selecting a good self defence handgun

Nothing matters more than hits. When you find the largest caliber you're comfortable shooting, practice and carry then practice and carry some more. Whatever the caliber is, you're ready. Proficiency with what you carry trumps larger bore misses every trip of the train.
 
FWIW, I've owned a fairly large number of handguns over the years. Following ones come to my mind: Margolin .22 LR, S&W m. 17 6", 686 6", 29 6", 629 3" Lew Horton (ouch!), 645, 469, 66 2.5", 60 2", CZ 75, Beretta 92F, Glock 19 and then some. Today I have two 9 mm pistols a FN HP Mk III from early 90s and a P226 made in good ol' West Germany - bought it new. Apart from the 9s I also have a Kimber Raptor II .45 ACP.

Using a handgun (or any weapon) in selfdefence over here is a guaranteed trip behind bars no matter what the circumstances were. Period. So that leaves just sport shooting in various ways. For the past few years I have noticed that I always pack my FN HP when I go to the range. Perhaps it's because I' getting more and more old school, or because I like it's feel and medium size (for me) or maybe because it suits my FN FAL .308 Match from 1983 perfectly.

As a caliber for me a 9 mm would do in any imaginable scenario just fine.

I don't have a pic of the FN HP but it's similar to this. That FAL is mine.

Image250.jpg


fal.jpg
 
Walde said:
Using a handgun (or any weapon) in self-defence over here is a guaranteed trip behind bars no matter what the circumstances were. Period.
Ok Ive got to ask?
does that indicate theres no murders, and rapist's or armed home invasions over there,
or that your just suppose to get killed , robbed or raped and its just standard practice to let criminals do as they please?

now, over here the law varys by state, in states like, MASSACHUSETTS and NEW JERSEY , WISCONSIN and ILLINOIS the laws over here make legal self defense very difficult

but in many states we have "CASTLE LAW"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

http://www.gunlaws.com/FloridaCastleDoctrine.htm

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-r-0052.htm

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry ... _maps.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_ ... ted_States
 
grumpyvette said:
...or that your just suppose to get killed , robbed or raped and its just standard practice to let criminals do as they please?
Yes, we are supposed to roll over and say "Please, go ahead."

The crime rate is going up but in present political climate and especially in Europe in general, the use of a weapon (firearm or other) to protect yourself or your property will not be legalized in my lifetime.

I don't understand these current ways anymore.
 
I just picked up the Glock 36 in 45 ACP, and I love it! Looking to put the +2 extended grip so I can fit 8 rounds in there!! I shot good with the Sig .45 but was all over the place w/ the Glock. It was the first time I fired it but DAMN! I've never shot that bad! I'm going to pick up a laser-boresight to dial every thing in. I also have hollow-points in the first 4 rounds. Good Times! Lets hit that new range Grump!!
 
Doodad said:
I just picked up the Glock 36 in 45 ACP, Lets hit that new range Grump!!


Id love to believe me!
but Im stuck baby sitting grand kids most of the time lately
as soon as that clears up Ill be going for sure.
 
Also a footnote, for you South Fl members, you can shoot your own ammo at the Gator gun range in WPB. Took a second trip and once again I couldnt shoot that gun for shit! My wife was able to group up in the head. Just not seeing it...
 
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/849728/posts

http://www.chuckhawks.com/beginners_stopping_power.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_StoppingPower.htm

http://stevespages.com/page8f.htm

studies like this do more to confuse new guys, about what hand gun caliber is effective than most things, if you read thru youll see a ton of inconsistency.
the truth is both shot proper placement and deep penetration are very important and the more energy and tissue destruction you can produce IN CRITICAL ANATOMY AREAS with a single shot the more likely that youll instantly stop a determined adversary
read the links but keep in mind when your lifes on the line a good 12 ga shot gun loaded with heavy shot directed to vital anatomy on an opponent at close range is very hard to improve on.
if you need something concealable 357 mag or larger is a decent choice but you better practice a good deal because no caliber or weapon in untrained hands is nearly as effective as it can be.

IVE used all three of the weapons linked below on large hogs and have seen what they are capable of doing


FIRST CHOICE IN HOME DEFENSE
BenelliM1Super90x.jpg

second choice
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youll need decent sites you can see in crappy lighting
http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/ ... sets/i-dot
carry choice
glock20.gif


 
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BTW - fantastically enough the Belgian made FN 5-7 is out... because the ammunition (even the civilian rounds) are illegal in Belgium.

