TBucket Engine Project (Dart SHP)

Indycars said:
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I've been cleaning the pistons to prepare for assembly. The photo below is something I did
trying and help to avoid more clean up. The carbon wants to fall into the water jackets or
the threaded head bolt holes.

View attachment 9458

The best way I've found to clean the piston tops is to use a scraper with a razor's edge. It does want
to dig in when you get the attach angle to high. Using a little finesse you can skim the top and have
a pretty clean top. Then use some Red scotchbrite to finish the job.

View attachment 9457


I'm open to suggestions for cleaning the cylinders. It's obviously that all one can do is push the carbon
down into the gap around the the piston.

I've thought that squirting some high viscous fluid around the perimeter of the piston, then turn the crank
so that the piston moves down. This should leave the crude on the cylinder wall so I can wipe it off. I don't
think there is anyway to wash it out, that won't force it past the pistons rings into the crankcase.

I'm looking for suggestions for cleaning above the piston and top ring.

View attachment 9456
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Click to expand...
Use a Shop Vacuum cleaner Rick with a Nozzle attachment.
Suck the carbon crud up best as you can.
Then wipe down the cylinders with Dextron III ATF.
Rotate the engine around by hand and stop every so often & wipe up the residual carbon left on the cylinder walls.
Then put 10w30 motor oil on a rag.
Squeeze the excess out. Then wipe down the cylinders to apply 10w30 Oil.
Rotate the crank again to get all 8 cylinders well oiled up.
 
Maniacmechanic1 said:
Use a Shop Vacuum cleaner Rick with a Nozzle attachment.
Suck the carbon crud up best as you can.
Click to expand...
Will do, but I will have to wait until the wife is gone. I do have an old Kirby in the garage if the
nozzle will fit from the other vacuum cleaner.

Grumpy said:
nice pictures of the cleaning process
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Strictly Attitude said:
Looking good Rick ou gonna polish the top of the pistons?
Click to expand...
No, not while they are in the block. Might polish the chambers again thou.
 
Indycars said:
Why do you have to call my distributor JUNK several times now ??? Once is OK, but
several times now.

I know you are using a quote, but that doesn't matter to me, you are the one that
keeps bringing it up. I don't keep repeating that Pontiac's are junk, would it be OK
if I did that???
Click to expand...

It's because MSD, like many other "American" companies, their products are now actually made overseas and they lead you to believe otherwise.
They get away with it by having their headquarters located in the US. Remember how I got screwed by those "guaranteed MADE IN USA" Delphi lifters?
 
Loves302Chevy said:
It's because MSD, like many other "American" companies, their products are now actually made overseas and they lead you to believe otherwise.
They get away with it by having their headquarters located in the US. Remember how I got screwed by those "guaranteed MADE IN USA" Delphi lifters?
Click to expand...
Last time i changed the injector on my 6.5 diesel, i go to the local store, order BOSCH injector, 3 of them were german bosch and very nice but the 5 others i think were chinese injector(900$ for the set of 8).
Maby its because they moved from Germany to Italy(Italy are good quality/finish usually), but they really looked like chinese and VERY badly made(bent return nozzle/bad machining, ugly finish, you will never get that from Bosch), i returned them.(it was not the quality i expected from BOSCH)
I went to a diesel shop, and got some brand new delphi nozzle(that was 6 years ago) installed into my old German Bosch injectors and re-adjusted the pop-pressure.

It gets hard to buy quality and well engineered parts nowaday. Thats why am trying to make/build everything myself when that is possible.
 
I'm very close with my heads, manifold and radiator out of the car, to getting at the camshaft and changing it's timing, if I retard the timing this would help with the possible detonation issue by reducing the Dynamic Compression Ratio. I would have to pull the balancer I just put on, water pump and timing cover. Remove the cam gear and drill for a Crower bushing that I bought 7 years ago with the camshaft. I was actually able to find them in under one minutes..... Who said I was getting old ??? :(

So how far should I retard it ..... 2° or 4°??? Check the graphic below.
Engine #1 is the present configuration.

DCR_ChangeMaybe.jpg

I should update the calcs with the new Excel spreadsheet that includes cranking pressures.

.
 
The compression is already low enough to me, are you tring to increase the intake valve to piston clearance?
i run 8.7:1 static and 11.5-12:1 dynamic/boost compression on 91 oct pump hehe(it do need a rich tune tho) :p

Honestly for a NA SBC anything under 12:1 static and 10.5:1 dynamic is nothing to get worried about.
 
If you have a dyno, youll see the results, of retard the timing 4 degrees you'll like the minimal,
200 rpm upward shift in the torque curve,
it will have a minimal increase in peak power and slightly reduce off idle wheel spin potential
and yes it will marginally reduce the tendency to detonation with marginal octane fuel

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectly-and-get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...d-high-spring-pressures-don-t-work-well.1489/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-mechanics-of-adv-ret-a-camshaft.4532/
 
Grumpy said:
If you have a dyno, youll see the results, of retard the timing 4 degrees you'll like the minimal,
200 rpm upward shift in the torque curve,
it will have a minimal increase in peak power and slightly reduce off idle wheel spin potential
and yes it will marginally reduce the tendency to detonation with marginal octane fuel


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ectly-and-get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...d-high-spring-pressures-don-t-work-well.1489/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-mechanics-of-adv-ret-a-camshaft.4532/
Click to expand...
while it will reduce detonation raising the powerband won't help with valve float.
Its just gonna make it lazy of the line.
 
