Planning a new 383 build that is now going to be a 400

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Planning a new 383 build!

Postby busterrm » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:35 pm
Here is the build sheet so far, still haven't made up our mind on the roller cam.
1. New Chevy Bowtie Block 4bolt roller block
a. bore 4.03
b. stroke 3.75
c. 1 pc RMS
2. AFR 195 elim Alum heads
a. 65 cc chambers
b. 2.05 int valve
c. 1.6. exh valve
d. spring/valves for 600 lift
e. closed pressure 135 lbs
f. open pressure 325 lbs at 600 lift
3. Rotating assembly
a. Scat cast steel crank
b. Mahle forged pistons
c. Lunati 6" I beam stroker rods w/7/16 capscrews
d. All bearings are Clevite
e. Rings are Hasting chromemoly
4. Roller cam
a. Crower 0471 hyd roller
b. Lunati 60131 solid roller
c. Crane HR-234/365-2S-12.90 IG hyd roller
5. Roller lifters
a. OE roller lifters by crane
b. spider plate and alignment donuts
c. pushrods ?
6. Intake and Carb
a. Edelbrock RPM performer
b. Holley HP 750 vac sec.
Thats what we have so far! My only questions are when it comes to the pushrods with the OEM style roller lifters will the pushrods be close to OEM specs or longer, what do you think? What do you think will be a more streetable cam? The truck is stock weight 1990 Chevy 1/2 ton silverado, 700r4 shiftkit, Coan 2800 stall converter, 373 rear gear. Whichever cam is chosen will have to have the step nose machined on the gear end for the retainer plate to bolt up. Any help or opinions would be great guys.
Bob
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Okay, camshafts have changed! Tommy and I are about to decide on the camshaft, probably will be using Crower 350 series high lift hydraulic roller 00467LM.
Specs are:
Adv duration: 273/284
050 duration: 221/230
Lift at valve 525/544
LSA 110
IVC 106

The roller rockers will be CompCams Magnum rockers with 1.52 ratio, so the lift numbers will be 532/551 adjusted.
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

I may have to shim the springs to bring the pressures up on the heads. I am sure I will need some suggestions on the carb, ignition, and misc other stuff during the build process.
We may have to buy the 75 cc chamber heads and mill them to bring the SCR and DCR within pump gas limits rather than using the 65 cc heads I have listed.
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Oh yeah, the vehicle is a 90 Chevy Silverado 1/2 ton stepside. Already has a 700r4 shift kitted, Coan stall 2800, and rear gear is 3.73. I don't know the weight of the truck yet. I will have to research that some.
 

mathd

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

why not a forged crank and cast piston? if its not going to run boost and nitrous thats what id be doing.
Also i like 5.7@ rod on a stroker 383 hard to tell why probably because of the lower dcr
I used Crane aluminum roller rocker and am not really happy with them, they have a little side play in them.
For a light car id use a holley double pumper and 7am not sure about the cfm but 700 cfm could be enough also with manual choke if possible, i can be wrong..
As for ignition have MSD all around, if not then accell.
id probably use a cam with more duration like 230-250 @ .050 lift but for a truck 221-230 will be fine.
All the rest look fine, just use some chromoly push rods.

Will be an interesting build :)
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Glad you said that about the crank and pistons, I guess I didn't take that into consideration. Hmmm, bring the price of the crank up but will drop the pistons price down. Glad Indycars got me to post it to the forum. I guess I missed that!
Not going to use crane rockers though, going to use compcams magnum rockers.
The cam is still not writen in stone, but this truck won't see 6000 rpms ever, and probably not 5500 very often. It's going to be a a intown driver on weekends and saturday night fun machine. Probably won't see the strip at all either. So I was trying to keep the tq/hp around that idea.
I planned on using chromemoly pushrods also.
I am not sure about the 750 carb yet, may use a 700. The ignition is in the works too, I am thinking MSD streetfire at least. I have been looking at the rod length last day or so also, might opt for the 5.7. Dunno yet!
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

5. Roller lifters

a. OE roller lifters by crane
b. spider plate and alignment donuts
c. pushrods ?

when you go to select rockers theres a tendency to try and save money , thinking roller tip rockers are similar to full roller rockers, but in my experience roller tip rockers are really not worth the money. most sets cost about $90-$120 and they don,t reduce friction much over the stock rockers, a true roller rocker can frequently free up 15-20 hp in reduced friction,and before you select a rocker with a ratio like 1.6:1 to get a bit more valve lift too allow more air flow, youll want to carefully check valve train geometry and clearances
Chevy V8 bore & stroke chart

Chevy V8 Crankshaft Journal Sizes

Here's a list of Chevy V-8 crankshaft journal sizes. All journal sizes are given in "STANDARD" sizes. Your crankshaft may have been cut down in size previously by a machine shop. Make sure your crank will work in the block you have. Blocks were made for each crank main journal size. If you are putting a "small" or "medium" journal smallblock crank into a "medium" or "large" journal smallblock block you will need crank bearing "spacers" or use special "thick" bearings available from aftermarket suppliers.

