Prepping KG for paint

[DorianL]

Right!

I decided that I really want to get this KG sanded and painted sooner rather than later.

I don't like the flat black applied over red, applied over yellow.

I have anti-rattle nubs for the windows + new seal, cuz there are none on the doors... but I don't see the point of putting that in, just to have to remove or paint around it.

I think my best bet is to just bite the bullet and start sanding the entire car (inside and out) by hand.

I think I will remove the body from the roller-skate.

The trunk and the engine bay have some rust - but nothing too serious I think. Plus - it doesn't have to be super straight.

Little of the interior will be revealed from under the upholstery or carpeting. In fact I am tempted to detail paint the trunk/engine bay/interior myself.

The outside body, I'll have professionally painted for sure but will prep it myself.

I think the best will simply be to sand it down to its original yellow base coat.

Here finally is the question:
What tools would you use to get there?

- Wire wheel for the rust in the engine bay and trunk?
- Random orbital sander (grits?) for the body?
- and a complete set of various length velcro-lined sanding blocks?

And tips before I start?


THANKS!!!!

D

 

[mathd]

paint stripper wheel to remove paint and rust that dont come off with wire wheel. ( i never used paint stripper wheel, thats an idea from someone on that forum. i think its a good idea because stripping paint with a sander take forever)
You probably want 80 grit sand paper up to 400 for solid paint and 600 for metallic paint.
I like to start with 80 grit, body filler, then primer i like 120 grit, 220, 360, 400, (500, 600 if metallic paint)
Guide coat, it may be usefull. tack cloth(not really but they are cheap)?
Dual action sander is much better that orbital. If your very good with it, chances are you won't need sanding block and guide coat(but for a first timer, dont try it except if you dont care for the final result).
You will need something that go direct to metal too. I like 2k epoxy primer for that that are direct to metal compatible.
Except for the trunk/underbody you may want to shoot with undercoating? or tinted epoxy mixed as a sealer(urethane added).
You want 2k high build primer too for the body work.
Forget spray can primer, dont use that if you want a long lasting paint job. Use 2k only
And probably some bondo filler to get some area straight.
Also you may find some rust hole too.. So you will probably have to deal with that too. dont know if you have access to a mig welder or if you can have someone weld them for you.
I like to poke in the rust with a body hammer or knife to find rust hole.
There's a point on metal solid thickness where its no longer surface rust.

It's not as hard as it took like, in fact its easy but you really need to take your time.. it do take alot of time, time that you won't have to pay a shop for.
Need a good mood and be relax, dont think about the end. most people think about the end product, get fed up and do a crappy job.
If you feel disapointed about your work don't give up, if you dont give up you will have a good final result.
90% of your paint job result is in the prep work you will be doing, spraying really is nothing.

Dont leave any area not covered by primer trust me it will show up very well, if you use your hand for sanding dont use the finger tip but your whole hand.
Also, spray that 2k high build primer full wet(dont care about runs since your going to sand it anyway, you can use a very cheap high pressure spray gun for priming).

If you do all the body prep work, that will be much cheaper in the end and you know whats under the topcoat.

Sorry for long post, i think i covered it up pretty well. you will need some other stuff too, like masking tape and so on.

 

[DorianL]

Kewl. The more detail the better. Yer saying: take down to bare metal every time then?

 

[mathd]

Kewl. The more detail the better. Yer saying: take down to bare metal every time then?

No, but for rust spot you will obviously be on bare metal
And since you have thick 3-4 layer of paint, it could be a good idea to remove most of it, if this was enamel paint-(spraycan/ready to apply paint usually is enamel, so if they used stuff like rustoleum...).
Enamel never really dry/cure, so you can have some chemical reaction.(starting from zero just after the clearcoat must be quite disapointing/frustrating)
Thinner is the layer better it is(who want a thick paint job anyway).

If it was me, and am sure there's no enamel(and probably no lacquer since it chip easily), i sand the surface without going to metal(just so next layer have something to grab). Or going to bare metal if am crazy about the car or if i think there's too thick of paint or unsure whats underneat

I know its a pita, thats why i want to cry when i see someone using cheap enamel on a nice car.

 

[87vette81big]

A Razor Blade Dorian.
If paint is built up thick enough you can scrape it off easy in 2-3 foot sections each arm push .

 

[mathd]

A Razor Blade Dorian.
If paint is built up thick enough you can scrape it off easy in 2-3 foot sections each arm push .

That sound like a good idea, i would definatly give it a try.

You may also want some seam sealer, factory seam sealer may be gone/lifted on some spot because of rust.

 

[chromebumpers]

Dorian,

Did you ever consider renting a soda blaster? A soda blaster would cut your time down to a fraction of the hand sanding/paint remover wheel time. The trunk and engine compartments are a bear to sand, the soda is so much better and it protects bare metal for a time.

 

[DorianL]

I must admit, I was on the fence for blasting. Originally, I thought about a full body-off restoration. But the truth is, I've learned that, for me, cars are for driving -I could not stand the KG sitting around for months waiting disassembled. I'll proceed by jobs that can be done over a weekend and be running again for the week. I liked the idea of road and sandblasting to get it done fast... but that will be $1400. And knowing me, I might keep the body off for a long time - during which I won't drive it. So body off and/or blasting is out.

