TBucket 200-4R Transmission Project

[DorianL]

Do all the compressed air tests. Make sure that the clearances are spot on with a dial indicator. The is trans loves correct clearances. I had mine all in at 38 thou, IIRC. I spent a lot of time on this... swapping steels till I was spot on.

Was there metal and clutch material there? Sometimes a return spring gets munched.

Hmmm, I cannot recall how much I trimmed back the OD piston. We can dig that up I am sure. I only added on clutch between a steel and the pressure plate. It gives a nice positive feel to the OD. I am very happy with that mod.

How do the clutches and the BAND look...

 

[Indycars]

Do all the compressed air tests. Make sure that the clearances are spot on with a dial indicator. The is trans loves correct clearances. I had mine all in at 38 thou, IIRC. I spent a lot of time on this... swapping steels till I was spot on.

Which clearance are you referring to exactly??? Maybe one of the end play settings???


Was there metal and clutch material there? Sometimes a return spring gets munched.

I haven't noticed anything that looks like a spring in any of the munched-up materials.


Hmmm, I cannot recall how much I trimmed back the OD piston. We can dig that up I am sure. I only added on clutch between a steel and the pressure plate. It gives a nice positive feel to the OD. I am very happy with that mod.

Did this take a set of special plates where each one is slightly thinner so the amount of material machined off is less?


How do the clutches and the BAND look...

I'm replacing all the friction materials and steel plates.....is there some other reason you are asking about them?

 

[DorianL]

The clutch pack clearance - you put clutch packs under compressed air pressure and you should see this cealrance IIRC.

It's just clutch material then?

No, you just trim the piston + add a friction to the two already there- this is a no brainer.

Just trying to get an overall appreciation of the health of the trans...

 

[grumpyvette]

I REALLY wish I was there,with you, and both you gentlemen were there with me, because Id both love too help out, and learn as we work on the transmission, and constantly get your feed back,on whats required , working on that transmission.
Ive also got at least 3 projects that I need help on, and it would more than likely be a help for you guys to have access to my tools, and shop and experience as it would be for me , to have access to your skills.
Thats one factor in this hobby thats always been a huge P.I.T.A., in my experience, that is that you seldom find honest and trust worthy friends, who are willing to pitch in and help each other, that are local.

 

[Indycars]

Well you know we don't have hurricanes in Oklahoma, even better, you don't have any
grand kids in Oklahoma to baby sit!!! Maybe you should think about moving!

Sure would like to have access to your shop and your experience!!! What projects
do you have on your plate?

 

[grumpyvette]

the main ones the same as its been for several years, installing one of the big block chevy engines and 4L80E transmissions I have in the shop in my 1985 corvette,
and the problem is partly it really takes more cash than I have on hand, and partly motivation, its far easier to work with someone to bounce ideas off and someone who makes good suggestions or can just point out what your doing wrong, where you dropped the wrench , or some one who can pull or push from a different location.
(every time I think Ill have some extra the roof leaks or the plumbing needs work or the kids need something paid for etc.)
now I can work around that lack of cash, and still make progress ,temporarily, toward my goal. by just installing a fairly stock 454 and getting all the components fitting correctly, then, go back and install a better engine later., once you are working with a properly functioning big block,with all the accessories and drive train working, a simple swap to a different big blocks child's play, that takes less than a week end, but getting all the accessory brackets, and drive train installed is a bit more time intensive.
and partly the problem is it really takes more than one guy to smoothly do the engine swap, Ive done the swap several times on friends cars so theres few likely surprises but having some help speeds up the process, because I have a good deal of trouble being in two places at once and theres lots of times when you need to be adjusting or moving things from both above and below the engine compartment to get things properly lined up/

heres two related threads

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=151

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6

 

[Indycars]

Were are getting close now to having everything out of the transmission.

Remove the snap ring. They usually recommend a tool to remove the Low Reverse Clutch Housing,
but again I used the engine stand to rotate the trans until the bell housing was pointed down
and let gravity help me get the clutch housing out.



Finally the LAST SNAP RING!!! Then you can just lift out everything that's left in the case. I
had already removed the output shaft by twisting it until all the splines lined up and was
able to get it out. But I should have just left it in and used it to lift out all the components
still left in the case. It would have made a good handle.



