Thanks for the links you posted grumpy!!

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member

Thanks for the links you posted grumpy.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tbucket-engine-project-dart-shp.3814/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/matching-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-55314



I know you are good at what you do. I'm trying to get through the links and retain as much information as possible. I'm one of those people that has the attention span of a gold fish. I try to learn and do as much as possible on my own and don't have any local help. I try to have a project for my sanity and balance it on a budget and fit it in on what little time I have between work and family. Sometimes the lack of time can complicate simplest of tasks when it can take a month or more to get something done that if I could have the time I could do in one long day. But anyway thanks again for your guidance I appreciate it.


I well remember how difficult it was when I was 16-22 years old or so, years old, and finding valid info was very hard,most of the better engine shops and the successful racers were not about to let you in on what they knew.
most machine shops were basically run like a huge SCAM,
and they made a point of taking you for every dollar they could , and most of them did really crappy quality work, or didn,t have a clue how do things correctly
Luckily I had several mentors, without a knowledgeable mentor, willing to point out what was wrong and what you needed and it would have made thing far more difficult
(remember there was no internet back then)
so I'm doing everything I can to make it far easier on the newer guys PROVIDED of course that they will take the time and effort to read links and sub links.
Ill try hard to help where I can! (because no one deserves too be forced into wasting all the time, money and effort I was forced too to learn what works and what won,t!)
 
Last edited:
I really appreciate your help. Here is some info I am not posting. I decided to do a little experiment and I think it bit me censored. My 406 was built for my circle track car by a shop with a good reputation. It was built very conservatively to run a 500 cfm 2 barrel with a very small restrictor plate and crap exhaust manifolds. Here's where I went stupid. I decided to go against the grain and try the biggest hydraulic flat tappet comp cams big mutha thumper cam. I knew it was going to run like crap but I had to try for some ridiculous reason.

I was out in my garage playing with it today and I got it to run the best I think it will run with my limited knowledge of tuning. After triple checking my valve adjustment, timing marks and tuning with a timing light and vacuum gauge. I managed to get it to idle decent on 22* of initial timing and make 11 inches of vacuum. I think with an adjustable vacuum advance that is more sensitive to low vacuum I could probably get it to run better. Since it doesn't make enough vacuum to even get my stock vac advance to work.

My plan as of now is to either buy a new set of lifters and reinstall my old cam or buy a new cam and lifter set that is better suited for what I want to do.

From what I am reading I haven't read anything good about my current thumper cam and I am calling the stupid experiment a complete failure. The old cam is an unknown with a lift of about .440 ish lift. No marks on the cam to identify it but it worked a lot better and made 22 inches of vacuum at idle and pulled good up to around 5500 rpm with tall gears.

Sorry for the long story but I felt like it was time to come clean since you are very knowledgeable and willing to offer good advice.

Thanks


I think you might not believe what I,m going to say here,
but I think easily 75% of the guys that get rather seriously involved in this hobby, make very similar and less than ideal choices, in the first few cams they select!
(I know I sure made some poor choices when I was in my late teens )
but I tend to learn from my mistakes, so I quickly learned that my mentors had REASONS for suggesting I not make several choices,
I rather quickly learned to have long and rather detailed discussions, and too ask detailed and pointed questions about WHY they were suggesting certain things,
and WHY they tended to AVOID use of some components,
and I eventually learned that probably 90% of the magazine articles I read were either designed to SELL some parts,
or they FAILED to mention the EXPENSIVE MACHINE WORK or OTHER MANDATORY PARTS required,
to get the part they were hawking and promoting for the guys buying advertising in the magazine.
post a list of the parts your currently using in the engine and drive train and gearing and any other factors you can think to include, And lets discuss your choices and whats likely to work and WHY!
 
Yeah that's me. On the screw up scale of 1-10 I definitely rate myself a 10. The engine is a 406 with a scat rotating assembly and flat top pistons. Heads are junk hecho en Mexico that are supposed to be similar to the 882 casting heads. They have 1.94-1.50 valves. The valves have been back cut, and the heads have been cleaned up by the builder. It was built 10+ years ago and I ran it 3 times in my circle track car. It's now currently in my 72 Chevy LUV with a Th-350 and rear gears are 3.25. With me in the truck it weighs in around 2900 lbs. The truck is the way I got it minus the 283 and the old rams horn manifolds. I have Hooker super comp headers ( only header available for the v8 LUV engine swap) with dual 3 inch pipes about 2 feet long into dual flow master 40 series mufflers that dump between the cab and bed. Everything thing is on the table to change as time and money allows.
 