They develop a fantastic weapon... but not available in country. Go figure!
 
theres been a great deal of discussion about what makes a great defensive hand gun and while I doubt many of us have much if any experience shooting actual muggers and axe murderers at close range with a handgun. theres got to be some guys that work in emergency rooms and morgues who do occasionally see the damage gunshots produce, so Ive got to wonder how many major caliber bullets, 9mm and larger actually punch thru and exit the body vs remain internally.
obviously bullet design and construction,body size etc. effect results, but having shot a good bit of large game animals with a 10mm,357mag and 44 mag I seldom see bullets not exit, so when I see someone say they don,t think a 357,40 S&W or 45 acp will shoot clear thru an assailant, or drop one with a good hit, I wonder how much is based on endless tv show shoot outs where the good guys always seem to survive and the M.E. always finds the bullet, and how much is reality where the bullet passes thru and is long gone or mangled against a object behind the guy shot!
I carry a 10mm or 45acp pistol 90% of the time and Ive used both on deer and hogs in the past,mostly because its legal around here to hunt with,and I wanted to see if they were able to provide the necessary results I was looking for, if I was going to have my life depend on those as defensive tools. from the results Ive seen (admittedly a limited sample of about 5-6 mixed hogs/deer,over the last 20 plus years,with each caliber hand gun)the 10mm hits a bit harder than the 45acp and has at least up to now always exited on heart/lung shots while the 45 acp has failed too exit occasionally on hogs, but both are obviously capable of delivering a single hit mortal wound,on deer or hogs shot at close ranges . I used to occasionally hunt with a 8" 357 mag revolver and its been a better hunting tool and certainly up to the job in my experience but nearly impossible to use as a concealed carry handgun.
Id say better than 80% plus of the bullets Ive shot game with have exited and you seldom if ever get instant kills with a pistol or revolver in those three calibers. keep in mind in florida a resident can easily legally kill 4 or more deer a year state wide.
I have nearly zero worry about over penetration hitting kids as I only have the wife and she sleeps in the same room, and IM not in the habit of going out into high crime areas, and live in a rural area where homes are on 5-25 acre lots hundreds of yards apart

this is rather interesting info
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
 
personally I think GLOCK is missing the boat by not offering a 10mm in a long slide version with a 6.375" barrel/slide assembly
that and a bit more robust slide to frame strength, would be a really nice combo for hunting and self defense where concealment was of little concern like the military that way you could easily push a 165 grain bullet to 1400 fps which would allow 700 ft lbs plus of muzzle thump at decent pressure and a long enough site radias for easy hits out past 50 yards, sort of a long slide glock 20 with a 15 cartridge capacity sure would in my opinion beat that berreta 9mm as a defensive handgun, and the longer heavier slide would reduce felt recoil a bit for the few that can,t handle the glock 20
a custom combo shoulder stock holster would be nice like the military high powers had

shoulderstock.jpg

Ive found that ammo makes a huge difference in a glock 20 accuracy
Ive also found the better aftermarket 6" barrels DO aid accuracy, and BLUE DOT powder and a 180 grain seem to be a sweet combo in my pistol

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=942

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/197373 ... box-of-100
 
I got asked if , carrying a small revolver or pocket pistol as a defensive weapon choice was, really a good idea,or would a larger caliber be far better?, the questioner, was convinced that because most confrontations would be at point blank ranges of under 10 feet statistically, there would be little point in worrying about accuracy and he could always fire several times""

Id point out that your Questions dealing with two separate sub-questions, ACCURACY and EFFECTIVE RANGE or how far away the pistol will still remain effective at dropping an opponent.
well if hes more than a few yards away youll have legal issues about whether he was really a mortal threat requiring you to shoot!
And I,d point out that the longer the site radias is the easier it is to accurately aim a pistol but even short barrel pistols can be accurate, so while your small defensive pistol might be easily able to place 5 shots in a 2" circle at 25 yards off a good bench rest hold, your never going to be able to do that off hand with most smaller pistols and the common crappy sights. and I doubt youll have a valid threat over 7 yards distance.
ID be mostly concerned with my ability to stop a violent opponent at under 20 feet, and I doubt youll get several well placed shots
you also want to remember you might only get a second or two to defend yourself and might only get one or two shots off, you generally won,t be selecting the time or place or conditions, and your opponent will try to use every advantage he or THEY CAN, theres no way you can assume a single opponent.
now the question becomes, can you reasonably expect to stop an opponent with a single or only a few randomly placed center mass hits?
the best advice Ive heard and what Ive tried to follow is "don,t carry anything you would be very hesitant trust your life too in a gun fight"
or put a different way, if you knew you would be involved in a confrontation involving you either killing an opponent or him killing you,in the next two months, would you still select your current carry fire arm?
chances are excellent, that most of the guys that carry 32 and 380 , and 38 caliber pocket pistols would want to upgrade , to a 357, 40, or 45 caliber and a pistol with a bit longer more accurate reach with a bit more authority
 
