selecting & balancing a HUNTING handguns power, accuracy, effective range,& cost

Discussion in 'handgun related' started by Grumpy, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    ALLEN stopped by last evening to B.S. about his recent hunts with his 500 S&W , he wanted to brag a bit, and we spent some time casting up cast bullet projectiles for both his 500 S&W and my 445 DWSM and 44 mag revolvers,
    and as you might expect ,(he loves his new found hobby and revolver)
    he started a good natured (RIBBING) conversation into,
    why his new 500 S&W was obviously superior to either of my 44 caliber hunting revolvers!
    always keep in mind hunting with an iron sight revolver,
    limits your effective range to about 120 yards if you have good eye sight and lots of practice.
    and remember longer barrels provide a much more precise sight radias,
    higher velocities and flatter trajectories, all making accurate shot placement at ranges over 50 yards much easier.
    Keep in mind you have to be comfortable enough with the handgun you select to PRACTICE WITH IT FREQUENTLY and because of
    the cost of AMMO, in many of these calibers ALMOST MANDATES,
    LEARNING TO HAND LOAD AND CAST YOUR OWN PROJECTILES < AND the practice to become proficient BECOMES ALMOST MANDATORY, if your going to be an ethical handgun hunter.

    keep in mind hand gun hunting is similar too archery hunting,as proper shot placement with an iron sighted big bore revolver becomes much more difficult past that range.
    in that the vast majority of hand gun kills will be made at ranges under 60 yards and shots much over 100 yards by your average hand gun hunter should generally be avoided
    I see way too many guys go out and buy a 454 cassul or 460 S&W who take it out to the local range and fire 20 shots and due to the noise and recoil decide that they can,t hit crap and they wasted a great deal of time effort and cash, guys that should have purchased 357 mag or 41 mag, or 44 mag and gotten into hand loading, and weekly practice, and only once they master that, advanced if they felt the need to the larger bore hand guns.....and if you only hunted deer, and hogs and elk, a 41 or 44 mag would have met your needs.

    yes there are single shot, and typically scope
    equipped "HAND GUNS" chambered in rifle calibers that will potentially extend that range limit, but in my opinion,
    if your going to do that,
    and have the typical scope and 12"-14" barrel,and a 4-5 lb hand gun you can,t easily holster, your better off using a carbine with a shoulder stock that also increased accuracy, not a hand gun.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    notice the area just behind , or through,the front leg and from about mid chest downwards to about 5" up from the lower edge,
    of the chest is the desired impact area but you'll never go wrong,
    selecting the bullet impact target, at the mid way point, vertically ,
    on the chest , directly behind or through the near leg ,
    as the deer or elk steps forward on a broadside shot.
    larger caliber revolvers pushing 250-450 grain hard cast bullets in 44-50 caliber, pushed to 1300-1400 fps or more,
    tend too penetrate very effectively at common hand gun ranges.
    357 mag= 158 grain-180 grain
    41 mag= 220 grain-250 grain
    44 mag= 270 grain-320 grain
    45 caliber -300 grain-350 grain
    480 caliber 350 grain-400 grain
    50 caliber 400 grain-480 grain
    don,t think a 357 mag can,t be effective, it is,
    but its not in the same class as the larger magnums
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tance-to-use-hard-cast-lead-projectiles.9875/


    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/july2017/deeranatomyg.jpg

    I let him go on for quite a while, smiling and occasionally nodding and agreeing to the fact, that theres zero doubt that the 500 S&W has the most punch, heaviest projectile, etc. but then I pointed out the fact that while theres no contest in the level of power delivered on impact thats not necessarily the same thing as measuring effectiveness, or lethality I look back at decades of in field experience, and

    I've rarely failed to have bullets exit the far side of game I shot using just hard cast 300 grain bullets from my 44 mag,
    and can,t remember having one fail to exit with my 445 DWSM, theres a point of diminishing returns on the power level you employ when using a large bore hunting revolver , and from personal experience, Id say a 44 mag will handle almost anything in north america with proper hand loads .
    now thats not suggesting that a 454 cassul or 480 ruger or 500 S&W can,t hit harder , but ....as always knowing your games anatomy and exact shot placement is more critical that impact energy... once your punching a 44 caliber hole through the games vital organs,and having the projectile exit regularly, a slight increase in power does not gain you a great deal more extra lethality, it may hit harder and thats surely an advantage,[/B]

