OMG I cracked my head!!!

R

racprops

Well-Known Member
I CAN NOT BELIEVE A MAJOR, world renown company like automotive company named ARP would make such a piece of crap stud like the one that just cracked my cylinder head…

WHAT were they thinking?? How many cylinder heads have the stupid insane studs have been cracked by these.

And the package came with no warning or torque specs, NOTHING…

I am trying to find out if this crack can be welded up…Can this cast iron stud boss be welded and be as good as new? I hold ARP responsible for this mistake.

Otherwise the head will need replacement, which mean a good core 193 head with swirl ports and push rod guild holes, a full valve job, perhaps valve guilds, machine valve guild for special valve seals, and a ceramic coating….

And how do I reuse my copper head gaskets?? I will have to take both heads off to have them machine the bosses flat for a stud with a hex head.

Rich
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Why did the shop NOT machine the stud bosses flat for a guild plates??
Because MY heads came with push rod guilds built in...See:

It seems only VERY few companies make these studs like the ones with the hard stop ring, even then they are also almost as bad.
I told them I wanted to run full roller rockers and they put in these cheap style studs as my heads do not need guild plates, and the can only get these cheap studs in stock Chevy head size.

I complained that there was not enough to safely run the roller rockers and was told again and again I just needed a taller lock bolt…
When I tried them I was right and they at last ordered these ARP studs….

I know how GREAT ARP are, so never gave any thought they would not work.

And tried to torque them to the standard 50 Foot pounds, They would not torque down, they instead split the boss.

I had noticed when I was removing the cheap studs they were NOT locked down good and tight…warning sign number one.
Second I could NOT find 1.75 studs like those cheap studs. They were only able to get these style studs from APR…At triple the cost of the cheap ones. Warning sign number two.

EVERY one makes studs with hex nut bases at the point where the stud hits the head.

SO what they SHOULD have done was machine the tops of my bosses FLAT FOR such studs with flat nuts to lock done correctly. Normal for heads without push rods guided heads.

So I was told I can reuse my upgraded copper head gaskets, so I will break both heads loose and take them back and say CLEARLY Machine the tops of my stud bosses for Guild plates. Once it is welded, if that can be done....???

And/or replace the cracked head first.

And then we can fit the correct taller studs.

Either with washers to stand in for the guild plates or without them and even a slightly taller studs.

ARP Part number is: 070-APJ2.500-1SB sold as:
ARP 8740 Chromoly Stud Stud Length: 2.5" Price is $11.49 EACH so a fill set of 16 can run $183.84.

AND that part number seems to no longer be any good on APR's web site...seems THEY stopped making and selling them themselves....wonder why??

Rich
 

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I THINK YOU MAY HAVE SELECTED /INSTALLED THE WRONG ROCKER STUDS,
I'VE NEVER SEEN ROCKER STUDS THAT LOOK LIKE THOSE.
on most heads you have the stud bosses milled flat and use rocker studs similar to these with, adjustable big block chevy guide plates

adjustable big block chevy guide plates - Google Shopping

www.google.com www.google.com
 
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I figured that out, but that is what the Shop did and what they gave me, until I tried torquing them to 50FP and it split the boss I was not fully aware of the danger of those studs.

So I need answers to two questions:

Can the head be saved??

And how do I reused my copper head gaskets?

From what I have read on the internet it looks like a ruined head.

Rich
 
So I need answers to two questions:

Can the head be saved??

probably, ask your machine shop to look it over, if its aluminum, its frequently a simple weld & machining job
if its cast iron, its more difficult but it can probably be BRAZED and re-machined , it depends on the extent of damage of course

And how do I reused my copper head gaskets?

simply clean and inspect, if undamaged, you spray with copper coat spray, on both side and reinstall once the gaskets tacky,
only after the first layer of copper sprays partly dried
then resprayed and installed, and heads torqued in 3 stages
i HAVE NEVER YET HAD A HEAD GASKET LEAK ISSUE USING THIS PROCESS WITH SOLID COPPER HEAD GASKETS IN OVER 35 YEARS

From what I have read on the internet it looks like a ruined head.

it depends on the extent of damage of course, but ask your machine shop you might be amazed at what they can do to save the head

btw thats one reason ALUMINUM heads are preferred besides light weight and lower tendency toward detonation,
ALUMINUMS very easy to weld and re-machine

Welding cast iron can make a preacher cuss.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/welding-cast-iron.html
garage.grumpysperformance.com

block crack?

I found these pictures posted on a different forum and the owner of the block with a question asking if the big block ,block he got a deal on, but having the cracked accessory bolt thread hole in that block, he was wondering if the block was trash or salvageable? now if for some reason like to...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
 
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I went with the Iron heads as they do not make 193s with swirl ports in Aluminum and for what I read my iron heads are better for my MPG engine, after all these are heat engines, and keeping it in the chamber and out of the water makes sense.

