selecting a project car, best idea, have friends with similar cars...

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
as you get more experience in this car hobby most guys realize that theres several things you can,t really change
every choice is a compromise, most of us can never afford to just select the car and parts we wish we could without regard to cost, and few people have the experienced help and tools to tackle almost any job when we start.
it really helps if you and your friends have similar cars as you,ll tend to learn from each others mistakes and successes, and at times you may be able to get better deals on purchasing parts if you buy two or more similar components at a time.
theres sure to be times when you look at a buddies car and think...OOOH what was he thinking I'm glad I did not go that route!, ...or DAMN THAT looks nice, that worked out well!... I hope I can get him to help me do that on my car!
now it really doesn,t mater if you go CHEVY,MOPAR,FORD, AMC,CADDY,PONTIAC,BUICK, or several other choices
what really maters is your going to be happy with the results and that you do the required research to find out if the parts are available at semi-reasonable prices you can afford and that a project car to use in your project is available
a nice 440 six pack road runner or a 401 powered javelin, or a 1967 fairlane with a 427 ,or something a bit exotic like a LS1 powered A.C. cobra , or 426 hemi powered T-bucket or an older corvette with a 514 cubic inch ford 385 series engine for some examples can all be exceptional cars, but if you can,t get parts its going to be a real P.I.T.A, CREATIVITY AND YOUR SKILL GO A LONG WAY TO MAKING A PROJECT WORK OUT, IN HIGH SCHOOL ONE GUY HAD A 413 MOPAR POWERED 1933 BUICK, most of US LUSTED AFTER, THERES FEW RULES, AS LONG AS WHAT YOU BUILD LOOKS GREAT AND RUNS WELL, and IT HELPS A GREAT DEAL TOO have friends with similar cars OR INTERESTS, IN BUILDING AND MAINTAINING SIMILAR CARS .
OBVIOUSLY YOULL WANT TO BUILD SOMETHING YOU CAN BE PROUD TO OWN... but keep in mind some cars have a distinct advantage in that theres a much larger support base in parts, example youll generally have fewer problems building a popular muscle car, like a hemi road runner or big block corvette than a Studebaker hawk,XKE jag, or Hudson hornet

SPEND A GREAT DEAL MORE TIME DOING RESEARCH, LEARNING ON OTHER PEOPLES PROJECTS< MAKING CONTACTS AND FRIENDS, AND COLLECTING SKILLS AND A FEW TOOLS< THAN YOU DO SPENDING MONEY on PARTS, AND BUY A FEW QUALITY PARTS, NOT LOTS OF JUNK, BUT BE REALISTIC, THERE'S NOT MUCH GAINED STARTING ON A PROJECT YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO COMPLETE
(1)most of us initially make the mistake of modifying the car we are currently using for daily transportation rather than building the car we really want to build due in most cases to either lack of funds or room to work on our dream car.

(2) for most of us your stuck using parts available over the counter, and most of us don,t have the skill or tools to fabricate custom parts.

(3) larger and heavier cars tend to be easier to work on, as access to parts tends to be better, in larger engine compartments and in rear wheel drive cars/trucks, but the extra weight reduces acceleration and reduces the cars agility once your done.

(4)stepping back and making a list of exactly what you would like to have, posting a realistic budget and parts list and following the plan exactly goes a long way towards deducing the time and cost required to reach your goal.

(5) find a couple mentors, join several car clubs, and youll find if your willing to help others in the club with their projects youll gain a good deal of experience, gain contacts and get access to far more parts at reasonable prices

(6) try never to work on a car ( SIMPLY BECAUSE IT WHAT YOU HAVE) try to work on and plan projects based on what you want to have once its completed, and yes that usually means having a car or truck used for daily transportation and a second project car

if you don,t read links its sure to cost you a good deal of extra time and money
http://m.wikihow.com/Calculate-Diminished-Value

http://www.vincheckpro.com/vin-go?s...MI_fHiyZuY1QIVlLrACh1sVAkSEAAYASAAEgKKW_D_BwE


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/buying-out-of-state.11313/#post-51477

