"The 14 Car" Performance therapy project

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100 % Pontiac this Year Birdman.
I am going after the Hellcats.

The Entire Corvette World Failed Street Racing.
Never Even xxx tried and Lined them up next to the Hellcats.
 
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I've been working on the bird a lot. Haven't posted updates because I'm working on a bunch of different things concurrently. Subframe and engine/trans been in and out several times, front end sheet metal and bumper fitted and now in final primer, modified subframe connectors, fabricated additional braces for PTFB G braces, fabricated cowl reinforcement, prepped cage for paint, mocked up new sidepipes and fabricated mounts, fabricated mounts for the full under tray/diffuser, etc. etc. etc. When I get certain segments of the project done I'll post about each of the things.

Here's a sneak peek of some of the things I've been working on.

 
That's Awesome John-Birdman.
I actually found an early Bird being stripped apart if you need an early 2 nd gen Subframe but you have the 81 suframe sorted out.

I have learned that long threads on Corvette Forums are bad. Leaves to much open for others to attack you and cut you down they will.
Never again. Just post finished results.
Ok to do on your site.
I am and only I can see for now. Post live when I want to.

Stakes are High. All of Corvette world hates Pontiac .
Because we can and Will Win.
 
I had fun tonight looking on the Pontiac Forums Birdman.
Still a lot of Diehard Poncho guys like us out there.
Not nearly Hostile as the Corvette World is.
Many Faster than Hellcats. 100% Poncho Powered.
 
Oh ya there's a lot of die hard old school Pontiac guys Prices of birds has started going out of control at the auctions. I'm really surprised at how many are willing to cough up the bucks for all aluminum engines. Pontiac forums are pretty mellow.

I stopped going to Corvette forums a few years ago. Gotta say though I watched the Daytona 24 hour race streaming live on and off last night and this morning. Vettes were doing well in the GT class and the prototype Corvette is just plain cool. The C7 is growing on me, walked the row at the dealer the other day when I was there on a parts run.
 
I like the base C7 . Has potential .
Out of my price range affordability though current.

Supply of Pontiac parts seems to be drindling. But spring is coming.
I watch ebay daily.

Grumpy is no longer leading in the Vette world.
Strange stuff going on.

A couple of guys I talk to regular say my experience and expertise is missed.
 
I am laying low for now.
Going Hellcat Racing This Year.
Nothing else matters.

I may join the Mopar Forums.
Lots of ex Corvette owners there my bud Mopar Bob tells me that bought brand new Hellcats and ditched thier Vettes.
I may tell my story why I was banned from Digital Corvette for life for Saying Pontiac & Hellcats.
I looked this morning and DC is Dead.
Zero Racing action.
 
Sub frame and body modifications for extreme conditions (racing) G-brace install

G braces have been around since Herb Adams & his crew were racing 2nd gens back in the early 70's. The basic brace idea itself was/is a good concept which triangulates the front sub frame to the upper cowl. This reduces deflection of the sub frame and stiffens up the overall platform so suspension and steering components can do their job better.

The Pro-Touring F-Body Gen II adjustable G-braces shown here evolved from the simple early braces and are a great product. They're a very stout design with a nice adjustable feature that allows them to be easily installed on most 2nd gen F body's. The braces are actually much stronger than the cars they're being installed in and that is the focus of this post. By modifying the points where the forces transferred by the G-braces act on the cowl, upper control arm mounting bolt, upper control arm mount, and sub frame we can make the G braces function even better.

In my opinion G-braces should only be used on cars with solid body mounts as a minimum, and preferably have sub frame connectors also. Doing any of the modifications discussed in this post without solid body mounts is a waste of time and money (even if you think it looks cool).

So here's my list of areas that can use a bit of improvement and what I've done. I hope this helps for those who might want to copy what I've done or come up with better ideas. As with most things the evolution will continue.

1. Upper cowl where G-braces attach is three pieces of sheet metal spot welded together. The G brace mounts are almost centered on the large air openings on the top of the cowl which are the weakest areas. Also the drivers side G brace is in the area of the cowl recessed for the windshield wiper motor allowing more flex in that section of the spot welded ledge the brace is mounted to.

Improvement 1. A strip of 1/8" steel plate above and below ledge creating a sandwich and bolted through the pinch welded area. Stiffens the ledge and spreads the force from the brace over a much wider area. Creates a wider thickness for shear forces transferred through the bolts to act on by doubling (or rmore) the thickness of the ledge. Provides a strong section in the center of the cowl ledge where the top of the cowl is stiffer for the additional centered mount triangulation braces I made that do not come with G-braces. The additional braces also provide lateral support. I used bolts but the sandwich plates could be welded in place.

