" GRUMPYVETTE? I ran Cloyes chain 12,000 miles on the street and decided to change cams, I was amazed at how much it had stretched in that little time,any ideas"
a basic timing chain set like this from cloyes works great in most SBC applications
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-9-1100/
FIRST GEN, SBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1100/overview/
MARK IV BBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET 1965-90
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-c-3024x/overview/
MARK VI BBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET 1991-95
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...-specific/engine-family/chevy-big-block-gen-v
ALL TIMING CHAINS STRETCH OVER TIME, the BETTER/MORE EXPENSIVE ONES TEND TOO LAST FAR LONGER, and PROPER LUBRICATION HELPS THEM LAST LONGER, but theres a HUGE difference in quality between import brands and some of the better domestic brands and every name brand has CHEAP entry level timing sets that are most likely cheap import clones, not the original high quality parts so you need to research what your buying, its obvious that a $20 timing set musty be significantly different from a $120 set, so you need to ask WHATS THE DIFFERENCE it helps to put the timing chain in assembly lube with moly and marvel mystery oil mixed together and heat it all up in a pan,its just a time proven method of insuring all the metal surfaces are bathed in hot oil that will seep into all the micro surface irregularities and form a protective film before the engine reaches operational temperatures and before there significant oil flow thru the engine, insuring a slightly improve lubrication during that first critical engine start-up process, its not mandatory, but every thing you can do to reduce wear helps
IF YOU HAVE A LINE HONED BLOCK< CALL CLOYES AND REQUEST THE NUMBER OF THE MATCHING TIMING SET WITH THE SHORTER CENTER TO CENTER DISTANCE
ON CLOYES SETS the SHORTER CHAINS used ON LINE HONED BLOCKS ,GENERALLY HAVE A PART NUMBER ENDING IN EITHER -5 or _10 INDICATING A .005 or .0010 TIGHTER timing set
THERE ARE TIMING CHAIN TENSION-ER KITS AVAILABLE
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/S-B-Chevy ... ,3229.html
http://www.spottsperformance.com/Timing sets (pontiac)
http://www.cloyes.com/Portals/10/TechTi ... ral%29.pdf
http://www.cloyes.com/pdf/Cloyes_2010_HP_All_Apps.pdf
drilling the pass side oil passage plug with a 1/32" bit so oil constantly sprays on the timing gears helps extend chain and gear life.
BTW one little trick you might want to know is placing a timing set in a pot covered with a mix of moly assembly lube about 15%-20% and marvel mystery oil about 80%, add a cooking thermometer and heat to about 230 degrees on a stove , stir it with a metal fork slightly to remove air and let it cool slowly before installing it, this tends to get the lube into the rollers and reduce wear.
its also a real good idea to drill the pass side oil plug under the timing cover with a .036-.040 drill so oil constantly sprays on the timing chain during use,and while IM discussing cam timing sets Id say that about 90% of the time a good CLOYES timing chain set should be used on street cars vs a gear drive if that's one option your thinking about.
theres a BIG difference in quality between the entry level and good quality parts made/ sold by cloyes
Ive occasionally been asked what you can do too reduce the slack in the timing chain if your blocks been line honed,
to straiten the main bearings and that resulted in a slightly closer crank to cam center-line distance,
that results in a slightly increased slack in the stock timing chain sets.
a negligible amount of metal is generally removed from the main bearing saddles in the block, they usually try very hard to minimize that, metal removal so standard parts still fit,during a line hone , but they do sell slightly tighter timing chain sets to correct excess slack if that's required.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3100-5
Timing Chain and Gear Set, Original True Roller, Double Roller, -0.005 in., Iron/Steel Sprockets, Chevy, Small Block, Set
for line honed blocks where the crank is .005 closer to the cam
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3100-10
for line honed blocks where the crank is .010 closer to the cam
Timing Chain and Gear Set, Original True Roller, Double Roller, -0.010 in., Iron/Steel Sprockets, Chevy, Small Block, Set
related info
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ped-nose-cam-in-early-block.14182/#post-71937
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-drive-details.3809/#post-16765
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hanics-of-adv-ret-a-camshaft.4532/#post-12048
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/#post-114
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-spacer-buttons.1793/#post-4553
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/chain-vs-gear-drive-cam.781/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-C3023/ ($17)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-9-3145/Application/?query=Year|1999&prefilter=1
($92)
WATCH VIDEO
the Cloyes 9-3649X3-5. Single roller with billet crank gear for the newer single roller BIG BLOCK CHEVY MARK V- and ESPECIALLY MARK VI with plastic timing cover engines that won,t allow use of the older thicker dual roller chain timing sets.