    but unless your trying to prevent a large angry bear from climbing into your tent or keeping one from having a personal one-on-one discussion about your lack of judgement and accuracy after you shoot him,
    I don,t see the 500 S&W as being hugely more lethal than the 44 mag or 445 DWSM , when those are properly loaded and used by a skilled shooter, as all three will punch holes completely through ELK, and BEARS
    I then pointed out the costs, the difference in the bullet molds cost is all but meaningless as both 44 cal and 500 cal bullet molds, and 500 S&W reload dies, can be purchased for similar prices Near $80
    but the 44 mag dies being much more common tend to be cheaper NEAR $50 and while 445 DWSM is a bit more
    I pointed out other factors before
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-a-handgun-for-hunting-hogs-deer-elk.1864/

    http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus_500.htm

    I've yet to see any huge difference in accuracy, its the persons skill with a revolver that tends to be a limiting factor as all three can generally produce 2" 50 yard groups and 3.5"-4" 100 yard groups in skilled hands.
    but as I pointed out, even my 44 mag revolver with its smaller and lighter and slower 300 grain bullet compared to his 400 grain 500 S&W still produces a lethal wound with a single shot so
    all the extra power a 500 S&W has ,while impressive and certainly, comforting and justified,[/B]
    if you might want to tackle hunting brown bear at spitting distances,
    BUT it is not gaining you much more lethality on white tail deer or ELK![/B]
    http://www.grumpysperformance.com/500s&w.jpg
    average cost about $1350 AVERAGE HAND LOADS 400 grain at 1300 fps-1500 FPS
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500']http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=']http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=500 SqqqW Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
    [​IMG]

    if you look hard you can find a used or buy a new 44 mag revolver for between $600-$1100 (obviously model, barrel length, age and condition vary)
    average handloads 300 grain at 1300 fps-1350 FPS
    http://www.lasc.us/fryxell44overweight.htm

    http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm[/

    http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44mag.htm

    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44']http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=300&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=']http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44 Magnum&Weight=300&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-hunting-revolver-should-concentrate-on.3744/

    [​IMG]
    'http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445']http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun']http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun
    http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445']http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun']http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun

    keep in mind that cartridges like the 445 dan wesson
    (an extended length case 44 mag,) or the 454 casull and 460 S&W ( an extended length case, similar to a 45 colt)
    while significantly more powerful than a standard 44 mag, are not necessarily more lethal in skilled hands, but the extra velocity allows longer effective range use.
    and the DAN WESSON REVOLVERS ARE KNOWN TO BE EXCEPTIONALLY ACCURATE and BARRELS ARE EASY TO REPLACE

    [​IMG]
    http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt445sm.htm

    TAFFIN TESTS: THE .445 SUPERMAG

    JOHN TAFFIN

    The .357 SuperMag as chambered in the Dan Wesson heavy frame revolver of the same name orinthe Ruger .357 Maximum Blackhawk or even in the Seville Silhouette Single Action, is generally regarded by many experienced silhouetters as the finest revolver cartridge for long range shooting ever conceived.The concept was a simple one. Instead of using a big bore for silhouettes, stretch the .357 Magnum enough that it would handle 180 and 200 grain bullets at normal .357 Magnum muzzle velocities. A length of 1.610" was selected and 180-200 grain bullets did indeed attain the same muzzle velocities as the .357 Magnum using 158 grain bullets. Though the concept was simple, carrying it out was not. It was more than a matter of chambering an existing revolver for the new cartridge as stretching the case to 1.610" also meant stretching revolver frames and cylinders a like amount. This is no simple task and certainly required a large investment in time, money, and engineering.

    When the .357 SuperMag from Dan Wesson first appeared on the scene, more than one wildcatter was waiting with reamers in hand to do one thing: Turn it into a true big bore. The largest number of these were turned into .44 SuperMags, and I had the privilege of doing extensive shooting of one such early wildcat, the .44 UltraMag. The .44 UltraMag used .444 Marlin brass cut to 1.600", and this brass being larger in diameter than .44 Magnum brass, was swaged and turned on a lathe until it matched .44 Magnum dimensions. The reason, of course, was to also allow the use of the shorter .44 Magnums in the same cylinder.

