renegade intake? for cross fires

Discussion in 'Engine: Repairs and Modifications & generally corv' started by grumpyvette, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    JUST CURIOUS?
    not knocking or praising this product
    just looking forward to testing one
    and yes Im only too familiar with the delays and problems of producing components on more than a custom,one of basis,
    for at least a year Ive heard rumors that the RENEGADE x-fire intakes will be available shortly and they have a PRE-BUY deal going, but It seems like its always taking a little longer ...........I was wondering if any ones seen any progress or knows whats REALLY going on here , when products are ACTUALLY going to be delivered
    these might be a really nice intake, but until I have one to test & tune its just pie in the sky
    so I was hoping you guys have the strait scoop

    Dynamic Crossfire Solutions

    http://www.crossfireinjection.net/
    [​IMG]


    WELL THE DYNO RESULTS ARE IN
    The new intake ALONE on a stock crossfire engine produces 32 hp and 16 lbs/ft of torque at the rear wheels over the stock crossfire intake, adding better flowing heads like the AFR or BRODIX or TRICKFLOW heads and a decent cam like a CRANE 114132 easily boosts that result



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    WELL THE DYNO RESULTS ARE IN
    The new intake ALONE on a stock crossfire engine produces 32 hp and 16 lbs/ft of torque at the rear wheels over the stock crossfire intake,
    adding better flowing heads like the AFR or BRODIX or TRICKFLOW heads and a decent cam like a CRANE 114132 easily boosts that result, ID expect more like 60-70hp PLUS with all those component changes
    ok basics
    keep in mind the concept of a chain is only as strong as it WEAKEST LINK
    the stock heads flow less than 200cfm, the stock intake flows less than 200cfm and the stock cam is designed to max out at about 5000rpm, so you need to change all three components to get a noticeable improvement.

    keep in mind the cars geared , stock to run in the 1200rpm-5000rpm power band.
    if you want to keep the basic cross fire intake design the renegade intakes designed as a well designed improved flow intake, the OFFENHAUSER crossram intake can be modified for even better flow rates but its a good deal more work,
    youll want heads that maximize the low and mid rpm flow potential so look for heads in the 180-200cc port size that flow at least 245-250 cfm at .500 lift
    obviously a roller cam will provide more air flow than a similar duration flat tappet cam, but if you go much above 206 duration on an automatic trans youll want a hight stall converter or above about 212 duration on a cam for a manual trans or a auto trans you need to change rear gears to get the full benefit.

    THESE 180CC AFR heads are IDEAL for a fast crossfire combo, read these links

    http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_25

    http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... 3/A-P1.htm

    viewtopic.php?f=32&t=640&p=20467&hilit=crossfire#p20467

    adding displacement, compression and better heads and a better cam can double your power
    http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... 9/A-P1.htm


    [​IMG]
    a cam like this crane roller, those 180cc or 190cc AFR heads, in a 383 -406 sbc with 10:1 compression, that renegade intake and a low restriction exhaust and a manual trans or a 2800 rpm stall converter and 3.73:1 rear gears would make a HUGE improvement in a crossfire corvettes power
    [​IMG]
    heres desk top dynos (IN MY OPINION) rather overly optimistic prediction on such a combo
    having built similar engine combos in the past with the OFFY intake on a 383 ID suggest 425 -435 FLYWHEEL hp and 450-470 ft lbs is more realistic for a 383 or 406 built with that mild roller cam and youll need to increase the throttle body fuel flow rates


    READ THRU THESE LINKS

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/#post-54682


    http://www.technovelocity.com/chevyhack ... olish.html

    http://jobyteknik.homeip.net/corvette/2002-11_offy_installation/

    viewtopic.php?f=86&t=1397

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sfire-vette-won-t-run-right.10096/#post-39710

    http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles ... 5/A-P1.htm

    http://web.archive.org/web/200603220017 ... tallation/

    viewtopic.php?f=32&t=5521&p=16676&hilit=aluminum+corvette#p16676

    viewtopic.php?f=44&t=623&p=2154&hilit=offy#p2154
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2017
    Kane likes this.
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corv...nifold-crossfire-injection-1982-and-1984.html

    http://www.technovelocity.com/chevyhackers/tech_articles/port_polish/port_polish.html
    yes you can port the stock intake, but even professionally, modified its very unlikely to match the RENEGADE intake below and will more than likely cost considerably more to modify correctly, and is more likely to produce less power