"The 193s are fine for really low-rpm torque head for builds where emissions and mileage are concerned."

At this point only one stud boss is cracking, I felt things were wrong when I could not torque it down and on the second pull saw the crack appear.

At this point I am taking the heads off and expect them to fix the crack clean all my head bolts of the sealant and mill all the bosses flat for normal studs, and provide the studs.

AND NO CHARGE.

Rich

So can this be fixed??
 

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Here is what I found a few years ago,

"The 193/L05 heads are known as TBI head will actually do better than the vortec up through about 3,500 rpm and the Vortec will really only pull ahead above 4,500 enough to be noticeable. As for low-end torque the TBI head has it all over the vortec.

The 193's would be considered a standard small block type head set up. You could do no machining, toss a good set of standard diameter springs (that could handle the lift and avoid float) and be done with it and handle all kinds of lift into the 500-600 range. Simple.

The vortecs are a different story. The way they are produced, there is a clearance issue between the retainer and the top of the valve guide seal - so when you get above the mid 400's in lift you run the risk of that retainer smacking into the top of the seal/guide. The older sbc heads dont have this problem. ALso, the stock vortec springs are a smaller diameter than a standard older sbc valve spring. So, you can just take a valve spring for ex off of another head that has a 1.43 diameter and toss it on a vortec head with a 1.29 diameter unless they machine the seat so that the larger spring will fit correctly.

One option for alot of the older standard heads was to just leave the springs alone and run a big cam, or toss a set of aftermarket or z28 springs with a higher pressure/or different installed height to handle to higher lift - just swap springs, no machine work.

For the vortecs, you have only a few options - you can have the guides machined down so that the clearance becomes larger between the retainer and guide. You can have the seat opened up to accomodate a larger, stiffer old style spring. You can use a stock diameter vortec spring (beehive type) and a lower profile retainer that will allow you the increase lift (no machining) because they eliminate that clearance problem.

In my case, I opted for the beehive type spring/retainer combo only because if I decided to go another route with heads, I could take them off, swap the stock springs and retainers right back on and sell them as stock, or if I ended up where I had a problem and had to swap a head for some reason, I don't have to have any machining done to the new head.

NOTE It is very common and popular to have them machined to accept earlier, standard type springs because then it opens up a larger selection of springs/combos you can choose from because you would be able to swap almost any spring/combo onto them that you choose. Either way the bottom line is that if you go about either of these choices, you will gain the ability to run the increased lift without a problem if done correctly.

One more note - the vortecs run a self aligning rocker arm. If you are going to run anything bigger than a 1.5 arm, I would suggest machining the push rod holes on the heads. It is suggested to have them drilled to a 1 inch opening to avoid interference with pushrods if you are running a larger rocker.

And if you decide to swap to a standard non-aligning rocker then you have to also change to guideplates. Trust me, I tried it without guideplates or machining the pushrod holes - not a good idea."


SO based on ALL of that I kept my 193s....

Rich
 
So heads are removed and will be taken to shop.

What do I use to clean the copper spray off the copper gaskets and the block??

I am thinking lacquer thinner??

Rich
 
I would expect that to work, or acetone should also work.. If they tarnish, then some scotchbrite and clean again with thinner or acetone just before spraying with copper coat.
 
UPDATE:

Called APR bolts and asked for the top man, told about the studs cracking my rocker stud pedestal.

He said WTF...they are NOT rocker arm studs!! They are head studs for block TO heads studs and thus are not torques INTO the block just screwed in snugly and the the head's nut IS torqued.

The shop said they ordered these FROM ARP directly...

Well the good news is no fuss no problem he is ordering up a good core replacement head and will redo all of it, a full on valve job, machine the valve stem guilds for the better valve seals, and machine the pedestals FOR guild plates....and ceramic coat the chamber and valves...

I will be made whole again.

Rich
 
It seems they are trying to make things right for you so you have a good shop thats going to stand behind his work and everyone learned a lesson
 
that's great too see the shop stand behind the work, and own up to a simple mistake they made!
that's RATHER RARE in my experience in dealing with machine-shops
I had one shop I dealt with ,throw a set of ported aluminum heads complete with aluminum rocker arms,
and titanium retainers, in a caustic soda bath over night,
that totally destroyed the heads, they said they would buy me a new set of stock chevy bare castings ...
the difference in cost to replace the parts & damage done, was several thousand dollars even back in the 1980s
 
I wonder how much time the shop spent researching stud heights and thread sizes to come up with that....and how relieved they might have felt to find it? Oh my goodness.....oops slaps us soooo hard sometimes. It is amazing to me they have the integrity to make you whole.
 
Well as I paid with a credit card I was going to take it back and use the funds to have someone else fix the job...and week one and they have NOT found a replacement head.

Rich
 
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