stuff you learn talking to morrons

grumpyvette

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I dropped by a local gun shop to pick up cleaning brushes in 44 caliber and I had to wait while the counter guy explained to a newbee potential customer , that he didn,t want a 44 mag for home defense......reason,(youll love this)
"it had not nearly the stopping power of a 357 mag! he explained that in the old days gunfighters like bill hickock use 36 caliber pistols because they were good man stoppers, but when the army increased the bore size to 38 caliber in the Spanish American war and dropped the powder charge the pistols failed to stop crazed morro tribesmen so the army increased the bore to 45 caliber, to compensate, for the lack of powder,that worked, but not really well so in the 1950s the army and cops got together with smith and wesson and demanded the caliber be reduced and the powder charge be increased to duplicate the original loads bill hickock used to produce the 357 magnum, once the velocity was increased back to the original levels in the 357 mag and the caliber dropped back to the original 36 caliber they had a real man stopper again. the 44 mag can,t equal the 357 mag because the velocity's to low and the calibers too large to allow sufficient penetration.
the military finally realized their mistake and went to the 9mm Beretta, because the 9mm is a 36 caliber with more shots and the round nose hard ball fmc bullets don,t expand so they get the necessary penetration that allows them to stop determined attackers ."

he then turns to me and asked what I wanted, I said a couple 44 cal brass brushes.........I need to clean my little 44 mag, because if the barrels not clean accuracy falls off, he grins and says "your probably using cast bullets, they lead the barrel unless every 6th shot is a jacketed bullet, then tells the guy that if you don,t shoot jacketed bullets in a 357 mag the lead builds up to the point the bullets can,t get thru the barrel."

after that I just smiled and walked out.......theres no sense in even discussing things with MORRONS
 
I may agree somewhat that in my opinion I would take a 357 over a 44mag for H.D. but not anything to do with stopping power & I would take my Glock 40 over the 357 for the same reason & after quite a few shooting sessions may choose my new Glock 9mm over the 40 & I never knew all I had to do to clean my guns of lead fowling is to throw a couple jacketed bullits through it. Shit & all this time I been using patches & brushes & cleaning my ass off now I can throw all that useless stuff away
 
yeah! its rather amazing what you can "LEARN" from CLUELESS counter guys,
I think if I was a department or store manager running a sporting goods store gun counter,
Id have asked the potential new employee a few dozen questions regarding firearms knowledge.
WELL BEFORE allowing him to talk to customers.
btw the formula for bullet energy is
bullet weight in grains x velocity x velocity/450240= energy
you can read several hundred of the hand gun stopping power studies
but what youll find eventually is that most conclude that WHERE,
you place a bullet is far more important than most other factors,the FBI,s study of thousands of shootings suggest, the bullet must have the mass and velocity and be designed to penetrate about 12"-to-16" in ballistic test gel,to work effectively.
only hits to vital organs or skeletal structure, and nerve centers bring rapid results
to provide a consistent rapidly mortal, or disabling wound, that will stop an attacker determined to harm you.
facts often ignored in self defense handguns
requirements in a self defense pistol are far different than for hunting


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...un-for-hunting-hogs-deer-elk.1864/#post-19702

in a defensive pistol a balance must be found between ease of accurate shot placement, ease of concealment,total reliability,weapon cost,ease of maintenance,
magazine capacity, ammunition cost, and availability ,bullet penetration etc.
but keep in mind statistic,s show the vast majority of confrontations by criminals and attacker,occur at very short range (under 20 ft),
with little or no prior notice,
so a weapon that works instinctively and in an uncomplicated manor,
that can rapidly be accessed and used,dependably and effectively is critical,
thus constant practice in its use is also a major factor,
AS IS OBVIOUSLY THE USERS NEED FOR CONSTANT SITUATIONAL AWARENESS

Nervous_system_diagram.png

most experienced medical forensic tests, in those studies show theres a relationship, in the projectile mass and energy that indicated cartridges like the 9MM,357 mag-4o caliber-45 caliber
pistols that have at least a 115 grain bullet and about 350 ft lbs of energy will work if you can hit the desired vital target areas.

yes there are some advantages to larger projectile size mass and energy, as they tend to produce larger and deeper wound damage, but, increases much past 700 ft lbs and 200 grains , produce negligible improvements

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/selecting-a-good-self-defence-handgun.1128/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/8/29/handgun-stopping-power-sizing-up-your-options/

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=4593

http://www.unapologeticallyamerican.com/handgun-bullets-and-the-myth-of-stopping-power/

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

http://shootershaven.com/best-choices-in-self-defense-ammo/
 
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My nightstand gun is a full size Sig 226 9mm & I'm going to buy a Taurus Judge the Sig I can hit what I'm aiming at & with the size of my house & layout the Judge is the perfect gun in my opinion maybe not for me but the wife & daughter its a can't miss gun or as close as it can get to a can't miss gun
 
I just gave my wife a Glock G43 & I have to make up some loads for it I'm going to try 90 grain Hornaday hollow points when they arrive & try to load them down for her. She is small 80 lbs. & I had a hell of a time finding a gun she could hold & rack the slide I know 90 grain isn't much but if I can teach her to shoot that accurate then with practice move up gradually in weight
 
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