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-few-cross-fire-tips.303/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/refresh-1982-crossfire-vette.14173/

    Dynamic Crossfire Solutions
    http://www.crossfireinjection.net/
    http://www.crossfireinjection.net/
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    WELL THE DYNO RESULTS ARE IN
    The new RENEGADE intake ALONE on a stock crossfire engine, with its factory intake, replaced, with the newer renegade intake, produces 32 hp and 16 lbs/ft of torque at the rear wheels over the stock crossfire intake, adding better flowing heads like the AFR or BRODIX , profiler or TRICKFLOW heads,


    below a mildly ported OEM cross fire intake with its restricted runner design
    [​IMG]
    http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_29
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bro-1021001/overview/
    http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp ... toview=sku
    http://www.profilerperformance.com/raci ... -23-degree
    in the 195cc-210cc range and a decent cam like a CRANE 114132 (btw thats a good street cam for the basic crossfire engine but with a 3.73:1 rear gear, and a higher stall converter speed it can use a bit more cam than that also, easily boosts that result, add a 3.73:1 rear gear ratio and a 3200 stall converter if its an automatic transmission and it will preform like a totally different car, ID expect more like 60-70hp and 60 more ft lbs at an absolute minimum PLUS with all those component changes, depending on the components used, a more radical hydraulic roller cam in a 10:1 compression 383 could certainly boost results much higher doubling your horse power from stock is certainly obtainable as a goal

    every time I hear that MYTH,
    ( that starts out with, BUT THE 1984 MAKES GOBS OF TORQUE) I want to point out a few facts

    http://www.stingray.nu/tips/tech84.htm

    right from Chevy (1984 vette)
    Net HP @ RPM 205 @ 5200
    Net Torque @ RPM 290 @ 2800
    Comp. Ratio 9.0:1



    right from Chevy (1991 vette)
    Net HP @ RPM 245 @ 4000
    Net Torque @ RPM 345 @ 3200


    heres an example of what CAN BE DONE WITH THE CORRECT COMPONENTS

    http://www.airflowresearch.com/artic...le031/A-P1.htm

    we are all forced to work on limited budgets, but if your going to maximize a cross fire engine combo...
    the most restrictive components are the stock intake cylinder heads, exhaust system, and cam
    Id suggest you replace the intake with that renegade, intake and I do at least some port and runner clean-up port work,
    http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corv...=25-324816-1&gclid=CLS6s6-l_NMCFYMSgQoddVYHsg

    Id suggest you call AFR and brodix about cylinder heads in the 180cc-200cc range
    the key to good power is in good heads maximizing the mid rpm air flow and a cam that will match the intake and head flow characteristics, you might also consider a 383 stroker assembly to maximize low speed torque.
    (its a very cost effective way to boost torque and hp an easy extra 40 ft lbs and 45 hp in most cases)


    http://www.airflowresearch.com/195cc-sbc-street-cylinder-head/
    http://brodix.com/heads-2/small-block-chevrolet-compatible-heads/ik-series
    Id suggest getting the static compression near 10:1
    Id strongly suggest you replace the exhaust system with a 3" and (X) pipe design with low flow restriction mufflers
    http://www.melrosecorvette.com/1984-1985-l98-corvette-header-system/

    and add full length headers

    Id suggest a mild hydraulic roller cam and use of quality roller 1.6:1 ratio rockers
    Id be looking for something in the 215-220 duration on the intake at .050 lift, call and get suggestions from crane, crower, erson, etc.
    the basic intake design and port config of that renegade intake design will limit the engines power band to near 2000 rpm-6000 rpm so a longer duration cam will mostly reduce lower rpm torque

    http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=24189
    https://www.crower.com/camshafts/ch...ft-hyd-roller-cam-small-base-circle-4120.html
    Id suggest a 3.73 rear gear ratio
    Id suggest a 2400 rpm stall converter
    these two drive train mods maximize the cars ability to use the power produced



    carefully reading through
    these links and sub links will help
    ITS GOING to be well worth the time and effort

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/renegade-intake-for-cross-fires.2796/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/1984-fuel-pressure.11776/#post-55675

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/got-a-cross-fire-corvette.640/#post-50502

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...lf-the-time-starts-and-dies.11187/#post-50245

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/1984-crossfire-vette-won-t-run-right.10096/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tweaking-a-350-383.13087/#post-68195

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/383-information-overload.11137/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/matching-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  3. Drawmain

    Drawmain Well-Known Member

    To those that are considering the Renegade, look into EBL Flash for your ECM, makes tuning the CFI easier, especially if you want to upgrade your cam and heads to take advantage of the Renegade's improvements over the stock manifold.
     
