the 458 caliber rifles

Discussion in 'rifle related' started by grumpyvette, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    congrats on Both the fine deer and photo quality!
    btw, if you sight the rifle in to hit 3.5 " high at 100 yards, using a 350 round nose hornady
    pushed to 1900 fps (very easy and well under max) your all set for deer or elk,
    you can simply place the horizontal cross hair ,
    on the bucks back line if your reasonably sure its between 190-235 yards and still get good center chest bullet impacts
    but Im fairly sure youll find most shots over your years of hunting will tend to be under 180 yards
    the more I use my 450 marlin the more impressive it seems to be

    [​IMG]
    https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifl...nterlock-rn#!/

    [​IMG]

    most 45/70 lever actions work rather well using hard cast gas check bullets in the 350-405 grain weight range, and
    hard cast bullets significantly reduce wear on the rifling.
    bullets heavier than about 420 grains use too much case capacity as the bullet must be seated to the stock cartridge length to function, smoothly, unlike single shot rifles, bullets lighter than about 330 grains don,t have the bearing surface to properly engage the rifling for the 45/70 upper velocity ranges possible nor do they carry energy out to longer ranges effectively
    something like this should prove very accurate and effective for hunting and reduce the cost of ammo significantly.
    the 350-405 weight range in the 45/70 has proven to be very effective on game

    http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-350S-D.png

    http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-360R-D.png

    http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-395BG-D.png

    powders like imr 4198, RL7 and IMR 3031 generally work best

    https://www.sagesoutdoors.com/458-rifle-caliber-gator-gas-checks/
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I recently visited a local outdoor range , I brought about 6 large coin bags stuffed with rubber mulch to use as a rifle rest,
    and several rifles that have rather noticeable recoil, 378 wby, 458 LOTT , now I have a vest with a PAST recoil shield sewn into the shoulder,
    I managed to shoot some decent rather tight 1"-2" 100 yard groups off the bench rest,
    and once I had the 458 LOTT sighted in to hit where I prefer to sight in my rifles (at 3.5" high at 100 yards)
    the rifles loaded with a 540 grain hard cast bullet pushed to about 1800 fps,
    thats not max but it has significant recoil,(bullet looks like this one)
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...liber-458-459-diameter-535-grain-semi-pointed
    [​IMG]
    I started to shoot a few off hand groups just too see how I well I could do,
    well the guy next to me and the guy running the range,
    walk over to watch for a bit,
    and theres only about 6 people total on that range at this time.
    after a few shots were fired the guy next to me asked if he could try a shot, as he had never fired a serious power larger bore rifle.
    I reminded him that the rifle must be held correctly and that it had a significant recoil level,
    I showed him how to wrap his arm in the sling and properly shoulder the rifle, and pointed out that the rifle was not yet loaded,
    but to try a few practice trigger pulls and to maintain the correct sight picture even after the trigger was pulled.
    the range officer watched this with interest, I then suggested the guy temporarily borrow my shooting vest with the recoil pad,
    he politely refused as he only intended to shoot once to get a feel for the rifle.
    well I loaded it and as expected the recoil was a bit more than the guy expected , but he managed to hit the target and not drop the rifle.
    he instantly became convinced that his need for owning a 458 lott was now very low in his priority list!
    no harm done, now the range officer had been watching this and asked if he could try a shot ?
    I started to go through the same basic prep talk, but he said he had been watching and If Id just hand him a cartridge he would take a shot and be fine....
    I then suggested the guy temporarily borrow my shooting vest with the recoil pad,
    I suggested I hold the sling, I could see the potential result as he decided not to use it correctly wrapped around his arm or properly shoulder the rifle,
    as expected, the rifle recoil knocked him out of his sunglasses and forced him back on his back leg rather instantly,
    if the rifle had a scope instead of iron sights Im sure he would have had a few stitches in his forehead, as the rifle was not held firmly in the shoulder.
    Im sure pride kept him from screaming like a little girl, but he looked like someone hit in the head with a golf club, rather stunned.
    he almost dropped the rifle (It was a good idea I held the sling) the previous shooter said,
    "kinda gets your full attention when it goes off... doesn,t it"
    the range officer was not overly happy, it was probably a mistake to let him shoot the rifle.
    honestly its a skill you need to learn, to properly shoot a large bore rifle,
    and you can,t get away with the bad form and habits that you could ignore if you shoot something like a 308 win or 30/30.
    I don,t know if there will be any repercussions,...I doubt it....but its obvious that some people will not take good advice
    now I know several guys who can accurately shoot big bore rifles, but its an acquired skill, and its certainly not something joe-average
    will do well without some instruction.


    thread on bags
    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ol-you-can-buy-or-fabricate.14110/#post-73479

    heavy recoil rifles
    http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp


    http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/getting-started-hunting.11090/#post-77601

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...st-loads-in-a-458-win-45-70.14287/#post-72914

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-more-i-like-the-33-38-45-cal.2846/#post-7368

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...dent-on-your-weatherby-rifle.2403/#post-10070

    BTW
    proper sling use, a rifle recoil pad for your vest
    and a recoil pad on the stock
    http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0001001641
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... 0094310010
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  3. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    Cartridge : .458 Win.Mag.
    (the same loads may be used in a 458 LOTT case,
    but pressure and velocity will be reduced marginally)

    Bullet : .458, 350, Hornady RN 4502
    Useable Case Capaci: 91.668 grain H2O = 5.952 cm�
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
    Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