    My good friend Lew Schafer created the .44 UltraMag and by careful reloading we acquired the following muzzle velocities, in cold temperatures of 20-25 degrees, brutally cold when shooting a big bore revolver, using a six-inch barrelled Dan Wesson revolver:


    [/B]







          • 200 grain Hornady Jacketed Hollow Point 1718 fps
          • 220 grain Sierra FPJ Silhouette 1670 fps
          • 240 grain Hornady Jacketed Silhouette 1596 fps
          • 265 grain Hornady Jacketed Flat Point 1495 fps
          • 305 grain Cast Gas Checked Bullet 1589 fps
    All loads were assembled with WW680 powder and CCI #350 Magnum Large Pistol primers with the 305 grain cast bullet giving five-shot groups of 3/8"-1/2" at 25 yards.

    Barrels for the .44 UltraMag were standard Dan Wesson .44 Magnum barrels but because the SuperMag frames used different threads, eight-inch .44 Magnum barrels were cut to six-inches and rethreaded. Various .44 SuperMags, based on either .444 Marlin or .30-40 Krag brass, have surfaced since, but the ".44 Stretched Magnum" became a production sixgun in 1988. Dan Wesson and the late Elgin Gates of IHMSA, combined forces to create the.445 SuperMag. Dan Wesson supplied the guns, IHMSA supplied the brass and healthy orders for the new big bore sixgun.

    As of this writing, .445 SuperMags are available only from Dan Wesson in both blue and stainless steel versions. No other revolver manufacturer has seen fit to produce the .445 Supermag, so it is either Dan Wesson or a Thompson/Center Contender single-shot. Brass is available, but no factory loaded rounds. Brass can be acquired only from The Silhouette (phone 208-524-0880), and the latest run will be headstamped ".445 Gates" in memory of its creator.

    Problems surfaced early with the .445 SuperMag revolver and also with the .445 brass. The first guns had oversize cylinders and the brass was not properly annealed. Problems with sizing .445 SuperMag brass has also resulted whether using either .445 or .44 Magnum carbide sizing dies both of which often raise a sharp ring of metal right above the base of the fired shell. Standard non-carbide .44 Magnum sizing dies will give better results. In my reloading of the .445, I use neither .445 nor .44 Magnum sizing dies but instead opt for a custom RCBS .44 Schafer UltraMag sizing die that puts a slight taper on the case from base to mouth, and is much easier on brass. It is somewhat of a nuisance to use as cases must be lubed and virtually hand fed into the very sharp, very flat base of the sizing die, but the results are well worth it. Most sizing dies have a slight funnel shape at the bottom to assist entrance of the case mouth; the .44 UltraMag die does not.

    Except for the case-sizing cautions, reloading the .44 SuperMag is the same as for reloading the .44 Magnum. A good heavy crimp is required both to keep bullets from moving forward in recoil as the big sixgun is fired, and also to get the powder started burning properly. Powder selection is a little different as I stay with H4227, WW296, H110, WW680, and AA#1680, staying away from any faster burning powders.

    The same bullets that work in the .44 Magnum also work well in the .44 SuperMag with my preference being for the heavier bullets in the 290 to 310 grain weight range. The .44 SuperMag is a an exceptionally accurate cartridge and this accuracy is even further enhanced by the use of heavyweight bullets such as the SSK J.D. Jones designed #310.429 flat point, the NEI #295.429 GC (available from BRP Bullets, 1210 Alexander Road, Dept. AH, Colorado Springs Colorado 80909) or Sierra's 300 grain jacketed flat point. Speer also has a 300 grain bullet in the works but I have not yet received any for testing as this is written.

    Large Rifle primers are usually recommended for the .445 UltraMag/SuperMag/Gates, but I have yet to determine a nickel's worth of difference between the use of Large Rifle Primers and Magnum Pistol Primers. Muzzle velocities and accuracy are both virtually identical whether Federal or CCI Large Rifle Primers, or Federal or CCI Magnum Pistol Primers are used.

    The .445 SuperMag has been touted as a silhouette revolver and it is IF properly loaded. It makes little sense to load it to the hilt and try to shoot 40, 60, or 80 targets with it. Even with the ten-inch barrelled version, which is just a shade under four pounds, recoil can be quite disconcerting with full house loads. For silhouetting, I would stay at 1650 feet per second or less with the 220 grain Sierra silhouette bullet or 1500 feet per second with the 240 Speer silhouette bullet. Using the 220 grain Sierra and 34.0 grains of H4227, muzzle velocity is 1648 feet per second according to the triple sky screens of my Oehler Model 35P chronograph. The same load in an eight-inch barrel goes 1635 fps, six-inch gives 1541 fps, and the Super Fourteen T/C Contender milks it for all it is worth and yields just barely over two thousand feet per second.

