SELECTING 223 rem vs 7.62 x39 vs 308 win IN YOUR BASIC DEFENSIVE RIFLE

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
If your seriously looking into the purchase of a fire arm for home defense you obviously have three basic categories.
handguns (decent power, easily concealed and easily carried but generally best used at well under 30 yards in most hands)

thus high power rifle cartridges tend to be a less than ideal choice in most applications.
in my opinion, you'll want to own several firearms,

and firearms CHAMBERED in very commonly available cartridges like,
223,308, 30-06, 7.62/54 7.62/39 or 9mm and 45 acp for defensive use.

While you might want a 22lr and several thousand cartridges stored for years of hunting small game,
frequent, practice, and plinking, because its economical, it not a good choice for many uses.
You would not consider a 22LR as close to ideal for personal defensive use!
You'll want something larger for personal defense, and if you hunt or shoot frequently,
hand loading and bullet casting, help reduce costs and allow you to keep adequate ammo on hand.

generally you want to store or have on hand, thousands of primers and cases , ideally stored in water proof containers ,
having so is a huge plus in your bag of supplies like brass and primers and projectiles, and having a reloading press and related tools and the related skills helps immensely. having a 45/70, 357 mag and the ability to cast lead alloy bullets has potentially long term benefits

shotguns ( generally much better power, than a handgun, are for defensive use,but not easy to conceal,
much more effective than a handgun, if the correct ammos selected,slugs or 00 buckshot

but (generally limited to about 50-80 yards max effective range) far more than required in most cases.

MILITARY STYLE (CLONE)SEMI-AUTO RIFLES(ideally chambered in handgun cartridges) can be
suppressed
all choices in rifles or ammo, will be a compromise in several areas
(hard to easily conceal, compared to a handgun,

but rifles have decent power, much more range and accuracy potential.
, generally higher ammo price, but in many cartridge choices, frequently more easy ammo availability etc,
and ( any carbine or rifle should be selected too have at least 300 yard range minimum)
equipped with both good optics and iron sights,

MOST OF THE COMMON MILITARY STYLE RIFLES,
you'll see for sale are available in these three calibers, these are your common choices
,keep in mind any fire-arms rather useless without a decent supply of matched ammo.
(so have at least 400-1000 cartridges, and 5-6 magazines and a few minor spare repair,

parts, properly stored)
what would you select and WHY?
keep in mind having commonly available ammo is critical here, making ,
pistol cartridge chambered carbines a good option,
but rifle chambered carbines may be potentially more dangerous for in the home defensive use.
rifle cartridge, chambered carbines have too much penetration in some cases.
223 rem (AR),
308 win, M1A1) :like::thumbsup:
7.62 x 39 (AK)
top choices for a military semi clone, rifle
the 30/06 (Garand) or if your limited a bolt action 6.5mm Swedish Mauser is a valid option
think through your options and consider what might happen if you miss your intended target inside your home!

A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined,
but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition
to maintain a status of independence from any who
might attempt to abuse them,
which would include their own government.


The best defense against evil men,
are good men who are skilled at violence.


you would have a difficult time finding a pistol caliber carbine,

more dependable than a semi auto 9mm uzi clone!
submachine-gun-isolated-on-white-picture-id519802099

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/all-magazines/rifles

military, based rifle designs MUST be durable and dependable, and at least semi accurate. they must have good parts interchangeability ,
and be designed to operate under less than ideal conditions with minimal cleaning, and maintenance.
2"-3" 100 yard accuracy is often considered adequate,
and the average,off the rack, rifle,
may have issues consistently duplicating that accuracy level,
but most commercial clones with a few tweaks and commercial parts,after being mildly reworked, easily provide better accuracy consistently,
both the better quality clones of the AR15 and M14 can be tweaked to provide excellent accuracy (especially the heavy barrel match versions)
(keep in mind ammo quality, being used, maters a great deal)
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personally I think every RESPONSIBLE ,
and emotionally mature, adult thats willing too train with,
and properly maintain a rifle, and use it safely ,should purchase and own an AR15, AK47, mini 14,clone,
or M1a style semi auto or similar rifle, and have at least 500 cartridge's and 6-9 magazines in reserve.

