Tig welding alah Busterrm

Discussion in 'Welding Tips and Welders' started by busterrm, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. busterrm

    busterrm solid fixture here in the forum

    Okay Guys, Indycars said I should post this to the forum. I kinda sorta put this together so Rick will have some knowledge of TIG welding before we assemble his tranny mount for his T Bucket. All the specs, and heat settings are based on his project. But her it is:

    Tig welding alah Busterrm

    Shroud number 5 or 6
    Stick out 5-6 mm
    Argon flow 6-7l/min
    Flow down time 1 sec per 20 amps (also called post flow time after arch has stopped, you let argon flow on the weld to cool it)
    Aluminum AC / Carbon Steel DCEN
    Heat: Buttweld – 90 amps
    Filletweld-110 amps
    Lapjoint/open root- 80 amps
    ADD 5 amps for larger filler rod

    Right handed moves from right to left, torch 20 degrees from vertical.
    Left handed is opposite moving left to right.
    Arc 1 – 1 ½ times electrode size, (1/8 = 1/8-3/32)
    The tungsten is positioned about 1/8-3/32 from the steel. The position can be checked by tapping the tungsten against the work before starting the weld.
    The torch is kept stationary for a few seconds to allow a weld pool to form. The size of the initial weld pool sets up the width of the weld. A large pool will tend to result in a wide weld with a lot of penetration, and a small pool in a narrower weld with less penetration.
    You can see the tip of the tungsten reflected in the weld pool. The arc length can be judged by the distance between the end of the tungsten and the reflection in the pool. As you become more familiar with TIG it becomes easier to judge the arc length by the width and height of the arc itself.
    The filler rod is added to the very front of the weld pool - it is the weld pool that melts the filler rod not the arc. Adding filler rod will cool the weld pool.
    The filler rod is kept low - too high and the arc would ball it back. If the arc length is too long the filler wire will tend to melt back before it reaches the puddle.
    The filler rod is kept under the gas shroud at all times. This keeps it close to the arc to keep it warm and make it easier to melt, and also prevents it from oxidising.
    At the end of the weld the torch is brought back a little and switched off. The torch is held in position until the post flow gas has stopped. The post flow protects the tungsten and the end of the weld pool.
    It's not going to go well at the first attempt - there are so many things going on at the same time that you'll tend to focus on one while the others go astray. It's best to start with getting the arc gap right. After some practice it will become natural and you can focus on the weld pool and adding the filler rod. Once there is a look at how wide the weld pool is and adjust speed of travel to control penetration. Only when all of that is in place will you start to achieve the neat welds that TIG is capable of. TIG is not a easy process, so give yourself some time and practice. When I learned one thing I always kept in mind is, " A tight arc is like a tight family, it always stays together!" In my opinion, a tight arc is the foundation of TIG welding. If your arc is always tight the rest will come with a little practice, so practice using a tight arch, if not anything else do it dry no power or gas. Position your TIG torch and practice smooth consistancy with the torch and then go to power and gas.

    Arc length controls the amount of heat in the weld. TIG is a constant current process (the amps you set on the machine are the amps you get), but increasing the arc length will increase the voltage which in turn puts more heat into the weld.
    Beginners will tend to have their arc length too long for fear of contaminating the tungsten. It should be maintained at between 1 and 1.5 times the diameter of the tungsten.
    Excessive arc length will make the arc difficult to control, and it will also make the tungsten very hot so if you do touch down into the weld pool the tungsten will suck up a fair bit of steel. That is a major frustration for beginners. With a tight arc the tungsten stays cool and touching down hardly even takes the point off the tungsten.
    Butt joints can be either together or maybe a small gap. Keep the arc tight and add the filler to the end of the weld pool. When welding a gap start away from the end move toward the end of the material. Keep your arc tight.
    Fillet joints are similar but more important to keep the arch tight, but adjusting the stick out may be needed. Autogenous(using the parent metals) is a good way to get the feel for the stick out adjustment. But do it on a test piece, autogenous isn’t as strong as using filler metal. Torch is orientated at 45 degree angle.
    Lap joints are almost the same as fillet joints but the angle of the torch is slightly different, 40 deg and pointed at the bottom parent metal to allow heat dissipation. The top parent metal is usually smaller and will not dissipate as much heat as the bottom.
    Outside corner joints The main thing that sets outside corner joints apart from other joints is the poorer gas coverage. There is no steel to bounce the gas off, so the gas sails off past the weld rather than hanging around to protect it. Increased gas flow from 6L/min to 9L/min for this joint and a slightly larger shroud improve gas coverage along the joint. Welding this joint can be done much like a fillet joint, but needs to move a little faster to avoid blowing through the inside corner to corner fitup of the parent metals. Tungsten stick out can be shortened to about 4mm.

    Guys, a final word, this is only meant to be a basic overview. I have been in the welding business since I was 17, now at 52 I wish I had had someone give me a basic idea of each type of welding process we use. Not gonna happen, its not like that, here we are dreamers and home craftsman. Each of us has a project and wish we had the needed skills to do all that is needed to finish. You will never know how much this Ole Cowpoke has learned in the short time on this forum. If any of you need any help with any form of welding, fabricating just give me a holler.
  2. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Bob for the short and concise summary for TIG welding on
    different shapes and sizes!

