rhodes lifters

[grumpyvette]

What are your opinions about rhodes lifters?

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/OriginalFT.html

Rhoads lifters
Ive used them several times,do they work?

heres my opinion after using them in about 7 engines now!
if your asking do they effectively lower duration at low rpms and restore it at rpm levels exceeding about 3500 rpm then yes they do work! (but they don,t seem to be a magic cure for having picked the wrong cam in the first place like some people tend to think they are!) they also tend to be harder to adjust, noisy and generally not a huge improvement in performance, IF YOU'VE SELECTED THE CORRECT CAM IN THE FIRST PLACE .

they like many speed parts, are more a tuning aid that helps dial in a combo than a part that you can expect a big power increase from .
In many cases I see guys using them that think they will both compensate for selecting a cam that's got a bit too much duration for the ideal use on the street and also expect them to work almost like solid lifter flat tappet cam that typically give you 500rpm-1000rpm more in the power band than a a typical flat tappet hydraulic cam
they do tend to help on the low rpm, by effectively lowering duration just a bit at off idle to about 3500rpms, but Ive never seen any indication that they approach the effective rpm potential of a decent flat tappet solid lifter cam.



http://www.rhoadslifters.com/

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html

The effect of the Rhoads lifters is to allow the valves to close early at low rpm's, which means less duration for each lobe. as the push rod seat is not nearly as well supported with a cushion of compressed oil under lifters seat. The opening events are almost unchanged, because the oil under the lifter seat needs time to bleed off, but the closing events are advanced, and the results are like advancing the cam. The early closing intake valve increases the cranking pressure, the early closing exhaust valve reduces overlap and increases intake vacuum.

keep in mind they sound a bit like muted solid lifters because the lifter seats collapse much faster than standard hydraulics at idle speeds, because at idle they bleed off the oil under the lifters push-rod seat far faster, but as the rpm increases, the time required to bleed off that oil is significantly reduced resulting in the lifter lifting the valves over a longer duration as the rpms increase and time required to bleed off oil under the pushrod seats decreases

 

[grumpyvette]

I've used a new set of RHOADS LIFTERs on a friends engine after discussing with him his parts selection choices , his cam is a just a tiny bit too large in duration for the application so I suggested swapping to the rhoads lifters and made a point of telling him that they would TICK SLIGHTLY at idle, when properly adjusted, and that tightening them enough to get rid if the faint rhythmic clicking (sounds almost like properly adjusted solid lifters) would cause problems.the fast bleed lifters should sound like a rhythmic sewing machine, or more like a properly adjusted flat tappet solid cam, they are never going to be as quiet as a typical hydraulic lifter but thats fine
well after installing them the engine runs noticeably better and pulls harder but hes still having a hard time convincing his wife that the faint clicking at idle is normal.
so if you decide to go this route be aware the engine WILL have the faint rhythmic clicking (sounds almost like properly adjusted solid lifters) because your going to be hearing it for a long time!
personally I prefer solid lifter cams in performance applications but the RHOADS fast bleed hydraulics are an option thats about 1/2 way between the standard hydraulic and a mild solid lifter cam in power potential, as they do give you the option of running a few extra degrees duration and get away with it when your pushing the limits on a basically stock converter or want to run power brakes and want to maintain a bit more vacume, now it won,t make a huge improvement but if you have lets say a cam with a 215-218 duration on a 112 lsa in a 350 SBC thats running just a bit rougher than the wife likes and you can convince her to put up with a minor ticking sound at idle, the rhoads lifter will make the engine idle more like your running a 210-212 duration cam on a 112 lsa.
standard hydraulic lifter

on the rhodes lifters the clearances around the push rod seat in the lifter body allows the seat that's normally fully supported by oil pressure to bleed off that supporting oil to a much greater degree, at low rpms,theres time enough for the lifter seat to leak oil support, it allows the cam to effectively increase its duration as the rpms increase and decrease the effective duration as rpms return to near idle levels, because the time is greater at lower rpms for oil under the lifter seat to squeeze out,the change in duration is only a few degrees but it tends to help slightly in many cases
crane cams and crower cams also sell fast bleed down lifter designs
The basic fast bleed down lifter design allows the lifter seat to rapidly depress and send , pressurized,cooling lubricating oil up the hollow push rods , and by design this rapid lifter seat movement effectively reduces the cams lower rpm duration, as the cams feed and acceleration ramp rotates under the lifter base, it collapses, the hydraulically supported lifters push-rod seat taking up that clearance for a couple degrees of rotation at lower rpms, but it has far less effect as the rpms increase, remember time is a big factor here, at idle rpms (750-rpm-1000-rpm, the lifter is opening the valve only about 7-9 times a second this allows a great deal more time than, the lifter has available at lets say 6500 rpm where the valve opens and closes 54-55 times a second

ALL fast bleed lifter designs will make some noise, at idle, this is perfectly normal and expected,
most sound like properly adjusted solid lifters,
and sound a bit like an old fashion sewing machine

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MI49uG9ZSr3AIVEdbACh0XWgzJEAQYAyABEgIN-fD_BwE