    85 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    IMR 4895 110.0 93.0 6.02 2790 98.1 61990 7436 1.070 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 748 102.3 93.0 6.03 2785 99.5 62000 7099 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon BL-C2 104.9 96.7 6.27 2785 98.9 62000 7325 1.069 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.6 107.8 93.9 6.08 2766 99.8 62000 6919 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2520 107.8 93.9 6.08 2766 99.8 62000 6919 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4895 106.7 90.1 5.84 2762 98.5 62000 7182 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 3031 110.0 86.9 5.63 2758 100.0 58983 6718 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant AR-Comp 106.2 86.9 5.63 2755 100.0 62000 6211 1.067 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation 105.6 86.8 5.63 2755 100.0 62000 6211 1.067 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA11 110.0 93.0 6.02 2755 97.3 60611 7303 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 ~approximation 110.0 93.0 6.02 2755 97.3 60611 7303 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-15 110.0 93.0 6.02 2755 97.3 60611 7303 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2206H 106.9 90.3 5.85 2753 98.0 62000 7171 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 507 103.7 91.4 5.93 2746 99.0 62000 6993 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 9 107.5 93.8 6.08 2745 97.9 62000 7106 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S321 101.7 92.5 5.99 2745 99.1 62000 7027 1.080 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot TAC 100.9 91.3 5.91 2745 99.0 62000 6981 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203B 110.0 93.0 6.02 2743 97.7 59386 7271 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N540 110.0 93.9 6.09 2742 99.9 62000 6867 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H335 97.1 89.5 5.80 2741 100.0 62000 6745 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 202 107.7 89.6 5.80 2741 100.0 62000 6734 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 10 96.7 87.3 5.66 2737 99.9 62000 6709 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223) 96.7 87.5 5.67 2736 99.9 62000 6700 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 516 107.3 96.6 6.26 2736 95.8 62000 7165 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H322 102.9 84.4 5.47 2734 100.0 62000 6511 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2219 96.8 84.4 5.47 2734 100.0 62000 6511 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
    Nitrochemie A/S 0300 94.2 81.7 5.29 2734 100.0 62000 6272 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2495 110.0 87.9 5.70 2733 100.0 58943 6629 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N530 102.5 87.1 5.65 2733 99.0 62000 6887 1.077 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S341 105.5 95.9 6.22 2727 97.7 62000 6895 1.074 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot X-Terminator 94.8 85.8 5.56 2726 100.0 62000 6540 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 201 103.4 89.3 5.79 2725 99.0 62000 6887 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 8208 XBR 104.8 88.6 5.74 2724 98.9 62000 6810 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2460 100.5 91.1 5.91 2719 99.5 62000 6696 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.5 100.5 91.1 5.91 2719 99.5 62000 6696 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R902 110.0 89.6 5.81 2713 98.9 61867 6787 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 7 105.1 95.3 6.17 2713 95.7 62000 6972 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N140 109.9 91.1 5.90 2713 100.0 62000 6453 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R901 106.1 85.2 5.52 2713 99.9 62000 6601 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
    SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39 97.4 84.1 5.45 2705 100.0 62000 5955 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H380 110.0 95.0 6.15 2704 95.3 58593 7183 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2230 98.6 89.3 5.79 2703 99.4 62000 6572 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.4 98.6 89.3 5.79 2703 99.4 62000 6572 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-12 102.4 88.3 5.72 2701 100.0 62000 6347 1.080 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot BigGame 110.0 96.0 6.22 2700 96.6 55078 7297 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S062 110.0 90.4 5.86 2697 98.7 58664 6869 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-10x 100.3 80.0 5.18 2695 100.0 62000 6097 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 11 110.0 96.0 6.22 2695 96.5 54814 7277 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203 old 110.0 94.0 6.09 2694 97.9 55145 7165 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4320 110.0 91.4 5.93 2691 97.0 58051 6934 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2210 97.2 84.8 5.49 2688 99.4 62000 6520 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 105.6 88.6 5.74 2686 98.2 62000 6615 1.082 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2015 102.0 83.4 5.40 2684 100.0 62000 6037 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI BM2 95.1 85.6 5.54 2680 99.4 62000 6461 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Benchmark 103.3 86.0 5.57 2679 99.3 62000 6471 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2200 94.3 80.9 5.24 2676 99.8 62000 6321 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 200 91.1 79.7 5.16 2675 100.0 62000 5933 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S060 106.1 87.2 5.65 2673 97.9 62000 6556 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 97.5 6.32 2670 95.8 50674 7640 1.145
    Somchem S335 107.1 88.5 5.74 2668 100.0 62000 6176 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2208 110.0 90.2 5.85 2668 96.5 57964 6871 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2206 105.3 88.0 5.70 2664 98.3 62000 6474 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon VARGET 110.0 89.9 5.83 2659 96.4 57313 6851 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N133 109.2 84.4 5.47 2653 100.0 62000 5828 1.088 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4198 99.4 75.3 4.88 2646 100.0 62000 5629 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation 95.1 77.9 5.05 2644 100.0 62000 5952 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H414 110.0 98.3 6.37 2641 90.3 52260 7290 1.142