2. Stock upper control arm mount is made of 3/16" steel. It can flex and those of you who've examined them probably noticed that they've deformed over the years a bit around the forward UCA bolt hole from bumping parking blocks, tightening during alignment, or whatever. If your car's apart put a straight edge on the UCA shaft mounting face and you'll see what I'm talking about. The stock UCA bolts were splined for an interference fit. Often on the cars after many years the interference fit has been widened by movement and the splines don't engage tight any more.

Improvement 2. Weld a piece of 1/8" flat plate to the face of the UCA mount. Most of us with track cars are already running a bunch of shims on the front and rear UCA shaft bolts to get as much positive castor and negative camber as we can. The 1/8" plate eliminates one shim front/rear and eliminates one surface where things could slip/move.. The 1/8" welded plate increases the thickness of the mount to 5/16 which is a 66% increase and stiffens the mount. Additionally it gives a thicker more solid base for larger splined UCA shaft mounting studs/bolts.

3. The stock UCA shaft bolts are 1/2" with a small splined base. Their intended use was to clamp the UCA shaft to the mount and accept forces applied in compression and tension. They were not intended to receive shear forces trying to wiggle and tip the bolt. With G-braces the shear forces applied by the braces are at roughly 90 degrees to the bolt AND the force is not at the base where the splines are but away the thickness of the shims and control arm shaft so leverage is involved increasing the possibility of tipping or wiggling the bolt.

Improvement 3. ARP 1/2" wheel studs with a wide spline base to replace stock UCA shaft bolts. The wide base makes the bolt more stable and spreads force over a bigger area. The spline area is also deeper which combined with the additional thickness provided by the 1/8" plate welded to the mount.keeps the bolt more stable. The wheel studs are also longer allowing shims etc. to run a lot of negative camber while still easily double nutting the bolts with grade 8 nuts to prevent loosening. The ARP long studs are stronger and also allow space to utilize an additional support for the stud to transfer force to the frame horns ahead of the UCA mounts.

Additional improvement. Adjustable UCA bolt brace between the front UCA bolt/stud and the frame on roughly the same angle as the main tube of the G-brace.. This support transfers loads from the G-brace to the front frame horns reducing the load on the splined section of the UCA bolt by providing additional support on the other side of the G-brace to help prevent tipping or wiggling of the UCA bolt/stud. I feel this is the most beneficial modification and recommend it to anyone using any style of G braces that use the UCA mounting bolt as the lower attachment point.

Pic below is an overview showing everything mocked up but not yet fully adjusted and tightened. The sub frame will need to come out for paint after other modifications are done. The bolts and nuts are all serrated flange locking fasteners excluding the ARP studs & grade 8 nuts used for the UCA shaft mount. On the cowl, the top of the G-braces are fastened with 7/16" bolts and the other bolts (including the additional upper braces) are all 3/8". The lower supports for the UCA bolts are fastened to the frame with 1/2" serrated flange nuts/bolts.



Pic below shows the 1/8" thick plate welded to the UCA shaft mounting surface. Note the thickness where the splines of the stud will hold the bolt more securely.


Pic below shows how the additional upper supports are attached to the PTFB Gen II adjustable G-braces and the angle of the lower support that is attached to the UCA bolt and sub frame.



Pic below shows the difference between a stock mounting bolt for the UCA shaft and an ARP wheel stud used to replace them. You can see how the wider deeper spline section will support the bolt more rigidly.





Pic below is a close up of the drivers side lower support. The unused mount on the steering box has to be cut off to provide clearance for the mounting bolt through the frame. I used 1/2" mounting bolts so I'd have a wide surface area which need to be ground down a bit for steering box clearance. Everything's close but fits. Careful marking of where the frame mounting bolt hole needs to be is critical on the drivers side. Passenger side there's plenty of room.



Pic below shows all the pieces used for the upgrades described that do not come with a set of PTFB Gen II adjustable G-braces.
 
