that back-up rifle choice

[grumpyvette]

I was recently asked by one of the guys at the range why I was sighting in three desperate rifles if I was going elk hunting,
well I generally bring a second rifle because if your 2300 miles from home , and out hunting and the UN-expected happens
(which you can 100% depend on!
IF YOU DON,T EXPECT PROBLEMS LET ME ASSURE YOU,
MURPHY'S OUT THERE!, things will, occasionally,fail, and with 3 or more guys on a out of state elk hunting trip for 10 days its nearly certain. )
that your primary rifle or scope, or a buddies will be damaged, during a hunt
Ive usually brought my 340 weatherby synthetic stock rifle, a SAKO 375 H&H carbine and my slide action 35 whelen , but we almost always bring a common,camp back-up rifle, that gets an amazing amount of use!
Its been my experience that most of the 25 caliber and larger rifles work, but having a 35-45 caliber throwing at least 200 grains of bullet at at least 2500 fps or 250 grains to at least 2300 fps does a very effective job at the under 250 yard ranges I'm used to hunting at much of the time
youll also occasionally find a situation where a guy may want to try elk hunting but his personally owned rifles are really not ideal, this is unlikely because your generally not going to invite guys on a 2 week out of state hunt , that are not going to want to do the research into a decent rifle and buy or borrow the correct rifle, but I have had it happen that one guy I hunted with for deer over several years only owned a 243 win and chose not to buy a new rifle until he was sure he liked elk hunting.
we tried to convince him that proper shot placement, and a premium bullet, over the fairly short ranges we hunt at would allow him to use the rifle he was familiar with, and if he just limited taking shots to reasonable angles and ranges that 243 win would work, but he wanted to try a bit more rifle in any case.
that year we brought a 45/70 marlin as the camp back-up rifle,
(btw yes he got an elk and bought a similar 45/70 marlin he still uses on hunts years later)
now most years theres 3-5 guys making the drive and we spend 10 days in the field, plus 2 days driving both ways, or 4 days in transit.
more than a few times at least one member of the group screwed up a rifle or scope by slipping or falling or dropping a rifle, so having a spare to fall back on thats dependable helps,
you need something that effectively hammers elk!, but you generally don,t want to leave a really expensive rifle locked in the trucks at camp in case the trucks get broken into, nor do you want some cheap in-effective rifle because YOU may very well be the person using it, so a compromise was decided among most of the regular members who long ago realized shots over 200 yard were very rare!
and while a marlin lever gun might not seem to be the best choice its easy to carry, accurate and damn effective.

I still use my 35 whelen 7600 pump action,and 450 marlin blr

for about 30 years, of the 45 years or so Ive hunted, our elk hunt group generally kept a marlin lever action 45/70 with a weaver 4x scope on it that was sighted dead on at 200 yards as the camp back-up elk rifle, standard load was a hard cast 350 grain bullet over a stiff load of 50 grains of IMR 4198 over a 215 federal primer . that rifle eventually was responsible for killing more elk than most of the hunter primary arms and resulting several guys buying similar marlin 45/70s over the years. and yes a hard cast 350 grain 45 caliber projectile launched at near 1800fps even out at 200 yards does amazingly effective damage to an elk if placed correctly.

now all the guys that swear you need a flat shooting 7mm or 300 mag may be a bit disappointed, but in over 40 years of hunting elk I can easily count all the elk shot at over 300 yards by ANYONE in out group on one hand!

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458-355-GC

cast from 95% WW alloy and 5% pure tin


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[grumpyvette]

For those of you who elk hunt and actually still do some walking; what is your go to setup? I'd like to know the make, model, caliber and optic you rely on and please tell me how many miles you cover a day on average.