    Winchester 760 110.0 98.3 6.37 2641 90.3 52260 7290 1.142
    Vihtavuori N130 102.9 81.3 5.27 2640 100.0 62000 5744 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 110.0 93.8 6.08 2639 92.1 58359 6783 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2207 94.6 74.8 4.84 2638 100.0 62000 5594 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder- 7 93.8 76.7 4.97 2636 100.0 62000 5691 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
    Kazan Sunar 308W 97.9 81.0 5.25 2632 100.0 62000 5724 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4198 95.6 75.9 4.92 2631 100.0 62000 5816 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4064 110.0 87.8 5.69 2631 96.4 55654 6693 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S355 110.0 90.9 5.89 2626 96.9 52162 6936 1.160
    IMR 4007 SSC 110.0 94.3 6.11 2623 90.9 57350 6811 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R903 110.0 91.9 5.96 2621 96.8 50761 6955 1.171
    Vihtavuori N120 97.2 75.0 4.86 2588 100.0 62000 5197 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 110.0 95.0 6.15 2584 92.7 47005 7214 1.194
    Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 110.0 92.3 5.98 2577 92.6 53472 6598 1.144
    Accurate 4064 110.0 86.9 5.63 2560 99.1 45996 6715 1.242
    Vihtavuori N135 110.0 84.3 5.46 2559 100.0 48753 6144 1.192
    Accurate 2700 110.0 96.0 6.22 2550 90.0 56217 6301 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S053 90.7 68.8 4.46 2543 100.0 62000 4994 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R907 110.0 91.2 5.91 2533 89.2 51102 6579 1.182
    Lovex S065 110.0 90.9 5.89 2508 91.3 47744 6580 1.214
    Norma URP 110.0 91.9 5.96 2495 91.1 42670 6897 1.245
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 110.0 91.9 5.96 2494 91.1 42629 6893 1.245
    Ramshot Hunter 110.0 96.0 6.22 2479 87.8 43065 6892 1.243
    Norma 204 110.0 96.0 6.22 2477 84.1 46353 6626 1.213
    Lovex S070 110.0 91.9 5.96 2473 88.5 44844 6593 1.243
    Vihtavuori N150 110.0 87.7 5.68 2469 96.4 43904 6333 1.244
    IMR 4350 110.0 92.4 5.99 2451 86.8 45163 6379 1.230
    Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 110.0 94.4 6.11 2445 86.5 43187 6536 1.250
    Somchem S365 110.0 92.4 5.99 2432 93.3 37767 6944 1.308
    Hodgdon H4350 110.0 90.9 5.89 2401 85.5 42461 6227 1.265
    Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 110.0 89.9 5.83 2400 92.1 39354 6389 1.294
    Bofors RP4 ~approximation 110.0 93.0 6.02 2384 81.9 41327 6333 1.277
    Raufoss RA4 110.0 93.0 6.02 2384 81.9 41327 6333 1.277
    ADI AR 2209 110.0 92.4 5.99 2350 80.3 39916 6280 1.297
    Accurate 4350 110.0 88.9 5.76 2349 87.9 34486 6566 1.366
    Rottweil R904 110.0 91.6 5.94 2344 80.4 40860 6024 1.290
    IMR 4831 110.0 89.0 5.77 2339 88.2 35297 6387 1.356
    Alliant Reloder-19 110.0 93.0 6.02 2339 80.5 38187 6322 1.321
    Somchem S361 110.0 99.0 6.42 2337 79.4 41823 5916 1.286
    Winchester Supreme 780 110.0 98.0 6.35 2318 80.2 40011 6050 1.303
    Bofors RP14 ~approximation 110.0 93.0 6.02 2313 79.9 37343 6201 1.336
    Somchem S385 110.0 94.0 6.09 2291 81.6 35157 6154 1.369
    Norma MRP 110.0 97.0 6.29 2283 78.1 34044 6593 1.382
    Hodgdon H4831 SC 110.0 94.0 6.09 2261 75.5 37490 5831 1.343
    IMR 7828 SSC 110.0 95.5 6.19 2251 73.2 36189 6048 1.361
    ADI AR 2213 110.0 94.0 6.09 2238 73.3 35858 5943 1.367
    Vihtavuori N560 110.0 95.0 6.15 2229 72.2 33296 6146 1.402
    Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 110.0 94.0 6.09 2226 75.7 32541 6170 1.412
    Raufoss RA15 110.0 94.0 6.09 2226 75.7 32541 6170 1.412
    Alliant Reloder-22 110.0 94.0 6.09 2226 75.7 32541 6170 1.412
    Accurate MAGPRO 110.0 98.8 6.40 2173 68.3 31910 5913 1.432
    Rottweil R905 110.0 92.2 5.98 2165 72.1 31740 5695 1.435
    Hodgdon H4831 110.0 90.3 5.85 2156 72.6 32756 5463 1.419
    Vihtavuori N160 110.0 89.1 5.77 2154 75.4 32879 5330 1.419
    Winchester WXR 110.0 91.9 5.96 2154 73.4 29879 5882 1.466
    Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 110.0 94.8 6.14 2132 68.3 32644 5369 1.433
    Vihtavuori N165 110.0 91.9 5.96 2131 76.3 30932 5436 1.457
    IMR 7828 110.0 90.3 5.85 2099 68.6 29958 5447 1.475
    Alliant Reloder-25 110.0 92.4 5.99 2066 72.6 27358 5636 1.528
    Ramshot Magnum 110.0 99.5 6.45 2063 65.7 30394 5429 1.479
    ADI AP 2214 110.0 96.5 6.25 2059 65.8 31111 5129 1.471
    SNPE Vectan SP 12 110.0 99.2 6.43 2058 65.7 30117 5407 1.484
    PB Clermont PCL 517 110.0 99.2 6.43 2052 65.3 29972 5377 1.488
    Accurate 3100 110.0 87.9 5.70 2005 75.5 23869 5319 1.605
    Lovex S071 110.0 87.9 5.70 2005 75.5 23869 5319 1.605
    Norma MRP 2 110.0 93.0 6.02 1949 63.3 23933 5134 1.616
    Hodgdon H1000 110.0 91.9 5.96 1930 61.3 26131 4567 1.583
    Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star 102.7 43.3 2.81 1886 100.0 62000 2374 1.302 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N570 110.0 98.0 6.35 1874 51.7 23695 4613 1.642
    Alliant Reloder 33 110.0 102.1 6.62 1849 51.2 23649 4503 1.653
    Lovex D100 110.0 100.0 6.48 1848 52.9 25518 4118 1.618
    Hodgdon Retumbo 110.0 93.5 6.06 1840 57.6 22249 4403 1.686
    Vihtavuori N170 110.0 91.9 5.96 1835 57.0 22115 4334 1.688
    Vihtavuori 24N41 110.0 99.0 6.42 1808 47.7 24262 3910 1.654
    ADI AR 2218 110.0 99.0 6.42 1749 43.3 22665 3699 1.705
    Hodgdon H870 110.0 96.0 6.22 1705 47.2 19242 3848 1.800
    Hodgdon 50BMG 110.0 94.4 6.11 1674 41.6 19705 3481 1.798
    Hodgdon US 869 110.0 99.0 6.42 1654 42.7 19400 3412 1.818
    Bofors 12,7mmRA NC1214 Lot20115087 110.0 98.3 6.37 1628 42.0 16724 3746 1.933
    SNPE Vectan SP 13 110.0 95.0 6.15 1607 44.8 17332 3366 1.894
    Alliant Reloder-50 110.0 100.5 6.51 1590 40.5 16736 3501 1.914
    ADI AS 25 BP 110.0 31.3 2.03 1589 100.0 36625 1802 1.613
    IMR TrailBoss 110.0 31.3 2.03 1589 100.0 36625 1802 1.613
    PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 110.0 95.0 6.15 1561 41.9 16554 3136 1.937
    Accurate 8700 110.0 95.2 6.17 1526 39.7 16579 2884 1.953
    Vihtavuori 20N29 110.0 100.0 6.48 1518 37.8 16359 2950 1.963
    NC A3502 ,test only 110.0 90.9 5.89 1504 30.8 17419 2380 1.933
    TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 110.0 90.9 5.89 1473 32.0 15976 2433 1.994
    V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 110.0 90.9 5.89 1084 15.3 9938 1154 2.588


