SLP 1-5/8" SS headers & full exhaust - too restrictive for 400 Hp?

Loves302Chevy

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
I was reading the Frank the Tank thread (pages 13-14) about Brian's good advice pertaining
to header and exhaust choices to achieve his HP & TQ goals. Then I started reading Grumpy's
links and now I am questioning my own exhaust system on the 84 TransAm.

Unfortunately, I can't find any images of these headers or exhaust system.
The headers are 1 5/8", basically a shorty or tubular exhaust manifold design. The rest of the exhaust is 2.5" pipe after the headers Y'd together to the cat converter, and then a single 3" pipe back to the SLP muffler with dual 2.5" outlets. I plan on fabricating a fake cat converter. Inside an oval converter case will be a 4" pipe with a spiral insert. The pipe will have holes drilled on the sides with stainless steel scrubber pads packed around it. This should hopefully eliminate any drone and make the car quieter without restricting flow.

Spark plug clearance is already tight, and the 1 3/4" versions would make it even worse. The complete system is 409 Stainless Steel and cost $1200. 17 years ago. Except for adding a 3" cutout at a 45 degree bend right before the "converter", I'm not modifying this system and there is no clearance for bigger pipe. And I will most likely have the headers and Y-Pipe ceramic coated. So in reality, I have a single 3" open pipe.
The charts below show that will support 339 HP. All cars must compromise in places; is this going to be a huge bottleneck?
In the past (with actual cat converter), using a G-Tech, I ran 112 mph in the QTR, but the ET sucked because I had so many tuning issues and unknown problems to work out. The car could not spin the wheels off the line, but once it hit about 3000 rpm, it took off like a rocket.

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Run it Mike.
112 mph trap speed is decent for just 334 cubic inches.
$ Is tight for all right now.
There is Oval exhaust tubing you can purchase later.
Fabricate better.
Big Tube headers help. But don't do much good with Fitment issues or if you cant afford present .
 
Its Real hard to fit True Dual exhaust on 3 rd Gen Camaros and Trans Ams.
The Subframe underside must be cutout and notched.
Welded back together.
I have helped on a project like that prior.
DIFFICULT !

Best I have seen is a Custom Single 4.00" ID Exhaust system on an IROC Camaro.
Street Strip car.
Chicago .
I am sure it costed $2,000.00.
Custom made for the owner.
 
I would research Muffler options.
Grumpy had a Nice post on Mufflers tested last month or so.
DYNOMAX CAME OUT ON TOP.
 
I would research Muffler options.
Grumpy had a Nice post on Mufflers tested last month or so.
DYNOMAX CAME OUT ON TOP.
I believe I read that one.
The exhaust cutout will take care of any restrictions when I'm running the QTR. And I'm
fabricating the "fake" cat converter to help keep the car quiet and hopefully reduce any drone.
I do not want to be noticed - at all, for any reason. If I could add a cloaking device I would.
I can't remember what the inside of the SLP SS transverse muffler looked like - glasspack or
chambered. The first one I actually "blew up". It started with a stress crack. I tried to tig weld
it and that's when I found that you can't weld stainless that has already had exhaust run through it.
The carbon gets into the pores of the SS and just when you get your molten puddle going, the carbon
contaminates the weld and blows a hole. Then you are trying to fill holes, making it worse and worse
blowing more holes. I was able to get an ugly patch on it, but more cracks developed with further use.
I found a Flowmaster big block chambered muffler to fit while I was fabricating a whole new end cap
to repair the SLP muffler. New stainless and I cleaned and scrubbed and wire brushed the muffler
where it needed to be welded. Then I had my friend Kevin, an FAA welder - what this guy can do with
welding is amazing, weld it for me. He was totally shocked when he could not get a good weld either.
Luckily, I contacted SLP and they guaranteed it, even with my repair attempt, and sent a new muffler.
They might have had problems with the first ones, because the replacement had extra bracing and
welds to keep the case from flexing.
I will have to look at my old notes, but I don't think there was any difference in the QTR mile times
between the two mufflers.
 
SLP Catered to the Corvette guys in the past too.
They made Nice parts.
I think since you have under 350 cubic inches your have more Flexibility .
The 334 sbc has run strong in the past.
Does what 383-454 has trouble performing at times for many.
 
The Trend on Max Pontiac right now is Huge Stroker engines 535 cubic inches or more.
I haven't seen better ET Than what has been done in the Mid 1990's with 400-455 cubic inches.
Cast iron heads used too.
The exhaust hardware is not up to par I suspect.
 
Grumpy promotes all exhaust Hand Fabricated.
He knows....
Just Money is tight for
all right now.
Stupid Bam....He is going.
To Hell.
 