Chevy Smallblock V8 Crankshaft Journal Sizes


Gen.I, "Small Journal"
265...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
283...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
302...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"
327...Mains-2.30"-Rods-2.00"



Gen.I, "Medium Journal", includes "Vortec" 305 and 350 thru '98
262...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
267...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
302...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
305...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
307...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
327...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
350...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"



Gen.I, "Large Journal"
400...Mains-2.65"-rods-2.10"



Non-production Gen.I combination, using Gen.I 400 crank in Gen.I 350 block
383...400 crank, Mains cut to 2.45"-Rods-2.10"



Non-production Gen.I combination, using Gen.I 350 crank in Gen.I 400 block
377..."Spacer" or "thick" main bearings with 350 crank-Rods-2.10"



Gen.II, "Medium Journal", includes "L-99" 265, "LT-1" 350, "LT-4" 350
265...Mains-2.45"-rods-2.10"
305...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"
350...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"



Non-production Gen.II combination, using Gen.II 265 "L-99" crank in Gen.II 350 block
302...Mains-2.45"-Rods-2.10"



Gen.III, includes '97-2005 "LS-1" Corvette, Firebird, Camaro
345...Mains-2.558"-Rods-2.10"



Corvette "ZR-1", DOHC, "LT-5"
350...Mains-2.76"-Rods-2.10"


CID BORE STROKE
262 = 3.671" x 3.10" (Gen. I, 5.7" rod)
265 = 3.750" x 3.00" ('55-'57 Gen.I, 5.7" rod)
265 = 3.750" x 3.00" ('94-'96 Gen.II, 4.3 liter V-8 "L99", 5.94" rod)
267 = 3.500" x 3.48" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod)
283 = 3.875" x 3.00" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod)
293 = 3.779" x 3.27" ('99-later, Gen.III, "LR4" 4.8 Liter Vortec, 6.278" rod)
302 = 4.000" x 3.00" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod)
305 = 3.736" x 3.48" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod)
307 = 3.875" x 3.25" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod)
325 = 3.779" x 3.622" ('99-later, Gen.III, "LM7", "LS4 front wheel drive V-8" 5.3 Liter Vortec, 6.098" rod)
327 = 4.000" x 3.25" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod)
345 = 3.893" x 3.622" ('97-later, Gen.III, "LS1", 6.098" rod)
350 = 4.000" x 3.48" (Gen.I, 5.7" rod)
350 = 4.000" x 3.48" ('96-'01, Gen. I, Vortec, 5.7" rod)
350 = 3.900" x 3.66" ('89-'95, "LT5", in "ZR1" Corvette 32-valve DOHC, 5.74" rod)
364 = 4.000" x 3.622" ('99-later, Gen.III, "LS2", "LQ4" 6.0 Liter Vortec, 6.098" rod)
376 = 4.065" x 3.622" (2007-later, Gen. IV, "L92", Cadillac Escalade, GMC Yukon)
383 = 4.000" x 3.80" ('00, "HT 383", Gen.I truck crate motor, 5.7" rod)
400 = 4.125" x 3.75" (Gen.I, 5.565" rod)
427 = 4.125" x 4.00" (2006 Gen.IV, LS7 SBC, titanium rods)

Two common, non-factory smallblock combinations:

377 = 4.155" x 3.48" (5.7" or 6.00" rod)
400 block and a 350 crank with "spacer" main bearings
383 = 4.030" x 3.75" (5.565" or 5.7" or 6.0" rod)
350 block and a 400 crank, main bearing crank journals
cut to 350 size

ALL production big blocks used a 6.135" length rod.
CHEVY BIG BLOCK V-8 BORE AND STROKE


366T = 3.935" x 3.76"
396 = 4.096" x 3.76"
402 = 4.125" x 3.76"
427 = 4.250" x 3.76"
427T = 4.250" x 3.76"
454 = 4.250" x 4.00"
477= 4.5" bore x 3.76" stroke
496 = 4.250" x 4.37" (2001 Vortec 8100, 8.1 liter)
502 = 4.466" x 4.00"
557T= 4.5 bore 4.375" stroke
572T = 4.560" x 4.375" (2003 "ZZ572" crate motors)

T = Tall Deck

ALL production big blocks used a 6.135" length rod.


erson sells a decent set of roller rockers for $220
GOOD 6" CONNECTING RODS FOR A 383 SBC
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/sca-26000716
http://www.pbm-erson.com/store.php?catId=24

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/vintage-302-chevy.12071/page-9

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=126&p=156&hilit=roller+rockers#p156