If I back-pack into deep creek or grizzly creek drainage, several miles into the canyons I hunt, I generally take my 35 whelen 7600 slide action , but I'd point out that the rifle choice is more due to familiarity like an old friend, and any of several rifles I own would work just as well, both the 340 wby and my sako 375 H&H have made that trip several times as has my browning BLR in 358 win, its NOT the rifle its the skill you have using it!
I still use my 35 whelen 7600 pump action,and 450 marlin blr

I load a speer 250 grain over 53-54 grains of imr 4320, and a fed 215 primer, in my rem 7600 slide action,that load produces just under 2500 fps with those SPEER 250 grain bullets
\
the two most popular rifles in the hunt club I belong too are,
the Remington 7600 (30/06 and 35 whelen)
and the browning BLR (308 win and 358 win)
I do a great deal of the hand loading for members
I generally use fed 215 primers
all four calibers in both style guns with proper hand loads will usually produce consistent 3 shot groups under 1.5" at 100 yards off a good solid bench rest
powders vary , but WW748 IMR4064 and h380 and H414 are common
both the 35 calibers seem to prefer the speer 250 grain bullets

https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullets/358/358-250-hcsp-bullet

Ive had good accuracy with the 30 cals with the 165 grain

https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/rifle-bullets/hot-cor-rifle-bullets/308/308-165-sptz-bullet
its dependable and accurate up to at least 250 yards and Ive found its well suited to longer trips than the 340 wby that I generally use if I only intend to glass and stalk or the 375H&H sako carbine I use if I want to spend the day sneeking thru dark timber at a snails pace.
but I'd point out your area might not be as steep and wooded as where I hunt where ranges tend to be short but walking 4-5 miles along a canyon each day does tend to get results and the pack out is always a huge P.I.T.A.

I received a brief e-mail asking why I seem to be promoting the 450 marlin BLR
Im not promoting any caliber or action type, simply pointing out what I see rather frequently, used.

while earlier in the thread,and in other threads, Ive stated Ive used a SAKO 375 H&H carbine hunting thick timber hunting elk.

well thats a good observation
Ive used BOTH rifles and the 375 H&H sako manlicher carbine similar too these pictures

my late hunting partner vastly preferred the 358 win BLR
(mostly Id bet because the 358 win was available when he started hunting elk and the 450 marlin only came out after he passed on)
well Ive watched a great many guys hunt, the thicker timber slopes where ranges tend to be well under 100 yards and you certainly don,t want any game you shot running any distance,
heavy bullets in the 30 caliber and larger in the 180 grain or heavier range work rather well.
and you certainly are unlikely too, get your choice in distance or the games stance or choice of shot angle.
many prefer those larger bore Marlin and browning lever actions, as you can get a very rapid second shot.
two factors come to mind here
(1) few guys I know have ever needed a rapid second shot
(2) even fewer have developed the well practiced skill of rapidly working a bolt action while your in recoil,
from the first shot and not removing the rifle stock off your shoulder.
I find most guys are faster making a follow up shot or at least having that second cartridge re-chambered with a lever action,
and while that might seem to be an advantage, once you have developed the knack of using a bolt gun with out removing it from the shoulder,
while working the bolt, I feel the advantage is negligible if it exists... especially when I rarely see a second shot from either rifle is required.
like I stated, pick what YOUR familiar with and COMFORTABLE useing....your un-likely to make a bad choice.

 

[grumpyvette]

I've shot a couple elk in Grizzly Creek, Lot of work to getem out of there!!!

yeah! I remember one trip out when both my buddy and I had easily 80 lbs of meat and gear in back packs plus rifles and about 1/2 way out we were 90% exhausted and I turned to RON and said...how much did we PAY to do this, and are we having THAT much FUN YET, .....neither of us could stop laughing at the absurdity and we could hardly breath even before that! but you pretty much have very little competition down in that canyon for that reason, you have to be 1/2 nuts about hunting elk to do that year after year

 

[grumpyvette]

If you could just have a single hunting rifle, grumpy,
what would you personally grab to use on a moments notice if you were heading out the door on your next elk hunt?

Id regret having to make the choice that fast, but without a doubt Id do what I do most years and on most elk hunts and grab the primary elk rifle I ve used, my 18 year old synthetic stock stainless ,340 wby 26" heavy barrel, that I bought too use with my very similar older blue steel version of the same rig, loaded with 250 grain hornady bullets over a 215 fed primer and a stiff load oh h4831 add a 27" harris bi-pod a sling and my leopold 3x9x scope would be the rifle Id grab if limited to a single hunting rifle.
It may not be ideal but inside of 450 or so yards I can be rather more effective than the deer and elk would like to think about, if they think about things like that.
yeah! too heavy but darn effective and ill trade mobility and easy transport for the ability to make the first shot hit where I want it too.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_758/products_id/97089