    With the 240 Speer silhouette bullet, I use either 33.0 grains of H110, 31.0 grains of H4227, or 38.0 grains of WW680 for the 1500 feet per second muzzle velocity range from the ten-inch barrelled Dan Wesson. These same loads will do 1350 to 1450 feet per second in the six-inch and eight-inch barreled DW's and right around 1850 in the Super Fourteen.

    The heavier weight bullets really make the .445 worthwhile and the replacing of the ten-inch standard barrel or eight-inch heavy barrel that were standard equipment with my early .445 Dan Wesson with a standard weight six-inch barrel makes the .445 handle as easily as a Smith & Wesson Model 29. Well, real close anyway. The shorter barrel transforms the big Dan Wesson from a clumsy, heavy competition pistol to a very packable hunting pistol.

    Hunting with the .445 SuperMag means heavyweight bullets such as the 265 grain Hornady Jacketed Flat Point, the 300 grain Sierra Jacketed Flat Point, or cast bullets such as NEI's 295 grain Keith style or SSK's 310 grain flat point. Using 31.0 grains of H110 with the latter three bullets in the 300 grain weight range yields impressive muzzle velocities with the six-inch barreled Dan Wesson. Even with this relatively short barrel length, the 300 grain cast bullets will go 1500 feet per second giving a lot of power from a small package, or the 300 grain Sierra Jacketed Flat Point will do 1300 feet per second with the same load. For a slightly less powerful load, try 34.0 grains of WW680 with either of the 300 grain bullets.

    LOADS FOR THE .445 SUPERMAG

    FIREARM: DAN WESSON MODEL 445
    CHRONOGRAPH: OEHLER MODEL 35P
    PRIMER: FEDERAL #210
    TEMPERATURE: 70 DEGREES



    BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
    SIERRA 300 JFP 29.0 GR. H110 1299 1290 1220
    30.0 GR. H110 1302 1294 1242
    31.0 GR. H110 1395 1394 1295
    32.0 GR. H110 1445 1429 1369
    32.0 GR. WW680 1144 1121 1100
    33.0 GR. WW680 1229 1163 1133
    34.0 GR. WW680 1284 1247 1191
    35.0 GR. WW680 1340 1293 1253

    BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
    BRP 295 KEITH* 29.0 GR. H110 1447 1443 1376
    30.0 GR. H110 1512 1502 1477
    31.0 GR. H110 1608 1572 1498
    32.0 GR. H110 1635 1607 1527
    32.0 GR. WW680 1397 1344 1336
    33.0 GR. WW680 1435 1406 1405
    34.0 GR. WW680 1554 1496 1442
    35.0 GR. WW680 1568 1541 1514
    36.0 GR. WW680 1612 1550 1538


    BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
    SSK 310 FN** 29.0 GR. H110 1446 1442 1402
    30.0 GR. H110 1501 1472 1421
    31.0 GR. H110 1546 1494 1491
    32.0 GR. H110 1575 1563 1544
    32.0 GR. WW680 1399 1375 1334
    33.0 GR. WW680 1492 1462 1444
    34.0 GR. WW680 1572 1521 1500
    35.0 GR. WW680 1601 1547 1517


    BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
    HORNADY 265 FN 29.0 GR. H110 1361 1308 1258
    30.0 GR. H110 1406 1394 1286
    31.0 GR. H110 1486 1459 1310
    32.0 GR. H110 1536 1527 1409
    29.0 GR. H4227 1390 1377 1267
    30.0 GR. H4227 1468 1445 1306
    31.0 GR. H4227 1534 1506 1327
    32.0 GR. H4227 1581 1576 1430


    BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
    SPEER 240 FMJ 32.0 GR. H110 1471 1441 1313
    33.0 GR. H110 1516 1517 1387
    34.0 GR. H110 1522 1525 1442
    35.0 GR. H110 1577 1533 1485
    36.0 GR. H110 1570 1575 1512
    30.0 GR. H4227 1408 1367 1296
    31.0 GR. H4227 1514 1493 1326
    32.0 GR. H4227 1609 1599 1444
    33.0 GR. H4227 1682 1626 1550
    35.0 GR. WW680 1419 1335 1227
    36.0 GR. WW680 1451 1359 1289
    37.0 GR. WW680 1476 1391 1331
    38.0 GR. WW680 1504 1432 1353
    39.0 GR. WW680 1499 1630 1405
    34.0 GR. AA#1680 1256 1235 1045
    35.0 GR. AA#1680 1345 1324 1070
    36.0 GR. AA#1680 1377 1365 1189
    37.0 GR. AA#1680 1388 1376 1252