KEEP IN MIND WHEN BUYING A USED CAR YOU CAN DO A SEARCH ON PREVIOUS DAMAGE

http://www.vehicle-buyer.com/damage-car ... ted-title/

http://www.carfax.com/cfm/general_check ... KNC-Google

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I was talking to several friends over for a bar-b-Que, and we got to talking about cars in general, and after several cold beers, and the wife's walking away, we got to talking about the cars we drive and why we picked them, and one guy who drives an older mustang mentioned that he always wanted a 1968-69 hemi road runner with a 4 speed transmission more than any other car.
When I asked him why he was not driving a road runner, he simply said I could never afford one now or when they were cheap and easy to find either.
That got me to thinking, wondering how many guys settled for a car they don,t really like as much as the car or engine that would be their dream project car.
GUYS Settled, simply because of either lack of skill, time or MONEY, or the opportunity to find and buy the dream project car?
yes I know the available cash outlay just never seem to be available.
I know grumpyvettes ,got this doctor buddy that had 4 or 5 seriously hopped up mustangs , and always wanted a AC COBRA, and after years he was talking to grumpy about that and decided to sell a couple mustangs and buy a AC COBRA, when he realized he had more time and cash in the several mustang builds than he would have had in a COBRA clone.
I think most guys tend to settle for cars or projects , that are not exactly what we want due to lack of cash or a place to build the cars we want in some ways.


how many of us have just built cars or bought cars that were not really what we wanted, due to lack of skills or cash?

how many guys would build a totally different car or engine if they had a spare $500 every month to put into the project?

I know I sure would!
 
theres THOUSANDS of guys like that that simply fail to realize that you can build a clone to an original muscle car over time if the parts are available, and there are certainly all the components available to build a 1968-69 hemi road runner clone .
while an original car will be over $80K PLUS, you could build a good clone for under $30K if you shop carefully, it might take a few years and working side jobs but its a reachable goal for most of us!

http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/hemi.html engine $16-$20K

http://www.quadratec.com/products/52446 ... lemerchant

mopp_0609_16z+1968_plymouth_road_runner+front.jpg


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Right now I feel pretty darn lucky!!! I started out building an engine for my TBucket for $2500, but what I really wanted was something more than just a warmed up SBC 350. But to figure out what I wanted took some time, research and mulling over my options. Like most people, my project grew with time. But it's those months of research and thinking that brought me to what I was really wanting.

When I told the wife that to build what I really wanted would be $7000, she like to fell over dead. Good thing that didn't happen cause I need her paycheck. :p But the next day she said Ok, if that's what you want. So you see, I am building the engine I want. Oh sure, I could have spent more and bought some nicer USA rods and crank, but I got to focus my attention on the design and building of the engine with the components that I have. That makes me happy :!: :!: :!:
 
why is it that some guys spend a great deal of time and money working on a project car that they bought then in mid project,decide they want to swap projects in the middle of a restoration project.?
some of you might remember this thread

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=5893&p=18037&hilit=road+runner#p18037

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=7422&p=25168&hilit=can%2Ct+figure#p25168

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=339&p=17566&hilit=second+spare#p17566

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bits-of-427-bbc-build-related-info.15543/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-a-parts-deal-and-regretted-it-later.14020/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/383-build-for-a-friend.14273/

well I go by the kids home to talk to the father and find out the kid sold the car , at a loss, after doing a great deal of work on it, because he realized he didn,t have the required skill to do some of the work that would be required to finish, the project!
now about 90% of the time your not going to have all the skills or tools you need, on any car build, its a process of accumulating the tools or making friends with the tools and skills required, and learning what needs to be done and how to do it!
I can,t really comprehend the thought process here! all the kid needed to do was jump on the internet and ask questions and/or join a local muscle car club and ask for help or guidance, or just come over and ask for help which I know at least three of the local guys would be only to happy to give if he had asked!
thats part of the hobby, its gaining those skills and the sense of accomplishment learning those skills brings and the knowledge that you did the work yourself thats the reason you build a car!
then to further confuse me the father tells me the kid wants to buy an older corvette now as hes sure that he could work on the vette with less effort......now Ive got to tell you thats just insane! I doubt theres any car easier to work on than a road runner with a 440 wedge, and a corvettes got a good deal less room to work on parts and parts tend to be more expensive.
any time you've purchased a new(too you) used muscle car,
you should start by carefully inspecting a car,s basic systems like brakes, cooling ,suspension, alignment, tires , power steering, hoses,belts, after all you'll generally have little or no idea how the cars been maintained, that's easily 45 plus years old in most cases,

