TBucket 200-4R Transmission Project

Discussion in 'transmission and Drive train' started by Indycars, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    Ok this is where I go, "Oh shit....what the hell was I thinking!!! Why didn't I just keep the THM-350 transmission that I had."

    Oh well it's too late for that now. The torque converter is here and the rest of my parts should be here next week. The torque converter has stall speed of 2800 RPM with these features you see below in the quote, cost was about $350.

    http://www.extremeautomatics.com/
    I first sent an email to Extreme Automatics but never received a reply.

    http://www.ckperformance.com/index.html
    So then I sent an email to Christoforos Kokkonis at CK Performance and got a reply back. A few days later I had a long conversation with Chris and decided on the parts that I needed. He suggested a kit with everything I needed including all the hard parts that I would need to upgrade, cost was about $900.



    I got to put my new trans holding fixture to work last night. Should make the trans easy to work on, I can rotate it to most any position needed now. No wrestling with it only the bench or floor.


    ViewOfLeftSide_2735.jpg
    ViewOfValveBody01_2732.jpg
    ViewOfValveBody02_2737.jpg
    ViewOfVBFrontHalf_2744.jpg
    ViewOfVBRearHalf01_2743.jpg

    Just my luck, as I get started on this project, my consultant from Belgium went on a 4 week vacation! :D :p :D



     
    Last edited: May 17, 2015
  2. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    Not moving very fast right now. I have the bottom end dis-assembled, the valve body is off but the valves are still in it.

    I'm going out of town for a week or so, therefore I won't being getting much done for awhile.
     
  3. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    please take a great deal of pictures, and let us know all you can during the transmission rebuild and upgrade, listing tools and parts used would be great, as far fewer guys know how to rebuild a 200r4 than know how to work on a first generation chevy V8.
    keep in mind the transmission shift points and converter, stall speed, you want the converter stall to allow near instant access to the upper torque curve under full throttle, but you don,t want the engine needing to reve much above 4000rpm under light loads and part throttle, in an ideal world youll have a shift kit, and converter stall speed matched in that transmission, so under light throttle the engine rpms stay reasonably low and the trans shifts at lets say, 4200rpm, to the next higher gear, but under full throttle , the trans should shift several hundred rpm past peak horse power in the rpm range

    http://www.autorepairmanuals.biz/site/5 ... 83-2004RTM

    http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/V41tune.html

    http://www.auto-repair-manuals.com/GM-T ... anual.html

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...g-a-performance-transmission.7082/#post-40015

    http://www.tciauto.com/tc/trans-dim/
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.monstertransmission.com/GM-Transmissions_c_4314.html

    http://2004r.net/

    http://web.archive.org/web/200701300142 ... rebld.html

    http://web.archive.org/web/200701281733 ... 2004r.html

    http://web.archive.org/web/200701251259 ... tches.html

    http://web.archive.org/web/200704201144 ... enoid.html

    200r4 trans codes
    1984 - 4CQ
    1985 - 5CQ
    1986 - 6CZ
    1987 - 7CZ
    1988 - 8CZ
    http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/200-4r.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2015
  4. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    I've been on vacation for almost two weeks, so that's why there has been no posts on my part. If you thought I had dropped off the face of the earth.....that's why! :)

    It was 106°F the day I left and 112°F when I returned. Makes it hard to come home from work and go directly to the garage at 5 pm, so I've been taking care of other business since returning from vacation last Wednesday. Most of my work will have to be completed on Saturday and Sunday mornings until the temperature drops to below 100°F for a high. Sorry guys I just can't take that kind of heat.

    I will try to take some pics this weekend of the part I've received from CK Performance.



     
  5. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    YEAH! I know ALL ABOUT HEAT! its easily 100F plus in my shop mid day, before I turn on the fans, here in florida, if it was not for being in the shade and having 20 plus 60" ceiling fans plus two 2500cfm exhaust fans it would be miserable, its still not great but its far better once the fans are on and shop doors open

    [​IMG]

    its difficult to see clearly but theres 3 rows of 7 fans in each row , each a 60: commercial fan, plus two exhaust roof fans and since that time I added two more floor fans, the combined result is a bit noisy but makes for a constant breeze
     
  6. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    Wow......20 plus ceiling fans! :eek: Don't they call that a Category 0.5 hurricane??? :lol:

     
  7. mathd

    mathd solid fixture here in the forum

    lmao nice one :)
     
    Indycars likes this.
  8. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    Remove the valve body just before leaving on vacation, but today I got around to removing all the
    valve assemblies from one side of the valve body. As usual I took several pics, after every valve
    that I removed I took two pics as you can see below. I'm not going to bore you with every pic I took,
    but you get the idea.

    I found a thread about another trans and the guy used this fixture to hold all the valves in their
    correct orientation. I even started a drawing to plan for something similar using the VHS slip
    cases, but maybe I don't need the board as long as I number the VHS slip cases and document
    with pics.

    http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/show ... 570&page=3

    ValveBodyHoldingFixture.jpg
    VB_Disassembly01_2828.jpg


    I took two pictures from two different perspectives after every valve that I removed as you can
    see from the next 2 pics.

    VB_Disassembly02a_2829.jpg
    VB_Disassembly02b_2830.jpg


    And finally I have all 7 valves out of the valve body. I actually took 2 pics after every valve, but
    I'm only show a few pics so you get the idea.

    VB_Disassembly07a_2841.jpg
    VB_Disassembly07b_2842.jpg


    After I had all the valves out, I took this pic from the end view so I could see exactly how they
    lined up with the valve body.

    VB_Disassembly08_EndView_2845.jpg

    This shows how I intend to keep the valves organized.