    BULLET LOAD MV 10" MV 8" MV 6"
    SIERRA 220 FMJ 34.0 GR. H4227 1648 1635 1541
    35.0 GR. H4227 1759 1705 1561
    36.0 GR. H4227 1793 1780 1640
    38.0 GR. WW680 1479 1460 1287
    39.0 GR. WW680 1482 1461 1295
    40.0 GR. WW680 1517 1491 1360


    [​IMG]


    the DWSM revolvers are no longer made but I've seen them sell in the $900-$1400 range)
    average handloads 300 GRAIN AT 1500 fps-1550 fps
    http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

    http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/taffin.asp?Caliber=445 Supermag&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

    http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt445sm.htm

    http://www.sixguns.com/range/supermags.htm

    https://www.starlinebrass.com/


    https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/44-Mag-Brass/
    $177 per thousand cases


    https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/445-Super-Mag-Brass/

    445 DWSM $395 per thousand cases

    https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/500-SandW-Mag-Brass/

    $499 per 1000 cases

    in the end, you get some BRAGGING RIGHTS, for its higher power but you pay more for the revolver, and its heavy, and you need to put up with higher cost , for components and more recoil if you want to use a 500 S&W revolver,
    this is one of those FORD vs CHEVY vs MOPAR discussions where what you personally like, or own, and want, has a huge effect on your perceptions




     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  2. rlphvac

    rlphvac Well-Known Member

    I have a few .357 mag handguns a S&W #19 A Ruger GP-100 and a Ruger LCR I also have a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt and a S&W 629 in .44 Mag I've never hunted with either but the thought has crossed my mind. I do want to take my Ruger 96 .44 Mag rifle out for a spin deer hunting but the shot that I got last year about 150 yards I'm not sure I could have made at that distance and I'm glad that I had my .300 Win Mag because I dropped a really nice 10 point. The deer seem to come by my tree stand but not close this year. Last year I shot an 8 point at about 25 yards that would have been a perfect time for the .44 Mag. This summer I'm going to do some testing to find the range that I can shoot with my handguns and the .44 rifle
     
  3. rlphvac

    rlphvac Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry every time I try to post on any site I get multiple postings
     
  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    don,t let that bother you!
    I'll look into WHY
    ,and delete multi post extras.

    BTW Ive shot a few deer with my marlin 44 mag carbine, and several with a 44 revolver,
    (using the same 300 grain lee hard cast and 21 grains of H110 powder I use in my revolvers)
    out at 120-150 yards in the past, and you'll still have plenty of punch, and still get complete pass through's on broadside lung shots at that range, its still dependent on your knowledge of anatomy and precise shot placement that counts....a 44 mag won,t dump deer as quickly as a 300 mag, but its certainly lethal at that range and if the deer runs a couple yards then tips over its still one shot=1 dead deer!
    Ive seen the 50 and 54 caliber muzzle loader's produce similar results

    I generally don,t try revolver shots much past 100 yards, the revolvers certainly able to do the job, but making precisely placed hits with iron sights can be difficult, as you'll seldom have both the time and a good rest required to make the shot out in the field well past 100 yards ,using iron sights, on a revolver, if the deer's walking , especially where I hunt as brush limits shots to less than 60 yards in most cases.
    keep in mind both archery and revolvers kill due too having the ability of punching holes in vital organs and tissue destruction , not due to the energy levels, an archery broad-head thrown from most bows will have less than 100 ft lbs of energy but it can slice through and exit an elks chest destroying vital organs as it zips through, a handgun like a 44 mag will not have even 1/2 the energy or velocity that the typical 308 win or 270 win deer rifle has yet it can also punch through both sides of an elks chest and exit destroying vital organs as it passes through.
    its up to the hunter to know his games anatomy and have the skills developed through constant practice to use his chosen weapon effectively
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  5. rlphvac

    rlphvac Well-Known Member

    Where I hunt the deer seem to change year to year I never thought that I would have ever gotten a shot much past 100 yards and for a few years that was true but this past year they came from different directions and different ways. They put in a new underground gas line through part of the farm and although its not close to my tree stand the deer habit changed a lot. I will have to test my .44 rifle maybe on water jugs for impact at about 150 yards after I make sure that I can hit the target steady at that range. I'm sure that I can but testing is fun. I'll go to the farm on a weekend by myself and shoot all day long for 2 days thats called stress relief.
     