RELATED INFO
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1793&p=4553#p4553
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-C-3023X/ ($21)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-9-3100A/?rtype=10 ($130)
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4548&p=12128#p12128
probably 90% of the timing sets being installed are installed with the crank gear flush with the shoulder on the crank snout and with never a single thought being given to proper alignment being an issue, and with thousands of those engines making well over 100K miles before the timing chains replaced, that doesn,t mean they are correctly aligned it just indicates that the basic design is rather forgiving as to the conditions it will continue to function in without causing major problems AND THAT in most cases the manufacturing tolerances are close enough to correct to have few issues with wear. but Id also point out that most engines are not running at near their full power potential and most engines have basic flaws costing them both some horse-power and durability problems
Chevy for years used NYLON gear teeth on aluminum gears, its not like they were concerned with getting the alignment correct to the last possible 2-5 thousands of an inch, they designed the timing sets to be easy to install and reasonably durable and run QUIETLY , and yes they eventually realized that was a HUGE mistake! but in this thread we are dealing with building an engine correctly, to gain all potential hp, and enhance durability here, not in merely allowing it to run once assembled,
btw if your curious as too the reference to PLASTIC timing gears, they DO cause problems and should be replaced, because not only will the chain stretch and slip eventually, the nylon debris will clog the oil pump pick-up over time, remember the oil pump pick-up would need to allow the nylon trash to go through the gears and into the oil pump, main cap and only then enter the oil filter.
TRUE DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN SETS FROM QUALITY MANUFACTURERS TEND TO BE MORE DURABLE
the double roller cloyes timing chains tend to last longer before they wear and have excess slack
and they can be used with the stock O.E.M timing chain cover
btw the multi part timing chain covers that allow a faster cam change are available at a not much increased price for some 1966-1990 BBC applications,
obviously youll want to ask questions and get the correct matched components for your application.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-312/overview/
and sbc
$265
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-310
TRUE DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN SETS FROM QUALITY MANUFACTURERS TEND TO BE MORE DURABLE
ON CLOYES SETS the SHORTER CHAINS GENERALLY HAVE A PART NUMBER ENDING IN EITHER -% or _10 INDICATING A .005 or .0010 TIGHTER timing set
yes there is a good reason to avoid those cheap import timing chain sets that auto parts stores frequently sell for under $30.........heres one with less than an hours of run time
AS a general rule LINK BELT style timing chains and gears are noticeably LESS DURABLE than CLOYES TRUE ROLLER DESIGNS
a basic timing chain set like this from cloyes works great in most SBC applications
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-9-1100/
FIRST GEN, SBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1100/overview/
MARK IV BBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET 1965-90
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-c-3024x/overview/
MARK VI BBC CLOYES ROLLER TIMING SET 1991-95
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...-specific/engine-family/chevy-big-block-gen-v
ALL TIMING CHAINS STRETCH OVER TIME, the BETTER/MORE EXPENSIVE ONES TEND TOO LAST FAR LONGER, and PROPER LUBRICATION HELPS THEM LAST LONGER, but theres a HUGE difference in quality between import brands and some of the better domestic brands and every name brand has CHEAP entry level timing sets that are most likely cheap import clones, not the original high quality parts so you need to research what your buying, its obvious that a $20 timing set musty be significantly different from a $120 set, so you need to ask WHATS THE DIFFERENCE it helps to put the timing chain in assembly lube with moly and marvel mystery oil mixed together and heat it all up in a pan,its just a time proven method of insuring all the metal surfaces are bathed in hot oil that will seep into all the micro surface irregularities and form a protective film before the engine reaches operational temperatures and before there significant oil flow thru the engine, insuring a slightly improve lubrication during that first critical engine start-up process, its not mandatory, but every thing you can do to reduce wear helps
IF YOU HAVE A LINE HONED BLOCK< CALL CLOYES AND REQUEST THE NUMBER OF THE MATCHING TIMING SET WITH THE SHORTER CENTER TO CENTER DISTANCE
ON CLOYES SETS the SHORTER CHAINS used ON LINE HONED BLOCKS ,GENERALLY HAVE A PART NUMBER ENDING IN EITHER -5 or _10 INDICATING A .005 or .0010 TIGHTER timing set
THERE ARE TIMING CHAIN TENSION-ER KITS AVAILABLE
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/S-B-Chevy ... ,3229.html
http://www.spottsperformance.com/Timing sets (pontiac)
http://www.cloyes.com/Portals/10/TechTi ... ral%29.pdf
http://www.cloyes.com/pdf/Cloyes_2010_HP_All_Apps.pdf
drilling the pass side oil passage plug with a 1/32" bit so oil constantly sprays on the timing gears helps extend chain and gear life.
