TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

[Indycars]

Since I'm going to be replacing the damper bolt with the bigger BBC component, I'm also going
to upgrade the balancer while I'm there.

I'm trying to decide if the gold Race Series dampers is any better than the black Streetdampers ....
without the consideration of money.

I found the below info on the Fluidampr website.

http://www.fluidampr.com/what/

Fluidampr Dampers Performance over 6,000 RPM

the damper is engineered to allow for quick acceleration and the rapid increase in torsional vibration frequency associated with higher rpms. There is a clerical difference between “meets SFI standards” and “SFI certified”. The former means we construct our Streetdampers to the same rigorous standards as those that are SFI Certified. The later means, we have worked diligently with SFI Foundation Inc., who sets the rules and regulations for most racing organizations, to have our Race Series dampers independently tested, officially certified and regularly scrutinized by SFI. SFI Certified is a very scientific and costly endeavor to ensure that the construction of our product will hold up in the racing world. Regardless of terminology, the engine owner wins because our Streetdampr are manufactured to the same high level race quality outlined by the SFI Foundation Inc.

I found this, but it's still not conclusive about which damper would be better.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine-harmonics/ati-fluidampr-tci-offer-expert-damper-advice/

LeBarron: Fluidampr offers a value-priced line of non-SFI rated Streetdampr brand dampers for popular small block Chevy and Ford applications. Streetdampr products can be used from mild to heavily modified applications whenever SFI 18.1 specs are not required because they provide similar benefits of broad range protection coverage and superior durability as Fluidampr just without a final protective finish. With some select applications we also offer different diameters and weights. It’s a compromise; a larger, heavier damper will provide more damping but slower throttle response and a smaller, lighter damper will improve throttle response but provide less protection. It is always best to consult with your engine builder or damper manufacturer if you need assistance.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-620101
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-62260d/overview/

Any Opinions ??? Which one would be better ???

 

[Grumpy]

If I was making the choice ID call fluidamprs tech line and ask....
several questions ,
simply because
if your not sure its simply that you don,t have enough facts,
to make a logical fact based decision.

For Technical Support and Product Information Call or E-mail us at:
Phone: (716) 592-1000
Email: sales@fluidampr.com
Office Hours:M - Fr 8:00am - 4:30pm EST.
If after hours, please leave a message and we will get back to you as soon as possible.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-62260d/overview/
but ID certainly be looking harder at the gold version simply because it looks like theres,
been a few minor improvements made and the cost difference is insignificant in the long term
be aware theres internal and externally balanced damper and several diameters from about 6.25", 7" and 8" so ask pointed detailed questions, and know what you need.

 

[Indycars]

How did I know you were going to suggest a phone call ???? I was hoping to place an order at
Summit Racing along with a few things I needed for my Fuel System to get it above $99 for free
shipping. I always have keep several things on my wish list for many months when I need a few
more dollars to get me over the threshold, I just did not have anything else at just a few more
dollars. Ok, I'm guilty of always trying to save a few dollars!!!

OK ..... you caught me, I should slow down, but it will stop progress on my other project ..... the
fuel system.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ion-design-for-500-hp-fuel-system.7787/page-6

I found this thread on a Honda forum(1 of 2) where a Fluidampr employee (Ivan) was present for several
posts. Now this does not address my question of which damper from ONE manufacture is best, but
I do appreciate a manufacture that steps out into the unknown world of forums to state their
experiences without putting down their competition.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-m...s-fluidampr-vs-oem-harmonic-balancer-3187031/

.

 

[Loves302Chevy]

I have used both the SFI certified Fluidampr and the Street Damper. The Street Damper is made to the same specs as the Fluidampr,
but is not actually certified and comes unpainted. The paint I used on my Street Damper is coming off easily, so now that I am able to
get a decent finish with POR-15, I will coat the damper with that.

 

[Indycars]

I have used both the SFI certified Fluidampr and the Street Damper. The Street Damper is made to the same specs as the Fluidampr, but is not actually certified and comes unpainted.

Their reference to 6000 RPM Plus for the GOLD racing balancer is what has me wondering ?

The paint I used on my Street Damper is coming off easily, so now that I am able to
get a decent finish with POR-15, I will coat the damper with that.

I tried painting over the gold Iridated surface on my first oil pan ..... total catastrophe. What kind of
surface treatment does your Fluidampr have?

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...gine-project-dart-shp.3814/page-22#post-20793
.

 

[Indycars]

I called Fluidampr and had a pleasant conversation with Ivan today. Must be the same person in
the Hot Rod Network article below (Ivan Snyder). There are 4 balancers that would physically fit
my application ...... PN 670100, 720101, 620101 and 62260D. They all have the same physical
construction, except for the 62230D (Gold).



Below is the Ivan Snyder's quote from the article. Use the link below to read the complete article

Snyder declined to explain exactly how the centering system works, saying that it is a patent pending
technology that Fluidampr has worked on specifically for its racing dampers, but the idea is certainly
worthwhile. If the inertia ring is allowed to settle, the entire engine can become unbalanced during the
first few seconds after startup which can, potentially, lead to bearing damage. “With the changes to
the CT Gold,” Snyder adds, “we also noticed that above 6,000 rpm–which is where most racers are
most of the time–that the damper exhibited slight improvements in torsional vibration control. So it
is also a little bit better at racing rpm than our standard damper.”

This is the article that Ivan Snyder is quoted about the Centering Technology. .....