  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    this should get you in the ball park
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

  8. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  9. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

  10. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey Staff Member

    I was asked to explain
    "why I suggest the use of a rifle throwing a 250 0r heavier projectile, like a 358 win, 35 whelen,
    and up through the 340 weatherby and 375 H&H or even a 45/70 in selecting an elk rifle ,
    yet seem to be perfectly happy to use a 44 mag , 445 dan wesson or even a 480 ruger or a 500 S&W revolver,
    all of which have significantly less power."

    well first I,d point out two very important factors
    (1) big bore revolvers /handguns are rarely used at hunting ranges on large game
    ,over about 125 yards, in my experience 70-80 yards is a very long shot at elk or deer with a big bore revolver,hand gun.
    (2)rifles are expected to have 3-8 times that effective range.
    (3) energy is a very poor way to compare projectile lethality potential.
    (4) hand guns designed for hunting are generally poor choices for self defense as the recoil and penetration tends to be excessive


    even a very powerful archery bow & arrow, combo, would never reach a 200 ft lbs of impact energy
    yet every animal on earth has been killed with a sharp broad head in the correct place

    when you hunt large game the object is to rapidly and efficiently kill that game,
    and thats achieved by destroying vital organs,and knowledge of the games anatomy.
    like the heart, lungs, or through very rapid and extensive blood loss.

    increasing velocity flattens and extends the weapons projectile trajectory,
    but impact velocities over about 2500 fps, with bullets designed to expand on impact, tend to REDUCE penetration as bullet expansion ,
    and resistance to penetration,tends to increase,
    hard cast hand gun bullets don,t tend to expand as quickly on impact and while they cut an impressive wound channel they penetrate surprisingly well.
    in fact rather extensive testing finds that the projectiles design has a great deal to do with its impact performance.
    hard cast lead alloy bullets commonly used in big bore revolvers penetrate just as deeply as most rifles
    a balance between a bullets sectional density and its velocity must be found
    http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm
    in both a rifle and a hand guns used for big game , hunting you'll generally want to select something in the .230-.280 range with .240-.260 being about ideal,
    in hand guns ,
    using a wide melplat, (at least 75% of diam.) hard cast lead alloy bullet
    (IDEALLY GAS CHECK DESIGN)something in the .230-.280 range with .240-.260 being about ideal,

    youll want to select a bullet that will ideally be pushed to at least 1300 fps
    and not much over 1800 fps at safe pressures that will provide good accuracy.
    penetration of a 310 grain hard cast 44 bullet pushed to 1370 fps from a 44 mag zips through a full grown elk,s chest.
    , something a 30/30, 243 win,270 win or a 308 win may not do,
    even with on paper a good edge in energy and certainly impact velocity


    suggested bullet weights
    357 mag= 158 grain-180 grain
    41 mag= 220 grain-250 grain
    44 mag= 270 grain-320 grain
    45 caliber -300 grain-350 grain
    480 caliber 350 grain-400 grain
    50 caliber 400 grain-480 grain
    ideally pistol velocity and the bullet design of the better hunting ,
    cast bullets are most effective if the melplat (nose) is flat ans between 75%-80% of the bullet diameter, its a gas check design and its pushed to a muzzle velocity of at least 1350 fps but not too exceed about 1800 fps and have a bullet in the .240-.260 sectional density range.
    jacketed hollow points should be used only on lighter weight game like deer.
    remember the proper hard cast bullet will penetrate very effectively but it won,t expand rapidly, thus a knowledge of the games anatomy and locations of the vital organs is critical to rapid kills.
    don,t be surprised if the first few large game animals you shoot run off with little indication they were hit, unless you place shots precisely handgun kills will resemble archery hunting and it will take 30 seconds for the game to bleed out, and in 30 seconds a scared injured deer can travel 200 yards making its recovery difficult.
    but place shots precisely and if you used the correct projectile, distances will be much less.



    http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

    Sectional Density Calculator
    http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/density.htm

    http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/external

    bullet stability and twist rates
    http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

    ballistic calculator
    http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator


    http://mountainmolds.com/
    allows custom mold designs
    basically you want to select a bullet in the .240-.260 sectional density range



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    ignoring the linked info is never smart
    http://www.realguns.com/calculators/sectionaldensity.html


    http://handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

    http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/The+Effects+Of+The+Meplat+On+Terminal+Ballistics.html

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectively-handle-a-larger-bore-revolver.12784/
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017 at 11:25 PM

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