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-for-truck-build-sbc-engine.12050/#post-57645

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=198

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1719

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=546&p=685&hilit=tuned+port#p685

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=3009


btw the dog bone links on the roller lifters are best avoided theres far more durable ways to maintain roller alignment

the stock Chevy hydraulic roller lifters , dog bone and spider springs don,t always work reliably, ALL THE TIME with engines having over .500 lift or when spun over 6000rpm, its not all that rare for the lifter ,retainer to bend the retainer spring allowing the lifter to spin sideways, in the lifter bore, resulting in a destroyed cam, thats why Ive suggested BRAND NAME ,AFTERMARKET RETRO FIT CAM COMPONENTS BE USED

bentspiderspring.jpg

bentspiderspring1.jpg



Its been my experience that properly matched linked bar roller lifters are FAR MORE TROUBLE FREE AND DURABLE
especially if your lift exceeds .550 or your spinning the engine over 6000rpm occasionally

15854-2.jpg


ID suggest you select from heads from these sources
Jegs; 800/345-4545; Jegs.com

Summit Racing; 800/230-3030; SummitRacing.com

Scoggin-Dickey Parts Center; 800/456-0211; ScogginDickey.com


TRICKFLOW
http://www.trickflow.com/egnsearch.asp? ... 4294867081
http://www.trickflow.com/customerservice
1-330-630-1555 • 1-888-841-6556

BRODIX
http://www.brodix.com/heads/heads.html
479.394.1075

DART
http://www.dartheads.com/products/cylinder-heads
Dart Machinery; 248/362-1188; DartHeads.com


AIR FLOW RESEARCH
http://www.airflowresearch.com/
toll free: 877-892-8844
tel: 661-257-8124

Patriot Performance
Patriot Performance; 888/462-8276; Patriot-Performance.com


RHS
http://www.racingheadservice.com/rhs/cylinder-headshtml
Toll Free: 877-776-4323
Local: 901-259-1134

EDELBROCK
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... main.shtml
Edelbrock; 310/781-2222; Edelbrock.com

BMP (world products)
http://www.theengineshop.com/products/cylinder-heads
Tel: 631-737-0372
Fax: 631-737-0467

BUTLER PERFORMANCE
http://www.butlerperformance.com/products/cylinder_heads/cylinder_head_labor.html
866-762-7527

BLUE PRINT ENGINES
http://www.blueprintengines.com/ind...sb-chevy-aluminum-cylinder-heads-cnc-machined
1800-483-4263

PRO-FILER
https://www.profilerperformance.com/
937‐846‐1333



“Quality means doing it right when no one is looking.”
Henry Ford

“Quality is like buying oats. If you want nice, clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse ... that comes a little cheaper.”

an hour to a week spent in careful research,
before you buy or install parts,
can save you months or frustration
and easily 300%-to 500% of the eventually,
cost incurred in buying cheaper parts,in this hobby!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

I can see that Grumpy, difference between the OE lifters and the Retro-fit is only 110 bucks or so. Thats good advice.
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

retrohydraulicrollerlifters.jpg

IF your willing to read and learn , building a 450hp-550hp 383 SBC is not that difficult, but I can tell you from decades of building them, that most guys will find "DEALS" on mis-matched components too save a few bucks and skimp on quality components and precision machine work, and the result generally hurts both durability and performance a great deal as a result.
ID suggest you do detailed research, and a properly matched set of aftermarket aluminum heads that flow at least 250 cfm at .500 lift and a compression ratio near 9.5:1 for pump gas is a good starting point.
read the links and sub-links below carefully.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tbucket-engine-project-dart-shp.3814/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...383-build-that-is-now-going-to-be-a-400.7804/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-help-for-new-383-build.13099/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-selecting-budget-383-heads.14620/#post-78229
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-a-383-sbc-combo-planing.12168/#post-71932
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tweaking-a-350-383.13087/#post-68195
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5522&p=16620&hilit=roller+lifter#p16620

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=8310&p=28891#p28891

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=519

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5078

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38&p=26432&hilit=+known+engine+combo#p26432

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=8310&p=28891&hilit=+books+video#p28891

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3814

read thru these threads and sub links, theres a great deal of useful info in those links and sub links, take the effort youll save yourself months of work and thousands of dollars if you understand ALL the info before you start buying parts
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Indycars

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

busterrm said:
I can see that Grumpy, difference between the OE lifters and the Retro-fit is only 110 bucks or so. Thats good advice.

I'm wondering what lifters you are comparing that the difference is only $110. I do see where some manufactures have a Street Series lifters, but I would want to know what I'm giving up in quality.

Sometimes you have to spend more now to save a lot later!