Last edited:
the lighter that average total truck weight, is certainly to your advantage.
the th350 is not a bad choice but Id at least consider upgrading to a 200r4 with over drive as its, a fairly easy swap.
you failed to post the tire diameter or height, and that helps calculate the rpm/power band.
I don,t know the combustion chamber size so calculating compressions a guess?
 
Grumpy likes Crane Cams.
They are Very Good.
I like Iskenderien Cams and what I prefer and use.
Crower is excellent also And I use thier Valvetrain parts & connecting rods.
 
you stated your heads are clones of chevy 882#
Chevrolet Production Iron 882 Head 151/205

h882.jpg


CALCULATORS TO PLAY WITH
http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm

if we assume they have similar characteristics and measurements
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/dynamic-vs-static-compression.727/

static compression near 9.6:1

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/semi-fool-proof-cam-sellection.82/


the very mention of the fact that theres MATH formulas available to actually calculate the correct matched components has never once been mentioned, and when it is I get that deer in the head lights stare or Im ignored as an OBVIOUS JERK who is just out to piss on their pizza , as they have read through several magazine articles so they know exactly whats needed!
selecting the CORRECT MATCHING CYLINDER HEADS is not a randomly made choice if your doing it correctly, its a process of matching the needs of the engines requirements under known or at least expected conditions.
yes its a KNOWN process with well understood MATH and REQUIRED testing, if your not following a know recipe exactly.


mention the fact theres actual tests for ideal fuel /air ratio, exhaust back pressure in the exhaust system,and intake plenum vacuum , fuel distribution, bearing surface speeds, rpm limitations , and ignition timing , valve float, air flow rates in the intake ports , port stall and they look at you like you are 9 feet tall and just stepped of a flying saucer

COMMON SBC INTAKE PORTS
felpro # 1204=Port Size: 1.23" x 1.99"=2.448 sq inches

felpro # 1205=Port Size: 1.28" x 2.09"=2.67 sq inches

felpro # 1206=Port Size: 1.34" x 2.21"=2.96 sq inches

felpro # 1207=Port Size: 1.38" x 2.28"=3.146 sq inches

felpro # 1209=Port Size: 1.38" x 2.38"=3.28 sq inches

felpro # 1255 VORTEC=Port Size: 1.08" x 2.16"-2.33 sq inches

felpro # 1263=Port Size: 1.31" x 2.02"=2.65 sq inches

felpro # 1266=Port Size: 1.34" x 2.21"=2.96 sq inches

felpro # 1284 LT1=Port Size: 1.25 x 2.04''=2.55 sq inches

felpro # 1289 FASTBURN=Port Size: 1.30" x 2.31" 3.00 sq inches

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calccsa.htm

you may be amazed to find a great deal of research and testing has been done and theres actually proven facts rather than random guess work to use in planing a well built engine combo

READ THROUGH THIS LINK
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/


http://forum.grumpysperformance.com...=8460&p=32923&hilit=curtain+flow+angle#p32923

http://www.wallaceracing.com/max-rpm2.php

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html
http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...block-cylinder-wall-thickness.976/#post-22976
http://www.bgsoflex.com/bestheader.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/

A VERY USEFUL set of CALCULATORs
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calccsa.htm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcplv.htm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcfps.htm

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcacsa.htm

reading a few links and sub links is well worth the time and effort

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-calculators-and-basic-math.10705/#post-46582

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/port-speeds-and-area.333/

rtyu1.jpg

rtyu2.jpg


why is it that darn near everyone just reads a few magazine articles and assumes that when they show remarkable gains from a cam swap that they don,t mentally step back and ask what to me is an obvious question, "WHAT DID YOU DO THAT YOU FAILED TO MENTION?" like new valve springs ,new rockers, larger injectors porting etc. look the fact is that most stock valve trains are not designed to run at over 6000rpm, and most cars have injectors sized for the original power level, and most cars have automatic transmissions and rear gear ratios , and compression ratios more designed to lower emissions and increase mileage than to maximize peak power, so swapping a new more aggressive cam MANDATES other changes, like long tube low restriction headers and a low restriction exhaust behind the headers, to allow it to function to its full potential, and additions like an additional trans fluid cooler to math the higher heat produced by a higher stall speed torque converter and a different rear gear ratio, and better valve springs, higher cost roller rockers and porting the heads and intake is conveniently ignored,and that the original stock parts won,t work well with the new performance cam, without the parts they forgot to mention when that miracle cam jumped the peak power 80 plus hp is simply ignored, as posting that info might reduce sales of the cam the articles pushing for sale are not compatible with a noticeably longer duration cam