Crane Cams Hi-Intensity ''Fast Bleed'' Hydraulic Lifters

Crane Hi Intensity lifters produce a "variable duration effect". At lower RPM this can reduce running duration by 6-10° and decrease valve lift by .020-.030". Hi Intensity lifters work best with a cam that requires more compression ratio than the engine actually has. Hi Intensity lifters restore vacuum, cylinder pressure and bottom end performance. As RPM increases, these lifters act more like a normal hydraulic lifter. At 2500 to 3000 RPM they will transmit the full duration and lift of the cam. Use only if the engine's compression ratio is below the minimum recommended on the application page for the cam you have chosen. Hi Intensity lifters can cause *low speed detonation* if compression is too high. Slightly more noisy than standard lifters (NOT as noisy as a mechanical cam) and can trigger knock sensors. Maximum RPM Potential: 6500 to 7000 RPM.
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http://www.jegs.com/p/Crane-Cams/Cr...Fast-Bleed-Hydraulic-Lifters/1686919/10002/-1

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...rect-custom-length-pushrods.14241/#post-72355

 

[grumpyvette]

I was recently reading a post where RHOADS replaced a set of worn lifters for a customer, under warranty even though it was not obviously their product that failed as the new lifters were installed on a used camshaft,its really nice to see they give some thought to customer problems, and even though the (problem )was not really caused by a defective part they warranted the lifters, that alone will make me buy more rhodes lifters, and suggest then more often in applications they might be used in.
Ive used several sets over the last few years and they worked without any problems, and I like the muted rhythmic click, they produce, almost like solids, at idle but noticeable softer.
and yes Ive used several sets over the years and never had the least issue, if your going to run a flat tappet hydraulic cam and don,t mind it sounding similar to properly adjusted solid flat tappet lifters at idle they work great in mild engines.
they won,t cure a seriously over camed engine but they will make a mild engine with a marginally larger cam than might be ideal much more street friendly

HOW TO INSTALL AND ADJUST ORIGINAL RHOADS LIFTERS

Before installation, each Rhoads Lifter should be fully filled with oil. To fill with oil, completely submerge each lifter upright into a container of oil and compress the inner plunger with a pushrod or screwdriver until the plunger is driven to the bottom of the lifter. Hold several seconds and release slowly. Repeat several times until the lifter is fully filled. NOTE: Soaking lifters in oil will not fill them. Also, make sure to apply assembly lube to each cam lobe and lifter bottom.

ADJUSTMENT PROCEDURE FOR ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARMS

STEP 1
With intake manifold removed and camshaft installed, begin by inserting all lifters (well oiled with assembly lube applied to the bottom of each lifter) into engine block. Keep the intake manifold off so that the lifter can be viewed while adjusting. DO NOT PUT PUSHRODS IN AT THIS POINT.

STEP 2
Bring number one cylinder to top-dead center of the compression stroke. Both intake and exhaust lifters for this cylinder should be riding on the low side (base circle) of the cam at this point. Insert pushrods securely into both intake and exhaust lifters for this cylinder only. Put rocker arms in place and make sure pushrod is securely in the rocker arm socket and ready to adjust.

STEP 3
Tighten rocker arm nuts until all play or looseness is removed and the plunger in the lifter just starts to compress. With the intake manifold off and lifters in sight, it will be easy to see when the plunger starts to compress. At this point, tighten the locknut until the plunger is compressed at least a sixteenth of an inch below the retaining ring (approximately 3/4 turn for a Small Block Chevy). While the amount the plunger is compressed is not critical, the important thing to remember is that the plunger must be compressed below the retaining ring so that there is no clearance or looseness in the valvetrain whatsoever, but not so much that the plunger bottoms out on the lifter shell. Now you can rotate the crankshaft until the next cylinder in the firing order is at top-dead-center of the compression stroke. Adjust this cylinder in the same manner as cylinder 1, and repeat the process until all cylinders are adjusted. No further adjustment will be necessary after the engine is started.

IMPORTANT NOTE: If the intake manifold is installed before adjusting lifters and you cannot visually see the point at which the lifter plunger begins to compress below the retaining ring, it is best to determine this point by moving the pushrod up and down in a vertical movement while tightening the locknut until all looseness is removed and the pushrod can no longer be moved up and down with light pressure. DO NOT DETERMINE THIS POINT BY TWISTING THE PUSHROD IN YOUR FINGERS WHILE TIGHTENING. YOU WILL BOTTOM THE PLUNGER OUT BEFORE YOU FEEL ANY RESISTANCE WHICH WILL RESULT IN AN INCORRECT ADJUSTMENT AND POSSIBLE DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE.

FOR NON ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARMS.: Install Rhoads Lifters in the same manner as you would standard hydraulic lifters. Check the lifters to see that the plungers are compressed below the retaining ring at least a 32nd of an inch and preferably between 1/16th and 1/8th of an inch when the lifters are riding on the low side of the cam. Longer pushrods are ofter needed when using larger cams with smaller base circles to get the proper plunger compression. NEVER START OR RUN ENGINE IF THE PLUNGERS ARE NOT COMPRESSED TO THE RECOMMENDED SPECIFICATIONS. ENGINE DAMAGE MAY RESULT.