    Cartridge : .458 Win.Mag.
    Bullet : .458, 400, NorthFork BondedCore
    Useable Case Capaci: 75.421 grain H2O = 4.897 cm�
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
    Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

    82 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Hodgdon BL-C2 107.8 81.8 5.30 2500 98.8 62000 6113 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 748 105.1 78.6 5.10 2496 99.4 62000 5903 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4895 109.6 76.2 4.94 2476 98.3 62000 5971 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant AR-Comp 109.4 73.6 4.77 2473 100.0 62000 5144 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation 108.8 73.6 4.77 2473 100.0 62000 5143 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2206H 109.8 76.3 4.95 2467 97.8 62000 5960 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S321 104.5 78.2 5.07 2462 99.0 62000 5855 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 507 106.5 77.3 5.01 2461 98.8 62000 5818 1.168 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2520 110.0 78.8 5.11 2461 99.6 59881 5737 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.6 110.0 78.8 5.11 2461 99.6 59881 5737 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot TAC 103.6 77.1 5.00 2461 98.9 62000 5808 1.168 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H335 99.8 75.7 4.90 2459 99.9 62000 5616 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 10 99.4 73.8 4.78 2454 99.9 62000 5578 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223) 99.3 73.9 4.79 2453 99.9 62000 5570 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 9 110.0 79.0 5.12 2453 97.6 61278 5898 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
    Nitrochemie A/S 0300 96.9 69.1 4.48 2452 100.0 62000 5193 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2219 99.4 71.4 4.63 2450 100.0 62000 5403 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H322 105.8 71.4 4.63 2450 100.0 62000 5403 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N530 105.2 73.6 4.77 2447 98.9 62000 5720 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 516 110.0 81.5 5.28 2447 95.4 61717 5949 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot X-Terminator 97.4 72.5 4.70 2444 100.0 62000 5433 1.175 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 202 110.0 75.2 4.87 2444 99.9 60621 5590 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S341 108.3 81.0 5.25 2442 97.4 62000 5724 1.168 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 201 106.2 75.4 4.89 2442 98.8 62000 5723 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 8208 XBR 107.6 74.8 4.85 2439 98.8 62000 5653 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2460 103.3 77.1 4.99 2437 99.3 62000 5560 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.5 103.3 77.1 4.99 2437 99.3 62000 5560 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4895 110.0 76.5 4.96 2434 97.1 56160 6065 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R901 109.0 72.0 4.67 2432 99.9 62000 5478 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
    SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39 100.4 71.3 4.62 2430 100.0 62000 4930 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 7 107.8 80.4 5.21 2428 95.3 62000 5781 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.4 101.3 75.5 4.89 2421 99.3 62000 5451 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2230 101.3 75.5 4.89 2421 99.3 62000 5451 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-12 105.2 74.6 4.83 2421 100.0 62000 5278 1.175 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-10x 103.1 67.6 4.38 2416 100.0 62000 5047 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 3031 110.0 71.5 4.63 2412 100.0 53354 5529 1.223
    Accurate 2015 104.9 70.5 4.57 2405 100.0 62000 4999 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2210 99.6 71.5 4.64 2405 99.3 62000 5407 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 108.2 74.7 4.84 2402 98.0 62000 5485 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-15 110.0 76.5 4.96 2402 96.1 54985 5943 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA11 110.0 76.5 4.96 2402 96.1 54985 5943 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 ~approximation 110.0 76.5 4.96 2402 96.1 54985 5943 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N540 110.0 77.3 5.01 2400 99.6 56359 5662 1.213 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 200 93.7 67.4 4.37 2398 100.0 62000 4906 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI BM2 97.5 72.2 4.68 2397 99.3 62000 5358 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Benchmark 105.9 72.5 4.70 2397 99.2 62000 5366 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203B 110.0 76.5 4.96 2392 96.6 53770 5924 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2200 96.7 68.3 4.42 2392 99.7 62000 5231 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S335 109.9 74.7 4.84 2391 100.0 62000 5134 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S060 108.7 73.5 4.76 2389 97.7 62000 5430 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2495 110.0 72.3 4.69 2387 100.0 52454 5467 1.269
    ADI AR 2206 107.9 74.2 4.81 2382 98.1 62000 5366 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N140 110.0 75.0 4.86 2375 99.8 56524 5311 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R902 110.0 73.7 4.78 2369 98.2 56416 5541 1.234 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4198 102.0 63.6 4.12 2367 100.0 62000 4639 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N130 105.6 68.6 4.45 2364 100.0 62000 4752 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2207 97.2 63.2 4.10 2362 100.0 62000 4618 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation 97.4 65.6 4.25 2361 100.0 62000 4913 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder- 7 96.3 64.8 4.20 2359 100.0 62000 4698 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
    Kazan Sunar 308W 100.5 68.3 4.43 2355 100.0 62000 4734 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S062 110.0 74.4 4.82 2354 97.8 53310 5606 1.252
    Hodgdon H380 110.0 78.1 5.06 2353 93.8 52908 5831 1.249
    Ramshot BigGame 110.0 79.0 5.12 2352 95.2 50150 5939 1.258
    Hodgdon H4198 98.0 64.0 4.14 2349 100.0 62000 4793 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 11 110.0 79.0 5.12 2347 95.1 49912 5922 1.261
    IMR 4320 110.0 75.2 4.87 2346 95.8 53278 5634 1.236
    Norma 203 old 110.0 77.3 5.01 2346 96.7 49254 5850 1.278
    Vihtavuori N133 110.0 70.0 4.54 2340 100.0 58416 4789 1.213 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2208 110.0 74.2 4.81 2329 95.3 53167 5583 1.246
    Hodgdon VARGET 110.0 74.0 4.79 2321 95.2 52576 5566 1.252
    Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 80.2 5.20 2318 94.0 46167 6209 1.296
    Vihtavuori N120 99.8 63.4 4.11 2316 100.0 62000 4279 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4227 92.2 58.7 3.80 2310 100.0 62000 4311 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4227 91.5 58.2 3.77 2299 100.0 62000 4285 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 110.0 77.1 5.00 2297 90.4 53797 5473 1.244 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4064 110.0 72.2 4.68 2295 95.2 50946 5427 1.273
    Winchester 760 110.0 80.9 5.24 2292 88.1 47518 5873 1.293
    Hodgdon H414 110.0 80.9 5.24 2292 88.1 47518 5873 1.293
    Somchem S355 110.0 74.8 4.85 2290 95.6 47156 5645 1.309
    IMR 4007 SSC 110.0 77.6 5.03 2282 89.1 52289 5495 1.273
    Rottweil R903 110.0 75.6 4.90 2281 95.5 45359 5658 1.325
    Lovex S053 93.0 58.0 3.76 2272 100.0 62000 4103 1.218 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 110.0 78.1 5.06 2247 90.9 42609 5843 1.349
    Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 110.0 76.0 4.92 2244 90.9 49060 5331 1.293
    Vihtavuori N135 110.0 69.3 4.49 2236 99.7 43981 5043 1.343
    Accurate 4064 110.0 71.5 4.63 2232 98.3 41029 5495 1.403
    Accurate 2700 110.0 79.0 5.12 2217 88.1 51331 5074 1.296
    Rottweil R907 110.0 75.1 4.86 2204 87.4 46663 5300 1.336
    Lovex S065 110.0 74.8 4.85 2183 89.6 43427 5315 1.371
    Norma URP 110.0 75.6 4.90 2168 89.1 38876 5566 1.406
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 110.0 75.6 4.90 2167 89.1 38841 5562 1.406
    Vihtavuori N150 110.0 72.2 4.68 2153 95.2 39885 5150 1.403
    Ramshot Hunter 110.0 79.0 5.12 2152 85.6 39336 5544 1.405
    Lovex S070 110.0 75.6 4.90 2150 86.6 40516 5310 1.405
    Norma 204 110.0 79.0 5.12 2148 81.8 42432 5310 1.373
    IMR 4350 110.0 76.1 4.93 2131 84.8 41449 5124 1.389
    Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 110.0 77.6 5.03 2121 84.3 39309 5252 1.414
    Somchem S365 110.0 76.1 4.93 2108 91.2 34376 5609 1.471
    Hodgdon H4350 110.0 74.8 4.85 2088 83.5 39011 4998 1.427
    Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 110.0 74.0 4.79 2084 90.1 35981 5151 1.459
    Bofors RP4 ~approximation 110.0 76.5 4.96 2068 79.7 37908 5068 1.444
    Raufoss RA4 110.0 76.5 4.96 2068 79.7 37908 5068 1.444
    ADI AR 2209 110.0 76.1 4.93 2038 77.9 36697 5013 1.465
    Rottweil R904 110.0 75.4 4.89 2035 78.2 37536 4815 1.458
    Accurate 4350 110.0 73.2 4.74 2035 85.6 31057 5275 1.541
    IMR 4831 110.0 73.2 4.75 2031 86.1 32111 5137 1.522
    Alliant Reloder-19 110.0 76.5 4.96 2030 78.2 35059 5055 1.486
    Somchem S361 110.0 81.5 5.28 2026 77.0 38178 4729 1.457
    Bofors RP14 ~approximation 110.0 76.5 4.96 2008 77.6 34294 4957 1.501
    Winchester Supreme 780 110.0 80.6 5.23 2005 77.6 36547 4829 1.478
    Somchem S385 110.0 77.3 5.01 1985 79.2 31964 4922 1.543
    Norma MRP 110.0 79.8 5.17 1971 75.1 31072 5235 1.560
    Hodgdon H4831 SC 110.0 77.3 5.01 1959 73.0 34434 4641 1.517
    IMR 7828 SSC 110.0 78.6 5.09 1944 70.2 33185 4771 1.538
    ADI AR 2213 110.0 77.3 5.01 1936 70.5 32957 4703 1.543
    Vihtavuori N560 110.0 78.1 5.06 1927 69.4 30503 4867 1.581
    Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 110.0 77.3 5.01 1926 73.0 29792 4905 1.593
    Alliant Reloder-22 110.0 77.3 5.01 1926 73.0 29792 4905 1.593
    Raufoss RA15 110.0 77.3 5.01 1926 73.0 29792 4905 1.593
    Accurate MAGPRO 110.0 81.3 5.27 1874 65.4 29134 4662 1.619
    Rottweil R905 110.0 75.9 4.92 1872 69.5 29103 4515 1.620
    Vihtavuori N160 110.0 73.3 4.75 1870 73.2 30299 4248 1.596
    Hodgdon H4831 110.0 74.3 4.82 1868 70.2 30172 4342 1.605



    Cartridge : .458 Win.Mag.
    Bullet : .458, 500, Hornady RN InterLock 4504
    Useable Case Capaci: 76.503 grain H2O = 4.967 cm�
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
    Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