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...dyno-test-results-on-an-ls3.10416/#post-43247

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ine-info-from-diferent-sites.5611/#post-17135

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/chevy-ls1-related-info.3918/#post-10424

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/418-cid-ls3-build.2033/#post-5418

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/calculate-fuel-injector-size.1200/#post-4041

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-octane-for-compression-ratio.2718/#post-7057

spending a few days or even weeks doing careful research well before you start writing checks or pulling out a credit card, can save you thousands of dollars and months of work, understanding the difference in component quality ,correct clearances and how and why each component is supposed to perform and the potential stress its under helps you make far more intellegent choices and tends to allow you to get an engine built that far exceeds the quality and performance of the average crate engine assembly


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/adjusting-valves.196/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rocker-push-rod-wear-issues.9815/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...u-buy-bare-or-assembled-heads.534/#post-41293

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sellecting-cylinder-heads.796/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-seat-angles-and-air-flow.8460/


A SUGGESTION

looking over the specs Id throw this cam

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-10005

these lifters

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rhl-8178

in the engine with these rockers

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/scc-scp1028

 
Last edited:
Grumpy thank you for your advice. I will double check my tire size but if I'm not mistaken it is 24.85 inches tall. I'm probably going to start pulling the engine out tonight or tomorrow.

Just out of curiosity what is the general opinion about comp cams? I have heard a lot of bad things about them lately. Not just the thumper series the company in general. I hear a lot of people complain about them getting eaten up on break in. I have used several in the past and always follow their break in directions and never had a problem personally.
 
I've personally had less than impressive track record or reliable results from Comp CAMs ,
and exceptionally inconsistent results from questions their tech team answered. As a result personally I've avoided using them.(not because the products are defective, but because the tech support doesn,t seem to know what they are talking about in my experience)
theres lots of other cam suppliers available
I,ve had consistently good results from these suppliers , high lighted in green,
and would recommend them with no reservations,
based on my experience, and have seen ,
good results with the others listed, or had limited but good results


ERSON
http://www.pbm-erson.com/store.php?catId=327
http://usaperform.com/-c-154_206.html

CROWER'
http://www.crower.com/

HERBERT
http://www.dougherbert.com/

LUNATI
http://www.lunatipower.com/

CRANE CAMS
(I did a ton of business with the old crane cams, Ive not yet built a firm background with the new company but so far they seem competent)
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=technicalhelp

HOWARD
http://www.howardscams.com/howards2015.pdf

related threads youll use during a engine build
KNOWLEGE AND RESEARCH IS A HUGE PART OF SUCCESS
a couple hours reading could save you a great deal of time and cash.


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bits-of-383-info.38/page-2#post-61958

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...c-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/#post-39781

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-after-a-cam-lobe-rod-or-bearings-fail.2919/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/why-build-a-383-vs-a-350.715/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ting-started-in-the-car-hobby.339/#post-60187

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...on-building-a-383-sbc-stroker.428/#post-57879

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/finding-a-machine-shop.321/#post-55314

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/crate-or-build.11257/#post-50889

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/#post-54682

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/383-information-overload.11137/#post-49864

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/precision-measuring-tools.1390/#post-52466

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51843

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/#post-51341

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-calculators-and-basic-math.10705/#post-46737

start by buying these books and watching the video
v
you really should get these books and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...5079777/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-1234339-0571324

1557882169.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...gy_img_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

0912656042.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...gy_img_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

0895861755.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._books_1/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

1884089208.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._books_3/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books
1557883572.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books
0760302030.01._PE_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


INVESTING THE TIME AND EFFORT IN PURCHASING AND READING A FEW BOOKS WILL BE VERY COST EFFECTIVE
bbcbl1.jpg

bbcbl2.jpg

bbcbl3.jpg

bbcbl4.jpg

bbcbl5.jpg

bbcbl6.jpg

bbcbl7.jpg

bbcbl8.jpg

bbcbl9.jpg

http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/en ... ine-block/
"

SMALL BLOCK REFERENCE BOOKS YOULL WANT
start by buying these books and watching the video

