selecting a good self defence handgun

personally I think a 10mm handgun with the carefully selected matching ammo for its intended purpose makes an exceptionally effective defensive fire arms choice

10mm and 357 mag are well documented as being effective

http://eaacorp.com/portfolio-item/witness-hunter/

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=125_178&product_id=158

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=125_178&product_id=239

eaapl.png

my neighbor bought one of these and I got too try it out at the range, its a darn nice pistol,
its accurate, failed to jam,and the fact is a 6" barrel in 10MM makes it very effective.
in fact Id have to say after shooting it its one Id like to own.
theres ALWAYS a few compromises and a balance must be found between factors like ease of use, portability,cost, ease of concealment ,effective range, recoil,magazine capacity, etc. this pistol basically has a bit more power and effective range. and some advantages in ease of use,increased magazine capacity, than most 357 mag revolvers, you might select for hunting, while its not ideal because of its size for concealment its certainly something a larger frame adult male like myself could use, and certainly its a valid choice in my opinion as I already use a full size 10mm glock.
I would actually prefer this pistol to my current glock 20 as it just feels better in my hand.

heres another couple 10mm pistol options
http://armscor.com/firearms/pro-series/pro-match-ultra-6-10mm/


http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/17/review-glock-g40-gen4-mos-pistol/

http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/10-mm-c-1316_1317_1318_1342.html

http://eaacorp.com/index.php/guns/handguns/witness-elite-limited-pro-178
 
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think things through carefully your life and the lives of your family may depend on getting your choice correct here!
as with most mechanical tools youll need to find a personal balance or value you feel comfortable with,between, size, weight,cost, quality,durability,dependability, and practicality while still really not compromising much if any on the tools ability to function and get the job done under a wide spectrum of uses.
100% dependability is critical!
reasonable availability of ammo to practice with should be a concern!~
a great deal depends on the ammo you sellect!
don,t get the least expensive choice,
it might be a huge mistake!
the best possiable choice won,t do you any good if its not instantly available,
and 100% functional when needed


http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=126

http://www.hornady.com/store/critical_defense/

http://www.midwayusa.com/s?dimensionids=4294845589&newcategorydimensionid=10037

where you hit on any opponent counts as much or more than what your shooting,
so know anatomy and realize no pistol caliber will always be instantly effective,under all conditions,
thus having rapid multipule hit capability is desireable
but selecting something with a good, past track record makes the most sense!
you might only get one shot, is the caliber, you select,
IS IT?
likely to get the job done effectively?

theres dozens of choices , but ask yourself if your willing to practice and reasonably sure you can use your choice quickly,accurately and effectively , under less than ideal conditions at point blank range , or in a dark house, or if threatened with only a few seconds to react!

http://www.10deadliest.com/top-10-most-lethal-handguns/
#7, #8, #9,& #10 may be valid choices in practiced hands #1-#6 would provide more power than ever required if a human opponent was the target,at some point adding extra penetration in your handgun caliber selection is rather pointless, as it becomes more of a liability, than an advantage,in a self defense pistol, and your pretty sure you reached or exceeded that point with a 44 magnum and most ammo used in it , anything larger is rather pointless
t8xhqb.jpg

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=4593

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/06/top-15-pocket-pistols-self-defense/#springfield-xds-2

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/10/fall-2014s-best-new-self-defense-pistols/

https://areasonablelife.wordpress.c...lf-defense/top-ten-handguns-for-self-defense/

https://areasonablelife.wordpress.c...-self-defense-part-ii-semi-automatic-pistols/

https://us.glock.com/products/sector/personal-defense

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/puckett/firstgun.pdf

http://www.gunsandammo.com/personal-defense/ga-basics-5-tips-new-concealed-carry-holders/

http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Firearm-for-Personal-or-Home-Defense

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/defensive-carry-caliber-and-incapacitation/
 
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think things through carefully your life and the lives of your family may depend on getting your choice correct here!
as with most mechanical tools youll need to find a personal balance or value you feel comfortable with,between, size, weight,cost, quality,durability,dependability, and practicality while still really not compromising much if any on the tools ability to function and get the job done under a wide spectrum of uses.
100% dependability is critical!
reasonable availability of ammo to practice with should be a concern!~
a great deal depends on the ammo you sellect!
don,t get the least expensive choice,
it might be a huge mistake!
the best possiable choice won,t do you any good if its not instantly available,
and 100% functional when needed


http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=126

http://www.hornady.com/store/critical_defense/

http://www.midwayusa.com/s?dimensionids=4294845589&newcategorydimensionid=10037

where you hit on any opponent counts as much or more than what your shooting,
so know anatomy and realize no pistol caliber will always be instantly effective,under all conditions,
thus having rapid multipule hit capability is desireable
but selecting something with a good, past track record makes the most sense!
you might only get one shot, is the caliber, you select,
IS IT?
likely to get the job done effectively?

