starting out looking for a decent hunting rifle for deer/elk

heres a few related videos, and a few related comments
well I had GARY a local guy ,stop by last evening, and he brought over his new browning BAR semi auto
in caliber 270 win, he purchased it as a used rifle,
but was concerned that it really would be a bit too light, or lacking in power to adequately put down any elk on an upcoming hunt he has in Montana.
I assured him that with proper bullet placement and proper bullet selection it would be a fine choice.
I strongly suggested he get a good quality scope and mounts.
I suggested he buy a decent quality 2x-7x scope,
and try hard to keep the scope size and weight and length minimal.
I also suggested he talk to CARLOS, who is a guy who has used a ruger #1 single shot in caliber 270 win,
for 4 decades on several elk hunts rather successfully.
Ive loaded the hornady 270 150 grain #2740 bullet ,
Ive loaded his 270 win ammo over a 215 fed primer with 55 grains of h4831 for decades,
this provides about 2800 fps , its both accurate and lethal.
the truth is that while its interesting to discuss, but decades of watching the guys I hunt with use a dozen rifles in various calibers,
has convinced me that ,
its not the cartridge or rifle choice, nearly as much as the experience and skill of the guy holding the rifle, precise shot placement is always critical to success,
and you can,t ignore physics a larger mass projectile traveling at similar or higher velocity imparts greater impact energy and damage and tends to penetrate deeper, given equal construction.

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and his understanding of the games anatomy and his rifles limitations
my late hunting partner RON used a BLR lever action in caliber 358 win for decades,
while its not as flat shooting or high velocity as a 270 win,
it certainly worked rather effectively with its 250 grain bullet on every elk he shot.
His favorite load was a speer 250 grain bullet at about 2350 fps loaded over 44 grains of imr 4064
neither guy failed to kill elk with a single well placed shot, and one of my mentors,
used a winchester bolt action in caliber 257 roberts and 100 grain speer bullets.
again, he was consistently successful, but to be fair he limited shots to under 250 yards max,
which was not much of a handicap as where we hunt shots over 150 yards are all but non-existent.





https://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/...es-best-elk-rifles-elk-guns-elk-hunting-guns/

https://www.outdoorlife.com/top-10-cartridges-for-hunting-elk/

https://gunnewsdaily.com/best-elk-hunting-rifles/

https://www.petersenshunting.com/editorial/enough-gun-elk-stopping-power/325927

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2020/1/14/top-10-elk-cartridges-of-all-time/

https://jimzumbo.com/explore-jim-s-blog/entry/2016/02/is-there-a-perfect-elk-rifle

https://www.elk-hunting-tips.net/best-elk-rifle2.html
 
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heres a rather informative article

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/hunt365-assembling-an-alaskan-hunting-rifle-part-one/

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/hunt365-assembling-an-alaskan-hunting-rifle-part-two/

personally I consider the Weatherby stainless steel/fibermark rifle
in either caliber 340 wby or 375 H&H noticeably better choices
but I would bet the 300 wby would be a bit more popular ,
while still providing decent power with correct ammo choices
due to marginally flatter trajectory and lower recoil,
(NEVER MUCH OF A CONCERN,
as you seldom require more than one or at most very rarely two shots)
in the past 50 plus years I never felt the rifle I carried,
lacked in accuracy,
flat trajectory or knock down power, while,
carrying a Weatherby rifle in caliber 340 or 375 H&H
and seeing the results it provides a very high confidence level.
Ive never seen any elk run off without its being very obvious he was not going far
and most drop on bullet impact, any elk even,
making it 30-40 yards is very rare once the shots well placed.
http://armusa.com/WeatherbyRifles12.htm
 