    87 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Ramshot BigGame 109.8 80.0 5.18 2263 99.6 62000 6116 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 11 110.0 80.1 5.19 2262 99.6 62000 6107 1.277 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 81.4 5.27 2262 99.6 57243 6451 1.300 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4895 106.0 74.7 4.84 2249 99.7 62000 6023 1.292 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon BL-C2 101.1 77.8 5.04 2244 100.0 62000 5912 1.292 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203 old 109.2 77.9 5.05 2242 99.9 62000 5891 1.298 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 203B 107.3 75.7 4.90 2240 99.7 62000 5951 1.294 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 ~approximation 106.7 75.3 4.88 2238 99.5 62000 5975 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-15 106.7 75.3 4.88 2238 99.5 62000 5975 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA11 106.7 75.3 4.88 2238 99.5 62000 5975 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H414 110.0 82.0 5.32 2238 96.0 59173 6362 1.299 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 760 110.0 82.0 5.32 2238 96.0 59173 6362 1.299 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 748 98.5 74.8 4.84 2237 100.0 62000 5641 1.287 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 3031 107.1 70.6 4.57 2226 100.0 62000 5308 1.292 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H380 107.8 77.7 5.03 2225 98.5 62000 6009 1.300 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4895 102.8 72.5 4.70 2223 99.9 62000 5789 1.301 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2206H 103.1 72.7 4.71 2219 99.7 62000 5811 1.302 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2520 103.8 75.4 4.89 2218 100.0 62000 5470 1.306 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.6 103.8 75.4 4.89 2218 100.0 62000 5470 1.306 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4320 108.4 75.2 4.87 2217 99.6 62000 5735 1.286 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 9 103.7 75.5 4.90 2215 99.6 62000 5784 1.297 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 516 103.7 77.9 5.05 2215 98.5 62000 5927 1.296 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S321 98.1 74.5 4.82 2209 100.0 62000 5649 1.305 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 507 100.0 73.6 4.77 2209 100.0 62000 5619 1.300 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot TAC 97.3 73.4 4.76 2208 100.0 62000 5605 1.300 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2495 106.9 71.3 4.62 2205 100.0 62000 5233 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S062 107.7 73.9 4.79 2203 100.0 62000 5562 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R903 110.0 76.7 4.97 2202 99.7 58626 5785 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N540 106.1 75.6 4.90 2202 100.0 62000 5492 1.303 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S355 110.0 75.9 4.92 2201 99.7 59510 5793 1.323 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S341 101.8 77.3 5.01 2201 99.6 62000 5612 1.298 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2208 108.4 74.2 4.81 2197 99.3 62000 5729 1.298 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon VARGET 108.8 74.2 4.81 2197 99.3 62000 5729 1.298 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N530 98.9 70.1 4.54 2196 100.0 62000 5520 1.304 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H335 93.5 72.0 4.66 2195 100.0 62000 5348 1.303 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 7 101.6 76.8 4.98 2195 98.4 62000 5750 1.309 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 202 103.7 72.0 4.66 2194 100.0 62000 5332 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 201 99.7 71.9 4.66 2191 100.0 62000 5524 1.318 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 10 93.1 70.2 4.55 2190 100.0 62000 5302 1.307 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4064 109.7 73.1 4.73 2190 99.4 62000 5593 1.303 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223) 93.1 70.3 4.55 2189 100.0 62000 5295 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 8208 XBR 101.1 71.3 4.62 2189 100.0 62000 5461 1.305 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 110.0 79.3 5.14 2188 97.8 53645 6243 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 108.5 77.2 5.00 2186 96.6 62000 5803 1.293 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant AR-Comp 101.8 69.5 4.50 2185 100.0 62000 4897 1.302 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation 101.3 69.5 4.50 2185 100.0 62000 4897 1.302 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R902 106.1 72.2 4.68 2183 100.0 62000 5445 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2460 96.9 73.3 4.75 2182 100.0 62000 5318 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.5 96.9 73.3 4.75 2182 100.0 62000 5318 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2219 93.1 67.8 4.39 2181 100.0 62000 5134 1.304 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H322 99.0 67.8 4.39 2181 100.0 62000 5134 1.304 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4007 SSC 108.8 77.8 5.04 2181 95.6 62000 5859 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot X-Terminator 91.2 68.9 4.46 2177 100.0 62000 5163 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N140 105.9 73.2 4.75 2172 100.0 62000 5113 1.309 ! Near Maximum !
    Nitrochemie A/S 0300 90.3 65.4 4.24 2170 100.0 62000 4932 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R901 102.1 68.4 4.43 2170 100.0 62000 5197 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2230 95.0 71.8 4.65 2169 100.0 62000 5223 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D073.4 95.0 71.8 4.65 2169 100.0 62000 5223 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 110.0 77.1 4.99 2165 97.4 60043 5691 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 102.0 71.4 4.63 2163 99.8 62000 5359 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-12 98.7 71.0 4.60 2159 100.0 62000 5033 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2210 93.8 68.3 4.43 2157 100.0 62000 5198 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S060 102.5 70.4 4.56 2152 99.6 62000 5323 1.315 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Benchmark 99.7 69.3 4.49 2150 100.0 62000 5172 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI BM2 91.8 68.9 4.47 2150 100.0 62000 5156 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2206 101.8 71.0 4.60 2145 99.8 62000 5249 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
    SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39 93.3 67.2 4.36 2143 100.0 62000 4688 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4064 110.0 72.5 4.70 2143 100.0 53529 5397 1.402
    Accurate 2200 91.0 65.2 4.22 2140 100.0 62000 4997 1.318 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-10x 96.4 64.1 4.15 2140 100.0 62000 4804 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R907 110.0 76.1 4.93 2136 94.9 57612 5757 1.352 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2015 98.1 66.9 4.34 2135 100.0 62000 4756 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S335 103.3 71.2 4.62 2134 100.0 62000 4898 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 2700 109.5 79.7 5.17 2133 95.1 62000 5459 1.324 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N135 110.0 70.3 4.56 2120 100.0 56032 4899 1.365 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP 110.0 76.7 4.97 2119 96.9 48478 6013 1.411
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 110.0 76.7 4.97 2118 96.9 48432 6010 1.411
    Lovex S065 110.0 75.9 4.92 2115 96.6 54100 5709 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter 110.0 80.1 5.19 2113 94.6 48546 6126 1.410
    Vihtavuori N133 105.2 67.9 4.40 2113 100.0 62000 4606 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation 91.7 62.7 4.06 2108 100.0 62000 4683 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 204 110.0 80.1 5.19 2108 91.3 52073 5953 1.382
    Vihtavuori N130 99.1 65.3 4.23 2099 100.0 62000 4543 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4198 92.3 61.1 3.96 2096 100.0 62000 4564 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4198 95.6 60.4 3.92 2096 100.0 62000 4431 1.324 ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S070 110.0 76.7 4.97 2095 94.6 51106 5796 1.412
    Kazan Sunar 308W 94.4 65.1 4.22 2093 100.0 62000 4527 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder- 7 90.3 61.6 3.99 2091 100.0 62000 4486 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2207 90.8 59.9 3.88 2086 100.0 62000 4410 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 110.0 78.8 5.10 2080 93.3 49021 5816 1.418
    Somchem S365 110.0 77.2 5.00 2080 98.8 42972 5971 1.470
    IMR 4350 110.0 77.2 5.00 2075 93.2 50704 5649 1.405
    Vihtavuori N150 110.0 73.2 4.74 2074 99.6 50286 5322 1.417
    Vihtavuori N120 93.3 60.1 3.89 2043 100.0 62000 4094 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 110.0 75.0 4.86 2039 97.8 44566 5522 1.466
    Hodgdon H4350 110.0 75.9 4.92 2035 92.2 47665 5544 1.443
    Raufoss RA4 110.0 77.6 5.03 2034 89.5 46418 5739 1.452
    Bofors RP4 ~approximation 110.0 77.6 5.03 2034 89.5 46418 5739 1.452
    Accurate 4350 110.0 74.2 4.81 2015 95.1 40093 5807 1.533
    ADI AR 2209 110.0 77.2 5.00 2011 88.5 44712 5747 1.473
    Alliant Reloder-19 110.0 77.6 5.03 2002 88.5 42848 5777 1.497
    IMR 4831 110.0 74.3 4.81 1998 95.1 40346 5646 1.532
    Rottweil R904 110.0 76.5 4.96 1996 87.9 45841 5460 1.470
    Somchem S361 110.0 82.6 5.35 1992 86.8 47064 5381 1.463
    Winchester Supreme 780 110.0 81.8 5.30 1989 88.4 45033 5545 1.477
    Norma MRP 110.0 80.9 5.25 1983 87.9 38418 6184 1.554
    Bofors RP14 ~approximation 110.0 77.6 5.03 1981 88.0 41886 5679 1.514
    Somchem S385 110.0 78.4 5.08 1966 89.6 40025 5591 1.544
    IMR 7828 SSC 110.0 79.7 5.16 1947 83.0 40597 5721 1.538
    Hodgdon H4831 SC 110.0 78.4 5.08 1939 84.0 42001 5405 1.525
    Vihtavuori N560 110.0 79.3 5.14 1931 81.8 37426 5820 1.584
    ADI AR 2213 110.0 78.4 5.08 1931 82.8 40140 5616 1.549
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2018/9/14/head-to-head-458-win-mag-vs-458-lott/

    Head to Head: .458 Win. Mag. vs. .458 Lott
    by Philip Massaro - Friday, September 14, 2018

    [​IMG]

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    Once upon a time, the firm of John Rigby & Co. developed a 3 ¼″ cartridge, designed to launch a 480-grain bullet of .458″ diameter to a muzzle velocity of 2150 fps, and the hunting community was happy. The .450 Nitro Express was deemed to be the perfect cartridge for the dangerous game of Africa and India. Then, during the desolation of British ammunition, supplies of .450 NE ammunition withered, and many fine double rifles were left to starve. The hunting community was saddened.