theres dozens of choices , but ask yourself if your willing to practice and reasonably sure you can use your choice quickly,accurately and effectively , under less than ideal conditions at point blank range , or in a dark house, or if threatened with only a few seconds to react!
http://www.10deadliest.com/top-10-most-lethal-handguns/
#7, #8, #9,& #10 may be valid choices in practiced hands #1-#6 would provide more power than ever required if a human opponent was the target,at some point adding extra penetration in your handgun caliber selection is rather pointless, as it becomes more of a liability, than an advantage,in a self defense pistol,
and your pretty sure you reached or exceeded that point with a 44 magnum and most ammo used in it , anything larger is rather pointless

t8xhqb.jpg




http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=4593

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/06/top-15-pocket-pistols-self-defense/#springfield-xds-2

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/10/fall-2014s-best-new-self-defense-pistols/

https://areasonablelife.wordpress.c...lf-defense/top-ten-handguns-for-self-defense/

https://areasonablelife.wordpress.c...-self-defense-part-ii-semi-automatic-pistols/

https://us.glock.com/products/sector/personal-defense

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/puckett/firstgun.pdf

http://www.gunsandammo.com/personal-defense/ga-basics-5-tips-new-concealed-carry-holders/

http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Firearm-for-Personal-or-Home-Defense

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/defensive-carry-caliber-and-incapacitation/

: ) !
 
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“An armed society is a polite society.”

– Robert A. Heinlein

Criminals, by definition, don’t obey laws. And those intent on committing a crime with a gun will not be deterred by gun control laws. But, with few exceptions, even criminals believe in self-preservation, and are less likely to attack someone capable of fighting back. Hence, the importance of the right to arm and defend oneself and others.

These pro-Second Amendment arguments are familiar to us here in the United States, but the “more guns, less crime” experience of the U.S. is being trumpeted in a somewhat unlikely place: Panama. The Central American nation has been struggling with rising crime, gang activity and forged gun permits. In order to address these problems, and promote personal safety, the government is preparing to lift its ban on firearms imports, in place since 2012, so that citizens may better defend themselves.

According to the PanAm Post, “Public Safety Minister Rodolfo Aguilera said the country will follow in the footsteps of the United States and Switzerland, where the right to bear arms is believed to lead to fewer homicides.”

“Everything seems to indicate that there is no direct correlation in the aphorism that says more guns mean more crime,” said Mr. Aguilera, who cited the 20-year decline in the homicide rate in the U.S. as gun laws have simultaneously been relaxed.

One of the primary ways gun laws in much of the country have been loosened is through the easing of restrictions on carrying a concealed weapon. A number of states no longer require a government permit at all. A recent report from the Crime Prevention Research Center, a nonprofit organization established by the man who literally wrote the book on “More Guns, Less Crime,” John R. Lott Jr., examines this trend, since just prior to the beginning of the Obama administration, and its relation to falling rates of violent crime.

Among the study’s findings are the following:

• “Between 2007-14, murder rates have fallen from 5.6 to 4.2 (preliminary estimates) per 100,000. This represents a 25 percent drop in the murder rate at the same time that the percentage of the adult population with permits soared by 178 percent. Overall violent crime also fell by 25 percent over that period of time.”

• “Concealed handgun permit holders are extremely law-abiding. In Florida and Texas, permit holders are convicted of misdemeanors or felonies at one-sixth the rate that police officers are convicted.”

• While 5.2 percent of the U.S. population has a concealed carry permit, the rate is only 0.24 percent in California. According to the CPRC study, “State level permit data suggest that each 1 percentage point increase in the adult population holding permits is roughly associated with a 25 percent drop in the murder rate.” However, “Giving government officials discretion in who gets permits reduces the percent of adults who get permits by more than two-thirds.”

It has been said that President Barack Obama is the best gun salesman in history, as he incites fear over his (and other gun-control advocates’) gun control policy goals. “Whenever there is a call for gun control, sales increase,” Larry Keane, general counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, told the New York Daily News.

