When I started out hunting elk I was invited by several older very experienced guys in their 40s-70s, to come along with them on a 2 week road trip where they drove out to Colorado each year to hunt elk, and these guys camped in tents , to reduce the cost of the hunts.
these guys who were members of a local hunt club , were very selective in who they allowed to accompany or join the group.
I have to point out that many guys seem to think its your choice in equipment rather than your experience and skill that will determine your success or failure
,and in my experience thats not the case,
you can put almost any decent reasonable caliber rifle in an experienced hunters hands,
and he can make it work out!
yes its true some calibers have advantages over others but that hardly suggests you can,t effectively use a different choice.
Ive seen several guys use 270 win, and one guy quite successful with a 257 roberts and others use a 35 whelen and two use a 45/70 lever action, all have rather different characteristics
a good example would be the difference between my favorite elk rifle and my late hunting partners favorite BLR carbine, while there was a noticeable difference in power & trajectory, we were both more successful than your average elk hunters, and it was not due to the rifles we carried but due to knowing how to get in close to elk and where we were likely to find elk.
Id say 90% of you success or failure in elk hunting is due to your ability to find a decent elk within the range of your weapon of choice and having the required skill to use it effectively.
most guys don,t fail because the rifle they carry failed to work, they fail because they never got the opportunity to find and shoot at a legal elk!
guys spend a whole lot more time worrying about their equipment choice when that times far more effectively used studying topo maps, drawing the correct permits and licenses and getting off work durring the correct dates to hunt, and talking to local game biologists and ranches so they can find an elk herd in the area they intend to hunt!
you need to know how to look over a topo map,and find water, feed, bedding areas and travel restricting choke points that concentrate game!
you need to be willing to walk over that steep ridge or wade that shallow creek, that will allow you to get into areas where elk are that most hunters are unwilling to go!
this was back in the late 1960s and I was basically told , when I had asked what rifle I would need, to buy a Remington 760 in caliber 30/06 and a quality Leopold 2x-7x scope with weaver rings and mounts
as that had proven to be almost a standard and close to ideal piece of equipment, that was carried by most of the clubs members.
after about three years I decided I needed a 340 wby. and while theres zero doubt this was not due to any lack of lethality, in the performance of the 30/06 I was in my very early 20s at the time and I had expected any elk I shot to drop on the spot when hit, this had not been the case with the 30/06, as the first two elk I'd shot took off running, and while neither traveled more than 50 yards before dropping dead I was convinced I needed a heavier caliber, so Id spent a great deal of time reading any and everything I could locate reguarding elk hunting and rifles related to elk hunting.
here is my 340 wby trajectory chart
http://www.hornady.com/store/338-Cal-.338-250-gr-SP-RP/
https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/340-Weatherby-Magnum-Using-Hornady-Bullets/7056
now most of the guys in the group did carry a slide action 30/06 like Id purchased and over the years I could have saved thousands of dollars if Id stuck with that rifle and realized that you rarely drop elk in their tracks, and that the 30/06 was in fact doing its job very effectively.
yet there was one older guy in camp ,
(ALLEN) that had and was using a browning BLR in caliber 358 win, and he constantly had been bragging about its ability to "knock the elk into next week" with its speer 250 grain bullets,
and having helped drag a couple elk and field dress them I was very impressed with how deadly his carbine was. Ron was also impressed and like the look and feel of that BLR carbine so he eventually purchased one, and carried and used that BLR for about 90% of the elk hunts we went on and eventually over 30 plus years managed to kill at least 16 elk (I LOST TRACK) almost all at well under 150 yards and hunting thick timber, and most if not all were one shot kills,
having TOTAL confidence in the rifle and cartridge you use is a HUGE factor in making you both enjoy and not worry about your potential success.
I have guys bring up questions , concerning the suitability , range limitations and other factors,that many guys bring up concerning the rifles they select to hunt with,
its been my experience that most of the guys who might stay up nights worrying about their rifle or cartridges potential ability to kill at extended ranges ,
or might worry about the rifle they use, suitability, lack of rapid repeat fire potential, range limitations, or potential lack of lethality,
well, many of the same guys both lack extensive field experience and hands on practice, once you've made a few dozen hunts,
and got in some actual experience,,the concerns over your personal choice in equipment selected seems to fade, or changes get made.
my late hunting partner came to love and depend on a browning BLR in caliber 358 win, for both ELK and mule deer,on several occasions we had new guys in the club ,
ask him if he felt he was at a distinct disadvantage, after all if he sighted the rifle in using the load he came to depend on (44 grains of imr 4064 under a 250 speer bullet)
it was, 3.5" high at 100 yards, dead on at 200 yards and about 10 inches low at 300 yards (certainly a 270 win or 30/06 Springfield, shoots flatter,)
at first that question bothered him a bit, but after hunting for 30 plus years he would just smile,
and point out that he had never once even seen any elk out past about 250 yards, thus the concern over flat trajectory was a non-issue in his experience.
and the lethality of that BLR in his hands was well documented.
