TBucket 200-4R Transmission Project

from the pictures it looks like you did an exceptional job, in both building the transmission and taking the detailed pictures, you posted, I doubt you have anything to worry about, finding some minor metallic and clutch facing material is totally normal
 
Indycars said:

No Kolene steels and only the band is Alto.

There is a small amount of metal debris, but mostly clutch plate friction material.

The 401 Cubic Brodix Head SBC is extra Torque & HP Powerfull.
Get the 200R4 line Pressure up to Max Fast.
Its slipping at times.
Evident by Steel & Friction dust after 50 Miles.
 
I think it will make it Rick.
700R4 & 4L60E has lots of issues stock .
Can be addressed to an extent.
The stock planets gears are weak.

Buick Grand National had the best 200R4 planets I recall reading.
As long as your 200R4 planets are not damaged be OK.
 
I Shun this thought Rick.
But there may be an issue with your New Torque Converter.
The internal Stator or Impeller took a crap.
Or Lockup Friction inside.
Means pull the 200R4 from the T- bucket.
Check.
Been on my mind for last 24 hours.
 

Why do you think that Brian?

Everything seems to be working fine now. I undid the ground wire that should
have had a switch in it for manual lockup. The first filter change showed little
friction dust and hardly no metal, after all it was all new to begin with.

 
Indycars said:

Why do you think that Brian?

Everything seems to be working fine now. I undid the ground wire that should
have had a switch in it for manual lockup. The first filter change showed little
friction dust and hardly no metal, after all it was all new to begin with.

I dont know Rick,

Describe what the Reminats inside of The Wix Filter feels like to me Rick.
Take a gloop of it & rub between your Thumb & Index Finger.
Then wipe on a clean white rag or shop cloth.
If there is Blood along with Razor sharp Metal particles, Remove the Trans.

If its soft like a New Born Baby's Bottom let it be.

Run as is.
 
Great thread! Awesome pix and such. Lots easier to explain with pix.

I wanted to point out a couple things. I might have just missed them.
First back on page four you point out the bearing down in the planetary. This is a factory upgrade on the later units. I see your core has a pink tag but I can't tell what the characters on the tag are. I used an AA code from 1984 and mine had a plastic washer in there. I disassembled the planets and upgraded to a bearing. This enabled an inspection of all the rollers and such. If you do this keep track of where the parts came out so they get back yo their home and have a correct clearance.

I don't see where you drilled the drainback on the pump behind the seal to prevent seal blow out. I do see your pressures are fairly low so this might not even be needed. I used a seal retainer too but I also did mods to get pressure up.

I didn't see where you soaked the frictions in fresh fluid before installation. On that I didn't see how tight you set up your direct clutches or the setup on your 2nd gear servo.

Just a great amount of info here. Thank you so much for posting it up.

Ps I assembled one of these but didn't go with a bunch of bearings as I figured after talking to engineers that as long as the fluid is kept at a decent operating temp washers should be fine. I do like the tip of using rear end shims to take up clearance. I have also been told that stacking pump gaskets and sizing the mickey mouse washer on a piece of glass and die grit paper can be done to get it where you want.
 
One other thing I did that was notes in the ck nook was to replace the stator to pump bolts and use locktite on em.



Another mod was to drill the hole on that locate pin in the stator support larger for more line on the mickey mouse washer bit I didn't do it and can't remember how big to drill it.
 

Don't remember if I documented drilling the drain back hole for
the pump, but I do remember doing that mod. Yes I'm abit surprised at the pressures,
but BTO seemed to think they were OK. I used their TV system, so that's why I called
them to check. I would have liked to see max pressure around 275 psi.

Direct clutch pack clearance was 0.025" on page 16. Not sure about the 2nd gear servo.

Can't remember if CKP's book recommended replace all thrust washers, but it was just
hard to stop once I was that close.

Oh I definitely soaked the friction plates with ATF.

Thanks for the kind words, a few of those makes my time posting worth it. Good to
have you aboard !!!

 
I looked back to pg 16 , but don't seebthat the clutch clearance is there oh well. I was told not the setbit up tighter Rahm about .007 per friction. I got mine down to about .050 and am using 6 frictions but did insert an extra steel to take up some clearance. I ordered some .100 steels but the supplier was out so I didn't get them.