its will generally save you some potential problems if you take the time and effort,
if you change out the fluids,radiators can and frequently are filled with either plain water,
( which caused corrosion, or old anti-freeze that can cause particulates to form and clog the radiator interior tubes)
Id especially change the oil, and filter, and slap a big magnet on the base of the oil filter
51794.jpg

clip on a decent magnet to the base of a long oil filter helps it trap metalic trash more effectively, and while $29 may sound high its good extra insurance that potentially reduces the chances of metalic debis from getting to the bearings and valve train.
consider the cost of bearing replacement?
filtmag.png

http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/


change the oil, and filter, and slap a big magnet on the base of the oil filter
http://www.magnet4sale.com/n42-3od-x-1id-x-1-2-neodymium-rare-earth-ring-magnet/
3ringmag.jpg

and a couple high heat tolerant magnets,
near the oil drain back cylinder head drains in the rear of each head , and its smart too change the brake fluid
(which has a nasty habit in older muscle cars of absorbing and holding moisture in suspension.)

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...himmer-in-the-oil-catch-pan.11397/#post-52207

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/magnets.120/#post-49771

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-with-fuel-in-the-lines-tank.4111/#post-72082

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-filters-related-info.2080/#post-54352

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c3-no-brake-pressure.10261/#post-41225

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/brake-fluid-info.1848/#post-16080
 
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I recently was asked to inspect a used truck one of my friends spotted on the side of one of the local roads with a for sale sign in the window.
it was a ford f-350 pick-up he wanted to use to pull his car trailer, the poster in the widow stated .
nice clean 2003 low miles and all for only $2900
well ..
I went with him and brought a OBDII scanner , it needed oxygen sensors replaced, the exhaust seemed to be partly restricted,
and we found the trans fluid low, and the radiator seemed to leak, a bit more inspection showed it had a crack that was dripping that ,
was previously partly repaired with J&B weld....but the real deal killer was the dash VIN was for a 2003 and title and door frame Vin differed and were from a 1997 F350...\
so we politely pointed that out and walked!
 
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someone posted this picture on a different website and It sure brought back a lot of old memories,
of when my friends and I were in our late teens and most of us only had a box of mechanic tools, and a floor jack and jack stands.
we didn,t know crap about what we were doing, but we were not afraid to dive head first, into projects that were way over our skill levels.
(yes this did frequently result in having to pay some older more knowledgeable old geezer to help us either repair or re-assemble engines,
or drive train components, but in the process we did learn a great deal, about how to do many jobs and how we had totally and irreparably, screwed up a few projects.
tools we could stuff in or car trunks and no real place too work on our cars other than each others car ports and drive ways.
and yes to be totally honest we screwed up quite a few projects, especially when we were gullible, enough,
too assume they told you everything you wanted or needed to know, about engine assembly and checking clearances and parts compatibility,
in the periods numerous, monthly magazine articles, that ignored or omitted or glossed over the parts of those projects that while absolutely critical,
were also expensive, time intensive , and ignored because the article,
printed in the monthly (hot rod, Chevy high performance, corvette, or similar magazines)
were and mostly still are,only designed to make the readers rush out and buy some new cam or intake manifold or set of cylinder heads.
and being in out late teens,
factors like spring bind , ring gaps, rocker geometry, scam artist machine shops,
lying mechanics, block clearance, detonation, quench ,selecting matched components,
to allow the correct drive train gearing to match the engines intended rpm range,