so when my friend RON joined the group , and we went to the local rifle range I let Ron try my 340 wby and my 760 Remington and Allen , let him try his BLR, Ron quickly decided that my 340 wby kicked him far too hard and that he did not like the 30/06 slide action, but he felt the 358 win BLR was a perfect match, so he saved up the required cash and purchased one, and I bought the matching reloading dies, needed .
the fact that common 308 win brass was much cheaper and easier to find and that Allen constantly bragged about his BLR knocking elk into next week , nearly every time we went to the local rifle range surely did not hurt Rons impression of how effective his choice was either.
this was further solidified on our first trip out to Colorado when Ron shot his first mule deer and had it drop damn near instantly on bullet impact either , and the fact that he had shot the deer at about 180 yards , was to RON also extremely impressive , because up until that time I doubt Ron had ever shot a deer past 50 yards before!
now the load we used was a speer 250 grain bullet loaded over 44 grains of IMR 4064 and a 215 fed primer, we sighted the carbine in to hit 3.5" high at 100 yards which put it dead on at 200 yards and about 11" low at 300 yards which was further than anyone in out group had needed to shoot in the heavy timber in the canyons we hunted in decades.
Ron used that carbine for over 25 years and killed 16 elk in that time span, and I can,t remember more than one , elk, that required a second shot or even one shot at over 250 yards, and the one that did require a second shot was due to Rons less than perfect shooting not the rifle, or bullet, thinking back, I felt my 340 wby certainly shot flatter and hit harder , but the end result , if you only counted shots fired vs dead elk certainly showed it was very effective and in the same class as my 340 weatherby , if dead elk were the criteria.
I eventually purchased a BLR in 358 win, and hunted with it a few times,
I like my 340 fibermark WBY a bit better,
but probably due mostly to decades of its use in my hands, familiarity,
and trust I place in that rifle, rather than any real need for its extra power
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=118
https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/358-Winchester-Hodgdon-Data/4122
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2185132834/imr-4064-smokeless-powder
notice theres 500 fps higher velocity with the 340 wby over the 358 win carbine,
yet if you limit the range to 300 yards or less the difference in trajectory with both sighted in a 3.5" high ,
at 100 yards is just not that critical to making good accurate hits within that range of 0-300 yards,
where 98% of the elk we shot were taken, yeah theres about 7" more drop at 300 yards for the 358 win,
but a center chest hold on an elk with either rifle, and a good knowledge of your rifle trajectory, still results in a very common one shot kill!
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hat-are-you-looking-for-in-an-elk-rifle.2368/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/whats-a-good-light-weight-elk-rifle.3738/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-practice-shooting-from-field-positions.9380/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/
these guys who were members of a local hunt club , were very selective in who they allowed to accompany or join the group.
I have to point out that many guys seem to think its your choice in equipment rather than your experience and skill that will determine your success or failure
,and in my experience thats not the case,
you can put almost any decent reasonable caliber rifle in an experienced hunters hands,
and he can make it work out!
yes its true some calibers have advantages over others but that hardly suggests you can,t effectively use a different choice.
Ive seen several guys use 270 win, and one guy quite successful with a 257 roberts and others use a 35 whelen and two use a 45/70 lever action, all have rather different characteristics
a good example would be the difference between my favorite elk rifle and my late hunting partners favorite BLR carbine, while there was a noticeable difference in power & trajectory, we were both more successful than your average elk hunters, and it was not due to the rifles we carried but due to knowing how to get in close to elk and where we were likely to find elk.
Id say 90% of you success or failure in elk hunting is due to your ability to find a decent elk within the range of your weapon of choice and having the required skill to use it effectively.
most guys don,t fail because the rifle they carry failed to work, they fail because they never got the opportunity to find and shoot at a legal elk!
guys spend a whole lot more time worrying about their equipment choice when that times far more effectively used studying topo maps, drawing the correct permits and licenses and getting off work durring the correct dates to hunt, and talking to local game biologists and ranches so they can find an elk herd in the area they intend to hunt!
you need to know how to look over a topo map,and find water, feed, bedding areas and travel restricting choke points that concentrate game!
you need to be willing to walk over that steep ridge or wade that shallow creek, that will allow you to get into areas where elk are that most hunters are unwilling to go!
this was back in the late 1960s and I was basically told , when I had asked what rifle I would need, to buy a Remington 760 in caliber 30/06 and a quality Leopold 2x-7x scope with weaver rings and mounts
as that had proven to be almost a standard and close to ideal piece of equipment, that was carried by most of the clubs members.
after about three years I decided I needed a 340 wby. and while theres zero doubt this was not due to any lack of lethality, in the performance of the 30/06 I was in my very early 20s at the time and I had expected any elk I shot to drop on the spot when hit, this had not been the case with the 30/06, as the first two elk I'd shot took off running, and while neither traveled more than 50 yards before dropping dead I was convinced I needed a heavier caliber, so Id spent a great deal of time reading any and everything I could locate reguarding elk hunting and rifles related to elk hunting.