Since 2007, gun sales, as measured by the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System, have nearly doubled, from about 11 million to 21 million. And gun sales continued to break records this summer, with 4.8 million background checks performed in June, July and August. Moreover, the number of concealed handgun permits has nearly tripled since 2007, to 12.8 million. The trend has been particularly strong among women and minorities.

As Mr. Lott’s research demonstrates, this surge in the number of responsible citizens keeping and bearing arms bodes well for individual liberty and public safety, both in the U.S. and in Panama.
 
I have a neighbor who just realized that hes a bit more vulnerable, than he feels comfortable being,
hes had a concealed carry permit for decades,
but he recently got his wife too also get a CONCEALED CARRY permit ,
and he only owns two firearms.
hes got a semi-auto 12 ga riot gun he keeps at home, as his primary home defensive firearm, and a full size government 45 acp colt that he rarely carries, concealed,as a personal weapon.
he expressed concern that he and his wife are looking for a second smaller concealed carry pistol, something for her, small and light weight enough to easily carry , yet large enough to be effective.

now he asked for my advice ,
but I can,t select what you'll be comfortable carrying any more than I can select your ideal wife or girl friend,
what I can do is point out a few factors that should be taken into consideration when selecting a carry weapon.
first ask yourself what is the main reason you even consider carrying?,
if your like me,
its to have the ability and EFFECTIVE tools required too allow YOU too prevent being a helpless sheep, and thus prevent ,
being slaughtered if confronted by a violent armed,
criminal intent on doing my family or myself harm.


Florida CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT HOLDERS
1,454,754 active permits as of October 31, 2015

(1) if its too heavy or large or difficult to use you won,t carry it all the time and its unlikely to be with you when its needed!
(2) only ACCURATELY placed hits count , so you'll need to have a fairly accurate gun AND PRACTICE REGULARLY
(3) regular carry requires constant recurring maintenance and cleaning, and selecting stainless and some durable finishes reduce rust and need for AS frequent maintenance
(4)the vast majority of violent confrontations occur at under 25 ft and involve less than 5 shots being fired
(5)the simpler the weapons operation and the more you practice the more likely you are to be effective.
(6)no weapon is effective if the operator fails to remain aware of his surroundings and fails to maintain easy access to the weapon.
(7) quality revolvers have a VERY SLIGHT reliability advantage, and for many women are easier to use
(8)BRIGHT, BUILT IN, LAZER sight devices tend to have some advantages in high stress conditions
(9) personally I see the 38 spc and 9mm as the minimum effective calibers
357 mag-40 cal and 10mm as ideal
(10) if your life depends on the choices you make (and it may) what weapon will you feel comfortable,and skilled enough with ,to be carrying,and using, if forced to defend yourself?
(11)if the thought of being forced into a confrontation using the weapon you chose,
frightens you, it should ,because sane people don,t look forward to lethal gun fights they may loose
!
but if you can think of several pistols that would be better choices that what you selected you may want to rethink your choice in weapons.


jlazer.jpg

REVOLVERS TEND TO BE A BIT THICKER IN CROSS SECTION THAN AUTOMATICS
ilazera.jpg

glazer.jpg

plazer.jpg
 
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I just got a Sig 938- 9mm for a new carry gun I really like it its small enough to fit in my pocket or a small holster I am going to check out some CC holsters soon
 
http://www.ammoland.com/2015/01/handgun-caliber-doesnt-matter/#axzz40lVRRPJA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handgun_effectiveness

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_stopping_power.htm

http://gundata.org/blog/post/best-handgun-caliber-and-round-for-self-defense/

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/pistol-ammo-10mm#gel-test

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/8/29/handgun-stopping-power-sizing-up-your-options/

you can look through a dozen of similar links and threads and what youll eventually be forced to consider is that this is a subject thats riddled with a huge mass of unrelated data that can,t be scientifically ranked accurately simply because both the conditions, ranges angles and targets are wildly varied, knocking down a highly motivated, drugged up 300 lb male, with some caliber pistol , should at least in theory be far harder than getting the same result om a 130 lb teenager. yet both shot placement, the targets mental condition, and the ammo used can and do produce again wildly varied results.
within reasonable, limits hand guns can be used to punch holes in an adversary the depth, diameter, and placement of those holes will be dependent on the caliber and ammo used plus the skill of the person wielding the pistol and once youve reached about the 38 spc/9mm power level a properly placed shot can easily provide a mortal wound, theres not much gained once you exceed 41 magnum/10mm power levels since the extra energy is expended past the target the projectile will most likely punch through and exit.
Ive read several dozen of these links over the years, looked at the data and your eventually going to find that theres some advantage in a pistol that has at least 35-40-45 caliber minimum and ideally about 400-650 ft lbs of energy
 