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you just can't help but be impressed with the attention to even smaller,
details that , were obviously taken,in the picture of the car's engine compartment,
and what care, and thought, that it shows that the guy building the car addressed,
in the picture if you have enough experience to realize what your looking at!
WHEN I SEE SOMEONE PUT THAT MUCH THOUGHT AND WORK INTO A CAR I ALWAYS THINK,
ITS ALWAYS A DARN SHAME THAT QUALITY COMPONENTS COST SO MUCH,BECAUSE IF YOUR WILLING TO WORK THAT HARD, ITS A DAMN SHAME YOU DON,T HAVE A SPONSOR WILLING TO PAY FOR THE NEXT LEVEL OF PARTS

In the past ,when I put that much effort into a racing front suspension , Ive generally swapped
to the stronger and more rigid and significantly lighter weight option.
yes its far more expensive and it takes away from the cars originality but it also allows a bit more adjustment

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmr-aa002h/overview/make/pontiac/model/firebird

bmr-aa002h_xl.jpg


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmr-fep004h/overview/
bmr-fep004h_xl.jpg



 
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Nice Birdman
You will have The Best Handling 1970 Firebird in The World.
Pull 1.5 Lateral G's.
I seen recent what those Aftermarket 2nd F-body Bolt in Subframes cost.
$15,000 Cash.
Ridiculously unaffordable.

When we wete dirt teack racing with a 1967 Chevelle & 1978-87 G-body Monye Carlos the Lower Stock Ball joint would last 2-5 laps.
Even MOOG Failed snapped in 2.
The Hot trick was to use Full Size Ford Lower Balljoints.
You Ream the Lower Spindle Hole put.
Speedway Motors sells the Special Tapered Reamer.
They Fail Drag Racing also.
Super High Wheel stands then slam back tp rhe Ground.

1970-71 Spindles on our 1970-1/2 cars are unique special I recall.
Later were drop forged Steel.
 
Grumpy said:
you just can't help but be impressed with the attention to even smaller,
Click to expand...
Grumpy said:
details that , were obviously taken,in the picture of the car's engine compartment,
and what care, and thought, that it shows that the guy building the car addressed,
in the picture if you have enough experience to realize what your looking at!
WHEN I SEE SOMEONE PUT THAT MUCH THOUGHT AND WORK INTO A CAR I ALWAYS THINK,
ITS ALWAYS A DARN SHAME THAT QUALITY COMPONENTS COST SO MUCH,BECAUSE IF YOUR WILLING TO WORK THAT HARD, ITS A DAMN SHAME YOU DON,T HAVE A SPONSOR WILLING TO PAY FOR THE NEXT LEVEL OF PARTS

In the past ,when I put that much effort into a racing front suspension , Ive generally swapped
to the stronger and more rigid and significantly lighter weight option.
yes its far more expensive and it takes away from the cars originality but it also allows a bit more adjustment{/quote]

Thanks Grumpy!

I've been planning on eventually swapping to some tubular control arms made by the same company that makes the G braces shown above. They have updated geometry that allow additional positive castor and negative camber. Not sure if they save any weight though. The tubular arms I've dealt with for handling are usually heavier than stock arms unlike the drag race oriented tubular stuff. I've got no extra money in the budget for them now and figured it's easy to swap them out later once the car is back on track. I need to spend the money on paint etc. now so the car can be reassembled.

As for sponsorship, I was extremely lucky to win the contest that provided me with the Rushforth wheels, Yokohama tires, and Baer brakes for this project. The companies that were sponsors of the contest kinda got screwed by the media company that ran the contest. The media company did a very poor job promoting the companies which I believed was a loss for the sponsoring companies. This is not just my opinion, the owner of the media company agreed with me. Since these companies all make very good products I'm proud to run on my car I took it upon myself to write a project thread and post it on various forums in the hope that the increased exposure will generate enough sales to make it worthwhile for them in the long run. There's a lot of extra time and work involved taking all the pics, writing, posting, etc. but I feel the companies deserve it.

I've been on both sides of the sponsorship deal many times in the past. Whenever a company sponsors something (or someone) they need to get a good return on their investment. That return needs to come from additional sales generated solely from the person/project being sponsored. In the case of car parts like these the company needs to sell several sets just to break even on the ones they gave away never mind earn a profit. So for a company like Baer brakes they've probably got to get around $20,000.00 in additional sales generated by sponsoring the contest just to break even!

All that said, I've been in talks and emailed back and forth with Dave the owner of Pro-Touring F-body while designing, prototyping, and installing the new parts and modifications posted above. I wanted to keep him "in the loop" so to speak so there wouldn't be any unexpected surprises. I posted the modifications here first (a Grumpy's exclusive so far haha!) called Dave, and sent him a link to this thread so he could check out what I'd written before it gets spread all over the internet on the massive forums. I will have some news about new products and possibly sponsorship by PTFB of "The 14 Car" over the weekend or next week. Should the sponsorship work out I'll have to do a good job promoting the PTFB products since they'll loose a guaranteed sale of their upper & lower control arms, so they'll be giving up product plus the profit that would have been made on my purchase! Will keep you guys informed.
Click to expand...