were all things we were eventually introduced too , simply because most of us either screwed up or had friends that screwed up parts, or assembly procedures.
this got expensive but it also tended to force you to learn how to do things correctly,
and motivated most of us to get a decent job, simply so we could afford the addiction/obsession in auto related hobby's.
I'm fairly sure this was at the time a rather common and wide spread and addictive even obsessive,male mental failing,at that time,
that does not seem to afflict the current generation, as I have seen far fewer teen and young adults, doing similar projects.
I frequently get asked to help or provide guidance on auto or garage related projects
one of the younger guys I recently helped seemed rather amazed that I knew how,
to troubleshoot his problem and rather rapidly found its source.
He asked me how I learned how to do it?
I basically said,....you just need to stop being afraid of failing,
and understand you need to do as much research as you can, do
prior to diving into a project.
you'll find damn near everything is a bit intimidating the first few times you try to do it,
but after a few dozen projects, you'll look back and wonder how you ever had any doubts you could do it.
in fact, you'll kick yourself mentally for ever doubting you could do somethings that were so simple to do,
once you understood what was needed and how it was accomplished.
simple stuff like doing a brake job, replacing injectors or setting the ignition timing, or doing a tune-up may look to be rather difficult
if you've never done it.
and it certainly helps if you have an experienced mentor,
but you'll never get the skills and knowledge and experience required to be a decent mechanic,
or learn new skills if you're reluctant to get in over your head in new projects.
now obviously if you are naturally curious and like small challenges,
and like working with both your hands and mind its a big help!
but don,t be afraid to tackle things your currently clueless about,
it how you'll learn new skills... and if you're a tool junkie... justify new tool purchases:rolleyes::D
no ones born knowing how to succeed at auto repair work,
but there's not a damn thing on any car that your average guy can,t
fix or replace if he's willing to learn how the components work,
what needs to be checked and tested,
and if he's willing to learn new skills and acquire a few tools in the process.
with every new project you gain experience,
you may not know how to install a cam,swap injectors,
or replace a set of brakes or upholster a seat....
but with some research and ideally if you find an experienced mentor,
all those skills and more are rather easy to master if your willing to put in the time and effort required.
lack of experience is a curable issue,
especially if your willing to help others with their cars
and join a local car club, or at least make several friends with local guys,
that own similar cars who are willing to help each other with projects and repairs

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-in-dyno-tests-in-magazines.1817/#post-66678

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...nk-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/#post-21611

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-back-in-the-late-1960s-70s.5466/#post-16337

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/learning-the-hard-way.5180/#post-15044

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...a-camaro-or-firebird-to-bite.4067/#post-10821

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...cam-lobe-rod-or-bearings-fail.2919/#post-7625

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-in-vs-threaded-rocker-studs.2746/#post-7475

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-you-looking-at-what-you-think-you-see.14373/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ory-about-two-kids-in-the-70s.1151/#post-2525

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-to-drive-a-really-fast-car.906/#post-1493

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/back-in-the-past-vs-today.15043/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-resulting-from-an-engine-swap.898/#post-1450

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/problems-in-the-hobbies-way.633/#post-847

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...etting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-415

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/engine-assembly-check-list.111/#post-138

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-71170
 
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stop and think through your budget and goals before you jump into any project!
I remember about 30 years ago I had a guy in my shop that wanted to build and install a kick, butt and take names 1970 440 road runner, stroker engine
we spend a few days looking up the price and availability of a stroker crank kit, balance work, having the heads reworked, a new cam, and valve train, intake carb, etc.
then we got detailed quotes on the required machine work etc.
even if I did the engine and install for free..
when we totaled it all up the guy very quickly realized he could purchase a stroker 480 cubic inch HEMI engine for about $1200 more than that cost,
that hemi engine would be a lot easier to just buy and install. and would certainly increase the value of the car more later.
so he dropped the project ...... about two years later I ran into the guy at a car show... he had traded in his old road runner on a hemi cuda and was thrilled as at that time his old car and several thousand dollars less was required for him to buy that 1970 hemi cuda.
no it did not have the power level either the 440 stroker or hemi engine in his old 1970 road runner would have had but he told me he was more concerned with having a car that turned heads and caused envy than collecting drag strip time slips.
 
