TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

grumpyvette said:
given the info stated ,let me know what CRANE AND CROWER SUGGEST, but keep in mind for a street driven car will in most cases be much better matched to a cam thats maximizing the 1800rpm-6000rpm power band, and having a strong 3000rpm-6000rpm plus power band, peak horsepower is a bit less important in a street cars engine that having extended durability and a strong mid rpm torque curve
in an 1800 lb T-bucket ID SELECT SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THESE, with a 3000rpm-3200rpm stall converter, keep in mind your not trying to maximize just the peak horsepower numbers , having bragging rights and impressive peak horse power numbers is cool , but its having instantly responsive and massive torque that allows the car to destroy the tires at the blip of the throttle and still have the ability to cruise on trips that makes the car really fun to drive!
I've tried dozens of engine combos , and while every choice is a compromise in some area, you can build a very nice engine if you concentrate on massive mid rpm torque, and a power curve that allows you to produce that power in the 3000rpm-6400rpm power band.
Id suggest you call crower and crane and talk to their tech guys, but youll be looking in the 232-245 degree intake duration @ .050 lift range in a hydraulic roller cam in an engine built to do what your looking to do, in most cases, I,d suggest the CRANE OR CROWER CAMS LINKED TO BELOW, as a good match to the application suggested...yes the cam suggested by crower , the #00426 is a solid roller cam, and it will without doubt produce better peak hp, but it will also be noticeably less street drive friendly,(especially if matched to an automatic transmission without a high stall converter, that will be mandatory to allow a cam with that much duration to function efficiently) so you'll need to decide what route to take and what your willing to compromise. keep in mind the cylinder heads, intake, manifold design, headers,displacement, compression ratio ETC. all effect the results, and you'll want to make some educated choices, but getting a selection of parts that will produce a wide power band, and rock solid durability, will be one key element to a good combo.

this info might be useful
http://www.brodix.com/heads/ikdyno.php

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=182&p=4788#p4788

http://www.brodix.com/heads/ik210dyno.php

http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.p ... il&p=24191
386-310-4875
( crane 119691)
crane119691.jpg


I'VE used this CROWER CAMS 00471 HYDRAULIC ROLLER ,SEVERAL TIMES IN PREVIOUS BUILDS WITH GOOD RESULTS
http://www.crower.com/chevy-262-400-ser ... ircle.html
Phone 619.661.6477
( crower 00471s)
crower00471.jpg

Ive built at least 7, 383-and-406 SBC based engine builds now, in the last 10-12 years with darn near the exact same combo, of crower roller cam,similar brodix heads,similar compression,roller rockers and while the engines only differed in factors like the headers , ignitions,or intake manifold used I can,t remember any of them having any issues as long as premium octane fuel was used and all produced decent power in the rpm band your cars going to operate in,and they all worked in reasonably light cars,(under 3200lbs) to produce decent performance , some were automatics, most used a 3200 rpm stall converter and 3.73:1-to-3.90:1 rear gears and similar tire heights, you can drop the dynamic compression by re-indexing the cam to 2-4 degrees retarded from split over lap and youll generally pick up 200-300 rpm of useable power on the upper rpm range and loose a bit of off idle torque

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=10553&p=44949&hilit=retard+bushing#p44949
this is how as an engine builder you gain experience, in that you see the result of each change you make and look at how each components being selected or modified effects those results, and in most cases use that accumulated experience looking at those results to further refine ind improve the combo further, and yes once you find an exceptionally effective combo if your smart you take notes and record what worked best so in the future you can use that info
having a REV-KIT that retains the lifters in their bores, to maintain oil pressure, even if the rocker comes loose or push rods breaks is a good idea
revkit1.jpg
Click to expand...
Time for rev kit like grumpy suggested back on page one a missed gear with hydraulic roller is enough to float and cause damage. Read allot today on rev kits your application would benefit mine also.
 