I think I'll take my time and just do section by section in manageable chunks.

It'll take a few weeks for the registration to get in so in the meantime I'll:

First POR-15 whatever I can of the roller-skate. That's a priority

Then the engine bay looks the most straight forward in terms of surface rust. I'll drop the engine and clean that up. Then I'll sand 'n' prep the engine bay and, using my compressor and a detailing gun, BC/CC the space. I should get some decent experience there for the next steps. Since it is the engine bay, other than getting rid of all the rust, it doesn't need to be a perfect job.

Then the front trunk. Same deal but the rust seems more extensive there. Prep. Paint the gas tank. Clean up wiring (nasty nest!) Paint BC/CC

By then, I should have enough BC/CC experience to do the interior.

After that - get the body sprayed professionally... pulling the windshield, etc. for them. I intend to do most of the body work and prep.

Niggly jobs:

• sort out kink in fuel line,
• take slop out of shifter and add a short throw kit,
• convert turn signals back to stock (not these cock-eyed beetle inserts),
• add caster shims (the track floats a bit),
• replace nasty steering wheel with a new one and put it on there straight (it's about 20 degrees off now)
• Figure out if I have an adjustable front beam or a few busted torsion leaf springs. (The front seems to low to my taste and perception... it could be the smaller-than-stock 135s on there. They should be 155s)
• Anti-rattle nubs for the windows

Then and only then when body is painted... weather seal the doors/windows

BTW - scraping off large swathes with a razors sounds great... just worried about gouging the metal, tho'.

PS - what really freaks me out about these air-cooled engines is that there is no oil filter! (and no coolant temp gauge)

 

[Indycars]

Since you are after a driver and not perfection, how about using a rust converter for that front trunk. Hard to clean the rust out of the pits in the metal. After cleaning and wire bushing some you could chemically treat the area. The surface is then ready for primer or paint.

Maybe Mathd will know more about it.

This is just one of many: http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-rust-converter.html

Rust Converter stops residual rust, and turns it into a black, protective, ready-to-paint coating, without sanding Eastwood's own high-tech formula converts rust into a protective polymeric coating that's ready to go as a primer, and is compatible with most top coats. That new protective coating will also seal the surface against moisture to prevent future rust growth.

Just apply to transform the rust
Penetrates faster than other brands
No mixing needed

 

[DorianL]

Yer kidding. You can paint over that? BC/CC?

For the front I am indeed tempted to go rust converter. Possibly grey POR-15...

 

[Indycars]

You said you might use Por15, well they are going to recommend that you use the Prep & Ready before you paint. I used it on my Dart SHP block before I painted. Looks like it does the same thing as the Eastwood product. It converts rust to zinc phosphate so their paint will adhere well to the surface.

I bought something similar at Lowes (Home Improvement Store) for some brake drums on a car from Michigan with lots and lots of rust. Just painted in on with a brush and let it set overnight. Might have given it a second coat, can't remember for sure. Then used a rattle can to paint.

Don't think I would go this route for the outside, but in the trunk .....

http://www.por15.com/PREP-READY-_p_15.html
http://qr.absolutecoatings.com/QR-asset ... dyInfo.pdf

PREP & READYTM provides the best adhesion for POR-15® on any metal surface, including aluminum and shiny polished metal surfaces. Our simple process gently etches metal, creating an ideal anchor pattern for coatings such as POR-15®, while simultaneously leaving a zinc phosphate coating to insure chemical bonding of paint and steel. Avoid other preps that may leave harmful residues which prevent proper adhesion. After thoroughly degreasing your work piece, apply environmentally safe PREP & READYTM to both neutralize any rust and etch any clean bare metal. This will allow better adhesion of POR-15® or any other paint. PREP & READYTM is not caustic, corrosive, toxic or flammable.

 

[chromebumpers]

When using the rust converters and coatings use a white foam roller (approx. 3/4" round, 3" or 4" long). Coatings will spread/dry evenly and spray on top coats will finish much better. Don't buy the Yellow foam as it is too porous and will make small bubbles. Using this roller will allow you to get in tight spots and behind things.

Also, you might want to check out this type of spray can for the interior and engine/trunk bays for professional results.

http://www.eastwood.com/paints/2k-aero- ... aints.html

 

[chromebumpers]

Here is a KG I found with a few more HP.

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/4090748347.html

 

[DorianL]

Here is a KG I found with a few more HP.

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/4090748347.html

Ummm - that's kinda unsettling.

 

[DorianL]

Thanks for advice! Particularly on using a white roller - cool!

I will be relocating the brake reservoir to right above the master cylinder. Apparently the trunk corrosion is from here.

This will simply get POR-15 grey. The tank I might sand down, prime and semi-gloss black it.

And I need to clean out that nest of wires...

 

[DorianL]

Hmmmm - pleased with the paint. I might hand sand the whole thing. The flat black scrapes off as does the red. Whatever primer under that seems clean - taking it down to the yellow and its primer seems doable and even desirable...