parts sources for building a kick butt caddy

grumpyvette

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http://www.500cid.com/Aluminum%20heads% ... 20page.htm

http://www.500cid.com/On-Line%20Catalog ... atalog.pdf

http://www.500cid.com/On-Line%20Catalog ... atalog.pdf

http://www.chrfab.com/Engines.htm

http://www.kanter.com/p17-can.html

http://www.cad500parts.com/catalog/index.htm

http://www.500cid.com/Tech Info.htm

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/heavy ... 73_472.pdf

http://www.500cid.com/Home.htm

http://www.500cid.com/Tech%20Info%20for ... ersion.doc

http://www.chrfab.com/Engines.htm

check some of the links, 400hp/500 ft lbs is easy to get,redline depends on components used but stock 5000 rpm is about max

this cam
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CADILLAC&Year=1970&Engine_Size=368-500 C.I.&partNumber=1020631&partType=camshaft

and this intake


Cadillac 472-500 V8
Performer Cadillac (idle-5500 rpm)
This Performer is designed for 1968-76 Cadillac 472 and 500 cubic-inch engines. For either square- or spread-bore carbs, #2115 is the first intake designed specifically for high-performance Cadillacs using standard heads. Like all Edelbrock Performers, this manifold increases torque and horsepower from idle to 5500 rpm. The broad power band is ideal for high-performance street and engine swap applications. Specs on this non-EGR manifold include a carb pad height that’s 3" taller than stock. Dropped divider wall evens air/fuel ratio throughout the rpm range. Stock air conditioning compressor will not fit.


Performer Cadillac .....#2115*

work well together
parts are available
http://www.powerpro2000.com/lb_cadillac.htm

http://www.performanceunlimited.com/documents/engineweights.html


101_0132.JPG


BTW CADDY BLOCK HUGGER HEADERS
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/472-500-C ... ,4645.html
 
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MTS single plane aluminum intake manifold
  • The factory Q-jet works good on the Edelbrock. It does NOT seem to work very well on the single plane even with rejetting. Reversion from the huge secondaries on the single plane may be the problem.
  • Multiple sizes and types of carburetors were tried. Best torque and horsepower with the large chamber heads was with an out-of-the-box 750 Holley. Best by 20 horsepower. The large chamber heads flowed only 710 cfm MAX measured through the carburetor at 5200 rpm under load on the dyno. Larger carbs up to 1000 cfm were tried and ALL lost horsepower and torque.
  • The long stroke Cadillac, whether 4.300" stock or 4.600" stroker, needs plenty of cam. Several cams have been tried. For any type of performance use, a minimum of 234-244 degrees intake duration at 0.050" tappet rise with as much lift as you can get, works well. This cam will peak at 5100 rpm but still have good torque at 3000 rpm. With really good heads, add 10 degrees or 244-254 degrees intake duration. Stock heads and stock valves only need about 220-230 degrees intake duration. Anything bigger will not flow any more air because of head flow limits.
  • Engine size does not affect HP as much as torque. Engine size DOES affect torque. Shocking as this sounds, A 350 cubic inch engine with good flowing heads will out horsepower a 550 cubic inch engine with poor flowing heads. The 550 ci engine will out torque the 350 at low to mid RPM. TORQUE is what makes the car go. The Cadillac has poor flowing stock heads so you have to maximize torque and help the horsepower under 5000 rpm. This is why the Cadillac is generally limited to 5000 RPM.
  • Stock rocker arm stands are prone to breakage at over 100 lbs of valve spring seat pressure. This light spring pressure limits RPM to about 4600. More radical cams or more rpm require more valve spring pressure. This requires aftermarket rocker arm assemblies. MTS and others have some excellent ones that will take high spring loads. The heavy rocker arms require a minimum of 130 lbs of seat pressure. Beehive conical springs work best to counter the harmonics that cause premature valve float. With a normal non-beehive 130 lb spring we were on the verge of valve float at 5100 rpm. Higher spring pressure can wipe out the cam lobe of the Cadillac cam blank because of its small diameter. Beehive springs can extend this to perhaps 5500-5700 rpm with the same pressure. You better have really good heads to flow enough air at that rpm to still make horsepower at that rpm.
  • With aftermarket rocker arms you cannot use stock valve covers. You have to use tall ones for clearance.
  • The factory HEI distributor works fine if it is modified slightly. The stock advance curve is about as screwed up as any I have ever seen. For performance engines with over 9:1 compression ratio, the curve that seems to work well is 8 degrees initial and 25 degrees mechanical advance at 3000 rpm. For low compression engines under 9.0:1 CR, use 12-14 degrees of initial advance, and 20-22 degrees mechanical advance all in at 2500 rpm. This will give the motor low speed pep. Plug the vacuum advance. They over-advance and cause pinging. This distributor tip also works well in stock applications.
[edit] Dyno results

With the wimpy large chamber heads and Pontiac valves the best observed and uncorrected pulls were:

  • 549 ft/lbs torque @ 3200 rpm, yet still made 502 ft/lbs @ 4600 rpm
  • 442 hp @ 4500 rpm, and still showing 438 @ 5100 rpm
[edit] Another example
The following dyno results were from a 518 cid Cadillac engine. 10.5 to 1 compression, hydraulic roller cam with 246 degrees duration at 0.050" and 0.620" lift. Single pattern cam on a 112 degree + 2 degree LSA. CNC ported MTS aluminum heads and single plane intake. MTS 1.7 to 1 rockers and a Troy Patterson 1100 CFM 4150 carb. MTS ignition system.