youll have a damn hard time beating, the value for cost, on this laminated marine coat bolt action rifle in 375 ruger for under $500 for a good elk rifle, in fact I'm rather seriously tempted to buy one and I really don,t even need a new elk rifle, as I have two that are top quality and well proven.
but ,considering that most similar 375 ruger caliber rifles will cost 2-to 4 times that amount this is a darn bargain,
yes youll notice the recoil but it only takes one well placed shot to drop any elk and this will easily allow shots to at least 450 yards in skilled hands.
obviously selecting the perfect elk rifle is a personal choice , and like selecting a wife, each of us has a different set of characteristics we are looking for, but the basics remain the same, you'll want something that you feel comfortable with and something you'll be 100% sure can be dependable, and it certainly won,t hurt if it looks good, and handles well.
and similar to a wife, a great deal of how it functions and does its job is almost 100% dependent on how well you work with, maintain and take care of ,the selected choice you made, and understand the limitations your choice may place, on your options , working along with that choice.

https://www.loaddata.com/articles/pdf/loaddevelopment2lowres1.pdf

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/375-ruger/

http://www.realguns.com/loads/375Ruger.htm

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/358892/redding-2-die-set-375-ruger

https://www.midwayusa.com/375-ruger/br?cid=19468

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/9...-375-diameter-270-grain-spire-point-box-of-50

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/

 

[philly]

its always a compromise between bringing absolutely everything you could possibly ever need and being able to carry it all. finding some of the lighter weight versions of other things (back packs, space blankets, water containers, etc... allows you to have things that may be essential while not giving up too much on the heavy side. ( using heavy duty black trash bags to carry your meat instead of "bird bags" or "dry bags" is a lightweight convenient and cheap (although one time use only) way to solve that little issue of not getting blood all over everything. for example.

 

[Grumpy]

I got asked
"quote, it just hit me as a bit strange Ive read through a couple dozen hunting and rifle related threads,
and reading between the lines a bit, you show a tendency toward the 340wby and 375 H&H bolt actions as your primary hunting tools,
yet a noticeable tendency to grab a lever action or slide action as a second hunting rifle choice, doesn,t that get a bit confusing at times?"

Your certainly not the first person to point that out, nor do I find it even the slightest issue,
when hunting.
and yes taking the time and effort to, practice frequently too become very proficient with the weapons you choosing to use is mandatory
and yes even when I can,t go hunting I enjoy spending time at the range shooting.
now I could very easily see where that would be or at least very well could be an issue,
if a guy only spent a few hours before the season sighting in and checking his deer or elk rifles
and left them to gather dust in the safe or closet the rest of the year, basically unused.
but I hand load my own ammo and I try hard to spend at least one and if I,m lucky two days a month minimum, spending several hours at the local out door rifle ranges.
and sometimes a good deal more often, shooting my various firearms, at least a dozen shots or more,each, just to maintain muscle memory and familiarity with the rifles,
off a bench rest, then a dozen shots or so sitting or standing, with a big game caliber rifle,
and shooting a round of skeet with a semi auto, or pump shotgun, occasionally sure won,t hurt!
Id also point out that my bolt action rifles (especially the 340 wby)and to a lesser extent my 375 H&H
are more precise tools designed to at least in theory provide a bit of extra accuracy under field conditions,
and are used mostly from a sitting position with a bi-pod in the field where Id be set up to cover a large area and game will,
move into my line of fire , and Ill have time to set up (at least in theory)and even then shots over 300 yards are almost never seen.
now I practice shooting out to 500 yards when I get the chance and I have a trajectory chart laminated/taped to my rifle stock,
but for the last 45 years, I find hunting ranges quoted in magazines ,
far longer that I see under field conditions.
obviously, where you hunt and what you hunt dictates the methods that work best ,and thus the tools selected match the job.
and over time each person tends to adapt too or become proficient at some way of hunting they find successful.
while the lever and slide actions, I use, are generally used, mostly after the first few days, of the season when games learned to hold up,
in the more remote or steeper and more over grown areas, shots tend to be much closer,(under 150 yards in easily 80% plus cases.)
as your basically sneaking around looking for bedded or slowly traveling game in timber