On that note I used two wave plates/springs in the low/rev and it seems to be good as it makes a nice shift into rev without too much jolt.

I wouldn't be at all happy with your pressures but I've only assembled one. I used a .500 boost valve, .283 rev boost valve and a pink 700 spring in that

spool in the pump. I was also told to put a washer in the over pressure valve between the spring and roll pin as the spring can wear on the pin and become damaged resulting in it bypassing pressure.
If I was better at the intrrwebz, I'd make the pic smaller.

image hosting over 5mb
 

It showed to be page 16 in the pdf file I captured from the website, but I see it's
on page 10 when I go looking for it on here.

I purchased all my performance parts thru CKP and then followed his book.

Here is a better size pic of your pressures. It's not hard to do, check out the link
below. Page down until you see the section called "Preparing Photos for Posting".

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5595

IMAG4999.jpg

 
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If I can take it, upload it, copy a link and post it in a thread all from my phone. I can't get any of those other screens to come up to resize, haha. I'll have to chase my children off the desktop and see what I can come up with.

I do like that $22 snap ring pliers. I googled it, and even went to the its site but the only place I saw it actually offered for sale was a corvette place . I'm gonna save up for a pair.
 
I went to pg 10 and got the low down on the clutch packs and their assembly. Those are some tight clearances. Especially if you checked em before soaking but I'm no guru. I see you used the 16 spring return in the direct so I think that will help. I was advised not to set direct up too tight as centrifugal force will apply it at high rpm. I was also told the forward didn't matter as much as it isn't a "shifting" clutch and is applied when the vehicle isn't moving.

I was reading through again(ill do it 5 or more times as my reading comprehension isn't very good) and got to the pump part. I wanted to point out that the pump slide spring is about volume. As the rpm increases the slide is drawn to the center lowering the pump volume. If you look at it disassembled without the spring and slide the slide through its range you can see how the volume gets reduced.
Wow that planet got cratered by the busted rings.
The pressure is controlled by the boost valve, reverse boost valve and the pressure spring. The pressure relief and check ball controls over pressure conditions.

Good stuff on your documenting the assembly.
 
With the new gauges I wanted to put the transmission temperature sensor in a
different location. So I located the new sensor in the output line going to the cooler,
figuring this would be the highest temps anywhere in the trans. The previous sensor
was located in the pan as seen below.

FP03_AluminumPanInstalled_4821.jpg

Previously the highest temp was 165°F, but that’s also hard to read on the gauge below.
Now with the new location and a digital gauge I’m getting 215°F after 45 minutes of
normal city driving.

VFP03_VDO-310107.jpg

I ordered from Amazon a brass tee and bushing to make up my connection to the
trans and allow a sensor to be installed in the cooler line.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041NRGPY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


BrassBushing.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006PKKXTM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

BrassTee.jpg

I purposely routed the fluid so it would go straight thru the tee and the sensor would
be a 90°. Keeping restriction to the fluid flow to a minimum. Ninety degree turns are
a major restriction to flow. The unusal tee allowed me to have one less connection and
possible point for a leak to occur. The alternative was to use a tee with 3 female
connections and add a short ¼ inch NPT nipple.

FP01_TransTempSensorConnection_6136.jpg
 
if your getting 215F trans fluid temps you NEED a larger and more efficient trans cooler , trans fluid temps should ideally rarely , and only briefly exceed 190F

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-cooler-info-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/

http://web.archive.org/web/20070128173316/http://members.aol.com/powerrslid/thm2004r.html


coolerdiagram.jpg


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-13182

prm-13182_xg_xl.jpg
 
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With so little room on the T a large trans cooler presents a problem.

Those Moroso Finned Oil Coolers work real nice Rick.
Single & Dual Finned made..
Not sure of exact Fluid temp drops but many have used alone with no fan.
I used one on a friends 1970 Mach 1 Mustang.
Even after high speed driving open the hood and touch the braided lines and cooler. Would not burn you.
Felt like 120 F.
Used it as a stand alone.
No fan. Mounted it in front of the radiator.
It also has a large built in full flow oil cartridge that can be replaced.
I want one for my old 1963 GP. Turbo 400 Trans in the car.
 
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