sellecting a MIG

grumpyvette

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
I did a great deal of research and asked advice at half dozen welding shops before buying my CURRENT MIG WELDER,and yeah most guys don,t do the amount of fabrication or engine swaps I do, and after talking to and trying several migs and having owned a couple smaller MIG welders before ,I bought this MILLER 252...yeah its overkill for some stuff but its fully able to handle any car related welding that a MIG is able to do

http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907321

READ THRU THIS THREAD AND SUB LINKS
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=10601&p=45477#p45477

I bought a USED 330 amp MILLER TIG and an oxy-acetolene torch to handle the other stuff, and I have had a LINCOLN RANGER 10,000watt generator/arc welder for general welding in the shop for years

BTW I owned a couple 110 volt lincoln and hobart migs and a 180 hobart mig before, they all worked, but the larger amp miller does a better job, on the heavier stuff like frames and suspension brackets, motor mounts, transmission support cross members etc.

BTW THIS is the welder (below)(or the earlier version) most of the pro-welder shops have around here, and they all love them, but most of the guys said that if cash was no problem the 252 miller mig would have been thier first choice!
http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907324

and having learned long ago that a few extra bucks spent up front, on better equipment is usually a much better deal than upgradeing later I got the higher amp machine

youll seldom regret spending cash on quality tools but youll frequantly regret buying crap , the low price seldom makes up for the poor performance, or lack of fine adjustments or lack of durrability in the cheaper machines, yes theres deals to be had but buy a decent name brand of decent capacity, and having a DEALER near you helps

http://www.htpweld.com/

http://www.weldingdirect.com/tig252helsys.html

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/

http://www.hobartwelders.com/

BTW if your debating on the value of spending big bucks on a mig welder vs buying some $400-$600 110 volt toy , you need to step back and take an honest assessment of the type and frequancy of the potential welding youll be doing, if your running down to the welding shops almost weekly , ad dropping $15 here and $45 there, on little jobs that adds up!its a pretty obvious no- brainer you need a decent welder,and keep in mind once you have instant access the welding jobs tend to increase in frequancy and scope!, if you have gone months between welding jobs thats a totally differant deal! why not do what I did, go by a half dozen welding shops, and a half dozen major body repair shops and talk to the techs doing the repairs and ask thier advice as to what THEY would buy if THEY wanted a new shop welder and wanted to both cover all the potential areas, they work on, (well) and not spend a great deal of money...I bet youll find that the 180amp-and 210 amp 220 volt welders get the nod, and that if pressured almost every guy would prefer the 210amp-250 amp MIGS if price was not a big factor in the decision.
remember your better off spending a bunch more once than spending a bit now and a bunch more later too.
LIKE I SAID EARLIER

BTW THIS is the welder (below)(or the earlier version) most of the pro-welder shops have around here, and they all love them, but most of the guys said that if cash was no problem the 252 miller mig would have been thier first choice!
http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.m...

BTW wiring up a 220 volt jack for a welder if you have a fuse box access in the shop area is a very minor deal
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/135341/
 
I posted this reply in another forum but some of you gentelmen need to see it also, the question was asked, similat to this...

"will a off brand 110 volt mig welder be a good addition to the shop"

110 volt migs can do an excellent job on body sheet steel, and exhaust pipe, but they are out of there class on some suspension components


Taken directly from a Joe Kalassa , a welding instructor from Lincoln Eletric

"“Some teams fail to achieve proper fusion, which basically happens, for instance, when you take a little 110-volt welding machine and work on heavy things like shock mounts,” Kolasa says. “Some people feel they can do anything they want with one of the smaller machines that is intended for thin materials. If you were to use that machine when it comes to something like a shock mount, you might as well skip welding it and just stick some bubble gum there instead because it won’t work. It’s a misunderstanding of the welding process that comes from a lack of education.”


Id strongly suggest you buy a 220volt mig in the 180 amp or highr range as it will be able to handle nearly any steel on a car, the 110volt migs will require you to bevel and grind and weld from both sides of the seams on heavier steel like frames and even then wont get the penetration thats REQUIRED

BTW, if your looking to buy a welder ID strongly advise taking a course on welding FIRST so you understand what your looking at and what to expect and so you have a good feel for what your looking to do and what equipment is necessary,then stop by a few large welding shops and ask the owner if hes ever considered upgrading his equipment? stop by a few welder dealers and ask about trade ins.?
most will jump at the chance to unload older equipment if given a reasonable offer, the TRICK is knowing EXACTLY what your looking at, having a good idea as to age and condition and value and getting a DEAL, Id generally avoid anything priced higher than 1/2-1/3 of current retail.
http://www.welders-direct.com/
https://weldingsupply.securesites.co...ogs.pl?UNDEF::
but be fair! include all the accessories in the bid!
look around your local area for the guy or guys that do welder repairs, they can very often get you a decent deal on a used welder or point you to someone whos looking to upgrade thier current equipment that you might be able to make a good deal for on thier older equipment.
just stick to name brands , and ID STRONGLY ADVISE STICKING TO WELDERS that REQUIRE a 220volt single phase electrical feed
lincoln
miller
ESAB
HOBART
HTP
THERMADYNE
because having access to parts and service and manuals is MANDATORY
if you do buy equipment thats USED ask for a demonatration on BOTH the thin sheet metal like patching a fender and exhaust pipes and thicker 1/4-3/8" thick stuff
A good welder can get the job done using cheap equipment. A bad welder will screw it up using the best equipment money can buy. Good equipment helps and its a bigger help to the inexperienced then to the journeyman.
THATS VERY TRUE UP to a point, and that point is reached when the amps are not available to drive the heat fast and deep enought to get the job done correctly, you can,t just go over and over a spot and get a good result.
YOU don,t need to spend a ton of cash either, but YOU DO NEED to know the differances and advantages and charicteristics of welders so ID strongly advise taking a welding course at a local college or night school a trade school etc. before spending your cash as its sure to pay off in much better choices being made.