  4. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    I have the renegade, and following one of Grumpy's other threads on this subject I also picked up a Crane 114122, and I'm eyeballing a set of Edlebrock Performer or E-street heads...
    Where I would like the ability to tune my ECM, or even replace it with a newer model. However I'm having a hard time finding detailed information...

    Car = 84 Vette (Z51 teeth rattling fun)

    I'm hoping to start tearing into the car with in the next month or so, I have to have the rack and pinion rebuilt, so it seems like a good time to tackle it all.
     
    Kane likes this.
  5. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    I run into guys with similar plans a great many times and my first questions are always

    (1) whats your real goal here?
    (2)what don,t you like about the current engine?
    (3)whats your realistic financial budget?
    (4) what physical work are you willing and capable of doing yourself?


    yes theres a dozen different routes you can take but don,t just jump into modifying the current engine without thinking through both the cost and eventual expected power increase and what the modifications your contemplating might result in.
    AS with most engine mods stepping back and thinking about what your actually attempting to do when the mods are complete and taking a long realistic look at your finances, skill level and the tools and area you have to work with rather than just ordering random parts you see advertised is a smarter route to take here.
    theres always rather UN-expected consequences if your fairly new to modifying cars, that killer cam the magazine article is promoting will require supporting modifications that allow it to run correctly, like a different higher stall speed torque converter if your running an automatic transmission, and swapping from a stock, lets say 2.87:1-3.08:1 rear gear ratio to a 3.54:1-3.73:1 rear gear, larger port heads, a better intake and a low restriction exhaust and headers, most of those mandated matching mods are either ignored or glossed over briefly, its the total matching combo not a single component being upgraded that will provide the desired power increase and your forced to do a bit of research if you expect it to turn out well.
    now Im certainly not suggesting you don,t go the route you suggested, but think it through, and make a rational decision, listing the cost of the components, the time and effort required and the expected power increase then look at your other options.
    yeah! I know this might be beating a dead horse to some readers, but you have options , and most guys just don,t think things through carefully before whipping out the plastic and start charging parts!
    take the time to list all the parts you think youll need and the cost of the parts, verify the availability and try to look up the potential power increase vs the cost and you may, in fact will more than likely find several other options that might be worth considering BEFORE you go the intended route listed.
    most of us never step back and think through our options, yes Im just as guilty, but Id suggest learning from my mistakes, I build engines as a hobby for many of the local guys and pulling down an engine and swapping parts is far easier for me with my tools and my shop than it is for many of you gentlemen, but that still did not prevent me from making some mistakes in long term planing.
    I got involved in building both my dream work shop and my 1985 corvette at about the same time,that I moved from miami to west palm beach,

    when I purchased my 1985 corvette I started modifying the engine a bit at at time , eventually over about 5 years time I found Id spent about $9000 in the receipts Id bothered to keep, at the same time I built a rather nice work shop, but I found Id failed at keeping my real goal for the car clearly in sight because it was easier to do a bit of modifying the current car vs looking at the true long term goal, Id replaced ALL the original engine and much of the drive train, and almost tripled the power output from about 230hp originally to a bit over 500 hp,N/A and near 700HP with the giggle gas system, but I had and still do have the intention of installing a dana 60 live axle and a 4l80e trans and a killer BBC engine, and now realize that I could have done that with the money I basically wasted piecing together the 383 SBC in the car, while I at the same time accumulated the parts for the BBC engine and drive train upgrade that was and still is the eventual goal that I effectively was shooting myself in the foot, with buy working on the 383 SBC at the same time.
    no one in his right mind ever said this was an inexpensive hobby
    or that there would not be a constant improvement in the components available to purchase,
    nor is there any argument that the cost of the better parts is rather excessive,
    and out of the financial reach of most of us!
    Id also point out that theres a huge amount of potential cash needed for tools, time and effort required ,
    to learn skills and a thriving aftermarket in used race car parts at significant discounts, and occasionally some great deals to be had,
    IF you know what your looking for and have a bit of spare cash on hand at the right time and place!
    yes the parts shown ARE darn expensive and yes you can make do, with cheaper parts at times in some applications.
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/my-current-corvettes-383-combo.430/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/hello-grumpyvette-here.278/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...garage-plans-some-build-info-experiances.116/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-car-lift-in-your-shop.98/
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2015
  7. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    I have a Dana 60 when your ready Grumpy.
    Its going nowhere.