    VB_OrganizationVHS_SlipCase_2846.jpg

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2015
  9. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    Doesn't look like much, but this cost me $320 for the torque converter and $900 for the rest of
    the parts you see. That's ONLY $1200, but who's counting.

    When the parts came in, I did an inventory check against the parts list that was included. When
    you have never been inside an automatic trans before, identifying all the parts was a challenge.
    The first thing was the measure a dimension and count how many of a particular item I had and
    then try to match them up with the parts list. I did have to call Chris at CK Performance to verify
    some of the parts. One set of friction disk had 10 pieces that should have been a combination
    of 6 and 4 items with a different thickness of .080" and .090". Chris said they didn't have the
    .090" disks in stock, so he sent me 10 of the .080" disks that have a better material. I have to
    wonder if the .010" difference with make a difference. I'm hoping it's just a matter of using a
    different Selective Washer to set the end play correctly.

    CKPerformanceParts_2854.jpg

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2015
  10. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    this is going to be a huge learning experience for both of us , Ive never disassembled a 200r4 that far either.
     
  11. mathd

    mathd solid fixture here in the forum

    I always wondered about how to rebuild an auto.
    I gotta follow this tread closely :)
     
  12. busterrm

    busterrm solid fixture here in the forum

    Hey Grumpy, its a 200-4R, Rick corrected me when I was up there last month. I kept saying 200 -R4, and he kept correcting me, hahahahahaha. Lets say it outloud, TWO HUNDRED FOUR R !! :lol:
     
  13. DorianL

    DorianL solid fixture here in the forum Staff Member

    I am BACK!!!!

    I'll post a few pics of camp later if I can.

    Anyway, you will LOVE that 200-4R. I drove 500 miles to camp in Bavaria and another 500 miles back. The Chevy didn't miss a beat. I cruised at 75-80 MPH@ 2200-2400 RPM the entire trip (save traffic - there with one fan I was a cool 160 degrees.) IT was a very comfortable drive. The OD + lockup converter really are nice. AND, it is a consistent 11-second car.

    Loaded with all my gear + my son's + two hunting bows and a rifle: I was getting about 16MPG
     
  14. DorianL

    DorianL solid fixture here in the forum Staff Member

    Incidentally, I will be replacing my VB + separator plate and governor with units from Extreme Automatics.

    I want ncreasingly hard shifts the higher the RPM.
     
  15. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    Good to have you back finely, it seems like it's been longer than 4 weeks!!! :)

     
  16. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    Some of the valves are a bit hard to get out. So far I have been able to push them along with a
    scribe and if that didn't work I would tap the valve body on the vise. But being very careful
    not to damage the worm casting.

    VB_UsingScribe_2859.jpg

    I always keep the VB orientated the same way during disassembly. Therefore I numbered the
    valve lineups on the RIGHT side 1 thru 7 and valve lineups on the LEFT side are A thru F.

    VB_LeftSideDisassembly_2892.jpg

    Once I removed all the valves from the left side, I could still see one more valve in the VB. I
    determined that it needed to come out the right side and would be included in the valve lineup #4.
    The plug shown in the pic below was down a ways already and when the valves wouldn't move
    after removing the 2nd roll pin for lineup #4, I drove the plug in deeper thinking it was the
    problem. But it didn't want to come out and I couldn't see it well enough to identify what it was.
    All I could tell was it was in the way of removing the last of valve lineup #4.

    VB_PlugWithHole_2900.jpg
    VB_PlugsWithHoles_2907.jpg

    The problem was actually just dirt stopping the valve from moving. But finally I got the plug
    out and that's the first time I knew what it was. After tapping the VB on the vise and carb
    cleaner and more tapping the last valve came out. So if you get into a VB for the 200-4R,
    then only remove roll pins to get the valve lineups out. All my roll pins were long enough to
    be seen from both sides of the VB.

    VB_ValveLineup#4_2903.jpg

    The DVD told me not to remove 2 of the valves if they moved freely, but it didn't seem to
    agree with what I was seeing. Never the less, it is still very helpful information.

    http://store.boxwrench.net/GM-Turbo-Hyd ... p_143.html

    DVD_200-4R.jpg
    ValveBodyIllustration#5.jpg

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2015
  17. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

  18. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    Yes a shift kit is part of what I will be installing. Looking at the picture of all the new parts above, inside the plastic bag is a new separator plate.
     
  19. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member


    To remove the pump, start by taking out the 7 bolts that hold it in.

    PumpRemoval01_2919.jpg

    You certainly can buy a tool that helps with removal like the one below.

    PumpRemovalTool.JPG

    But it's not required or that hard to remove with a large screwdriver. The DVD shows both
    ways. By prying on the back of the pump in the right places it's easy to remove. My
    trans had been sitting for 15 years in a shed, still it was no problem to remove.

    PumpRemoval02_2921.jpg
    PumpRemoval03_2922.jpg


    What the DVD didn't show as clearly as needed was where to pry on this side of the pump.
    It said don't pry on the worm casting, but they didn't show clearly where to put the tip of
    the screwdriver. After removing the pump I looked again several times to see where
    the sealing surfaces were. I should have used the green arrows shown below.

    PumpRemoval05_2932.jpg

    Also don't use the surface shown below. This was covered very well in the DVD.

    PumpRemoval04_2923.jpg

    Just showing that the pump is out.

    PumpOut01_2926.jpg
    PumpPlasticWasher01_2927.jpg

    Not sure if the pump will be usable. Just have to see once I get inside the pump.

    PumpBrokenPieces01_2929.jpg

     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  20. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    finding obviously busted pieces , during the dis-assembly process is rarely a good sign of things to come!
    and finding out why they broke is often as important as just replacing them with new parts
     

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