yeah that would include the gals and probably require you own a gun safe,
for safe storage, of rifle and ammo,
and require you practice, with the rifle, several times a year minimum
clipmag.jpg

for the few uneducated members
clips are frequently used to transport ammo, and efficiently quickly, refill magazines
if you only have a couple magazines the 50 cal cans are a decent option
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a couple 40 mm ammo cans are about ideal if you have a bunch of magazines
the 40mm ammo cans easily hold twice plus the number of magazines and ammo that a 50 cal ammo can holds

40mmnew.jpg

http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/ammo-cans-storage-containers/40mm-ammo-box.html

its a damn good idea to own several of the 50 cal ammo cans if you have a couple extra pistol or rifle magazines.
dirty, rusty magazines are usually nearly useless and become
permanently damaged rapidly.
(don,t forget to use the zip-lock bags and a storage prep like written up above)
but if you have a few dozen , upgrading to the larger 40-mm ammo can ,
makes a great deal more sense economically as your container generally,
costs less than twice as much as the 50 cal cans,
but holds MORE than twice the volume in contents.


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...e-223-may-not-be-lethal-enough-for-civilians/
remember any rifles worthless without a good supply of ammo, so Id suggest stocking up with all you can afford, plus an assortment of smaller internal repair parts and a good cleaning kit, so you can keep it operational
223/5.56 is the common AR 15 /m 16 caliber
if you do the required research you'll very quickly find that there's a huge selection of various components available, you'll obviously want too select the components that match your intended use.
complete kits are available to custom build your particular idea of the ideal rifle.


http://www.model1sales.com/
http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=79
http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=346

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/cat...rts-by-gun-model/ar-15/complete-build-kits.do

If YOU buy a complete kit , for $550-$700- it includes all the required parts except the lower receiver,
I would suggest a heavy stainless fluted barrel to have better heat dissipation characteristics,building a custom AR 15 is generally very easy and fairly cheap, compared too several other options.
and a chrome bolt assembly as they are a bit less fouling prone, yes it increases weight , but it helps accuracy and durability.

you can build an AR15 like an erector set, mix & matching components to build your ideal carbine.
(something you can,t do nearly as easily building an AK)

most larger gun shops will sell you a stripped lower AR 15 receiver for just under $100, so if you assemble the parts yourself,
you should easily have a quality rifle for under $700-$900 dependent on components selected.
be aware youll need to carefully select options and don,t forget iron sights
HBAR2.jpg

https://store.springfield-armory.co...CnQ&utm_content=173322723&utm_source=hs_email
heres an accessory that might prove critical, but its a bit expensive

7.62 x 39mm is your most common AK 47 style rifle cambering
AK carbines are very dependable and reasonably priced,
many various models are for sale at under $600
ID strongly suggest selecting a MILLED not stamped receiver version.
you'll typically not find an AK to be as accurate as an AR15 or M14 but its certainly capable of hits out at 250 yards on an
opponent

ak47j.jpg


I would STRONGLY suggest ...if you select any AK based 7.62/39 cartridge based rifle,
you insist on one made with a FORGED receiver, (not stamped sheet metal) and one that accepts original 30 shot AK magazines


one factor not being discussed is that theres a world of difference in various AK rifle;s as to the quality and potential accuracy
most surplus AK ammo is crap, mill surplus quality, accuracy was never a huge concern,
if you hand load that can be significantly improved on, speer 150 grain .311 bullets over rl7 powder tends to work ok.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullet/2217
no one who's done extensive testing will begin to tell you the AR platform does not on average have some advantages,
but not all AK based rifles are hopelessly inaccurate,
military stamped steel receivers , iron sights short sight radius,
and non-chrome lined barrels like the picture above, tend to shoot 2"-5" 100 yard groups

forged receiver versions with chrome-lined barrels like the picture below,
readily accept the 30 round magazines
and 2"-3" 100 yard groups with iron sights are quite common and with a decent scope and mounts
and longer barrels ,1.5":-2" groups are rather the norm, yeah the Norinco trigger sucks, but you can improve it and get used to using it.
it will never beat a bull barrel AR for accuracy, but its certainly a decent 100-150 yard deer rifle if proper ammo is used in skilled hands
if your hunting hogs in florida

the sporter AK, rifles pictured above are a very good value
they have forged receivers and chrome bores, and longer and generally more accurate barrels in my experience

if your hunting hogs in florida
norsp.jpg

the sporter AK clones like the one pictured above, are a very effective and useful firearm.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullets/311/311-150-sptz-bullet
akml2.jpg