  3. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    Thank You Bob,
    The tips you gave TIG welding are great. You wrote in a manner that explains fantastic.
    Yes I have a TIG welding job to complete of my own.
    A Competition Engineering 4-,link kit, Pro Magnum Chrome Moly.
    I bought it 1-1/2 years ago. Have to purchase a diagonal link kit and my coil over shocks.
    A friend purchased a new Miller 220 Vac TIG.
    I am sure I will need tips from you yet.
    Well versed MIG welding, AC stick, and can gas weld.
    Never had the chance to try TIG ing.
    For my 1987 Corvette convertible solid axle rear conversion.
    1957 Pontiac-Olds rear diff. Track is same as factory independent rear.

    Grumpy has to do the same .
    Dana 60 rear for him.

  4. busterrm

    busterrm solid fixture here in the forum

    Chromemoly is a animal of different kind in TIG welding. Keep it warm when welding it and don't let it cool too quickly. Depending on the thickness it may even be a good idea to have it cooked(Anealed) in an oven to relieve the stresses welding causes. A lot of rollcages are made with chromemoly tubing and once they finish welding them they cook them to make them stronger. This is done in the NHRA top fuel and funny cars,pro stock, pro stock bikes and in stock car racing also. Pretty much any racing series that has a full roll cages will be using chromemoly. Make sure your TIG wire is the correct compound for the formulation of your material.
  5. busterrm

    busterrm solid fixture here in the forum

    If your well versed in gas welding, some of the same techniques are very similar to TIG. If your well versed in AC stick, I would suggest you get into some DC low hydrogen stick welding, depending on your thickness of chromemoly, TIG is only useful up to about 1/2 " thick. After that you need to use DC low hydrogen stick, most chromemoly is welded with 8018-B2 rod and the same applies, heat before welding and keep it warm the whole time and let it cool slowly.
  6. 87vette81big

    87vette81big Guest

    Thanks Bob.
    Have other projects to complete 1st.
    Family takes time. $ too.
    I have Grumpys Dana 60.
    Will post build for you here later this year.
    Good to share tips and knowledge.
    Many different talents and years of experience in the small group here.

    I will take the time to practice on Ed's TIG .
    I forget the chrome moly alloy of the upper and lower tubes in my CCE Magnum 4-link. Maybe 4130.
    I think the tubes are .095 inch wall thickness. Recall made in Germany silk sceen stenciled on the tubes.
    $400 shipped to me. Frame brackets to weld on are stamped steel. About 3/16inch thick each.
    Coil over shock mounts similar material.
  7. grumpyvette

    grumpyvette Administrator Staff Member

    STEVE/ 72novaproject POSTED THIS ELSE WARE

    TIG welders are cool. I have used mine a lot more than I thought I would. I have even taken in a few side jobs repairing stainless restaurant equipment. However, if I knew now what I didn’t know then, I would have bought a different machine. There’s a lot to learn at first, especially about technique which can actually overcome some features you may or may not have on your welder.

    I bought a Miller Syncrowave 200 about five years ago. I didn’t do a lot of research or shopping because I always by my welders and supplies at my local welding supply. The Syncrowave is a top rated machine and they sold it to me at the lowest price I found on the internet.

    What I was not aware of was High Frequency Adjustment. The Syncrowave is what is referred to as a “square wave” machine. It has AC balance and pulse as well as a high frequency start (preventing the need to scratch start) feature but it runs at a fixed 60 Hz on AC which rattles my brains out while using it. If I had it to do over again I would have bought an “Inverter” machine with adjustable frequency. Most inverters go up to 250 Hz.

    At 60 Hz the arc wants to wonder a bit and makes it hard to do a small fillet weld on thin aluminum. Bringing the frequency up to around 120 Hz helps to focus the arc cone so you can get down into that corner without blowing out the side.

    This is my Syncrowave 200. In 2008 I bought it and a Miller X-Treem plasma cutter plus a Miller Elite auto darkening hood with a few consumables thrown in for around 2,800.00 which included the new bottle of argon, regulators, cart, foot pedal and everything.

    http://store.cyberweld.com/milsyn180sdr ... PAodQVIAnw
    This is the machine I am looking at replacing it with. I figure I can put the Syncrowave on Craig’s List and the difference won’t be that much.

    http://www.discountwelders-direct.com/E ... rTig-200dx

    Here is a great web site that sends out a weekly video about welding with a lot of focus on TIG. You will have to dig around on YouTube to find much about high frequency AC and how it affects the weld performance but it is worth looking in too.

    http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/tig ... -prop.html
    Here is a link to a demonstration of High Frequency.

    Something to consider,

  8. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  9. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    yes you need leather gloves and a decent quality auto darkening helmet
    yes I prefer oxy acetylene torch welding and TIG welders
    both are rather similar in that you use a separate heat source
    that you can control and direct and go back over previous welded areas,
    without adding more filler metal, or you can add more as required,
    and you use a separate filler metal rod

  10. labdad

    labdad Member

    I have some time on my new TIG machine, the PrimeWeld225x. Having used nothing but my old transformer Lincoln Square Wave, I am kicking myself for not changing to an inverter much earlier. Having more control and the ability to automatically pulse, use both 2T and 4T, etc., not to mention the money I am saving on argon with the adjustable pre/post purge, is very nice. Just added a 20 series water cooled torch and chiller, so all set. Life is good.
  11. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    yes Having a water cooled TIG welding torch is REALLY a great option,
    anyone whos done much TIG welding with a tig torch thats not liquid cooled
    knows how fast those TIG torch's tends to heat up,
    personally I'm not a big fan of the foot control on a TIG welder,
    but its certainly something you learn to work with.

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