    Drag Racing is Back.
     
  8. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    (1) whats your real goal here? (partly bucket list, mostly this is my fun car, and the power is just sad...)
    (2)what don,t you like about the current engine? (I need a bit more oomph, a chevy cobalt can beat me, but it comes down to having more fun, lots of windy canyon roads, complete with banked turns around here, decided I needed more power when coming out of a turn ect)
    (3)whats your realistic financial budget? (trying to keep under 3k, but i can stretch that a little)
    (4) what physical work are you willing and capable of doing yourself? (I would like to avoid pulling the trans, but I'm willing to tool up)


    And yeah...

    I had a few worries, first one was the hood on the 84.

    In 84 they have this cold air intake that routes through and seals up to the airbox sides, one of my worries was if I would have room to clear a carb if I went that route.

    The next thing was the throttle bodies are very simple, parts pretty easy and cheap for the most part.

    Power; I would like to target as close to 300hp to 350hp, mostly for some fun in those windy canyon roads.

    (Mostly wanting more oomph powering out of the corners)

    I have some worries about the rear end, and what they can really take, and also the trans...

    Another want is to not totally kill the gas mileage and in turn the range (to get those scenic windy canyon roads).

    I have been eyeballing some of the fuel injection kits that seem to start out at about 2k, my total investment will be around that when done with the current plan.

    Work, I'm mostly open, tools I don't have I'm buying.

    And I just completed a full cuddy boat restore last year (Iboats forum was a huge help), and I started itching for something that will wake the neighbors up and push me back in my seat...

    While looking for an old Camaro I liked, I found out about the vintage car law in my state, and I found old C4's are pretty cheap.... so here I am now lol

    For the most part I'm learning as I go, I'm very good with tuning carbs, including multi carbs (motorcycles), I work with computers and having the ability to tune would be a fun learning exp.

    In highschool I rebuilt a rotary engine out of an RX-7, and an old dodge v8, they were very basic. However that was a long time ago...

    Over this winter I'm also planning on pulling the rear diff and to replace all of the bearings and seals, I'm also open to changing the ring and pinion gear out, but mostly I'm looking at basic maintenance due to old seals and a slightly loose pinion.
     
  9. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    Also last weekend I took a 2002 C5 out for a test drive, I was very disappointed in it.
    While the top end was great, I have a ton more low end in my 84.
    I also found I really like the rough ride and the 2.0 steering ratio in my 84, the C5 drove like my wifes car for the most part...
    After that I'm feeing a ton better about the money I'm spending!

    I'll also note... my father-in-law is onboard, and with his blessing the wife is not saying a word ;)
     
  10. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    ok lets keep this rather basic, on a $3000 budget Id go this route, now obviously you could make a bit more horsepower with higher dollar parts but I think a combo like this should provide decent value, in increased responsiveness and acceleration, over the stock engines power level for the money spent.
    the stock engines make a bit over 205 hp
    http://www.vettefacts.com/C4/1984.aspx

    http://www.stingray.nu/tips/tech84.htm

    right from Chevy (1984 vette)
    Brake horsepower 205 @ 4200
    Torque 290 lb-ft @ 2800
    Comp. Ratio 9.0:1


    many 1984 cross fire corvette owners will brag about the low rpm massive torque the original cross fire engines have, but the truth is that the intake manifold, cylinder heads cam and even the original throttle body's and the fuel pump that supply those throttle body's are all nothing short of pathetically restrictive compared, to whats currently available and rather easily acquired and can be used to upgrade the original engines meager power level to something that's far more robust and effective.
    the OEM crossfire heads for 1984 are casting number 462624 76cc heads
    [​IMG]