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https://loaddata.com/Article/BenchTopics/Handloads-for-the-762x39/101

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=7.62 x 39&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=


https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/9/handloading-the-762x39-mm-m43/
https://loaddata.com/Article/BenchTopics/Handloads-for-the-762x39/101
https://ultimatereloader.com/2017/04/14/high-performance-7-62x39mm-reloads-for-the-ak-47/
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Caliber Specific Load Data/Complete Reloading Manual for the 7.62x39.pdf
https://rifleshooter.com/2017/04/re...load-development-with-125-and-150-gr-bullets/

7.62 x 51mm or 308 win is available in the M1A1 and AR10 variants
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IF YOU OWN OR BUY AN M1A1
1. Clearance the stock from rubbing on the gas cylinder or op rod.
2. Clearance the hand guard from rubbing on the stock.
3. Properly shim the gas cylinder until gas lock snugs around 5 o'clock.
4. Grease the front band where it touches the ferrul.
5. Verify your action with tilt tests on oprod/bolt and piston.



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(the concept of making your shots count and accurate shot placement seems lost on the "SPRAY AND PRAY" mentality)
this seems a bit like the military where the 223 has a less than ideal reputation and the 7.62 has long been considered far more effective, but because the average soldier can carry twice as many 223 vs 7.62 for the weight , and the 223 is easier to control under full auto fire ,the 223 was selected.
(personally Id rather trust my lift to a m 14 and carry 300 cartridges than a ar 15 with 600 cartridges) simply because I know the m14 reaches out further punches through more cover and one decent center mass hits usually fatal, and the guy behind the guy can also be killed.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/968185387/PTR-Indust-PTR-91F-HK91-G3-Clone-308-w-5-20-Rd-Mag.htm
theres always a trade off, between the power and weight in any rifle and ammo selection, you can go for the smaller lighter caliber like a 223, pushs a common 55 grain projectile that allows you to carry a great deal of ammo but the lighter weight/mass of the projectile limits the effective energy the projectile retains as the distance increases, this is why a 223 has difficulty penetrating a standard military helmet at ranges exceeding 500 yards and why the heavier 308 caliber at a slightly lower velocity can still do so at 800 plus yards.
the 308 hits harder at 450 yards than the 223 does at 50 yards

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now you might think this is rather meaningless as most combat occurs at under 300 yards, but that same increased inertia means that the enemy combatant has far less chance of a bullet penetrating light cover like a car door, or wood fence with a 223 vs a 308 that would easily zip through what resists a 223.
the trade off is you can carry about twice as many cartridges in 223 vs 308, so you need to be a bit more conservative spraying rounds indiscriminately with the 308, as the typical battly load might be 300-600 , vs 600-1000 with a 223,
in most rifles cambered for the Russian 7.62/39 the cartridge power is about mid way between the 223 rem and 308 win but in most of the AK variants it lacks accuracy, past 300 yards, but the rifles have excellent durability/dependability
(theres always trade offs)



before I post my ideas lets hear yours

308 180gr Sierra hpbt Match 2600fps 26in bbl .223 federal gold medal match 69gr sierra hpbt match 2950 (factory load)