Strictly Attitude said:
Time for rev kit like grumpy suggested back on page one a missed gear with hydraulic roller is enough to float and cause damage. Read allot today on rev kits your application would benefit mine also.
Click to expand...
Its Just a Hydraulic Roller Cam John.
Not enough Duration to turn or pull the car under load 7000-8500 rpms.
 
We still do not know what went Wrong Rick.
If your sure the engine did not over rev then it comes down to one single area.

The MSD Ignition.
I am the only one here with a SUN distributor machine.
And I have a Vintage working Snap On Counsler Ignition Oscilloscope.
I would like to have your MSD Ignition, Coil, Cap & Wires.
Spin test it myself.
For 12-24 hours non stop.

You pay for shipping charges both ways.
Money you want to give put it towards Donations here for Grump.

Make a Video for you too for here.

The Unknown will Most Likely happen again.

I do believe its in the ignition system.
I have to prove it with my equipment.

I spin test my Mags for 12-24 hours.
If it passes good to go.

I have a spark gap rack too.
 
There is a False Trigger taking place in the MSD ignition or the Analog To Digital Converter or the OP AMP & Hexi Decimal Counter Circuits are going Nuts in the Module at times Rick.
I know Electronics also.
I have an AAS In Electonics Technolgy 1990.

Did You know that modern Electronics are not reliable in a Nuclear Power Plant or in Outer space Orbit ?
The Gamma, Alpha, & Beta Rays puts Holes literally right through the silicon Wafer Chips.
The Sheet quit working.
 
We Won WW2 not only because of the A-Bomb & We Had Albert Einstein....

WE ALSO HAD THE SCHINTILLA VERTEX MAGNETO.
IT WAS USED ON EVERY SINGLE USA & ALLIED FORCE FIGHTER PLANE, BOMBER, GASOLINE SHERMAN TANK,
GASOLINE GENERATOR.
EVEN THE PONY MOTOR TO START THE HUGE V12 & V16.

The Japs Had Crap.
So Did Nazi Hitler Germany.
(equivalent to MSD I think).

BR
 
Hydraulic rollers seem to have float issues a little over 6000 rpm from what I have read. You know me done allot of studying on this subject as I almost went this route. But seem what happens is the lifters (Non hi-rev) tend to start to collapse around this rpm 6000+ and the heavy weight of the hydraulic roller tends to float from that extra weight being thrown around. Like I said just what I have gathered. When I was talking to different cam manufactures about recommendations also the time I was told by a bunch of them I had reached my ceiling on my head flow. This was an issue the lifters to run a hydraulic roller to 6500 I was recommended to buy were these http://www.johncalliesinc.com/product.php?ProductNo=5044 . Seems Callies has bought out Morel now. There web page sucks compared to the older Morel one. But the set was around $800. I know rick has top end lifters in that engine already but not sure they are the high rpm ones. I know morel was supplying allot of big name cam manufactures with there lifters I do not remember if Crower was one of them. Plus Rick was a little light on the valve spring pressure. Either way all issue found and solved minor setback.
 
Strictly Attitude said:
Hydraulic rollers seem to have float issues a little over 6000 rpm from what I have read. You know me done allot of studying on this subject as I almost went this route. But seem what happens is the lifters (Non hi-rev) tend to start to collapse around this rpm 6000+ and the heavy weight of the hydraulic roller tends to float from that extra weight being thrown around. Like I said just what I have gathered. When I was talking to different cam manufactures about recommendations also the time I was told by a bunch of them I had reached my ceiling on my head flow. This was an issue the lifters to run a hydraulic roller to 6500 I was recommended to buy were these http://www.johncalliesinc.com/product.php?ProductNo=5044 . Seems Callies has bought out Morel now. There web page sucks compared to the older Morel one. But the set was around $800. I know rick has top end lifters in that engine already but not sure they are the high rpm ones. I know morel was supplying allot of big name cam manufactures with there lifters I do not remember if Crower was one of them. Plus Rick was a little light on the valve spring pressure. Either way all issue found and solved minor setback.
Click to expand...
Maybe John.
Bruce Crower & Ron Iskenderien Both had Spin Tron Stroboptic Machines back in the 1960's before anyone else did.
 
