. They have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn’t filtered out. Since that time theproduct has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today’s engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
    ASSEMBLY LUBE USED ON CAMS AND LIFTERS ROCKERS< BEARINGS ETC. like CRANE CAM LUBE, has molybdenium disulfide in assembly lube, that helps maintain a strong heat resistant high pressure lubricating support film on sliding surfaces,BUT assembly lube is NOT INTERCHANGEABLE WITH MOLY AXLE GREASE


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    BTW Ive seen guys advise the use of lithium axle grease as bearing assembly lube on cams,
    lifters rockers and bearings occasionally, at times , this is VERY BAD ADVICE ,
    ITS SIMPLY the wrong lubricant to be used,
    when guys substitute white lithium bearing grease for moly assembly lube,
    (white lithium bearing grease)
    is generally not automotive oil soluble,
    its a soap base grease, that clumps up like old peanut butter in the oil pan,
    and it quickly plugs oil passages, in lifters and, clogs filter mediums in oil filters,
    and can and does completely clog shrapnel screens causing oil to,
    fail to drain back into the oil pan sump, and it can and will clog oil pump pick-up screens

    EXAMPLE
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017

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