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This is becoming a very interesting hobby. A couple of months ago I couldn't care less about any guns and I'm sure I'm the least knowledgeable here. Although I did take a safety course I feel really ignorant with a lot to learn.
A bit of a confession, I was into skeet and had a S&W up to the early '90's when luckily in a moment of clarity, during a night of rage, I was too close to using my S&W in way that would have changed history for many people. I tossed that gun off a high bridge over a busy shipping lane that night despite strong temptations. Was that Bob Marly that sang "No women no crime"
 
Rich most likely that was a good move all though it sucks to destroy a gun I made a promise to myself 15 years ago when I quit drinking that if I ever start drinking again the guns go & I think I like my guns more than booze so for 15 years instead of dropping $50 a night at the bar I put to better use & have managed to build a nice gun collection
 
Grumpy I will still always carry my Ruger LCP 357 in my pocket & I think it will put large enough holes to get someones attention
 
one of my neighbors stopped over the house to talk with me and said hes never owned a hand gun but has recently
decided he wants a hand gun around the house for security as the only other firearm he owns is a 26" barrel 12 ga shotgun
he asked me if a revolver or automatic was a better choice and said he was reading on line and could not really decide if a 357 mag, 40 S&W, or 45 acp might be the best choice?
I suggested that it would take a good deal of practice to become proficient with any hand gun, so use of a common caliber with reasonably priced ammo that was reasonably powerful, and one with a long standing record of effective use, would be a good starting point, and use of dependable quality fire arms would be well worth the cost or investment.
while a semi auto pistol might be rather common , in a caliber like 9mm or 40 cal. I don,t suggest its ideal for a beginning shooter.
I pointed out that QUALITY revolvers especially with a 6" barrel or longer tended to have a slight edge in ease of use, fairly low and easily controlled recoil, have very good accuracy, well known stopping power, and the safety, of a quality revolver tends to be better than autos in less experienced hands, and being less complicated , they tended to have fewer problems ( and the few they have are usually user caused, through lack of proper maintenance or carelessness) I also strongly suggested he look into a good 6" barrel 357 mag revolver and the fact that they can easily use the much less expensive 38 spc ammo make it a good choice.
I've killed enough hogs and deer to know the 357 mag with 158 grain soft point ammo is totally lethal if you can place shots well and know your targets anatomy.
you'll want a good holster as a good revolver that size won,t be easily concealable, but if properly cleaned and maintained , and used with good ammo, its almost 100% dependable when needed.
autos, in contrast, need to have good magazines, ammo and the operator needs to know how its correctly loaded,operated, and know how to load and un-load it and use the safetys (all more complicated for newer users)

then keep it loaded at home with quality, 158 grain 357 mag .
of what is commonly available Id select one of these revolvers and this ammo for personal defense

ruger
1707.jpg

SMITH AND WESSON
164224.jpg


http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag-158-gr-XTP/

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=126_140&product_id=380


good quality practice ammo that would work for defense work
http://www.luckygunner.com/357-mag-158-gr-jsp-pmc-1000-rounds
 
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if your into hand loading ammo in a serious level youll want to own a quality chronograph that allows you to test and accurately compare your ammos consistency and velocity
 
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My dream handgun is the S&W M&P R8. The reliability of a revolver. But 8 rounds of .357, instead of 6. And it looks soooo good.

I carry a Beretta Bobcat in .22LR. Fits my pocket well. I'd prefer a small Ruger .380, as it's much thinner.

My larger handgun is a Beretta 92. Kinda old tech and more bulky than a lot of the newer ones.
 
theres always been and always will be a debate over if you should carry a pistol as a back-up or your much better off carrying several extra magazines to have them available for your primary rifle, most guys would not go into any place they thought they might have to confront armed opponents under unknown conditions without a long gun, and possibly body armor, a pistol is simply a easily carried weapon thats much better than being un-armed, but not designed for true combat if you have other options, but for civilian use its obviously one of the best option, as you can,t go walking around with a slung rifle in most areas.
after reading the above posts I'd have to point out a couple facts
I may have an old school outlook and I won,t get into that background, but having a viable back-up makes sense.