    The American firm of Winchester came to the rescue, filling the void left by the increasing absence of the .450 Nitro Express, by modifying the most-excellent .375 Holland & Holland Belted Magnum and mating it with the .458”-diameter bullets of the .450 NE. The .458 Winchester Magnum, released to the sporting public in 1956, offered the ballistic formula of the .450 NE in a bolt-action, affordable rifle. The .458 Winchester Magnum is a straight-walled case, using the H&H belt of brass for proper headspacing. Driving a 510-grain bullet at the same muzzle velocity of 2150 fps, the .458 Winchester Magnum was a success—at least in theory.

    [​IMG]

    Winchester developed its ballistic data for the cartridge in a 26″ barrel, which is a bit long for a dangerous game bolt-action rifle, so the actual ‘street’ velocities never made the advertised 2150 fps. Report of muzzle velocities as low as 1850 fps were not uncommon, and that makes a huge difference in performance on dangerous game. Couple that with the fact that the Winchester case—shortened from the H&H 2.85″ length down to 2.50″ to work in a .30-06-length action—left little room for the powder charge, and there was a real problem with the cartridge. Field reports of squib loads from a result of the compressed powder coagulating in the African heat, caused more than a few dangerous situations; there were reports of bullets actually bouncing off an elephant’s hide—the problem was real.

    In 1959, in Mozambique, a California hunter named Jacques P. Lott—known to his friends as Jack—had a terrible run in with a rogue Cape buffalo. He shot the beast with the then three-year-old .458 Winchester Magnum, and found himself airborne, bruised and bleeding as a result of being tossed by Black Death. He survived to tell the tale, but brooded on the fact that he needed to build a better mouse trap. If the .450 Nitro Express rightly earned a reputation as an excellent choice for all-around big-game hunting, why did the .458 Winchester Magnum fail him? The bullets were dependable, so that left but one problem: the case capacity. Jack pondered the idea, and as the story goes, he drew the blueprints for what would become the .458 Lott on a napkin in a diner. The concept? To boost the velocity of the (then) anemic .458 Winchester Magnum by lengthening the case to the full H&H 2.85″, allowing for greater powder capacity.

    [​IMG]

    Experiments were conducted with varying degrees of success. The first was to use a .375 H&Hcase, in a lengthened .458 chamber, loaded with a heeled .458″ bullet which tapered down to .375″. The resulting case opened up to the necessary .458″, but the fire-forming process shortened the case to 2.80″. That case-length would become the standard for the .458 Lott, which received SAAMI approval in 1989, after being produced by Col. Arthur Alphin’s A-Square firm. Not only did the new case solve the original issue, but offered a velocity increase to 2300 fps with 500-grain bullets.

    The .458 Winchester Magnum plodded on, and the ship seems to be righted. Most modern factory loads still fall shy of the 2150 fps mark, but to be honest, so do many of the .450 Nitro Express cartridges. I feel that anything between 2050 and 2100 fps is a fair shake for the .458 Winchester, and a good bullet at those velocities will most certainly kill even the biggest beasts cleanly. The .458 Lott has certainly earned its reputation as a wonderful big-game cartridge; despite the fact that a longer receiver is required, it is an excellent choice for any game that walks.

    [​IMG]

    So, which makes the better choice for a prospective big-game hunter? I feel that, hands down, the .458 Lott is a vastly superior cartridge when it comes to hunting animals that require a cartridge of this class. Firstly, it avoids the overly-compressed powder charges that come with the .458 Winchester; though it may seem silly, the 0.30″ increase in case length gives just the proper amount of case capacity to avoid powder issues. I’ve spent a considerable amount of time handloading for both, and trying to get the .458 Winchester to deliver muzzle velocities above 2050 or 2075 fps can be a real chore, especially in the shorter-barreled rifles.

    When handloading for the .458 Lott, I can easily obtain velocities in the 2200 to 2250 fps range—a bit below factory loads, yet completely effective in the field. Secondly, the excellent monometal bullets, which are all longer than their lead-core counterparts, take up more space in the case, and will further compromise the already limited .458 Winchester case. The additional capacity of the Lott makes using these bullets, which give phenomenal penetration, much easier. Simply put, the Lott gives the shooter more options than does the .458 Win. Mag.

    [​IMG]

    I know a good number of Professional Hunters across Africa who’ve had their .458 Winchester rifles converted to .458 Lott; one of the benefits of this maneuver is that .458 Winchester Magnum ammunition can safely—and rather accurately—be fired out of a .458 Lott chamber. With hindsight, I firmly believe that Winchester would have used the 2.85″ case when developing the .458 Winchester Magnum; it’s just a smarter design across the board. It easily achieves that magical 5,000 ft.-lb. energy mark, has enough horsepower to give plenty of penetration—even on the huge pachyderms—and runs at relatively low pressures. While the .450 NE made its bones with a 480-grain bullet, the Lott can easily handle the 500 and even 550-grain bullets, again giving the shooter more flexibility.

    Though it’s a relative newcomer on the scene, approaching its 30th anniversary on the market, it is one of the most sensible and economical choices for a big-game hunter who appreciates the benefits of a .458″-diameter bullet. Thank you Jack, for your design.
     
  5. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    By Philip Massaro
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    There was a time, though it may seem inconceivable now, where the selection of safari ammunition was extremely limited, at best. After WWII, Kynoch – the predominate supplier of Nitro Express cartridge ammunition – was in serious trouble, and fodder for the classic pre-war double rifles became simply unavailable. What little supply existed was hoarded and cherished, but many rifles sat in the rack, silent and untouched. The bespoke rifle era was all but over, and the mass-production era and its mentality had made its way into the rifle world. Now, it wasn’t necessarily a bad thing, all around; Winchester had the forethought to fill the void by producing both rifles and ammunition for the .375 H&H Belted Magnum – an undeniable classic – and their own proprietary .458 Winchester Magnum. The latter was built around the H&H belted case, shortened to 2.500”, blown out to hold the .458” bullets of the .450 3 ¼” Nitro Express, and – at least on paper – match the muzzle velocity of the .450 NE; that formula of a 480-grain bullet at 2,150 fps was revolutionary and became a staple in the dangerous game fields, yielding just under 5,000 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy.

    [​IMG]
    An undisputable big game stopper, the .458 Lott improves the ballistics of the .458 Winchester and .450 Nitro Express. It is a perfect choice for the big game hunter who prefers a bolt-action rifle.

    The Model 70 African rifle was a solid design, complete with a Mauser-based controlled round feed action, and horizontal three-position safety, but the .458 Winchester Magnum cartridge wasn’t what was intended. Reports came back from the field of seriously low velocities and poor penetration, some reports – whether credible or not is unknown – stated that bullets were actually bouncing off of elephants. The problem was the powder capacity, and while I can attest to the modern loads having resolved the problem, it was a serious issue at the time, especially considering the fact that the only other suitable cartridge was the much-lighter .375 H&H.

    [​IMG]
    The 550-grain Woodleigh Weldcore softpoint is perfect in the .458 Lott, as loaded by Norma in its African PH line. Cruising at 2,100 fps, these heavy bullets are perfect for the large beasts.

    One of the hunters who experienced such an issue was one Jacques P. Lott, better known as Jack. An encounter with a Mozambican Cape buffalo, and some less-than-desirable .458 ammunition led to a battered, airborne, bruised and bleeding Mr. Lott. His mind got to working, and he realized that using the full-length H&H case rather than the shorter Winchester case would give more room for powder, and thereby better velocities. He worked some .375 H&H brass, but the process left Mr. Lott’s cartridge a bit shorter than the H&H length of 2.850”, leaving the Lott case measuring 2.800”.

    [​IMG]
    For an elephant hunter, or for use as backup on Cape buffalo, it’s very hard to argue with the 450-grain Woodleigh Full Metal jacket. Norma loads the 550-grain slug in its African PH line, and it is wonderful stuff.