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html
chevystep.jpg


maxperf.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards...8&qid=1456194032&sr=8-5&keywords=DAVID+VIZARD
HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD
.
johnl.jpg

JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines
http://www.amazon.com/Lingenfelter-...=1456193940&sr=8-1&keywords=JOHN+LINGENFELTER

smokeyy.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Smokey-Yunick...2&sr=8-1&keywords=smokey+yunick+power+secrets


jenkinsrace.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Chevrolet-Rac...ords=The-Chevrolet-Racing-Engine-Bill-Jenkins
 
Last edited:
It's nice to hear a good reason behind an opinion. I guess the real reason I have always used comp cams is because I have their old comp cams computer dyno simulator that shows what maybe their biased opinion in a somewhat generic simulation by plugging in the details and its so simple my 6 year old could probably use it.
 
The Original Desktop Dynomotion 2000 Engine Simulator Software written by Ken Athey is based off of Iskenderien Camshaft Profiles.
 
I think I might actually have that put away somewhere. I will have to dig for it. Instead of pulling my motor today I decided it would be a good time to clean and rearrange garage. I'm starting over freash and organized.
 
I decided it would be a good time to clean and rearrange garage. I'm starting over fresh and organized.


I'm not 100% sure...
but I THINK thats TOTALLY against,
the TRADITION AND UN-written rules of both

HOT RODDING AND ENGINE BUILDING ETHICS
:rolleyes::D


can you imagine ?
the totally un-familiar feeling of knowing where all the parts, you bought,
sealants, gaskets, tools and components are,
and having the engine stand, fasteners,
lubricants,solvents ,and precision measuring tools,
all within easy reach?
why a seasoned and experienced hot rodder might pass out from pure confusion & euphoria

foldst.png

790.JPG


image_21264.jpg


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bare-minimum-tools.11026/#post-51823

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/storing-a-spare-engine.614/#post-46169

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-from-crane-to-engine-stand.11524/#post-53175

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/block-prep.125/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...all-tools-install-info.1479/page-2#post-57049

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-crane-and-engine-stand-mods-accesories.3724/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/parts-washers-cleaners.2886/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...k-after-a-cam-lobe-rod-or-bearings-fail.2919/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/big-block-chevy-info.710/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearing-clearances.2726/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...tion-of-crank-durring-short-blk-assembly.852/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-and-basic-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/
 
Last edited:
It's not like my garage is a disaster or anything. I usually keep it pretty clean and organized. I just came up with a plan to start over and move things that are needed the most to the easiest point of access. My biggest problem is that my wife parks her car in the garage as well as my truck. A two car garage with two cars, 8 foot long tool box, work bench and other tools makes it a little tight. Don't forget Christmas decorations. The wife doesn't know I threw a ton of that stuff away today.
 
you really should get these books and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal
yeah I know you think its wasting a couple hundred dollars for resource material but trust me its well spent money

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...5079777/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-1234339-0571324

1557882169.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...gy_img_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

0912656042.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...gy_img_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

0895861755.01._PE30_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._books_1/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books

1884089208.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._books_3/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books
1557883572.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_2/102-1234339-0571324?v=glance&s=books
0760302030.01._PE_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


INVESTING THE TIME AND EFFORT IN PURCHASING AND READING A FEW BOOKS WILL BE VERY COST EFFECTIVE
bbcbl1.jpg

bbcbl2.jpg

bbcbl3.jpg

bbcbl4.jpg

bbcbl5.jpg

bbcbl6.jpg

bbcbl7.jpg

bbcbl8.jpg

bbcbl9.jpg

http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/en ... ine-block/
"

SMALL BLOCK REFERENCE BOOKS YOULL WANT
start by buying these books and watching the video

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html
chevystep.jpg


maxperf.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards...8&qid=1456194032&sr=8-5&keywords=DAVID+VIZARD
HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD
.
johnl.jpg

JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines
http://www.amazon.com/Lingenfelter-...=1456193940&sr=8-1&keywords=JOHN+LINGENFELTER

smokeyy.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Smokey-Yunick...2&sr=8-1&keywords=smokey+yunick+power+secrets


jenkinsrace.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Chevrolet-Rac...ords=The-Chevrolet-Racing-Engine-Bill-Jenkins

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/tool-boxes-and-chests.10357/page-2#post-45230

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...eling-your-tool-chest-drawers.3283/#post-8681

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rod-bolt-mics-stretch-gauges.989/#post-51199

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/#post-54682
 
Last edited:
Back
Top