I was asked by my brother-in-law to go with him to a local gun show today , he had the idea he needed a new concealed carry pistol and he decided it had to have a built in lazer pointer .
now personally Im not 100% convinced a lazer pointer sight system, built into a small concealable hand guns, the ideal accessory but I can see where it has some value under some conditions.
he looked at dozens of options and decided on this pistol below
swbgp.png

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y

its very small and easily concealed and light weight, but its a 380 acp with a 6 shot magazine, while its very true that under most conditions ranges will be very short and a 380 acp can deliver a fatal wound its a bit too small for my taste and Id have a very hard time feeling secure with that pistol and caliber as a primary defensive weapon.
he did get it at a discount $350 but I'm going to be interested to see its accuracy potential, and ease of operation.


one other friend purchased one of these pistols for $490 , which when I compare the two, similar concealable hand guns I feel was the better choice,
spr9mm.png

but Ill stick with the full size glock 20 Ive carried for years, yes the barrel alone is longer than the small guns , but Ive never felt it was difficult to carry or conceal

20.gif


look at this chart
380 acp==roughly 200 ft lbs most loads--roughly 8" of penetration in ballistic gel with hollow point 90 grain bullet at about 1000fps

9mm para==roughly 400-450 ft lbs best loads---roughly 14" of penetration in ballistic gel with hollow point 115 grain bullet at about 1300fps

10mm==roughly 650 -750ft lbs better loads --roughly 15" of penetration in ballistic gel with hollow point bullet 150grain at about 1450fps


BTW THESE GUYS SELL EXCELLENT DEFENSIVE AMMO
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php? ... y&path=126
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
 
i can attest that globally 9mm is probably the most plentiful pistol cartridge and that makes it very cheap to shoot... the gun doesn do the shooting, you do, so being ale to fork over the funds required to stay proficient with the gun you carry every day is very important! i will have to go back to 9mm soon as my supply of .40 is going to dry out soon. going back to 9mm puts that XDS square in the center of my focus, as ive often had to come up with creative ways of concealing my px4 storm under my usual attire (which as you know is not big tropical shirts)

another thing grumpy youre a big frame guy, i dont know how confidently you could hold one of those little pocket pistols just for the sake of you having a large hand. my little girly hands even have a tough time getting a fast and confident purchase on the smaller 380 pocket guns and micro pistols so i understand completely about your reservations on the issue.
 
http://www.gallup.com/poll/179213/six-a ... safer.aspx

I found this link and survey info rather interesting,keep in mind when they ask if YOU OR YOUR HOME CONTAINS A FIREARM, I think that most people REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH will currently say NO! NOW, to that poll question if asked! simply , because they don,t want to go on record as owning one due too worry's about confiscation or some BS registration laws
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YOU WILL FIND THIS ALSO INTERESTING

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... e-Violence
 


20151022_184317-900x506.jpg

WATCH THE VIDEOS
when your life depends on your pistols performance you darn sure want something dependable & accurate with a good deal of punch and cartridge capacity
Glock41_c4a.jpg

glocks got a new contender for a great tactical pistol,
Id go this route if I did not already carry a glock 20 10mm and wanted a new self defense pistol, as the powers adequate and the ammos significantly cheaper and easier to find, than a 10mm
the 10mm in my opinion is marginally superior but for self defense against people, Id say the difference is meaningless, only for hunting is the extra power and velocity of the 10mm really useful
either will be damn near perfect for a self defense choice in my opinion as you'll get the power to reach the vitals of any proponent from any angle at any reasonable range with either choice so its just a mater of constant practice with your tool of choice,and keeping your concentration under stress.

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php? ... uct_id=647 45 acp 230 grain at 1000fps

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php? ... uct_id=594 10mm 200 grain at 1300fps
 
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