    From the time that buffalo sent Mr. Lott spinning through the atmosphere, three decades would pass before his .458 Lott would be offered as a commercial cartridge. Nonetheless, it was a welcome addition to the lineup of dangerous game cartridges. There was a resurgence of big bore cartridges in the late 1980s, including the .416 Rigby and .470 Nitro Express, as well as the developments of the .416 Remington Magnum and .416 Weatherby Magnum. But the .458 Lott made perfect sense as a big game rifle for a traveling sportsman, as well as a stopping rifle for Professional Hunters. As an added benefit to the design, ammunition for the .458 Winchester can be fired safely in rifles chambered for the .458 Lott, as it shares the same case dimensions with the exception of length. The final SAAMI-approved Lott launched a 500-grain bullet at muzzle velocity of 2,300 fps – quite an improvement over the actual measured velocities of the .458 Winchester Magnum – and it showed its worth against buffalo, elephant and hippo. Many writers have opined that the .458 makes the best bolt-action elephant cartridge, and I have seen its benefits regarding the African Cape buffalo. My good friend Dr. Mike McNulty has a tricked out Ruger RSM in .458 Lott that he absolutely loves for dangerous game; with it he crumpled a Cape buffalo cow with one well-placed Woodleigh Weldcore. The slug penetrated perfectly, and had the high weight retention that the Weldcore is famous for.

    [​IMG]
    The author is convinced that the .458 Lott would have made the famous hunters of a century ago very happy. It offers fantastic, reliable performance from a bolt-action rifle.

    Recoil is not slight, but exactly terrible either. If you’re familiar with the recoil of the big bore rifles, and know the proper technique to deal with that recoil, the Lott will not punish you. Headspacing off the belt (one of the few belted cartridges that actually do), it feeds smoothly and reliably, and being of a smaller diameter than cartridges the likes of the .416 Rigby, magazine capacity was increased. What the .458 caliber cartridges lack in reach, they make up for in horsepower, and the Lott is no exception. A 500-grain slug launched at 2,300 fps yields just under 5,900 ft.-lbs. of energy, and those bullets offer excellent penetration, even on the pachyderms. While that is a fantastic formula, Norma – in its African PH line of ammunition – offers both the 550-grain Woodleigh Weldcore softpoint and the 550-grain Woodleigh FMJ at a muzzle velocity of 2,100 fps, for over 5,300 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy. If you’re interested in stopping things, dangerous things, well, just about anything, this is a combination with which to do so. In my experiences with this ammunition line, in a wide variety of calibers including the .458 Lott, it is very accurate.

    [​IMG]
    The famous ‘norma’ headstamp is synonymous with quality, dependability and reliability.

    When I think about a bolt-action stopping cartridge that won’t detach a retina or crack a molar, I think of the .458 Lott. It offers both the bullet weight and velocities necessary for dangerous game work, without the hellacious recoil of the .500s. It can be housed in a reasonably compact action, making for a well-balancing rifle; this can be paramount to quick, accurate shooting. It will work well with a 22” barrel, keeping the overall package concise for those hunts in the thick bush where elephants seek seclusion and wounded buffalo love to head.

    I truly believe that if the old-time elephant hunters like John ‘Pondoro’ Taylor, Harry Manners, and the like could’ve spent a season with a well-tuned .458 Lott, they’d have returned from the bush a convert. If you’re shopping for a dangerous game gun, keep the Lott high on the list of considerations; I don’t know a single Professional Hunter who wouldn’t be happy with a client who showed up in camp with a rifle chambered for the Lott that he or she shot proficiently.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member



    if you don,t handload ,
    you can expect to pay a great deal more for ammo, that fits rifles like a 458 win, 458 lott,
    416 rem or the larger 416, 375, and 458 bore size weatherby cartridges,etc.
    and if you cast your own bullets you could easily reduce ammo cost considerably,
    to less than a dollar a shot average vs about $6 a cartridge for some factory ammo .
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021 at 12:28 PM
  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I recently loaned out one of my rifles to a guy Ive known for 4 decades or more, as he expressed a desire to try one out on a upcoming hog hunt,
    its a remington bolt action 458 mag, similar to this picture
    [​IMG]
    I handed him 40 hand-loaded cartridges , I had on hand , that I used several times on local hog hunting trips,
    as hes been curious as to the effective punch of a larger bore rifle,
    hell yes its massive over kill, you could easily kill a 1 ton buffalo, or an elephant,
    what you get is reliable and very deep strait line penetration,something you rarely see in the 30 and lower caliber projectiles that weigh under about 180 grains, as many are designed for fast expansion, and while thats lethal if you get a broadside heart/lung shot thats not always an option.
    hes only used a 308 win in the past, and while the 308 win is a very good cartridge its not in the same class as a serious magnum big bore with a 540 grain hard cast bullet thats packing a considerable penetration advantage.
    yeah, you certainly pay a price in increased recoil, but its certainly not something you can,t learn to handle with practice.
    knowing that I down loaded the cartridges as hes very unlikely to make any shots at over 150 yards .
    I loaded 540 grain bullets at 1500 fps
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101030648
    recoils still up near 43 ft lbs in a 10 lb rifle,
    but if you use the sling properly its marginally manageable,
    and well under what you would see pushing that same projectile to near 1900 fps.
    now he tried several shots off the bench rest and while he was obviously impressed with the recoil,
    it did not really hurt accuracy, yes, the accuracy was still decent as he shot a 2" 3 shot 100 yard group.
    this rifle and ammo, will shoot length wise through a large hog,
    chest too ham and still exit and still cut through 5" diameter,
    trees past the intended target
    (ask me how I know):D
    yeah youll know you pulled the trigger ,
    but the hog won,t have a $%&^* clue,
    when the result of a centered chest hit passing through the body length,
    will be similar to being stomped on by GODZILLA
    I insisted he use a vest with a shoulder recoil pad ,
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002531259?pid=699899
    [​IMG]
    and after he tried a few shots he agreed its use with the rifle was mandatory, as Id suggested it would be..
    I'm not sure if I will get a new big bore enthusiast.
    or someone who trys and discards the big bore rifle use idea as unnecessary.
    so far the big grin hes sporting at the range... makes me feel hes mildly infected with the magnum rifle big bore virus,
    someones bound to ask.. why I did not load a 300-350 grain bullet at maybe 1400 fps as the recoil would be far lower....
    well he specifically asked for ammo that would punch cleanly through a telephone pole or shoot lengthwise through a large hog,
    he wanted to use something that would as he stated "KICK A LARGE HOGS A$$ SIX WAYS TO SUNDAY" perhaps being partly masochistic, in your personality characteristics is part of the fun.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  8. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I was recently asked by a fairly knowledgeable friend about my potential choice or selection
    if I had to select a decent back-up rifle, AND CALIBER,
    now understand
    I WAS NOT GOING TO BE HUNTING,
    I'D JUST BE STANDING SLIGHTLY BEHIND HIM ACTING AS INSURANCE,
    IF HE BIT OFF MORE THAN HE COULD HANDLE

    he just got through reading several books like these I lent him,
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    if I was to hunt something rather dangerous,

    THAT COULD IF PROVOKED, STOMP OR MAUL YOU VERY EFFECTIVELY AND LETHALLY.
    I THINK ID GO THE CZ 458 LOTT ROUTE,
    WITH A SLOW EXPANDING BULLET IN THE 550 GRAIN RANGE
    WITH A LARGER RECEIVER REAR SIGHT
    IF YOUR ONLY GOING TO GET ONE SHOT IN A TIGHT SPOT AT POINT BLANK RANGES,
    YOU MIGHT AS WELL SELECT SOMETHING THAT WILL
    HIT HARD AND PENETRATE WELL

    [​IMG]


    WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CHOICE
    AND YEAH I OWN ONE AND I,M WELL AWARE OF THE RECOIL
    BUT THERES A CERTAIN SENSE OF SECURITY, IN LETTING SOMETHING GET IN CLOSE BEFORE YOU FIRE...
    IF YOUR FACING SOMETHING NASTY OVER THOSE SIGHTS,
    I think he was thinking or daydreaming about cape buffalo or Kodiak bear ,or polar bear,
    as hunting tiger or elephant is very unlikely,
    if you think logically, youll select the largest caliber rifle you could shoot fast and accurately!
    if you DON"T have the practice and skill to get it on target almost instantly without thinking about its use, due to constant practice,
    and ready and HIT what you need to, your rifle choice not going to do you any good!
    most of my friends are far faster and more consistent if they use my 375 H&H carbine, and yes,
    a good centered hit to the vitals with a 375 H&H is lethal on anything with proper ammo and shot placement
    [​IMG]


    a damn good video to show the advantage of using a hard cast bullet in a 45/70 , 450 marlin or 458 win , I'm not impressed with the guy doing the video,
    but the results are rather instructive and educational.