I still had the Low Reverse Clutch Seal that needed removing from the pan side. The DVD
recommends a #4 Easy Out ground off until it just fits, but I did the same type of thing
with a Lag Bolt. You will have to cut the end of the bolt off, since it will bottom out before
the threads take a hold on the seal. Once it's screwed in, it's a simple matter of pulling
it out of the case.




What you see laying on the bench is everything I just pulled from the trans in this post,
except for the low reverse clutch housing. You are looking from the output end of the
trans, instead of looking from the input side as you pulling components out of the case.




I'm at a milestone here, with a bare case and all components from the center section
laid out on the bench in order.



And here is the bare case to prove it, after it's been to the car wash.




Labeling all the components in these pictures has been a pain, but it's also the best
way to learn all the NEW nomenclature associated with a transmission.

 

[grumpyvette]

Im both amazed at your photographic skills and rather impressed that your involved in some transmission rebuild that Id bet 90% of the guys would not get close enough to to poke with a stick!, its really nice to see you getting involved in something like this because, win,lose or draw, the result will be, your going to learn a great deal and so will the people reading this thread!

 

[Indycars]

One year ago, I would not have even thought about doing this myself. But this forum (You) and
Dorian have inspired me to jump in and try it.

In a few months I might be cussing both you! :lol: :lol:

 

[Indycars]

I don't believe I have a problem, but wanted to see if someone else thought differently.

I've cleaned up the dark area you see in the Intermediate Servo with some used red
Scotch Brite. I cannot feel any difference between the dark area and light area when
I run my finger over the surfaces.

Anyone think there might be a problem with the seals working properly on this surface???

 

[Indycars]

Even thou everything is out of the transmission case, that doesn't mean it's all apart yet.

Before I ever got started on this transmission I wondered if I could completely get it apart
with the tools I already had. The DVD shows using a special spring compressor tool that
cost close to $100.

I happy to report I always found a way to get where I wanted to go or like the pics show,
compressing the spring packs so I could remove the snap ring.



This does require a vise that will open at least 6 inches, 7 would be better.

 

[grumpyvette]

you need to use what you have available.
theres lots of times that you can use common tools to accomplish many jobs they were not designed to do, but be aware that theres some jobs your bound to screw up if you don,t use a tool designed to do a specific job, so think things thru, don,t just rush into every job.

 

[mathd]

Nice ill have some knowledges when come time to rebuild a auto trans in the futur It look like a fun job.

 

[Indycars]

It look like a fun job.

Especially once I'm driving and everything is working!

 

[Indycars]

Got to my 2nd trans up on the engine stand and started pulling the pump and other pieces
that I needed to see if they were any good.

The pump looks to be in nice shape.





Remember how bad the first planetary gear set looked.



The inside of the assembly looks good also.

 

[DorianL]

Yup - having two transmissions seems to be helpful.

Ummm, are you sure that the top half of the pump is in good shape? It should be perfectly flat - your fingernail should NOT catch on it.

The slightest wear there can lead to a loss in pressure.

 

[Indycars]

I see your point about two transmission more clearly now!

I guess you are looking at the wear shown in the pic below. Yeah I should have said, nicer
than the first pump, but not perfect.

When you machine this surface, then you would cut ALL THE WAY to the outside edge of
the pump body and not just the area where the vanes ride? Correct ???

You also mentioned that the stator support shaft should be pressed in first and then the
machining done at exactly 90° to the shaft.

 

[DorianL]

Correct and correct...

Needs either to be machined or replaced. Like that will give poor performance at best.

 

[Indycars]

I took the pump to a machine shop, so more about that later when I get it back.

So lately I have been working on the case, getting it ready for paint. This is what
I started with......



Ninety-Eight percent of the cleaning was done by hand. I tried the car wash, but
it did very little for the dirt that remained after I was done cleaning it by hand last
October when I purchased this used trans.

The picture below may have been after the car wash, but I couldn't tell the
difference afterward. Except for the inside with all the fluid and metal that
remained from the pump rings that failed.

Note the surface of the trans case from the casting process that left it
toooo rough to paint in my opinion.



I'm only about 60% done, but it's looking better !



The hardest part is..... or maybe I should say the most expensive part is trying to
get into the corners like this one with the die grinder and the cartridge rolls.

 

[mathd]

sanding small corner, that remind me when i did sand and polish my blower and intake.. you gotta use the good old finger for the job sometime there is no better way .
Yes it hurt after a few hours or day when there is many of these area.