here is my 340 wby trajectory chart
http://www.hornady.com/store/338-Cal-.338-250-gr-SP-RP/
https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/340-Weatherby-Magnum-Using-Hornady-Bullets/7056
now most of the guys in the group did carry a slide action 30/06 like Id purchased and over the years I could have saved thousands of dollars if Id stuck with that rifle and realized that you rarely drop elk in their tracks, and that the 30/06 was in fact doing its job very effectively.
yet there was one older guy in camp ,
(ALLEN) that had and was using a browning BLR in caliber 358 win, and he constantly had been bragging about its ability to "knock the elk into next week" with its speer 250 grain bullets,
and having helped drag a couple elk and field dress them I was very impressed with how deadly his carbine was. Ron was also impressed and like the look and feel of that BLR carbine so he eventually purchased one, and carried and used that BLR for about 90% of the elk hunts we went on and eventually over 30 plus years managed to kill at least 16 elk (I LOST TRACK) almost all at well under 150 yards and hunting thick timber, and most if not all were one shot kills,
having TOTAL confidence in the rifle and cartridge you use is a HUGE factor in making you both enjoy and not worry about your potential success.
I have guys bring up questions , concerning the suitability , range limitations and other factors,that many guys bring up concerning the rifles they select to hunt with,
its been my experience that most of the guys who might stay up nights worrying about their rifle or cartridges potential ability to kill at extended ranges ,
or might worry about the rifle they use, suitability, lack of rapid repeat fire potential, range limitations, or potential lack of lethality,
well, many of the same guys both lack extensive field experience and hands on practice, once you've made a few dozen hunts,
and got in some actual experience,,the concerns over your personal choice in equipment selected seems to fade, or changes get made.
my late hunting partner came to love and depend on a browning BLR in caliber 358 win, for both ELK and mule deer,on several occasions we had new guys in the club ,
ask him if he felt he was at a distinct disadvantage, after all if he sighted the rifle in using the load he came to depend on (44 grains of imr 4064 under a 250 speer bullet)
it was, 3.5" high at 100 yards, dead on at 200 yards and about 10 inches low at 300 yards (certainly a 270 win or 30/06 Springfield, shoots flatter,)
at first that question bothered him a bit, but after hunting for 30 plus years he would just smile,
and point out that he had never once even seen any elk out past about 250 yards, thus the concern over flat trajectory was a non-issue in his experience.
and the lethality of that BLR in his hands was well documented.
so when my friend RON joined the group , and we went to the local rifle range I let Ron try my 340 wby and my 760 Remington and Allen , let him try his BLR, Ron quickly decided that my 340 wby kicked him far too hard and that he did not like the 30/06 slide action, but he felt the 358 win BLR was a perfect match, so he saved up the required cash and purchased one, and I bought the matching reloading dies, needed .
the fact that common 308 win brass was much cheaper and easier to find and that Allen constantly bragged about his BLR knocking elk into next week , nearly every time we went to the local rifle range surely did not hurt Rons impression of how effective his choice was either.
this was further solidified on our first trip out to Colorado when Ron shot his first mule deer and had it drop damn near instantly on bullet impact either , and the fact that he had shot the deer at about 180 yards , was to RON also extremely impressive , because up until that time I doubt Ron had ever shot a deer past 50 yards before!
now the load we used was a speer 250 grain bullet loaded over 44 grains of IMR 4064 and a 215 fed primer, we sighted the carbine in to hit 3.5" high at 100 yards which put it dead on at 200 yards and about 11" low at 300 yards which was further than anyone in out group had needed to shoot in the heavy timber in the canyons we hunted in decades.
Ron used that carbine for over 25 years and killed 16 elk in that time span, and I can,t remember more than one , elk, that required a second shot or even one shot at over 250 yards, and the one that did require a second shot was due to Rons less than perfect shooting not the rifle, or bullet, thinking back, I felt my 340 wby certainly shot flatter and hit harder , but the end result , if you only counted shots fired vs dead elk certainly showed it was very effective and in the same class as my 340 weatherby , if dead elk were the criteria.
I eventually purchased a BLR in 358 win, and hunted with it a few times,
I like my 340 fibermark WBY a bit better,
but probably due mostly to decades of its use in my hands, familiarity,
and trust I place in that rifle, rather than any real need for its extra power
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=118
https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/358-Winchester-Hodgdon-Data/4122
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2185132834/imr-4064-smokeless-powder
notice theres 500 fps higher velocity with the 340 wby over the 358 win carbine,
yet if you limit the range to 300 yards or less the difference in trajectory with both sighted in a 3.5" high ,
at 100 yards is just not that critical to making good accurate hits within that range of 0-300 yards,
where 98% of the elk we shot were taken, yeah theres about 7" more drop at 300 yards for the 358 win,
but a center chest hold on an elk with either rifle, and a good knowledge of your rifle trajectory, still results in a very common one shot kill!
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hat-are-you-looking-for-in-an-elk-rifle.2368/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/whats-a-good-light-weight-elk-rifle.3738/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-practice-shooting-from-field-positions.9380/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ange-calibers-for-elk-are-not-mandatory.1275/
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