........................308.....223............308..........223...................................308...............223
Range yds....Path in........................Velocity fps...................................Energy ft/lbs
Muzzle..........-1.5............................2600........2950....................................2702............1333
50........... ... -0.1............................2510................................................... 2517
100............... 0.0..........0.0.............2421.........2642....................................2343............1069
150..............-1.4.............................2335.....................................................2179
200..............-4.4..........-3.5.............2251........2353.....................................2025 .............848
250............. -9.2.............................2168.....................................................1878
300........... -15.8.........-13.5............2086........2084.....................................1740..............665
350............-24.3.............................2007.....................................................1610
400........... -35.1.............................1929........1832.....................................1487.............514
450............-48.2.............................1853.....................................................1373
500........... -63.8.............................1780........1604.....................................1266.............394
550........... -82.1.............................1708.....................................................1166
600..........-103.5.............................1639.....................................................1073
650..........-128.0.............................1572...................................................... 987
700..........-156.1.............................1507...................................................... 908
750......... -188.0.............................1446.......................................................835
800..........-224.1.............................1387.......................................................769


personally I think the government ought to promote civilian marksmanship,
something like having a once a year , optionally available test,
for any adult 18 years old and older,
that can legally own a firearm, and have the tests available locally,
(within 25 miles of, ) every zip code.
(every weekend the test should be available,
the at your local outdoor rifle range test that certifies your skills, )
that you can take up to three times in any one year,
and if you can shoot well enough with a military style, bolt action or semi-auto,rifle of your choice,
in any commonly available military caliber 223, 308, win-or -30/06 service rifle clone,
that you own personally,
if you can shoot well enough,
(so you can put 8 out of 10 shots in a 10" circle at 200 yards shooting offhand)
or 8 of 10 shots in a 6" circle while sitting,
,in under 2 minutes time,)
you get a $1000 tax credit for that year.:D
if both you and your wife can quality thats a $2000,
FOR that year's tax credit, that you mail in with your tax return.
if you can shoot well enough,
it would be a good reason to keep in practice and own a firearm.

if I'm going to get involved in serious social disputes
Id vastly prefer my M1A1, having the ability to punch through light cover and body armor, and have no tell tail smoke from a shot, and being able to easily hit targets with a scope mounted at 600 yards plus has advantages, and carrying (8) 20 cartridge magazines , in a vest, certainly beats a muzzle loader with maybe 50 shots in a belt pouch
m14OD.png


btw a 215 federal primer and 3031, 4064 or 4895 powders and a 168 grain-180 grain bullet all work well in a 308 if proper loads are used
7A617AA9-7262-4DC4-BA11-3E1C549AB80A.jpeg


https://gundigest.com/article/5-scout-rifles-survival

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/sunday-gunday-6-best-survival-rifles-market/

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-survival-rifles/

https://www.skilledsurvival.com/best-survival-rifles-for-shtf/

https://www.skilledsurvival.com/best-survival-guns-you-want-to-own/
 
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Its long Vid Grumpy.
May run out of bandwidth data.
 
I have the AR-15 my opinion its a real good gun. Mine eats anything I feed them though I'm not crazy about the AR pistol I built its just too hard to hold & shoot but I had to have one. The AK is just fun to shoot & it eats anything I think it will fire blank rounds. I havn't built a 308 AR yet. My next build will be a longer barrel AR for coyote killing.
 
Well , I have all of them...They are all different tools for different purposes...:cool:

Same here, but not as full assault weapons which are unattainable by most as in the video. Each has a purpose, and should not be used unless pressed into it.
Home built multiple weapons of AR15s-AK47s-AR10s using 80% receivers.All legal to build and own. No background checks or registrations.
M40A1A Remington 700 with 10 round box magazines for reaching out and touching, sighted in at 800 yards.
Various other weapons include 9mm-4----45 govt- Remington ssR1-1--- 2 other 45s for cc---S$W 357 revolver/w 6" barrel-1 --Henry Survival Rifle/w scope and quick detach---380 Rugers-2 and misc. pistols of odd calibers such as 45LC/410--38 Spcl-- 44 revolvers-2---22 cal. -6--- plus 8 various gauges of shotguns in single and semi automatic.
It all boils down to what you are going to do as to which you will use or forced into using what you have.
My choice to be in my go bag for SHTF is the Henry and the Remington 45 as well as an AK. Just my preferences. Ammo will be the biggest factor on any choice anyone makes.
 