(1)
Guns are machines and machines break. They are tools and tools wear out. Neither of those things ever happen when it's convenient. I'm taking the pistol and a spare mag or two.
this is all too true, like carrying a spare tire, in your trunk, you could go decades without using it but when you need it its a damn handy option and its allowing you to continue while the lack of that option leaves you at a big disadvantage

I would dispute the idea that the weapon and caliber choice,and its reliability and accuracy is not important, in my experience its the skill set of the rifles operator and his training that makes a significant impact on the most likely results.
given the option I want the most reliable and accurate rifle I can get.
a trained soldier with a good weapon can take on and hit targets rapidly, and a rifle like an M14 makes taking cover behind most of a car or fence or a small tree a joke.
if your caught in the open by 6 guys your most likely screwed, but given a few seconds and correctly armed you have options and those opponents may be very surprised at what a skilled and trained person can do in seconds , theres a reason the marines stress rifle skills and are respected.


the difference between an ak47 and an m14 reminds me of the difference between thunder and lightning,
thunders impressive and makes a lot of noise.....lightning splits trees in half, and starts fires
FAM14ServiceRifle4.png


a very quick related story about two of my friends back in the 1980s, these two close friends, were cops back when, riding in pairs in some areas was normal procedure, one carried a S&W 357 revolver, one carried a then rather newly approved 9mm semi-auto.
they answered a "shots fired call" in the ghetto , as they arrived their squad car came under fire, both cops bailed out and took cover, the guy with the 9mm could see occasional glimpses of a guy firing at them about 50 yards away, he was on his 3rd and next to last magazine when the guy with the revolver fired and hit the opponent in the head killing him ... at the inquest that followed he was asked why it was that his partner had been able to get off more than 25 shots yet he had only fired once?
Ill never forget that answer..... "until that second... there was no target, as soon as there was I fired."


If you've ever had a bunch of cops as close friends you know without a doubt what happened (and it did)
the general consensus, of their fellow cops was that the guy who emptied almost three magazines without a hit , needed a great deal more practice... he took good natured ribbing over that for the next few years, and more than a few semi joking, suggestions he carry 12-15 magazines,or buy, and carry a 12 ga 8 shot riot gun any time he exited the cruiser, the guy that connected, took crap for just being spectacularly lucky and it was suggested he should buy lotto tickets.
Ive hunted deer with both guys, the guy with the 357 mag IS a good shot.....the guy with the 9mm pistol, really needed a rifle past about 20 feet to be hitting anything smaller than a beer can....
 
I was asked
"what would you consider to be acceptable accuracy for a concealed carry handgun?"
well Id guess the engineer in me ,
would ask ,what gun and cartridge are we talking about?
what your intended goal is ?,
what is the most likely range youll need to accurately place shots at?
and what would be the intended target?
and what would be considered acceptable results?
At least to me, the basic concept of self defense mandates your weapon of choice,
could be used to totally stop any serious threat at any reasonable range
,you really should carry what your able to be accurate and consistent with,
and Id be, sure to point out only hits to the vitals on any opponent really count!
as anyone with real world experience will tell you shot placement is most critical,
and about 17"-19" minimum penetration in ballistic gel test, is mandatory.
personally I'd be rather reluctant to select anything less than 9mm or 35 caliber ,
and less than 120 grains in projectile weight,and a MINIMUM, of 300 ft lbs of muzzle energy
personally ID prefer a 40-48 caliber.
simply due to decades of results that show smaller calibers, tend to be marginally less effective

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
http://greent.com/40Page/general/fbitest.htm
http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/site/files/Hornady-LE-Military-Application-Guide.pdf

and personally Id want a pistol that you could shoot both rapidly and accurately enough,
to place at least 50% of your minimum of 6 shots in a 8" circle, at 20 yards,
in under 10 seconds. as a base line to try for.
Id have zero problem meeting that threshold and no one I know of that carries would either.
now you might not agree with that level of accuracy or power but if you do the research,
I think you'll see that's not very difficult or hard to maintain, if your willing to practice.
I think you'll also find a correlation between well placed hits and rapid incapacitation,
and a lack of penetration making some cartridges less effective in the real world usage.


 
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