    462624 chevy head flow numbers
    (these are the heads that came on the 1984 corvettes)
    just a bit of info on those stock #624 head flow rates

    .......intake....exhaust
    .100..44..........41cfm
    .200..101..........82cfm
    .300.155..........125cfm
    .400..182..........137cfm
    .500..196..........140cfm

    The 624 is a light weight version of the 882 head.,. The 624 is one of the worst that GM produced and not intended for high performance use.

    http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html

    keep in mind you don,t need to start converting the engine to some totally different high rpm small block that spins at 7000 plus rpm, the original concept of the cross fire intake design with its long runner design was and is to maximize the low and mid rpm torque, but in the last 31 years a great deal of improvements in component design and new parts have become available, the renegade intake design is specifically matched to that lower rpm power band, but to take full advantage if the increased flow rated a slightly longer duration cam, much better heads (but keeping a rather effective 175cc-195cc port size) and swapping to a 3.54:1 or 3.73:1 rear gear to move the whole power band up about 800 rpm-1200 rpm higher and extend its upper rpm effective reach about 1000 rpm, from the original 4000 rpm-4500 rpm too, the mow available 5000 rpm-5500 rpm ,while still maintaining and even increasing the available torque and instant responsiveness of the original design is not only easily accomplished but can produce rather amazing results, but you will need to look at the concept as a combination of matched parts that are well designed to work together,each boosting the other components effect on the wholes NOT the random swapping in a few better performing individual components.
    the change in cylinder heads,intake, cam, rockers and the rear gear ratio that allows the car to maximize it higher torque and horse power potential will be very noticeable in the drives seat, the heads and cam, intake and gearing all maximize that 2000 rpm-5000 rpm that will be used the vast majority of the time on a street driven corvette.
    A combo like this will produce a nice boost in performance, but before you ask, no you can,t mix & match or only install part of the combo, it won,t work to near its full potential unless all the parts are correctly installed and the cars engine adjusted and tuned to take full advantage of the increased air flow,and higher effective average useful rpm band

    the renegade intake is a good value

    http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corv...nifold-crossfire-injection-1982-and-1984.html
    $544.99 ea.
    , its worth about 30 hp over the pathetic o.e.m cross fire manifold
    your stock cylinder heads are very restrictive


    HEADS
    (Id try to find a standard 175cc-195cc 23 degree first gen cylinder head that flows about 240 plus cfm at .500 lift)
    your stock cylinder heads barely flow 200 cfm

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pmx-2169?seid=srese1&gclid=CMXvk734wsgCFQmOaQodSDcOVQ
    $843.00(easily 35-40 hp if used with the cam and intake)
    OR
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-30410001

    OR
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/drt-127121/overview/
    Flow:



      • Intake: 264 cfm @ 0.500"



      • Exhaust: 180 cfm @ 0.600"
    or
    http://store.speedmaster79.com/p-50...-hydr-r-complete-aluminum-cylinder-heads.aspx

    or
    http://www.profilerperformance.com/racing/cylinderheads/sbc-23-degree
    Product Description Remove Unit Price Quantity Total
    SBC 23 Degree Cylinder Head, 11/32 Guides & Steel Seats
    Intake Port Size: 180cc Intake Ports
    Chamber Size: 64cc As Cast Chamber
    Spark Plug Orientation: Straight Plug
    Intake Valves: 2.02/1.600 Valve Job
    Spring Package: Opt 92 .550 Lift,1.250 Single Springs, Steel Retainers, Keepers Assembled ADD $50
    Casting Style: Standard Cooling
    Item Number: 176
    remove
    $525.00
    ea. update
    $1050.00



    CAM
    the crane 114132 cam is the largest Ive found that works reasonably well with the basic OEM THROTTLE BODY INJECTION
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-114132 (also worth about 20-30 hp)
    $225.10
    OR

    http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=119&sb=2


    TIMING SET
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1100/overview/
    $34.97 timing set, yours is without doubt in need of replacing


    http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=23790

    1.6:1 ratio ROLLER ROCKERS
    http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&itemPerPage=60&Ne=1+2+3+13+1147708&searchTerm=555-20105
    $237.99 (almost required to maximize the head flow and worth 12-15 hp in reduced friction and increased lift at the valve)
    your up to about $1900 at this point, youll need another $80-$100 in sealants and gaskets, you may be able to reuse the push rods but check the rocker geometry


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/
    spend the rest on a DANA 3.73:1 rear gear ratio and its install cost
    the combination of these parts will produce what your looking for, a noticeable increase in performance, if you don,t get ALL the parts it won,t work nearly as effectively

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  11. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    Thanks for the info! (I'll read through it all today)
    confirmed I have a Dana 36, looking around ebay it looks like the package for a D44 with the C beam would run me about 2k... so that will have to wait for a while.