Maniacmechanic1 said:
If your sure the engine did not over rev then it comes down to one single area.
Click to expand...

I sure don't remember it reving high enough to float the valves recently. I do remember early on,
that I did see 6500 rpm, but that was years ago. Looks like I must be wrong somewhere, it just
don't figure without accepting that the valves floated.

On the other hand the machinist thought the valves had floated when I told him about the retainer
that came out. Also I just got a call from Crower and he said it looked the the valve had floated
on #7 and the retainer had a witness mark on it.

They are going to do a flow test on the other 7 sets of lifters and sell me a new set at a reduced
price of $88.

FP09_LifterRetainingRingDamaged_00293.jpg
.
 
Strictly Attitude said:
I know morel was supplying allot of big name cam manufactures with there lifters I do not remember if Crower was one of them. Plus Rick was a little light on the valve spring pressure. Either way all issue found and solved minor setback.
Click to expand...
If you check the suppliers list on the Callies website, there are several cam companies that
supply them. Lunati and Howards for two of them, Crower is not on the list.

I'm not going to spend $800 to turn the engine over 6500 rpm, the cam is not useful above
that anyway. With the higher spring pressures and keeping the rpm at 6200 or under, I
should be fine. I do plan on adding a girdle to the valve train.
 
Its entirely possible to experience valve float if unusual Harmonics are or were taking place.
If the Ignition system is false triggering firing at the wrong time.
It cumulative.
Then transmitted up to the valvetrain.
Valve springs Surge.
Then Valve float.
All without hitting designated engineered engine Redline.
 
MSD is famous for their Rev Limiters..it works by dropping every other cylinder.
Depending upon who you talk to its the best thing ever to some.
But its not really.
Sets up Terrible harmonics in the valvetrain.

Best Rev limiter is to use none.

Engineer the engine with less cam duration.
Or limit carburator cfm to less than 100 percent VE.

Or use high rpm with a hot cam only for emergency power.
 
mathd said:
He use the MSD 8360 distributor, wich you have to ground the grey wire(at 1/2 desired rev limit) to set the rev limiter. But for some reason its not working it wont let him set the rev limit. probably because that distributor is a piece of chinese crap and went south.
Click to expand...

Just A Reminder Rick.
 
Why do you have to call my distributor JUNK several times now ??? Once is OK, but
several times now.

I know you are using a quote, but that doesn't matter to me, you are the one that
keeps bringing it up. I don't keep repeating that Pontiac's are junk, would it be OK
if I did that???
 
There is not a Single Hotrodder or Racer Alive that has not experienced an engine failure of some sort.
We all have our Pride.
Just Sux when it happens Rick.
Grumpy Personal hand picked us all from other forums.
He found me in the Corvette world.
We are all the Best of the Best online.
 
.
I've been cleaning the pistons to prepare for assembly. The photo below is something I did
trying and help to avoid more clean up. The carbon wants to fall into the water jackets or
the threaded head bolt holes.

FP10_PrepareToCleanPiston.jpg

The best way I've found to clean the piston tops is to use a scraper with a razor's edge. It does want
to dig in when you get the attach angle to high. Using a little finesse you can skim the top and have
a pretty clean top. Then use some Red scotchbrite to finish the job.

FP10_CleaningPistonScraper_00308.jpg


I'm open to suggestions for cleaning the cylinders. It's obviously that all one can do is push the carbon
down into the gap around the the piston.

I've thought that squirting some high viscous fluid around the perimeter of the piston, then turn the crank
so that the piston moves down. This should leave the crude on the cylinder wall so I can wipe it off. I don't
think there is anyway to wash it out, that won't force it past the pistons rings into the crankcase.

I'm looking for suggestions for cleaning above the piston and top ring.

FP10_CleanCylindersOfCarbon.jpg
.
.
 
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