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ctrp-1211-quality-damper-installation-shock-absorber/

Below is the dyno test, it's their tests, so judge accordingly.



Below ..... in the same order as the table above, but not according to price .....

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-670100 {$ 234}
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-620101 {$ 282}
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-720101 {$ 418}
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flu-62260d {$ 350}
.

 

[Indycars]

To make my Summit order over $99 for free shipping I ordered 2 rod ends for my rear
suspension. They are at least 30 years old and I would feel more comfortable with some
new ones with. I like the idea of PTFE for the fact that they should be a little bit quieter
when going from coasting to power, sometimes there is a clunk/banging noise that gets
my wife's attention. I was going to replace them anyway, so why not.

They are QA1's, PN XMR12

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/qa1-xmr12
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/qa1-jnr12s

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mez-sw34s

 

[Grumpy]

can you explain the damper graph/chart a bit? it looks like the stock damper (red and purple line far surpassed the fluid damper)

 

[Indycars]

Fluidampr claims that the increase stability of the valve train is the reason for the HP gain. Since
the crankshaft in NOT twisting as far and therefore the camshaft is not fluctuating either, this
increases the valve train stability.

I've had the trouble with ignition spark scatter starting at roughly 3000 rpm. I will be interested
to see if this helps with that problem.

.

 

[Loves302Chevy]

Their reference to 6000 RPM Plus for the GOLD racing balancer is what has me wondering ?

I tried painting over the gold Iridated surface on my first oil pan ..... total catastrophe. What kind of
surface treatment does your Fluidampr have?

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...gine-project-dart-shp.3814/page-22#post-20793
.

IIRC, I wire wheel cleaned it, then primer and paint. But this time I will strip it again and then
hit it with the phosphoric acid. It's the same stuff POR15 tries to sell you for a lot more money.
Just buy a gallon of Prep & Etch at either HD or Lowes for $16. Then I will coat with POR15.

 

[Indycars]

I also used the Por15 on my engine and trans. I was never able to get it to flow out when I
used a brush like they talked about. So I sprayed the outside where it was going to be visible.
It appears to be stuck-like-glue after about 3-4 years. No complaints !!!

That's some good info about the phosphoric acid.....thanks!

 

[Loves302Chevy]

I am removing the rust from the frame of my truck and coating it with POR15, then undercoating.
It is actually in the urethane family, so it cures by absorbing water from the air. That is why you
pour what you need into another container to work out of and keep the can sealed as much as
possible. I ordered a bunch of the small cans, because when it decides to cure, you end up with
a hockey puck inside the can. With the smaller cans, if it happens, you haven't lost a large can.

What I discovered is to pour just enough Goof Off in the POR15 can to cover the surface of the POR15.
Then seal it up and do not disturb it. It must form a layer that air cannot get to the POR15. Then
you just stir it in when you are ready to use it. I have used about 12 small cans so far and the one I
am currently using is giving me the glass-like finish. I can't say the same for the other 11 cans.

The phosphoric works great for prepping your parts. And rusty parts turn gray leaving an etched surface.
All you need to do is rinse it off with water and dry before coating.

 

[Indycars]

I tried diluting it 10% with lacquer thinner to help it flow, but no luck for me with the brush application. I
think it was lacquer thinner, seems the instruction gave some recommended thinner.

 

[Loves302Chevy]

I had a little luck with using turpentine, but it mixes like vinegar & oil salad dressing -
you stir it in and it mixes, but then it begins to separate again. For me, Goof Off is
doing what I need it to. Just don't overdo it.

 

[Indycars]

Surprise Surprise ..... the crank damper bolt threads were not stripped. It was the Mr Gasket lock washer
trying to squirt out between the bolt and flat washer.

I put the bolt back in without the lock washer and it tightens up with NO problems. Oh well I'm going
to replace the Power Products damper with the Fluidampr Gold balancer. I've always felt that I
missed the mark with a quality damper that matched the rest of my build.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-7845







.

 

[Grumpy]

well, I hope it exceeds your expectations, and yeah! I'm, glad it was not a serious issue, or stripped threads

 

[Loves302Chevy]

Use some Loctite on it, Rick, if you are not going to use a lock washer.

Here is a tip: when installing the new balancer, about 1" in from the end that goes on the crank first,
wipe some of your favorite silicone sealant around the ID of the bore. Then install. It will roll itself
into a ring around the circumference, sealing the potential oil leak there. Yes, the keyway provides a
path for an oil leak.

 

[Indycars]

Nice tip, I do think I'm getting some seepage in the front.

 

[Indycars]

Is there any reason not to go with the largest head available on the damper bolt?

The Mr Gasket has a 5/8 inch head (Wrench Size) and you can see what it did to the lock washer
and flat washer both. Just not much surface for the load. From ARP I have 3 choices .... 5/8, 13/16
and 1-1/16 inch. Other than the price, why not use the 1-1/16 or part number 234-2502.

The ARP bolt is another 1/4 inch longer also, which I checked and it's not a problem. Unless the
Fluidampr is a different thickness than the Professional Products damper.



https://www.summitracing.com/compare

 

[Grumpy]

no reason at all, the larger bolt head makes it far less likely that the bolt head will round off if your using it to manually turn over the engine and obviously the 200k psi rated alloy steel, rated 7/16" bolt strength has not changed so no mater the size of the bolt head its that bolt body that might twist off but thats more related to the breaker bar and the carelessness of anyone trying to spin over the engine manually.
I've used the 13/16" version for decades