    I did also find that newer (auto trans) corvettes in the 300-350hp range commonly come with the Dana36 as well, however they do have that toque management...
    So I'm hoping I don't grenade my rear end when out in the middle of nowhere making a lot of noise... :)

    So far following some of your threads on the subject I do have the camshaft with a more mild grind for the auto trans
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-114122

    I also have the renegade intake sitting in the parts stack, I'll note that summit racing lists a polished version that say the "plenum" is polished.
    I confirmed the definition of "plenum" before ordering seeing it's the area below the carb and decided that was a good value...
    Well getting my polished intake and seeing the pretty shine, I can confirm only the outside of the intake is polished... :) Just an fyi for anyone else thinking the same thing.

    I have also been buying the parts in stages, paying it off and moving to the next batch of parts.

    As of right now I have the intake: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ems-msren-100p
    camshaft: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-114122 (I also got the lock plate for an extra 3$ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99168-1)
    all gaskets: Oil pan, timing cover, intake, (head gasket here: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7310)
    double roller timing chain: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-2100
    ARP head bolt set: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-134-3701
    harmonic balancer: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-161350
    harmonic balancer bolt: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-134-2501

    (As of right now I can get away with returning everything except for the intake, and the camshaft is getting really close to the 30 day mark)

    Now with my super shiny intake, I decided to just roll with it, I'm also eyeballing a set of valve covers.
    I love the look of the fabricated sets however I can only get them in tall, if you have any experience in this please :)

    And for the rocker arms, I was pretty curious how they would affect idle with the better camshaft with it being an auto ect.
    For rocker arms I have been eyeballing this set 1.65 ratio
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/scc-scp1008
     
  12. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    One more thing; my distributor has a ton of rotational play, I was looking at just replacing it with an after market one... or just replacing the gear and shimming it a little.
    The electronics are original 1984 and they are looking their age...
    Thoughts?
     
  13. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    the milder cam (cranes 114122) is easier to tune and will still give you a noticeable boost in performance, of about 20-25 hp, over the stock cam, but its also not going to give as much power over about 4500rpm as the slightly longer duration version (crane 114132)(if you want to stick with a cheap flat tappet hydraulic cam)
    the scorpion 1.65:1 ratio rockers, or the 1.6:1 Jegs rockers have almost no effect on the idle characteristics , as they don,t do much to the duration or LCA. just increased valve lift and on these mild cams that extra lift helps

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    the forged steel rockers generally clear in most application if the short nuts are used

    WHILE THESE ARE RATHER EXPENSIVE VALVE COVERS THEY HAVE ADVANTAGES THAT I THINK MAKE THEM WORTH THE COST
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-141-913
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    keep in mind that (old saying)" a chain is only as strong as its weakest link"
    having better cylinder heads that flow 250cfm-270cfm gains you not a bit of improvement, if still matched to an intake that flows 190cfm, matching an intake that flows 250cfm- 270cfm to stock cross fire cylinder heads ,heads that flow 200 cfm gains you zero!
    having heads and an intake that potentially flow 250 cfm at .600 lift but retaining a cam with .420 lift and a duration limiting your engine to about 4500 rpm and at .420 lift less than 210 cfm will be a huge restriction on its potential power.
    having a transmission and gearing that forces the engine to spend most of its time in the 1200rpm-4500rpm range slowly building rpms and then shift at 5000rpm and spend most of its time in the 1200rpm-4500rpm band will hardly allow a set of heads and an intake designed to provide max effective power in the 3500rpm-5500rpm band to function anywhere near their full potential

    READ THE LINKS AND SUB LINKS

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/head-and-cam-swap-82-cfi.10412/

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=126&p=1193&hilit=ratio+rockers+louis#p1193

    viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/refresh-1982-crossfire-vette.14173/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/a-few-cross-fire-tips.303/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-and-valve-cover-install-info.946/#post-1615

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-rocker-ratios-and-the-effects.126/#post-156
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  14. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    Great information, I made It through a good 50% of the threads and links today, turns into a pretty big spider web... :)
    One of my questions about pushrod length has been answered, but I still have lots more reading to do...