Thanks Grumpy!

I've been planning on eventually swapping to some tubular control arms made by the same company that makes the G braces shown above. They have updated geometry that allow additional positive castor and negative camber. Not sure if they save any weight though. The tubular arms I've dealt with for handling are usually heavier than stock arms unlike the drag race oriented tubular stuff. I've got no extra money in the budget for them now and figured it's easy to swap them out later once the car is back on track. I need to spend the money on paint etc. now so the car can be reassembled.

As for sponsorship, I was extremely lucky to win the contest that provided me with the Rushforth wheels, Yokohama tires, and Baer brakes for this project. The companies that were sponsors of the contest kinda got screwed by the media company that ran the contest. The media company did a very poor job promoting the companies which I believed was a loss for the sponsoring companies. This is not just my opinion, the owner of the media company agreed with me. Since these companies all make very good products I'm proud to run on my car I took it upon myself to write a project thread and post it on various forums in the hope that the increased exposure will generate enough sales to make it worthwhile for them in the long run. There's a lot of extra time and work involved taking all the pics, writing, posting, etc. but I feel the companies deserve it.

I've been on both sides of the sponsorship deal many times in the past. Whenever a company sponsors something (or someone) they need to get a good return on their investment. That return needs to come from additional sales generated solely from the person/project being sponsored. In the case of car parts like these the company needs to sell several sets just to break even on the ones they gave away never mind earn a profit. So for a company like Baer brakes they've probably got to get around $20,000.00 in additional sales generated by sponsoring the contest just to break even!

All that said, I've been in talks and emailed back and forth with Dave the owner of Pro-Touring F-body while designing, prototyping, and installing the new parts and modifications posted above. I wanted to keep him "in the loop" so to speak so there wouldn't be any unexpected surprises. I posted the modifications here first (a Grumpy's exclusive so far haha!) called Dave, and sent him a link to this thread so he could check out what I'd written before it gets spread all over the internet on the massive forums. I will have some news about new products and possibly sponsorship by PTFB of "The 14 Car" over the weekend or next week. Should the sponsorship work out I'll have to do a good job promoting the PTFB products since they'll loose a guaranteed sale of their upper & lower control arms, so they'll be giving up product plus the profit that would have been made on my purchase! Will keep you guys informed.
 
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87vette81big said:
Nice Birdman
You will have The Best Handling 1970 Firebird in The World.
Pull 1.5 Lateral G's.
I seen recent what those Aftermarket 2nd F-body Bolt in Subframes cost.
$15,000 Cash.
Ridiculously unaffordable.

When we wete dirt teack racing with a 1967 Chevelle & 1978-87 G-body Monye Carlos the Lower Stock Ball joint would last 2-5 laps.
Even MOOG Failed snapped in 2.
The Hot trick was to use Full Size Ford Lower Balljoints.
You Ream the Lower Spindle Hole put.
Speedway Motors sells the Special Tapered Reamer.
They Fail Drag Racing also.
Super High Wheel stands then slam back tp rhe Ground.

1970-71 Spindles on our 1970-1/2 cars are unique special I recall.
Later were drop forged Steel.
Click to expand...

1.5 G's might be kinda tough to get to but we'll see! I will be testing with meters on track.

Ya aftermarket frame setups are serious cash by the time you do everything they normally get with them. Outta my budget!

Early spindles are a bit different with different bearing sizes. The spindles I'm using come with the Baer brake upgrade as part of the package.

These are what I received from Baer. The 14" rotors are the same diameter as the original wheels were when the car was made!



 
I am saving up week by week Birdman.

In the past I did lots of sidejobs $.
Good paying side jobs are hard to find right now here.
See what Spring 2016 brings.
Its never predictable anymore what earns extra $.
 
I think its best to have Multiple Engines, Transmissions, & Rear Diffs on hand.
Rebuild a few stock or Warmed over.
Trading power leverage if you need to do so later.
A few guaranteed to run on Pee water 87 octane gas too.
Just in case gas goes back up to $4.00-$5.00 per gallon .
 
I left You a Visitor Message on Max Pontiac Birdman.
I have more posts than you already.
You Lurk.
 
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