Punching A Bullet Through Brush

[Grumpy]

just interesting stuff for many guys
not really scientifically valid but still worth watching
and yeah, Ive used the 220 grain 30/06 and 45/70 with 405 grain hard cast
,and had excellent results,
and NO! I won,t shoot through a screen of brush at a target I can,t clearly see,
and in 50 plus years of hunting deer and elk,
Ive found shots over about 150 yards rather rare.

now keep in mind, the ranges where we hunt in florida seldom exceed 40 yards and 50 yards is a rare long shot, most shots are taken at under 40 yards , in very thick brush.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...t-mass-and-caliber-how-much-is-required.4607/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...for-a-decent-hunting-rifle-for-deer-elk.1133/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/whats-a-good-light-weight-elk-rifle.3738/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-favorite-and-most-used-big-game-rifle.13113/

 

[Grumpy]

one of the guys I regularly hunt with has been trying to decide if he wants to buy a 35 whelen in a remington 7600 slide action,
or a browning BLR lever action in 358 win to hunt elk with,
he asked me because I do a great deal of the reloading for our group.
now the choice of either option is well documented by the members,
of the group I hunt with to work very well, the 250 speer bullet,
is almost universally preferred by the guys I hunt with,
the 35 whelen pushes it to about 2450 fps the 358 to about 2300 fps,
both have a long record of decisive one shot, elk kills,
I pointed out that browning sells the BLR in stainless and 30/06 caliber
pointing out ammo,s far easier to find and less expensive
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...s_id/61422/browning+blr+81+td+30-06+stainless
Ive used both, I marginally prefer the BROWNING lever action,
its been very marginally more accurate on average, in my experience.
but theres no real advantage to either one that I've seen.
now a lot of guys will ask, why anyone would not select a much flatter shooting 270 win,
or 7mm mag, and theres no good reason you can,t .
or should not use those, calibers.
both are available in decent rifles,
theres no really best choice,
either choice in skilled and persistent hands will work.
but I think a great deal here is related to purchasing a rifle similar too,
what several other members have used successfully for decades,
feeling hes become a member of the older IN CROWD
keep in mind the area we have hunted for decades is thick timber,
aspen and conifer and shots over 200 yards are exceedingly rare.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...for-a-decent-hunting-rifle-for-deer-elk.1133/

358 win

personally I have a great deal of respect for the few guys I know that can consistently place shots on targets at rather longer ranges,
where you hunt,has a huge effect on the potential ranges youll be confronted with, the terrain can vary a great deal.
but I have a great deal of experience teaching people to use a firearm, and watching a good selection of people shoot.
One guy I hunted with for decades was a SWAT sniper, for 15 years before he retired,
he could shoot amazing groups with a bull barrel 308 bolt action, using a bi-pod, at typical 100-400 yard distances
but thats a different skill set from hitting a running deer or elk that jumps up at 40-120 yards un-expectantly in thicker cover.
and you have 3-4 seconds before hes well into cover.

years ago I saw a game department survey made where they asked hundreds of hunters at a western BLM check point,
to look out at 5 different colored flags placed at random but carefully measured distances,
and write down what each person estimated the distance too be from the check point,
they were handed a pen and a survey card, they were told NONE of the colored flags,
were at an even 100 yard multiple but that was the only info ,
each flag was a different, color, placed in a
different direction and at a different distance.
the survey taker pointed out each colored flag and asked them to write down their estimated range!
they tabulated the actual hunters field estimates being made on the spot, vs the carefully measure actual distances.
.the results were about what Id have expected..after decades of listening to guys claim they killed deer & elk at 400 and 500 and 600 yards.......
the vast majority were very VERY bad at estimating distances correctly past about 150 yards, some estimates that were over 70% wrong were not uncommon

 

[T-Test]

Marlin 30-30 is my brush rifle and like you, not many shots out to 100 yards unless lucky to see one int he road or a field. Have hit many twigs and never veered of target. It's old and rusty on yhe outside but is clean and very functional inside. Too many rainy days and horseback riding in a scabbard.

 

[Grumpy]

with hunting season coming upp,
a few video,s with some good basic and practical advice on white tail deer rifle selection.

I think far too many guys worry about having a deer rifle that will maintain very small groups and flat trajectory,
but the truth is that most decent centerfire rifles will work in skilled and experienced hands.
any rifle that will consistently keep 3" or preferably smaller 3 shot groups at 100 yards will fill your freezer with deer year after year without fail.

I would personally suggest a 25 or larger caliber ,
but the 6mm/243 will certainly work,
personally I find the marlin 44 mag, lever action,
which limits you to about 140 yards perfectly acceptable,
and a ruger #1 in caliber 270 win,(easily a 350 -400 yard rifle) far more than required,
and the browning BLR in either calibers like 257 roberts,
,358 win, 308 win or 450 marlin all work, great.
notice theres a huge range in power and differences in flatness of trajectory,
but keep in mind shots over 150 yards will be very rare in most areas I've hunted whitetail deer in.
having over about a 22" barrel or over a 8 lb rifle generally is a P.I.T.A.
scopes over 2x/7x are generally also un-necessary, and in fact iron sights tend too work quite well at the ranges required.
asked for a universal caliber choice a 308 win is close to ideal with selected ammo,
but you could be just as successful with a 257 roberts or 270 win, or 6.5mm creedmore

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...you-cast-and-hunt-with-bullets-you-made.6802/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...t-mass-and-caliber-how-much-is-required.4607/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-a-good-all-around-elk-mule-deer-rifle.12948/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-favorite-and-most-used-big-game-rifle.13113/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/white-tail-rifle-choices.14080/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rifle-choice-if-starting-over.6505/

 

[Grumpy]

I got asked if the 223 in an AR15 would work?
in some states a 24 caliber is the minimum legal caliber .im many states a 5 cartridge mag capacity ,
is max for legal semi auto rifles in hunting areas
yes with proper ammo and where legal aa AR15 in caliber 223 rem will certainly kill deer
Ive certainly seen it done rather regularly here in florida.



http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-viable-deer-hunting-caliber-and-rifle.12801/