The Trend on Max Pontiac right now is Huge Stroker engines 535 cubic inches or more.
I haven't seen better ET Than what has been done in the Mid 1990's with 400-455 cubic inches.
Cast iron heads used too.
The exhaust hardware is not up to par I suspect.
I'm on page 19 of Frank the Tank where Jimmy is trying to decide what heads & cam to use.
Brian is the only one that tried to make the point about the headers & exhaust being a restriction.
Brian is right. You can make as much HP as you can afford, but if you choke it down from an
inadequate exhaust system, then you have wasted your time & money.
The single biggest improvement to my 84 TransAm was the SLP cat back exhaust system while it
was still a 305. It got their 1 5/8" headers when it became a 334.
The exhaust becoming a restriction is also why I resurrected the 334, instead of building a 383.
 
Don't Forget Grumpy has Valid Tips he gives Mike.
We are all waiting for better days ahead.
$ earned.
Then buy the parts.
Or fabricate it.
 
Be Really Kool when you get the 334 ci SBC back in your Trans Am Mike.
Like A Time Machine.

There really are not many Stellar Normally Aspirated Cars out there that perform to expectations on paper when at the DRAG STRIP.

Its an old joke with many non Chevy guys .....Can't run fast with Nitrous Oxide.
But I have seen several in person perform Very Strong.
 
Also many Butt Hurts took place when The Hellcats came out.
Should have been there on Digital Corvette Forum with me.
Total Denial.
 
I can,t believe many of the conversations I see posted on line where youll find guys trying to find a way to make their older n/a performance car perform better,
when they base the older existing cars engine and drive train expected performance goals, against a completely different type of car & engine and then expect to compete successfully using a combo of components that are decades older in design,or working at a huge disadvantage.
example
the hell cats engine design is based on a SUPER CHARGED HEMI with heads that flow in excess of 300 cfm un supercharged
now its performance is NOT that exceptional, in fact its main claim to fame is its a off the show room floor 707 hp car (it may have a bit more or less actual hp ) but at a cost of near $65-$70K delivered, price, and with a decent driver it is reported to run in the high 10 second 1/4 mile time range.
the brand or badge on the fender does not mater nearly as much as the skill and experience of the engine builder and the guy doing the suspension set -up, engine tune and the power to weight ratio
Given a reasonable budget a BBF or BBC, or even a 500 caddy engine in a reasonably light weight car like a t-bucket of AC cobra clone will eat a hellcat,t listed ET numbers for lunch

I know Ive built faster cars for much less cash. and so can any of you guys if you approach the problem logically and keep basic physics in mind!
the hellcat weights over 4000 lbs and has about 700 flywheel hp, from roughly a 390 cubic inch super charged injected hemi
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/hellcat.html
do a few calcs
http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php
want something faster?
well the route Id suggest is simply reduce weight and increase the engines and drive train efficiency, displacement, an old school 496-540-632 bbc engine with a centrifugal supercharger easily has the potential especially in a lighter car,of your choice with a correctly built 4l80E transmission and a DANA 60 or FORD 9" rear differential, to handle the power,
and you don,t necessarily need to go the super charger route!
you can certainly buy or have built the engine required for under $20K
stick it in a camaro, nova, corvette, A.C. cobra clone, or similar car that weights 2500lbs to 3500 lbs and youll easily out perform the hellcat for less money


corvettewheelie.jpg




http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/project-cars/sucp-0612-supercharged-496-motor/

http://www.lunatipower.com/News.aspx?id=15

http://www.shafiroff.com/chevy-power-adder/bbc-long-block-drag-race-super-charged.php

http://www.shafiroff.com/chevy-crate-engine/632-bigdawg.php
 
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Its all part of the Hotrod Fun Grumpy.
Helcats are for many the Worst Nightmare.
To me its A Dream come True.
STREET RACING IS BACK.
CHEVY BBC.
PONTIAC 455.
VS HELLCATS
 
Don't Forget Grumpy has Valid Tips he gives Mike.
Agreed and appreciated. At the point I was at reading Frank the Tank, it just seemed that everyone got caught up in the engine,
like many do, and forgot about the total combination.
Be Really Kool when you get the 334 ci SBC back in your Trans Am Mike.
Like A Time Machine.
Time machine is right. I just hope that feeling of excitement is still there or returns. All that work
I put in the first time around and it failed anyways. But with the help of all on Grumpys, it should be different this time. This kind of
help was not available back then. All the engine problems are solved. Plus I will not have to deal with the CCC system this time
and the car will be a little simpler and lighter with removing the A/C, air injection, and all those hoses and wiring. Maybe a little more
weight savings from the RamAir hood. It's not a lightweight.