I went to the local outdoor range for about 3 hours yesterday, and I had my neighbor who brought a brand new AR 15 he purchased , that he wanted to sight in, so he dragged me along (did not take a great deal of persuasion)
hes never owned a center fire military style rifle of any type.
at first he was amazed at the lack of recoil,
once we got it sighted in at 3" high at 100 yards (the standard way I sight in all my center fire rifles) he was amazed that he could hit the 300 yard gong once he got the hang of the sights , but the 500 yard gong was totally safe, he seemed all too sure that was out of range for anyone ......until I put three rather quick rapidly fired hits on it from a sitting position with my bolt action 375 H&H carbine (to be fair, I'm very familiar with that carbines trajectory as its my elk hunt back-up timber rifle on many hunts and the 500 yard gong is a 12" diam steel plate) (while the 100, yard ,200, and 300 yard gongs are 8" diam, steel plates)
he also noticed that when his AR hit the plat it "TINGED" while the 375 H&H carbine "CLANGED and SWUNG" the plate on, it suspension chains on bullet impact.
no mater what rifle you select ,(sporting or military clone) becoming very familiar with its trajectory, function and handling characteristic will be critical to effective use.
and youll need to find out what ammo functions the best and get a good quality cleaning kit, patches and bore solvent,spray oil, and learn the basics of disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly
but thats to be expected as he is shooting a 55 grain projectile at about 3000fps and the carbine throws a 270 grain at about 2550 fps




 
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I want to start reloading 7.62x39 for the AK. I have always been happy with cheap ammo but with the way things are going I may not be able to get fun ammo in the near future. I've not looked real hard yet but my plan is to buy some brass ammo to save the cases. I'm sure someone makes bullets to reload with& I have several rifle powders. BTW Grumpy I was shooting my Muzzleloader last weekend 6 shots into a paper plate at 75 yards off bags if I get some more practice I may do the early deer season for doe
 
I got asked why? I seem to favor the M1A1 semi auto version of the M14 in 308 cal.
simple logic dictates the use of the most effective tool for a given job,
now obviously knowing what your trying to accomplish with a given tool has a huge effect on the tool you'll select,
if your my age you might or might not have fought in Vietnam,with an m16,
but you certainly knew a few guys you went to school with that did,
and I don,t remember a single one that wanted to trade his M14 ,
for the MATTY MATEL plastic fantastic ,
or in a few cases the JAM-O-MATIC
M16A1.jpg

as it was commonly referred to in its early versions .
yes the current AR clones have been vastly improved over the last 50 years, but initially it was not the ideal weapon.
and a persons experience with ,and long familiarity with a given tool and its capability's can just as certainly effect the choice made.
your choice could be different and to be fair many more guys select the AR15 platform as its current military issue, VS the older M14, which limits the ammo youll carry due to ammos greater weight. but you can ask anyone who fought with the M14 they will tell you it was heavy but damn dependable and seldom failed to fire, or hit where you aimed it, if kept even semi clean

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rather than the current AR15 semi auto clone of the M16 full auto military rifle when its rather obvious why the modern military swapped to the M16!

http://survivalcache.com/survival-debate-308-win-vs-223-rem/
.308 Win. SRC: (link to full specs here)
Overall Length: 38” with stock extended, 34.1875” with stock collapsed
Weight: 7.55 lbs. with empty 20-round magazine
Barrel length: 16.5”
MSRP: $1,413.00

.223 SRC: (link to full specs here)
Overall Length: 36.125” with stock extended, 32.375” stock collapsed
Weight: 6.3 lbs with empty 30-round magazine
Barrel length: 16”
MSRP: $1,040.00

Keep in mind that M14 based platforms, HK91s, and FN-FAL based platforms are all substantially heavier than their AR10 counterparts.