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don,t ignore the w338 win mag, its one of the cartridges that has a very good reputation, and nearly flawless track record
I know several guys who use one and no one I know has ever been disappointed in its performance using a 210 nosler or 225 grain hornady bullet
and if you want a damn impressive elk rifle it would be rather difficult to improve in a BROWNING BAR in caliber 338 win mag
Ive never needed a second shot with one on any game
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yeah, most of us like light weight and shorter rifles that don't have much noticeable recoil.
I have tended to hunt remote canyons and steep timbered slopes,
your choices in equipment can result in improved results
Ive though through my choices and watched the results and learned over time,
I long ago stopped carrying a 10 lb magnum rifle if I intend to walk more than a 3-4 mile distance into any area,
yeah I really prefer a 375 H&H or 340 Weatherby rifle with a bi-pod, and a 3x9x high quality scope.
if I sit and glass from the rim rock ledges at game travel choke points,
but thats generally an option limited to only a few areas on the first few days of the season.
those rifles are impressively effective, but a P.I.T.A, to carry in remote canyons on steep timber slopes.
but over time you generally lean by watching the results you get from equipment choices,
and its shot placement and intelligent bullet selection and a knowledge of the games anatomy
that maters more than a cartridges published energy and a flat trajectory that maters most.
and yeah I own a couple rifles that fall in that general category,
Ive used a ruger #1 light weight in 270 win with excellent results.
Ive never had any issues killing game even out past 350 yards.
Ive even installed a great peep site rather than add the weight of a scope and mounts on the ruger single shot,
to minimize weight on that rifle to keep the weight well under 6 lbs,
I use a 150 grain speer bullet loaded to 2800 fps.
and Ive hiked into some really remote canyons carrying that carbine, in the search for impressive mule deer and elk.
yeah, the light weight is beneficial,, and certainly by the end of a couple days of hunting that light weights appreciated.
yet, I found out, its amazing how often I see guys shocked at the improved results..
they get if they are willing to put up with a bit more rifle weight
,its been my experience watching everyone I've hunted with, practice at the range before we go on out of state hunts,
that few practice shooting from field positions enough to be consistently accurate.
there are some benefits, a bit heavier barrel, higher quality optics ,and your ability to actually use the rifle easily, and consistently does mater.
and a more rigid action tends to increase your odds of hitting your target at longer ranges.
one of my other favorite rifles is a browning BLR in caliber 358 win, its at least two-three lbs heavier,
with its 4x scope and I load 250 grain speer bullets to 2300 fps, this tends to limit the max range the rifles easily used at,
to about 300 yard even with the better optics, but over decades it became rather obvious that I rarely got any opportunity, in the areas I hunt,
to make shots at ranges over about 200 yards regardless of the rifle I carry. and just like the 270 single shot,
the BLR in 358 win is very effective and it never fails to provide quick decisive kills, and has the option of a few rapid repeat shots
but might be a handicap in some conditions due to the more limited , or less flat trajectory.
I've rarely needed a second shot with either rifle but its a bit reassuring to work the BLRs action,
and have a second shot ready a few seconds faster than the ruger single shot.
now when you dress out the game you notice a difference in the way the bullets perform, while either rifles lethal,
the 358 win so loaded, tends to punch deeper and exit on most chest shots, while the 270 win is devastating to lungs/heart shots it rarely exits.
Ive noticed most of the deer I hit with the 358 win or 270 win, have dropped rather quickly and not traveled very far.
you don,t need a magnum or super flat trajectory to be successful, but extra power or bullet weigh rarely hurts if you shoot well either.
 
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My go to.... Remington model 700 BDL chambered for 7mm Mag with 140 grain Wiinchester Ballistic Siver Tip.
 
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Pictured above is my late son Garrett on the left with his Ruger M77 chambered in a 270 Winchester Mag.
On the right is his buddy Steven holding his 30-06 ... Both exception Rifles though the Win Mag was a tad over kill for deer in the
terrain at our family property in the Upper Pennisula of Michigan. My oldest son hunts with a Marlin 30-30 lever action which we feel
is the better choice for brushy swap land conditions. Besides....lever actions are just plain fun.
 




yeah high velocity flattens trajectories but it generally requires and results in far faster barrel wear,
and faster cartridges tend to use lighter projectiles to reduce the cartridges projectile mass, thus generally reducing penetration,
now to be fair, deer generally can be reliably killed at ranges under about 400-500 yards,
with any cartridge that has at least 100 grains of bullet weight,
and out to any range where it retains about 1000 ft lbs of impact energy.
elk are best hunted with a 130 grain and at least 1500 ft lbs of impact energy.
but its been my experiences that increasing bullet mass to at least 150 grains and ideally 200 grains,OR MORE
and maintaining 1500 ft lbs of impact energy for deer and 2000 ft lbs for elk does improve results and consistency/lethality.
and yeah shot placement is as always critical.
given any option I want to carry a cartridge with a 225-250 grain bullets
realistically, and statistically almost all big game is killed at ranges under 400 yards
successful shots made exceeding 400 yards are made in less than 20% of hunts,
I've spent 55 plus years hunting deer and elk and I've had realistic opportunities' to shoot game at over 400 yards on only about 6 times, Id bet most of the game I've shot and game the guys I've hunted with have shot, over the last 50 plus years, were killed at well under 150 yards
mostly because game animals don't stand out in the clear open fields in most areas, preferring thicker cover, brush and canyon areas, aspen, birch, oak, etc. or at least staying close to edges of cover/concealment and feed & water sources.

LONG RANGE CALIBERS FOR ELK ARE NOT MANDATORY

now obviously this is a bit tongue in cheek, because different areas may require different equipment, and if you watch most videos or out door shows, or read most hunting magazines, you might get the idea most elk and mule deer are usually shot at long distance in open grass lands. While this...
garage.grumpysperformance.com

velocity or bullet mass and caliber, how much is required

Ive hunted deer, elk and hogs for close too ,5 decades,... don,t get too concerned with the ability of the weapon you choose to do the job, its mostly shot placement not velocity, energy and/ or bullet weight, and your consistent ability to hit the games vitals that should concern you, and of...
garage.grumpysperformance.com
 
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