Peak HP (620) occurred at 5200 RPM and peak torque (643) occurred at 4700 RPM. At 2600 RPM (the lowest rpm a reading could be obtained), torque was 543 and by 2900 it was 575 and at 5400 RPM was at 590.9. That's a pretty flat torque "curve". The average torque from 2600 rpm to 5300 was 606.6. This engine was run on 89 octane fuel. Timing was set at 30 degrees btdc where prior engines run on 93 liked about 6* more. This engine would also idle at 600 rpm.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Cadillac_engine_knowledge
 
The last Caddy 500- 518 ci V8 is A Hellcat Kiler Grumpy....LOL.

A warmed over Caddy 500 would not need much rear gearing or Low Gears.
3.08-3.23 :1 would provide performance on the street with 26-28 inch tall rear tires.
I can see $3,000-5,000 outlay building a nice 472-500 .
Would not dissapoint on the Street.

I have heard the Cadillac 390's are Strong Runners too.
They are Rev Happy on the street with 3-7/8" crankshaft stroke.

Not sure if Caddy has poor flowing stock heads.
4.300" crankshaft Stroke has high piston speeds....peak volumetric efficiency occurs at a lower RPM.
Engineering done intentional .
 
Its an Election Year 2016.
All eyes on Democrats out.
Gone...Bam Gone...
Trump In.

I think Engine Swaps unconventional may be in Grumpy.
 
Unless Crane cams is supplying the Beehive valvesprings I myself would steer clear of them.
Single with a Dampner.
Or a set of High Silicone Chromium Vandium Steel Dual Valvesprings.
I am a fan of Titanium valvespring retainers.
Must be treated as a Maintence Item.
Manley & Crower Ti Retainers are the Very Best Made.
 
Large Cubic Inch Engines like the Caddy 472-500 + Ci can really take advantage of Racing Level Holley 4-bbl carbs Grumpy.
AED & Bo Laws BLP in Florida come to mind.
Its the Venturi Booster design & Metering blocks used with adjustable air bleeds & 4-corner idle circuits....Cost Real $$$&$ Yes.
 
watching this video and taking a few notes might prove helpful
I find that many guys just don,t watch the videos or take the time and effort to research the linked info.
you might be amazed at what chasing a few links and making a few phone calls can do for your projects.
now you may have a totally different goal in mind,
but you can pick and choose only after you understand all your options
 
watching this video and taking a few notes might prove helpful
I find that many guys just don,t watch the videos or take the time and effort to research the linked info.
you might be amazed at what chasing a few links and making a few phone calls can do for your projects.
now you may have a totally different goal in mind,
but you can pick and choose only after you understand all your options

I watched Grumpy.
I think the Cadillac 500 is a Neat Engine too.

I never knew Cloyes or no one else makes a True Roller Race Dual Chain 3-piece timing set for a 472- 500 Caddie.
So it that alone limits to safe zone RPM engine range.
Did the math in the past and with a 4.300" stock stroke Safe zone piston speed is reached at 5,000 rpms or so.

I expected more HP in the video.
Cam seems mild.
230 @.050".
Could use a Bigger cam & widen lobe separation angle.

The Heads I think are holding the Caddie back.
Its a lot of cubes to feed 529 ci !.

365 cfm ported Heads.
Really need closer to 475-500 cfm heads with a massive engine like shown & 6,000 Rpm cutoff.

Has to be an expensive engine to build like they shown.
Somewhere areound $30K my guess.
 
Think dollar for dollar spent a Big Block Chevy Wins.

Pontiac 455 too.
Been checking out some New DCI RAV - 5 Heads online.
No special one off RAV original Cam needed.
Uses convential Pontiac V8 Intake & exhaust port layouts.
One off fabbed headers needed & their intakes.
380 cfm @.600 lift & 485 cfm @ 1.000" lift stock as delivered.

Pump gas mild cam around 800 Hp had.
1400-1500 HP Race cam Race Gas on a 455-480 ci.

Be a $21K engine to build pump gas.
 
365 cfm x 2 = 730 Hp

Big Engine in Street Trim the bored .090 over Caddie 500 to a 529 ci.

Engine parameters do matter for Race Power !
 
Also was a great test of Diamond Pistons Grumpy working at Danger Zone piston Speeds ( seemed safe to all but you & me at 6,000 crank rpms).
No Blow by at all in the Video.

The Young Tech guy talking about the Diamond piston features Called the Gas Accumulator Groove machined in Wrong !
He said it was the Detonation Groove !.
TV Show for Ya Lol !
 
I looked up the stock Cadillac Iron 500 ci heads Grumpy.
Numbers are not too bad but it is a Big Ci engine.
Small Valves used 2.000" intake face & 1-5/8" exhaust.

E/I ratio is Good at .200-.400" lifts... .71 : 1 average & .67 : 1 at .500"

Clearly the MTS Heads are better.
But 450 -480 HP in theory can be had with stock iron production heads non ported.
 
This is very timely. A farmer on the other side of town has a ‘70 Eldorado with a 500 cu in motor. It was retired to the yard after it wouldn’t pass inspection with too many problems. It’s mine, I just have to beat the scrap yard’s offer of $200.
 
you would be really REALLY silly to not buy it for $300 or so, hell I would buy it for $300 in a second if it was close enough to tow here!
 
Well then if I Don’t end up doing anything with it by next fall then you can have it for that and we can figure out a cheap way to send it to a drop off depot in your area.
 
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