Individual Loadout Comparison (data from 7.62x51mm NATO Wikipedia)

RIFLE CALIBER WT. OF LOADED MAG 22lb. AMMO LOAD
M14 .308 Win 1 lb 7 oz. / 20 rounds 14 mags – 280 rounds
M16 .223 Rem 0 lb 10.5 oz / 20 rounds 33 mags – 660 rounds
HBAR2.jpg

the much improved colt H-bar is a far better design that the original in my opinion
the smaller cartridge seems to have more than enough advantages, lower weight, less recoil more than adequate power & accuracy, etc. to make the older caliber and rifle obsolete?

well Id point out that would be a personal choice mostly in my case based on both past hunting experience, using small calibers and my trust that each shot fired from a 30 caliber rifle has more of the potential to get the intended job done, and noticing that most of the guys at the local ranges, that have and use AR15 rifles, seem to think that squeezing off several rapid shots at any target, is border-line mandatory.
If I am ever forced into truly defending myself, I think back to several times that I have seen the 223 caliber rifles used on deer and hogs, and theres not the least doubt that the caliber is 100% lethal in the hands of a well trained rifleman, but Ive seen several times , over the years ,when well hit deer ran with zero indication they were hit, only to fall dead as a stump after running various distances, now Ive seen similar results with a 308 but they were much less frequent and the distances traveled much shorter.
I've talked to several combat vets that expressed similar experiences, thus my reluctance to trust the 223 as much as a 308.
another factor is that from experience I know for a fact that at 300 yards a car body will stop a lot of 223 ammo from fully penetrating and still exiting the far side while a 308 can usually zip through both sides easily

http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/magsclips
 
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while the fal, AND g3 CLONES ARE GOOD RIFLES I PREFER A SYNTHETIC STOCKED STAINLESS BARRELED m1a1
OBVIOUSLY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE INFLUENCES YOUR CHOICE

Is .308 Ammo Safe to Shoot in 7.62x51mm Rifles? Can I shoot 7.62x51 ammo in my .308 Rifle?
That's a very common question among shooters. The short answer is that you can fire 7.62x51 rounds in a .308 rifle safely but it's not suggested that you fire .308 ammo in a 7.62x51mm rifle.

The .308 civilian firearm evolved from the military 7.62x51 rifle. In fact, the 308 Winchester made its debut two years after NATO adopted the 7.62x51mm rifle for its military purposes. While the cartridges are very similar, there are some subtle differences that may play a role in how comfortable you feel using them interchangeably. The image below illustrates those differences and what it might mean for you as a serious shooter.

BA_Info_Grain.jpg


Share This With Other Shooters

How Shooters Use .308 Rifle Ammunition

Traditionally, shooters will use the full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds of .308 at the shooting range for target practice. Common FMJ .308 ammo is typically available in bulk here at BulkAmmo.com. PMC’s .308 Win Ammo is a popular choice for plinking or range use.

More elaborate bullets or projectiles are available for hunters or match-grade shooters. These cartridges feature expanding hollow points or soft points that can do significant damage with their target. Shooters looking for match-precision will most likely be interested in rounds containing the highest quality components like Federal’s Sierra Match King, a round that features a hollow point boat-tail bullet along with exceptional performance and incredible accuracy. Remington is one of the more popular manufacturers of 308 hunting ammo and their Core-Lokt bullet is a very well-known choice for American whitetail deer hunters. You can find the 150 grain 308 hunting round here at BulkAmmo.com.

Ballistic Performance of .308 Winchester
In terms of performance, you can find a fairly narrow breadth of bullet weights available for 308 rifles. In common use, the lightest projectile available is generally a 150 grain round that offers a muzzle velocity of around 2,800 feet per second. Keep in mind, there are some very light loads available that are less common. For instance, Hornady does offer a 125 grain 308 round promising reduced recoil. The heaviest round, most frequently used in match-grade rounds is 175 grain and travels at about 2,650 feet per second in terms of muzzle velocity.
 