DON,t forget the welder requires a MATCHED electrical feed in your garage and it may require a tank of shield gas and may require accessories or longer cords, and consumables like wire for MIG units or sticks of filler rod for stick or tig welders, all those things add up fast!

I REALLY wish some of you gentelmen were located far more locally so I could allow you to play with some of my welders and see the differances, IM sure some of my friends would bring over thier smaller welders and let you compare them also.
If I could have only one it would be a decent torch & tank oxy-accetolene combo as its so versital, my stick welders like the lincoln ranger are good also for most things on a car (steel) but every application has its ideal tool and youll be better off taking a welding class at some colledge or trade school or finding some friends who have experiance and welders to play with BEFORE making a choice than just blindly buying ANY welder

read this link below

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80366


this is about as cheap a welder in a mig unit that Id feel good recomending and ITS not nearly what you can buy for a few hundred more

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100395926



example

http://cgi.ebay.com/LINCOLN-POWER-M...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


BUT LIKE I SUGGESTED THE SMART ROUTE is to take a class at a local trade school or college and know what your doing and what you vwant BEFORE buying a welder


BTW HERES MY SHOP MIG

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLERMATIC-252...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

HERES MY SHOP ARC WELDER

http://cgi.ebay.com/LINCOLN-RANGER-...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



YOU DON,T NEED SOMETHING LIKE THIS BUT ITS GREAT TO PLAY WITHI think youll be much happier with a name brand 220 volt 180-210 amp mig for your shop in the long run,

lincoln
miller
ESAB
HOBART
HTP
THERMADYNE

ALL have decent examples
Id ask several welding shops in YOUR area for advice as to the BRAND and DEALERS who supply the best SUPPORT in YOUR AREA
...YES you do generally get what you pay for in features and quality, so look into features, duty cycles and warrantys, service/support

http://cgi.ebay.com/Thermal-Arc-Fab...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.htpweld.com/products/mig_welders/mig_200.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/Millermatic-180...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/LINCOLN-POWER-M...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/ESAB-MIGMASTER-...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/HOBART-500527-H...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


BTW HAVE A GOOD FIRE EXTINGUISHER HANDY and while most of this is OBVIOUS to the more experianced guys, but your need to wear the correct gear and use common sence while welding
at a minimum wear a NON-SYNTHETIC ,(many synthetics melt instantly or are very flameable) VS(cotton, denim, and leather don,t generally flare or burn instantly ), wear long DENIM sleeve shirts, long leg slacks and sturdy leather boots,(cleated thick rubber soles that insulate helps) with the DENIM slacks OVER the boots not tucked loosely into open tops like cowboy boots and a use self darkening helmet, and wearing leather welders gloves and a reversed cotton baseball cap sure won,t hurt if your doing a good deal of welding, simply because YOU WILL EVENTUALLY get radiation burns (fairly quickly from the arc/flash of welding if you don,t ) on exposed skin,
(think of this as a bad sun burn, OR WORSE, that can happen in minutes in some cases) and repeated exposure too radiation burns is never a good idea.
and welders tend to create HEAT, sparks and falling bits of red hot metalic crud that makes sandels, short sleeve shirts and shorts a very dumb idea in most cases. keep a DECENT SIZE CO2 fire extinguisher handy, and a water hose with a spray nozzle that pressurized kept near by is a good idea.
never weld over your head if you can move the part to where you can weld at bench ;level, yeah! it takes longer to remove and install the parts like exhausts or mufflers and yeah! its not always practical, but both safety and weld quality benefit, so if you have the option weld on a bench vs the car!
THINK! before welding, HOT stuff falling on tender bits of your anatomy or starting the car on fires seldom FUN, and clamps, use of a barrier for shielding the stuff near the weld location with a wet towel or sheet of galvanized metal , use a GREAT GROUND, or in rare cases flowing water , it is only comon sence, but be aware that you can also get ELECTRICUTED if your REALLY DUMB, SO THINK IT THRU BEFORE you start, have a buddy help, and know what your doing, before you get in over your skill/knowledge level

if your useing an oxy-acetolene torch, make DAMN SURE the tanks are turned off before putting them away,and the fittings are tight and nothings leaking before use,and be sure local laws don,t prohibit you from home use of a oxy-acetolene welder

41652_H_SH315_MW355.jpg


http://www.denimexpress.com/
http://www.tuffrhino.com/Welders_Cl...dVariation=6&gclid=CN7B8IuV0o0CFQyPYAodPEEPZA
https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF:OR:terms::PS

[color] BTW at this point you might be wondering if the time effort and expence is worth it in aquiring and learning to use a welder [/color],,,,I have yet to meet a dedicated & experianced HOT RODDER who doesn,t think his welder is almost a mandatory part of the shop, they will easily pay for themselfs in most shops in under a year, and some times in MUCH less time....
EXAMPLE
Ive seen guys fabricate custom exhaust systems from 3" stainless that would easily cost $2000 plus at most muffler shops for under $700 in parts , Ive built custom transmission mounts for $45 that listed for over $200 in catalogs, etc.
 
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