    Also for the heads, I had looked at those promaxx heads, they reminded me a lot of the heads Skip White has on ebay...
    Originally I was planning on going that route, however for a little bit more I get into the Edlebrock E-Street heads...

    For the lift I'll end up with, the Edlebrock heads have as good or better (slightly) flow numbers, and edlebrock can tell me about each part, hardness, thickness, the valves, springs, ect... I would hate to have some massive failure because I decided to go for import parts to save a few bucks...

    That and they are USA made castings for not much more after everything is included...

    I'm still a little torn but leaning heavily towards the Edlebrock e-street heads, and if I went for the RPM heads I would have options later on.

    Earlier I was looking up how much lift I can get with different rocker arms, and if my memory serves me... if I went for 1.7 I would get real close to .5 lift...
    Edlebrock has those numbers available for the springs, I just need to find out what the cam can handle...

    I'm sure I'm missing something... :)

    also I already cheaped out on a set of roller rockers over the summer, I needed to change out the valve stem seals due to smoke on startup, that went really w ell, however I bought a set of nice priced cheapie non full rollers.
    When I got them the box had "Pro Comp" written across the box, they had a lot of casting flaws, and needed some finishing on many areas.
    I spent a good 2hrs cleaning them up, and then I took the rockers with the casting flaws and put them in a position that would hopefully prevent any breakages from falling down into the engine...
    After that I'm really leaning away from any Chinese made parts...

    Also reading through the links, I'm pretty sure I over tightened the rockers, however I had to tighten a few down a few extra turns until I got a steady oil flow.
    It could be an issue with a few of my lifters but...

    Anyways, thanks again for the great information, hopefully this will go smoothly. :)
     
  15. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    Ok looking over heads, I confirmed I'll be fine with the Edlebrock e-street valve springs, however they are on the higer "race" side listed in crane's instructions.
    They suggest running weaker springs for break-in...
    so I guess run the factory springs and the 1.5 rockers from my current setup, and then swap the springs and rockers out for the higher ratio once complete...
    e-street heads have a 125lb seat pressure and at .500 lift it's 320lbs

    And On the Promaxx heads, reading reviews I see a lot of people pretty happy with them, and they would save me almost $200 over the edlebrock heads... however I don't see anything about seat pressure, and the promaxx site:http://www.promaxxperformance.com/index.php/sbc-small-block-chevy-2110.html
    Looks like 235/600lb?
     
  16. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    I'm also thinking kinda seriously about a 2 piece timing cover, it will make replacing a camshaft a little easier if I screw up or change it around later on.
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-4242/overview/
    even though I have to remove the AC compressor, fuel line, radiator, ac condenser to get the water pump off anyways.. saves me from the oil pan... :)
     
  17. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

  18. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    I was wondering about that, sold! :)

    And yeah.. I have some flexibility ;)

    And my rack and pinion is getting bad, i'm getting the garage ready this weekend...
     
  19. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    Not all Rocker arms are the same.
    Grumpy Knows too.

    Crower Enduro All Stainless Are my Favorite .
    Grumpy like Crane Gold.
    Comp Cams Stainless are Decent.

    Scorpion Rockers are Ok.
    I used at work a few times this year on Ford 302 ci V8 engines.

    Every Brand Rocker has its own unique Lift Arc.
    You see the witness mark pattern scrubbed into the Valvestem tip when checking pushrod length.
    A Blue Sharpie Marker used prior on all 16 valvestem tips.
     
  20. Gibbles

    Gibbles Clicker of buttons

    Running into a few holes in my plan...

    First it looks like the two piece timing cover edlebrock offers was designed for an 8in dampener, I bought the standard 6.x in one since I'm not pushing for much more RPM...

    And doing some more reading today and I ran across this...
    http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Cam_and_compression_ratio_compatibility
    Talks about duration and compression ratio...
    My plans involve raising the CR to about 10.1:1, and per the chart I need more duration... but then I guess I run into issues with my throttle body config...
     

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