    while the lever actions are fast handy and accurate and have all the power required,
    the rifle twist generally works best with the 400-430 grain hard cast bullets,
    a step up and more power and measurably deeper penetration is available,
    with a 458 winchester or 458 LOTT rifle downloaded.
    for use with case gas check bullets for deer and elk, with a heavier cast gas check bullet.
    as theres zero advantage in loading either big game cartridge chambered rifle to the cartridges full power level.
    over a typical hollow point when you want to punch deep and break bones in larger game.
    one of the guys I hunted with for decades used a ruger 458 win ruger #1 in 458 with these bullets
    we have yet to recover one of the 470 grain bullets from any game shot
    ,but the 350=375 grain hard cast are typically expand to about .70-.76 caliber and if you shoot a large hog in the chest these occasionally are found in the hindquarters.
    (even most of those exit)
    53 grains of imr 3031 produced an accurate load, in his ruger, 458 win mag
    that load was at about 1800 fps in his rifle with that cast 470 grain bullet in his 458 win.
    https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....llet-mould-number-457671-45-caliber-470-grain

    theres several good lighter .458 diam. bullets in the 300-370 grain weight range that reduce recoil fully adequate for hunting in the lever action rifles,
    most are easily pushed to 1800-1900 fps or a bit more in the 45/7--or--450 marlins
    http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360S-D.png

    I've found the 405 grain bullets, either cast or jacketed,
    can easily use 50 grains of imr 3031 in my BROWNING BLR 450 marlin caliber rifle,
    and the marlin lever action rifles like 45 grains of imr 3031 in a 45/70 with a cast gas check 405 grain bullet
    keep in mind a hard cast gas check bullet like these is already larger and diameter and will penetrate far deeper than most smaller faster expanding bullets will be after hitting a target,
    like for example a 223 rem or 243 win. and theres plenty of examples of those rifles killing deer and hogs.
    I've seen several of the hard cast larger bore bullets shoot clear though deer and hogs lengthwise

    [​IMG]
    now obviously you don,t need a 458 win to hunt, but many guys enjoy hand loading and casting their own bullets and a 45 caliber rifle is ideal for that purpose., and while Jack resisted buying a heavy caliber , rifle for years,
    he bought a ruger 458 falling block a few years ago after he got more familiar with bullet casting and hand loading.
    and hes been very impressed with the rifles effect on the game.


    [​IMG]
    the butt stock cartridge sleeve that holds 8-9 cartridges is almost a mandatory accessory like a sling on most rifles in my opinion
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  9. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member


    Ive gotten several e-mails suggesting that if your only dealing with
    "lions,buffalo,and bears" at point blank or under 30-35 yard ranges,
    a high quality semi auto 12 ga loaded with slugs ,
    loaded with good factory ammo might fill the needs rather well, and Id concur
    as many quality 12 ga handle 2.75" and 3" 12 ga shells and 1 oz and 1.25 oz slugs ,
    example,
    that Benelli M1 super 90 18"-22" barrel 12 gauge semi auto,
    with Brenneke 1 3/8oz maximum barrier penetration hardened slugs.
    \ would be a great option

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    the semi-autos carry 5-8 shells and fire and aim, easily with practice,
    providing the user with both impressive firepower and excellent under 50 yard range accuracy
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  10. Johnatthebox

    Johnatthebox Active Member

    have you ever looked into any of the more recent loads like .375ruger or .416ruger, or for deer the .450bushmaster? Its getting almost exotic to find any of the old school big bore calibers in anything a regular Joe could afford. Ruger has started offering some really affordable rifles in big calibers
     
  11. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I've used my 450 marlin caliber BLR loaded with 405 grain remington bullets,
    over 50 grains of IMR 3031 and a 215 federal primer for almost every local
    hunt so far in florida, or hunting the thick timber/aspen slopes out in colorado,
    yes I tend to hunt thick timber so shots over 150 yards are rather rare!
    Both rifles have proven to be an excellent and consistently accurate choice's.
    I did hunt with a marlin 45/70 for several decades,
    using a 350 grain hard cast gas check bullet, over 45 grains of RL7.
    I sight all my big game rifles in to hit at 3.5" high at 100 yards, obviously, trajectories and velocity differ,
    with different rifles,/ cartridges, but doing that will allow a center chest hold out past 150 yards
    no deer or elk I ever shot laughed it off and either rifle/load always left exit wounds
    you certainly don,t need a 458 win or 458 LOTT, to hunt North America,
    those rifles are more like rifle lunatic toys,
    but either can easily be loaded to the lower hot/45/70,
    or factory 450 marlin performance levels,
    and doing that significantly reduces recoil

    and yeah I've used a 375 H&H and 340 WBY,
    when I expected the potential for shots exceeding 250 yards out in colorado,
    but I've rarely needed the extended range on deer or hogs in Florida.
    I had several guys I hunt with borrow the 45/70 marlin over the years and as a result several guys purchased similar marlin rifles in 45/70.
    a 350 grain hard cast gas check bullet can easily be pushed to 1900fps in a marlin 45/70.
    405 grain
    bullets can be safely pushed to 1900 fps in a 450 marlin BLR
    keep in mind a 350-405 grain 458 caliber bullet pushed to nearly 1900fps,
    (not difficult to do in a 450 marlin caliber BLR, and absurdly easy to do consistently in a 458 WIN or 458 LOTT))
    is very effective on anything your likely to hunt at ranges under about 175 yards,
    if you know big game anatomy and can shoot accurately
    [​IMG]
    Id suggest you keep marlin lever action 45/70 loads at under 28,000 psi
    and BROWNING BLR LOADS under about 40,000 psi ,
    as those levels are WELL PROVEN to be safe enough,
    get stupid pushing the limits and you'll regret it,
    even at those pressure levels your heavy 45 caliber bullets easily zip through and exit full size elk.
    https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

    http://kwk.us/pressures.html


    http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_handgun_and_rifle_cartridges

    https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...99.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf




    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  12. Johnatthebox

    Johnatthebox Active Member

    I was just curious if you'd checked out the ruger loads. The only thing I hunt is hogs, and I use a 12g shotgun with federal slugs. I do want to go with my 7.62x54R next time though...
    Unrelated: Have you seen the McCann industries M1 Garand in .458 win mag? Not made anymore, but sooooo cool....
     
  13. Johnatthebox

    Johnatthebox Active Member

  14. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    that modified 458 win Garand looks like a very interesting and fun toy to own.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  15. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member








    btw 79 grains of varget powder,
    and a 215 federal primer loaded
    under a 400 grain remington or speer bullet in a 458 lott chambered rifle,
    has been repeatedly proven to stop anything, in its tracks,
    that I've shot in north America, and yes its absurd over kill!
    and yeah Ive used it mostly at ranges under 200 yards,
    just for giggle's and a masochistic desire to shoot large caliber rifles,
    , its power is never needed.
    if you want a nice plinking load try 55 grains of IMR 3031 under a hard cast gas check 400 grain bullet
    65 grains of IMR 3031 under a 470 cast gas check bullet is a noticeable upgrade in power in a 458 lott!
    over the 400 grain, yet still a decent load with great power, Its the load ID use if I ever decide to use it again on an elk hunt!
    (just for giggle's and a masochistic desire to shoot large caliber rifles,)
    keep in mind these are devastatingly powerful rifles that are designed to be used at under 120 yards


    https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....llet-mould-number-457671-45-caliber-470-grain

    https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....05-rn-45-caliber-point458-405-grain-flat-nose
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021

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