Setting an ignition rev limiter on the cars ignition, set at at lets say 6100 rpm ,
or simply adjusting the auto trans so its shifting the trans at lets say a consistent 6000 rpm,
should avoid the valve float issues
you should have more than adequate torque to spare,
and you can always return or re-degree the cam back to its current location,
if you feel it was not giving you the intended result at very low cost,
you won,t feel a huge change.
 
mathd said:
The compression is already low enough to me, are you trying to increase the intake valve to piston clearance?
Click to expand...
No, I had plenty, except when the valve don't behave themselves.

mathd said:
i run 8.7:1 static and 11.5-12:1 dynamic/boost compression on 91 oct pump hehe(it do need a rich tune tho) :p

Honestly for a NA SBC anything under 12:1 static and 10.5:1 dynamic is nothing to get worried about.
Click to expand...
That's much higher than I've read. I am trying to get good mileage when I take a trip of 1000 miles
or so. I have to take a backup car with tools and clothes and .....
 
well from my perspective its a minor low cost and very easily done modification or change, so you have nothing too lose but a bit of time and effort and even if it does or does not improve things its something you can try very easily and cheaply to see if its improving the way your engine runs and its very easily reversed, that being stated I don,t see your looking at investing much time or effort in doing and testing to see the result
would I do it ..? Well, Ive done it dozens of times, to fine tune a combo,
if nothing else youll gain a great deal of valuable experience, so yes , Hell yes Id suggest you try it.
you've have nothing too loose and a great deal of experience and potentially improved engine performance, certainly nothing too lose!

I can,t believe I could type all, that with one finger that fast!
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-degreeing.9010/#post-35474
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-cam-and-shifting-the-lca.10553/#post-66602

pencilbal.jpg

CCA-4760.jpg

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4760

Damper tool (yes the damper needs to come off and the timing chain and upper gear too look at the end of the cam
pro-66514_w.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4531-Harmonic-Balancer-Installer/dp/B000F5LIW4/?tag=viglink22466-20
camposition.jpg

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4790/overview/
get the smaller 9" version for use in the car , cam degree checking
the 18" versions for checking on the engine stand
the knurled ring, on the damper crank turn tool, below, comes off the damper turn socket so the degree wheel slides on, then its replaced

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-62191/overview/
a crank snout, turning socket,
pro-67491_w.jpg


scan0001a.gif

http://www.totalengineairflow.com/tools
MOR-62191a.jpg

if your wondering how to turn a crank over to do test and diagnosing and cam installs you will benefit from the proper tools
IF you remove the spark plugs and take the car out of gear its fairly safe to turn the engine over manually,
using a breaker bar on the cranks damper retainer bolt,the problem is 99.9% of us are LAZY,
and just try it as the engine sits and eventually we strip the crank bolt or the crank snout threads
If the damper been removed the crank snout socket thats designed for your crank to turn the crank.
and hold the degree wheel while degreeing in the cam will be the route to take
shop carefully and ask questions the sockets and tools don,t fit universally, you'll need an assortment of several OF EACH TYPE ONCE YOU GET INTO ENGINE BUILDING SERIOUSLY
the crank socket like this that can turn the crank safely and firmly and accuratly mount a degree wheel is prefered
degreewheeladapter.jpg

there are also crank turning nuts that fit individual crank sizes
most of us are too lazy to remove the damper/balancers
SUM-901064_IT_ml.jpg

there are over size extra strength damper bolts for sale that are less likely to strip
POW-POW320000.jpg

they sell an engine damper bolt on tool that fits some dampers that allows you to use a 1/2" braker bar rather easily
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66782?seid=srese1&gclid=CNqD0YXA48gCFUYYHwodBJ4DVA
66782.jpg
 
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Grumpy said:
I can,t believe I could type all, that with one finger that fast!
Click to expand...
Yea, that's fast for one finger. I had my response already, then you beat me to it again. You wouldn't believe what my daughter
and husband can do on a phone with TWO FINGERS.

Grumpy said:
Setting an ignition rev limiter on the cars ignition, set at at lets say 6100 rpm ,
or simply adjusting the auto trans so its shifting the trans at lets say a consistent 6000 rpm,
should avoid the valve float issues you should have more than adequate torque to spare,
Click to expand...
Well I certainly don't push it like I did in the beginning, but I might get a very wild hair and want to
participate in the Small Town Weekend races. Therefore I better plan on turning up again at some point.
The MSD distributor is suppose to have a RPM limiter, but so far it's not worked. Since I replaced the
magnetic pickup, I should try programming it again.

Grumpy said:
you should have more than adequate torque to spare, and
you can always return or re-degree the cam back to its current location,
Click to expand...
If there is not a very good possibility that moving from a DCR of 8.27 to 7.98 would help, then I would rather
spend my time upgrading other things . There has been no signs of detonation on the pistons and combustion
chamber, so far.

But on the other hand, I do have plenty of vacation to take.

I would like to build a "Det Can" to confirm the detonation problem and I have a very good feeling that
Mathieu would help me.

Stay tuned, the next few days should tell the story as I think about all the comments.

Thanks for the input everyone !!!
 
Efi or come up with two tunes easy to change out. Pushing lean for economy or Rich for performance. I plan on investing in a 5 gallon pail of octane boost $300 good for 4 octane points at 20 gallons for 20 fillups so less then a dollar a gallon for that octane.
 
Your still Trusting the MSD RTR Distributor I see Rick.
You might as well climb a Bridge & Get on the Top arch Beam.
Close Your Eyes and run across the entire bridge Beam topside in the dark.
 
I never seen Valve Float Witness Marks on the Valve stem tips.
They Look like a Starburst pattern from the Roller Rocker tips.
The Valves rotate and oscillate random .
 
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