I had a rather detailed conversation with a couple of the local guys about the problems they encountered,
in finding a project car in reasonable repairable condition, vs the prices being asked.
now one guy was admiring a 1996 corvette , one of the other local kids owns , (there in their late 20s early 30s)
and both have young kids/wife so cash is not available in vast amounts.
joining a local muscle car club increases your contacts in the hobby,
and you will need a safe secure dry place to work on and store the car as it may take well in excess of a year or more on a limited budget, to get the car rebuilt.
you can do a great deal of work with basic tools but having a floor jack and 4 12 ton jack stands a mechanics creeper and basic hand tools is almost mandatory.
but the other guy has been looking hard,for over 5 years now for a 1965-1970 GTO/ le mans to build.
and as is almost universally the case ,
I have a good grasp on both reality and experience, and dealing with machine shops,
before you jump into any project do the required research,
think, do the calcs, price parts, talk to your local machine shop,
get out that legal pad calculator and make the required inquires and phone calls
and I have to point out I have zero brand loyalty,
as an engineer Im concerned more with cost and potential results per dollar spent
Id rather build Chrysler/ MOPAR first and second gen, hemi's than any other engines
if you check carefully, on a dollar per horse power, basis,
I don,t build many Chrysler/ MOPAR engines for the same reason you probably won,t want to build Pontiac's
you can build a darn impressive BBC with significant horse power for less total cash outlay.
than a similar horse power Pontiac.
now Ive built plenty of both engines and I have no problem building either one,
if you want under 500 hp the SBC or CHEVY LS is the route most people take.
yes you could build a 500 caddy, 455 buick, or BBO (OLDS)

either more common, pontiac or BBC engine family can be built to run well,
and the BBC and pontiac engines have a great deal of potential,
the results you can expect are based partly on your checking account balance,
and the skill and knowledge of the local machine shops
but Id point out, you can find more good aftermarket parts , at a reasonable price at swap meets,
far more often for the BBC, and whats even more important,
you have a far wider selection of O.E.M. and aftermarket parts too choose from,if you select a BBC.
Id bet 3/4 of the current after market manufacturers no longer produce Pontiac V8 parts
yes you can build either engine family, but your wallet will hurt a bit less per horse power gained with a BBC,
unless you already have significant pontiac parts and GOOD QUALITY pontiac parts and,
you are willing to be limited to what those parts can provide.
theres zero doubt Pontiac made some good engines, but theres currently,
a limited and shrinking base of salvage yard engines.
finding anything in decent condition thats reasonably priced, can be your first issue, but its not insurmountable.
well first point, is that the price is likely to increase, as the numbers of salvageable cars suitable to rebuild,
and the condition of the potential project cars, available is likely to deteriorate over time.
Both the cars the guys lust after have a slew of aftermarket parts support, and engine components easily,
accessible (provided you have reasonably deep financial pockets and/or your persistent and not easily frustrated..)
corvettes have by comparison have far greater component availability,
from more nitch suppliers, but either choice is not going to be limited ,
too scrounging salvage yards for parts. now the corvette has a few advantages in that body rust damage ,
will be generally less of an issue in some areas of the country as only the frame not the body panels are likely to be damaged,
but more than a few body shops are much happier repairing or replacing ,metal body panels.
related info
https://www.daves-classic-cars.com/

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hcc/2010/06/32-Best-Cars-to-Restore/3396351.html

http://automuseumonline.com/where-to-find-a-project-car

https://medium.com/@PeteMarucci/finding-your-next-classic-car-restoration-project-cc3af17c12e4

https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/25-classic-muscle-cars-that-are-easy-to-restore.html/

https://classiccars.com/listings/find?price-max=5000&price-min=1

https://www.oldcaronline.com/Classic-Cars-For-Sale-On-OldCarOnline.com/results?

chevy

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c4-corvette-project.15117/#post-86153

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-jumping-in-with-both-feet.14918/#post-84073

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/c4-c5-corvette-trouble-codes.2697/#post-69239

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ts-differences-useful-links.13141/#post-68543

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-60236

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-choice-and-living-with-your-decisions.15314/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...r-used-chevy-corvette-parts.12096/#post-58034

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/think-thru-your-goals.10606/#post-78961

pontiac
https://www.opgi.com/gto/1968/

http://www.amesperf.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgr7jy7vF4AIVEIvICh0NlAzNEAMYAiAAEgIyWPD_BwE

https://www.carid.com/pontiac-parts/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgr7jy7vF4AIVEIvICh0NlAzNEAMYAyAAEgIy-vD_BwE

https://www.frankspontiacparts.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlZeNmrzF4AIVEo_ICh3W6QIPEAAYASAAEgJDtPD_BwE

https://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/browse/gto-lemans

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/pontiac-performance-tips.451/#post-72464

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/409-pontiac-build.1434/#post-59379

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tech-you-may-not-know.11663/page-2#post-55277
 
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