The rear axle is the 7.5/7.625 10 bolt. I added an Auburn posi with 4.10 gears. Still stock axles and tires are BFG Radial TAs 275/60R15
on stock 20 slot rims. I will beef it up further with one of those aluminum rear end support covers that have the bolts to preload the caps.
619-101-7.5G.jpg

I will also be changing the crush sleeve to solid spacer. My question is, do I measure the length of the crush sleeve and machine and/or
use shims with the solid spacer to achieve the same length as a starting point? I realize that ultimately I want to end up with the proper
pinion bearing preload.
 
Agreed and appreciated. At the point I was at reading Frank the Tank, it just seemed that everyone got caught up in the engine,
like many do, and forgot about the total combination.
Time machine is right. I just hope that feeling of excitement is still there or returns. All that work
I put in the first time around and it failed anyways. But with the help of all on Grumpys, it should be different this time. This kind of
help was not available back then. All the engine problems are solved. Plus I will not have to deal with the CCC system this time
and the car will be a little simpler and lighter with removing the A/C, air injection, and all those hoses and wiring. Maybe a little more
weight savings from the RamAir hood. It's not a lightweight.

The rear axle is the 7.5/7.625 10 bolt. I added an Auburn posi with 4.10 gears. Still stock axles and tires are BFG Radial TAs 275/60R15
on stock 20 slot rims. I will beef it up further with one of those aluminum rear end support covers that have the bolts to preload the caps.
619-101-7.5G.jpg

I will also be changing the crush sleeve to solid spacer. My question is, do I measure the length of the crush sleeve and machine and/or
use shims with the solid spacer to achieve the same length as a starting point? I realize that ultimately I want to end up with the proper
pinion bearing preload.
I would choose the Crush sleeve to set the pinion preload Mike.
The Solid pinion spacer and shims have their advantages but the weak link is in the small diameter of the GM 7-1/2 - 7-5/8" ring gear diameter.
26-spline axle shafts too.
I have built a couple of 3rd Gen Camaro Trans Am 7-1/2 10-bolts. I used crush sleeves all of them to set pinion preload.
A few ran low 11's on Nitrous....Praying they would stay together.
I set backlash real tight. Straight 140 w gear oil filled.
 
The Jegs Diff cover will help strengthen the 7-1/2 10-bolt Mike.
Use an inch pound torque wrench to set the bearing caps preload.
10-15 inch pounds only I recall.
 
There is a crush sleeve in there now. I just thought that if I finally get the off-the-line throttle response
like I should have had in the past, it would be good insurance. I will also be changing to a 3200 rpm stall TC.

Solid Pinion Spacer Kits
Our solid pinion spacer kits are over 3X stronger than the typical o.e.m. crush sleeves. What does all this mean? What these parts do when correctly installed is set the distance between the inner and outer pinion bearings (bearing preload). At the same time, these parts also locate the pinion gear relative to the ring gear within the casing. So, why does the crush sleeve fail? It fails because it is too weak to resist deflection when high pinion loads are applied. This is why we often hear people say, “my ring and pinion finally blew up”. The failure is not instantaneous as it would be if the gears were over-powered. The failure happens over time, due to repeated hard driving. High pinion loads deflect the pinion gear over and over until the o.e.m. crush sleeve becomes “loose” and cannot properly maintain the bearing preload. This also allows the position of the pinion gear within the casing to move causing misalignment of the ring and pinion gears. Over time, this leads to “howling” gears followed by “ground up” gear teeth and eventually destroys the gears. Protect your ring and pinion with one of our high strength steel solid pinion spacer kits. All kits come with instructions and shim sets.
 
Its more of a problem issue on Ford 9 inch rear ends Mike the crush sleeve failing.
A production Ford 9 inch rear has a 1.313" inch pinion stem diameter.
I think GM 10- bolt 7-1/2" is 1.438 " pinion shaft diameter.
Larger 10 - bolt GM 8-1/2 & 12-bolt musclecar 8-7/8" is 1.625"
Dana 60 Truck & Mopar Musclecar the pinion shaft diameter is 1.626" - 1.625"/
Pontiac Olds 9.3 1957-64 the pinion shaft is 1.875 " diameter.

To set up solid pinion spacers correct the entire rear diff must be taken apart.
Solid pinion spacers are used factory stock in all C3 Corvette Dana 44 from 1980-82.
Corvette C4 1984-1996 with Dana 36 7-7/8" & Super Dana 44 8-1/2".
Also used in all Truck Dana 60 from 1953- present.
And Mopar Musclecar Dana 60 1966-71.

Up to You Mike.
Something else likely to fail before the crush sleeve does in your 10-bolt diff.

Fastest 60 foot times you want to push is 1.5 -1.6 at the track.
1.0 -1.3 60 foot no can do......Dana 60 Territory Or Pontiac 9.3 Diff.
 
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