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http://www.k-var.com/shop/VPR-308-02.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-caliber-carbines-and-similar-weapons.15993/
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HERE'S A DECENT VALUE IN A DEPENDABLE 308 CALIBER RIFLE BASED ON THE ULTRA RELIABLE RPK TYPE ACTION
(the larger and more solidly built AK style rifle)
a M1A1 would cost roughly 1.5 times too twice as much, and while it would be a bit more accurate I doubt it would be more significantly reliable

https://www.americanweaponscomponents.com/tag/founding-fathers-second-amendment/
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the FN-FAL is a far more accurate, longer range, and better made rifle than the AK47
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anyone with a functional brain understands
CRIMINALS BY DEFINITION,IGNORE LAWS
RESTRICTING THE RIGHTS , AND ACCESS TO FIREARMS FROM THE LAW ABIDING,
ONLY ENHANCES AND PROMOTES CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR

passing gun laws to disarm the vast majority of gun owners who don't cause problems

will be even less effective than passing a law to out-law house fly's too prevent garbage
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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty or Safety!
Ben Franklin


The Second Amendment: The RIGHT to bear ARMS! THE amendment that secures ALL other articles of the Constitution!
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I think one huge reason the basic AR15 product line, and rifle design is so darn popular,
is its an erector set gun design with standardized, and easily interchangeable , mill spec parts,
making almost all parts from dozens of manufacturers interchangeable to a large extent
.
now theres dozens, if not thousands of non-compatible configurations
,but the fact is that if you do the required research you'll find millions of compatible config combinations
but in most cases a few basic configurations,are interchangeable with almost all parts available
and if you stick to similar configurations theres a great deal of interchangeability.
and theres even some adapter parts to make, some odd combos compatible

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-buying-stripped-lower-ar-receivers-but.8620/

example if you want a replacement barrel even a semi-skilled home gunsmith,
could easily replace a ar15 barrel.,
unlike most of the other rifle designs one might select to use.


I would strongly suggest the heavy fluted barrels be used in any AR15 based rifle,
while its true it adds considerable weight , the heavy fluted and ideally stainless or chrome lined barrels,
have advantages as they are frequently noticeably more accurate and tend to handle heat and wear issues better,
and both barrels or interchangeable upper assembly's are easy to swap


https://www.ar15part.com/product-p/20223wssbbl1x8.htm

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/shop/barrels/varmint-predator-barrels.html

https://www.eabco.net/AR-15-Bull-Ba...em-National-Match-Varmint-Barrel_p_14662.html

https://warnescopemounts.com/precisionvarmint-rifle-build-part-4-barrel/

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-15-complete-upper-receiver/

http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=346

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=275

https://www.midwayusa.com/20-and-greater/br?cid=21489

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/B...rmint______barrel_length_and_twist/12-519322/

https://midstatefirearms.com/24-SS-...-223-Wylde-Upper-Gen3-slim-rail-24ssupper.htm

https://kriegerbarrels.com/

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/index.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/AR15_HBARs.htm
 
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I think one huge reason the basic AR15 product line, and rifle design is so darn popular,
is its an erector set gun design with standardized, and easily interchangeable , mill spec parts,
making almost all parts from dozens of manufacturers interchangeable to a large extent
.
now theres dozens, if not thousands of non-compatible configurations
,but the fact is that if you do the required research you'll find millions of compatible config combinations
but in most cases a few basic configurations,are interchangeable with almost all parts available
and if you stick to similar configurations theres a great deal of interchangeability.
and theres even some adapter parts to make, some odd combos compatible

Just like Chebby V8 parts in the first gen building.
 
one of my neighbors has recently decided he needs a defensive rifle,
and has become rather fixated on owning a varmint weight barrel,ar15 clone,
after testing several ar15 clones various local guys own.
after looking around he has to figure about $1000 for the basic rifle ,built the way he prefers,
and $270-$450 for a decent scope and mounts,
a rifle like that provides a decent compromise if your limited to owning only one firearm to keep in the home, and still have a valid effective defensive tool,
with a few hundred yards of the accurate range that could be used to hunt deer if required,
personally I prefer an M14 but its a very nice rifle hes ordering.
now obviously you can purchase a basic AR15 clone for under about $650 lots of places ,
but not one with the accuracy and options

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-buying-stripped-lower-ar-receivers-but.8620/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-ar-15-version-would-you-consider.12473/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...d-be-ideal-on-an-ar-15-for-general-use.12844/
H22742-L227992618_original.jpg


arvnm.png
 
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