 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

well the OE lifters I was going to buy were about 290- 300 and the retrofits that I would buy to replace them are about 400. Well, actually not that much, the Lunati retrofits are 375 at lunatipower.
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Hey Grumpy, is the failure you spoke of with the spider bar due to it being so light. Would it be worth it to fabricate one that is heavier to hold the retainers down? I have the skills and available machine to work the steel. Are there any oiling points on those pieces or are they oiled by splash? I am thinking if I used one as a patter I could make one out of 316/316L stainless. Probably 8 or 9 gauge would do the trick, thats about 5/32" thick. What do you think Grump?
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

I know I could make them, just curious thats all, thinking if I did do it I would not make the prongs just sit down on the retainers. Probably make it where there is slight pressure on the retainer, and drill and tap for a 1/4 - 20 bolt and bolt them down.
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

the failure is frequently the result of the lifters upper edge binding in the dog-bone and lifting it higher than its designed to move rather than sliding thru the dog-bone thats designed to retain its directional orientation that keeps the lifter wheel running on the cam lobe center line,
bentspiderspring.jpg

bentspiderspring1.jpg


this rarely becomes a problem at lifts lower than .500 or at under 6000rpm, but it can and does happen,
with the link bar design, pictured below, is less likely to bind

luntihylift.jpg

retrohydraulicrollerlifters.jpg


while a manual transmission like a muncie has traditionally been used in performance muscle cars , the current technology with a higher than stock stall speed converter and a decently strong auto transmission like a properly built TH400 or $l80E makes the rather common 450-500 hp 383 small block a much more reasonable combo, with decent durability.
Ive built dozens of 383-406 SBC engines and properly configured and assembled 383-406 SBC engines are fully able to shred a stock 700r4/700r style auto transmission, over time as both transmissions were designed to operate with engines providing no more than 400 ft lbs of torque.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Indycars said:
busterrm said:
I can see that Grumpy, difference between the OE lifters and the Retro-fit is only 110 bucks or so. Thats good advice.

I'm wondering what lifters you are comparing that the difference is only $110. I do see where some manufactures have a Street Series lifters, but I would want to know what I'm giving up in quality.

Sometimes you have to spend more now to save a lot later!

Not really any lose of quality. The OE style lifters are about 290 dollars(Lunati), and the retrofit are about 375-380 dollars and they are Lunati also.
 

Indycars

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

busterrm said:
Indycars said:
busterrm said:
I can see that Grumpy, difference between the OE lifters and the Retro-fit is only 110 bucks or so. Thats good advice.

I'm wondering what lifters you are comparing that the difference is only $110. I do see where some manufactures have a Street Series lifters, but I would want to know what I'm giving up in quality.

Sometimes you have to spend more now to save a lot later!

Not really any lose of quality. The OE style lifters are about 290 dollars(Lunati), and the retrofit are about 375-380 dollars and they are Lunati also.

I have only purchased one set of hydraulic roller lifters, so that was my reference.

I paid $575 direct from Crower, Summit lists them for $628. But Crower shows a
"New Lower Price" on their website of $468 now.

Sorry if I seemed a little short with my response, I can see where I was trying
to defend my decision to purchase the Crower lifters. Which was not right and
has no bearing on your purchases.
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Hey Rick,
I have no problem with your comment. I looked at Crower also, Crower is known for having one of the best quality lifters on the performance market, or that is what I have always heard from other gearheads. I can understand using them if the sole purpose is to race the car/truck. And for your T-bucket I certainly understand using them with your crower cam also. I am still shopping though, I may end up buying crower retrofit lifters, never know. If we decide on the 468LM hyd roller from crower, that may be the direction we go.
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

grumpyvette said:
the failure is frequently the result of the lifters upper edge binding in the dog-bone and lifting it higher than its designed to move rather than sliding thru the dog-bone thats designed to retain its directional orientation that keeps the lifter wheel running on the cam lobe center line,
bentspiderspring.jpg

bentspiderspring1.jpg


this rarely becomes a problem at lifts lower than .500 or at under 6000rpm, but it can and does happen,
with the link bar design, pictured below, is less likely to bind

luntihylift.jpg

retrohydraulicrollerlifters.jpg
So what your saying it the retainer(dogbone) actually moves up and down off the block or does it not move at all? If it does move up and down, how much does it move or is that related to the lift of the cam lobe?
 

busterrm

solid fixture here in the forum
Re: Planning a new 383 build!

Okay, I found the cam and retrofit lifters for almost 640 dollars which is actually 60 more than I was going to spend on the OE style lifters. Now I am not going to spend 87 dollars on the spider, and dogbone retainers but need the cam retainer plate. So on SBC roller blocks what is the center to center dimension on the cam retainer plate? Have seen online that there are 2 or 3 different dimensions on GM blocks. What is the dimension for SBC? I don't want to buy the retainer and have the wrong bolt centers. The cam will come step nosed already.
 
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