TBucket 200-4R Transmission Project

Discussion in 'transmission and Drive train' started by Indycars, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Rick already said the 4L80E will not Fit.
    No Room.
    The Torque capacity was far exceeded Grumpy 200R4.
    Once Rolling down the Road driving wheels are still gripping hard.
    Huge wide tires on the T.
    Low torque trans from your own charts.
    One I found too right from the Buick Grand National Website.
    All had 200R4.

    Only 1 trans with stock high torque capability will bolt right into the T.
    Rick does not want.
    TURBO 400.
    He does not make enough power to break it even in stock form TH400. Still has a safety factor of 2: 1 ratio.
     
  2. JohnHancock

    JohnHancock Well-Known Member

    Grumpy, check out “transmissionbench.com”. They offer an 8 hour build video on a thumb drive. It’s about $50 I think and free if you buy a kit for $800 I think. I look at so much stuff I can’t keep all the prices straight!
     
  3. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  4. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

  5. Strictly Attitude

    Strictly Attitude solid fixture here in the forum

    That is because they don't lack in size. Surface area is key along with heat distribution.
     
  6. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    That 4L80E rebuild Kit is also 3 X Times more Expensive than my Turbo 400 Rebuild Kits Stage 3 With Alto Red Eagle and Kolene Steels.
    I can build a Turbo 400 good for 1000 HP & 1000 FT/LBS input Torque for under $500 in all hard parts without a torque converter.
    Try that with any other Transmission.
     
  7. Strictly Attitude

    Strictly Attitude solid fixture here in the forum

    That is why I consider it the best bang for the buck transmission to build right now. Especially in a light car where a lower rear gear ratio can be used that was built for torque over hp. OD is desirable at the same time but not the most cost efficient. I know my converter was $550 and only rated for 500hp. We all know over 500hp prices to play increase significantly. Unless you have a 400 or 4l80e then that number moves up, allot of documented 750hp on stock units.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  8. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    .
    Still making progress while I'm waiting on my new Billet Overdrive planet carrier to arrive. The forward
    clutch pack needs .020 to .030 inches of clearance, while the OEM calls for .030 to .050 inches. I set
    mine at the high end per CKP.

    Both forward and direct clutch packs use the exact same friction disks, the difference comes in the steels.
    The direct uses a thicker .090 inch, while the forward uses a .078 inch steel. The steels can be swapped
    around to get the clearances needed.

    FP01_Clearances01.JPG

    FP01_DirectClutchClearances_00730.jpg

    FP01_ForwardClutchResizeClearances_00727.jpg

    Teflon sealing rings are used on the forward clutch (2) housing and also on the input (3) shaft. The
    OEM uses a Scarf Cut rings in several places, but I will be using the Solid one piece seal rings. This
    means they have to be stretched enough to slide down the shaft to install in their grooves. To make
    this easier, I put the rings in almost boiling water and also heat the shaft with a hot air gun. When
    ready I grab the ring and pull/stretching the ring with the side a scribe while working my way around
    the ring. This makes them too big, so before final assembly of the trans, they need to be resized by
    sliding them inside their mating component.

    Resizing the Teflon sealing rings below, leave them for 30 minutes or longer if you have the time. I usually
    find I can leave them over night. When I pull the shaft out I will be inspecting the rings to make sure they
    have not gotten twisted.

    FP01_TeflonSealRings_00731.jpg

    FP01_ForwardClutchResizeTeflonRings_00726.jpg
     
  9. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

  10. JohnHancock

    JohnHancock Well-Known Member

    Would you not want the shaft in the freezer to shrink it?
     
  11. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    The shaft in the freezer would only be 1/2 thousandths smaller, where heating the shaft I figured
    would keep the Teflon ring more flexible. The ring needs to grow in diameter by 3/32 inch.
     
  12. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    .
    Got two ring lip seals reversed between the Direct Clutch Piston (609) and the Lo/Rev Clutch Piston
    (649). The inner lip seal are nearly identical in OD, Dave Husek of Turbo Buick Performance helped
    me by calling me after I had sent him an email with a photo showing the problem I was having with
    the Lo/Rev piston seal from the Direct Clutch.

    I did have some trouble with the the larger seal and trying to install it into the Direct Clutch piston. But
    it went in and I installed the piston into the Direct Clutch housing (604) without too much trouble, they
    are that close.

    Directly below is the photo I sent to Dave Husek.

    FP12_DirectClutch&LoRevClutchReversed_00732.jpg

    FP09_LowReverseClutch(646)_00677.jpg

    So while I had it apart, I took a few pics of the upgrade to the Direct Clutch Apply Ring (609). Shown below.

    FP12_DirectClutchBilletApplyRing(609)_00733.jpg

    FP12_DirectClutchBilletApplyRing(609)_00734.jpg

    FP12_DirectClutchBilletApplyRing(609)_00735.jpg

    I have another UPGRADE to do, still have my Billet OD Planet Carrier coming next week.
    .
     
  14. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    .
    Installed 3 more magnets out of a Hard Disk drive. Will have to see if they hold up to the heat. If they
    do, then I have a plentiful supply of magnets for future projects.

    FP01_Pan_00736.jpg
    .
     
  15. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    .
    Got a couple more upgrades to the trans this week.

    First a Billet (center) OD planet carrier (524) from Dave Husek.

    FP02_ODBilletCarrierUpgrade_00744.jpg

    Dave also sent some upgraded springs (16 springs #611)

    FP02_DirectClutchSpringUpgrade_00745.jpg

    I used the website "The Spring Store" to compute the spring rate, wanted to see what the difference was. Dave's springs doubled the spring rate from 17 lbs/in to 34 lbs/in.

    Pretty neat website, when you finish the calc, they also suggest their closest spring with prices.

    https://www.thespringstore.com/

    DirectDriveClutchSpringsCalcs.JPG
    .
     
  16. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    in theory that should help a bit
     
  17. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Gotta keep the temps down this time.
    Engineer something better.

    One Pontiac guy said to make a 200R4 live you need a Grand National Valvebody or SS Monte Carlo Valvebody.
    Don't know enough about differences.

    Transgo shift kits best.
    What Pros do otherwise usually kept secret.
     
  18. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    Rick? any more progress or problems located that need to be addressed concerning the rebuild on that 200R4 trans?
     
  19. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    In the process of setting the "Rear Section End Play".

    My clearance at this time is zero, should be .002 to .004 inches per CKP. So I'm having to remove
    material from the Selective Washer. You can buy 5-6 different thicknesses, but what I need is
    something a little smaller than the smallest one available.

    To have something I can hang onto, while I'm removing material I hot glued to washers together.

    FP03_RearSectionEndPlay_00758.jpg

    FP03_RearSectionEndPlay_00756.jpg

    Interesting tidbit, I could tell that the process was removing more material as you got closer to the
    OD. Even thou I would rotate the washer every 10-15 seconds.

    FP03_RearSectionEndPlay_00759.jpg

    FP03_RearSectionEndPlay_00750.jpg

    Photo below is from the first build, but it shows how to measure the Rear Section End Play.

    FP03_RearSectionEndPlay_03883.jpg
     
  20. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    amazing photographic skills , and quite useful info,THANK YOU
     

Share This Page