IMPORTANT NOTE: RHOADS LIFTERS SOUND SIMILAR TO SOLID LIFTERS AT IDLE. THIS MILD TICKING IS GENERALLY NOT HEARD UNTIL THE ENGINE APPROACHES NORMAL OPERATING TEMPERATURE.



HOW TO INSTALL AND ADJUST RHOADS V-MAX LIFTERS

THE RHOADS V-MAX VARIABLE DURATION HYDRAULIC LIFTERS ARE ADJUSTED SIMILAR TO SOLID LIFTERS SO READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY

STEP 1

With intake manifold removed and camshaft installed, begin by inserting all lifters into engine block. It is best to keep the intake manifold off so that the lifters can be viewed while adjusting, but it is not necessary. The lifters can be properly adjusted with the intake manifold on as well.

STEP 2

Make sure the lifter being adjusted is on the low side (base circle) of the cam when adjusting, just like you would when adjusting any solid lifter cam. In this position, the valve would be in the fully closed position. For street use place a .020” feeler gauge, (use .030" for racing), or for aluminum blocks use a .010" feeler gauge (or .020" for racing) between the valve stem and rocker arm as if adjusting solid lifters, and tighten the lock nut until the lifter plunger bottoms out in the lifter shell and the valve begins to open. Now back off on the lock nut until the valve just closes and the pressure of the valve spring just begins to release on the feeler gauge. When you can just slide the feeler gauge back and forth with slight drag from the spring, the adjustment is correct. Repeat this process until all lifters are adjusted. After the adjustment, the plunger position should be nearly all the way down to the bottom of the lifter shell, and not up against the retaining ring, with no clearance in the valve train whatsoever. Please remember to adjust the lifter when the valve is in the closed position, or the adjustment will be wrong. For absolute accuracy, the adjustment can be repeated when the engine is at normal operating temperatures, but the adjustment should be made with a .020" feeler gauge (.030" for race) for both cast iron and aluminum heads when the engine is hot. Also, never adjust the lifters at zero lash or looser so that the plunger is up against the retaining clip as standard anti-pump up lifters are adjusted. This will cause valve train damage.

OTHER SUGGESTIONS

You should never adjust the lifters with more than .030 to .035 thousandths of an inch, but you can use less such as .010”-.025”. When checking valve to piston clearances, tighten the lifters to .005” and conduct the test, then readjust them to the proper setting after the test is completed.

By tightening the exhaust valve more, you will get a lopier idle, which is preferred by some who like the sound. For higher compression engines, both the valves may be tightened to help reduce pinging. Also, tightening the adjustment will reduce the ticking sound at idle. This may be helpful with sensitive knock sensors that interpret the ticking as pinging. While this will not hinder the rpm potential of the Rhoads Lifter, the reduction in lift and duration at low speeds will be minimized with a tighter adjustment, yielding smaller increases is low-end torque, engine vacuum and producing a rougher idle.

As mentioned above, Rhoads Lifters sound similar to solid lifters at idle and low speeds. Usually this solid lifter sound is not heard until the engine warms up to near operating temperatures.

This product made under at least one of the following patents: 3921609, 4524731, 4913106.
Other patents pending. VMAX is a trademark of Rhoads Lifters, Inc.

Please call us at 520-229-9375 with any questions

HOW TO INSTALL AND ADJUST THE RHOADS V-MAX FLAT TAPPET CAM KIT

THE RHOADS HYDRA-SOLID LIFTERS ARE ADJUSTED SIMILAR TO SOLID LIFTERS SO READ AND FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY

STEP 1
With intake manifold removed and camshaft installed, begin by inserting all lifters (well oiled with assembly lube applied to the bottom of each lifter) into engine block. Keep the intake manifold off so that the lifters can be viewed while adjusting.

STEP 2
Make sure the lifter being adjusted is on the low side ( base circle ) of the cam when adjusting, just like you would when adjusting any solid lifter cam. Place a .040” feeler gauge between the valve stem and rocker arm as if adjusting a solid lifter cam, and tighten lock nut until the plunger bottoms out in the lifter shell and the valve begins to open. Then back off on the lock nut until the valve just closes and the pressure just releases on the feeler gauge. Use the same feel and precision you would as if you were adjusting a solid lifter cam. Repeat until all lifters are adjusted. After the adjustment, the plunger position should be nearly all the way to the bottom of the lifter shell, well down from the retaining ring. Please remember to adjust the lifter when the valve is in the closed position, or the adjustment will be wrong.

OTHER SUGGESTIONS
You never want to adjust the lifters with more than .040”, but you can use less such as .020" to .030”. By tightening the exhaust valve more you will begin to get a slightly lopey idle, which is preferred by some who like that sound. For higher compression engines, both valves may be tightened to help reduce pinging. Please feel free to call tech support at 520-229-9375.

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012/01/hydraulic-camshafts-and-lifters-101/