BTW one little trick you might want to know is placing a timing set in a pot covered with a mix of moly assembly lube about 15%-20% and marvel mystery oil about 80%, add a cooking thermometer and heat to about 230 degrees on a stove , stir it with a metal fork slightly to remove air and let it cool slowly before installing it, this tends to get the lube into the rollers and reduce wear.
its also a real good idea to drill the pass side oil plug under the timing cover with a .036-.040 drill so oil constantly sprays on the timing chain during use,and while IM discussing cam timing sets Id say that about 90% of the time a good CLOYES timing chain set should be used on street cars vs a gear drive if that's one option your thinking about.
theres a BIG difference in quality between the entry level and good quality parts made/ sold by cloyes
Ive occasionally been asked what you can do too reduce the slack in the timing chain if your blocks been line honed,
to straiten the main bearings and that resulted in a slightly closer crank to cam center-line distance,
that results in a slightly increased slack in the stock timing chain sets.
a negligible amount of metal is generally removed from the main bearing saddles in the block, they usually try very hard to minimize that, metal removal so standard parts still fit,during a line hone , but they do sell slightly tighter timing chain sets to correct excess slack if that's required.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3100-5
Timing Chain and Gear Set, Original True Roller, Double Roller, -0.005 in., Iron/Steel Sprockets, Chevy, Small Block, Set
for line honed blocks where the crank is .005 closer to the cam
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3100-10
for line honed blocks where the crank is .010 closer to the cam
Timing Chain and Gear Set, Original True Roller, Double Roller, -0.010 in., Iron/Steel Sprockets, Chevy, Small Block, Set
related info
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ped-nose-cam-in-early-block.14182/#post-71937
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-drive-details.3809/#post-16765
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...hanics-of-adv-ret-a-camshaft.4532/#post-12048
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-get-it-to-last-cam-install-info.90/#post-114
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-spacer-buttons.1793/#post-4553
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/chain-vs-gear-drive-cam.781/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-C3023/ ($17)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-9-3145/Application/?query=Year|1999&prefilter=1
($92)
WATCH VIDEO
the Cloyes 9-3649X3-5. Single roller with billet crank gear for the newer single roller BIG BLOCK CHEVY MARK V- and ESPECIALLY MARK VI with plastic timing cover engines that won,t allow use of the older thicker dual roller chain timing sets.
RELATED INFO
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1793&p=4553#p4553
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-C-3023X/ ($21)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-9-3100A/?rtype=10 ($130)
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4548&p=12128#p12128
probably 90% of the timing sets being installed are installed with the crank gear flush with the shoulder on the crank snout and with never a single thought being given to proper alignment being an issue, and with thousands of those engines making well over 100K miles before the timing chains replaced, that doesn,t mean they are correctly aligned it just indicates that the basic design is rather forgiving as to the conditions it will continue to function in without causing major problems AND THAT in most cases the manufacturing tolerances are close enough to correct to have few issues with wear. but Id also point out that most engines are not running at near their full power potential and most engines have basic flaws costing them both some horse-power and durability problems
Chevy for years used NYLON gear teeth on aluminum gears, its not like they were concerned with getting the alignment correct to the last possible 2-5 thousands of an inch, they designed the timing sets to be easy to install and reasonably durable and run QUIETLY , and yes they eventually realized that was a HUGE mistake! but in this thread we are dealing with building an engine correctly, to gain all potential hp, and enhance durability here, not in merely allowing it to run once assembled,
btw if your curious as too the reference to PLASTIC timing gears, they DO cause problems and should be replaced, because not only will the chain stretch and slip eventually, the nylon debris will clog the oil pump pick-up over time, remember the oil pump pick-up would need to allow the nylon trash to go through the gears and into the oil pump, main cap and only then enter the oil filter.
TRUE DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN SETS FROM QUALITY MANUFACTURERS TEND TO BE MORE DURABLE
the double roller cloyes timing chains tend to last longer before they wear and have excess slack
and they can be used with the stock O.E.M timing chain cover
btw the multi part timing chain covers that allow a faster cam change are available at a not much increased price for some 1966-1990 BBC applications,
obviously youll want to ask questions and get the correct matched components for your application.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-312/overview/
and sbc
$265
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-310
TRUE DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN SETS FROM QUALITY MANUFACTURERS TEND TO BE MORE DURABLE
ON CLOYES SETS the SHORTER CHAINS GENERALLY HAVE A PART NUMBER ENDING IN EITHER -% or _10 INDICATING A .005 or .0010 TIGHTER timing set
yes there is a good reason to avoid those cheap import timing chain sets that auto parts stores frequently sell for under $30.........heres one with less than an hours of run time
AS a general rule LINK BELT style timing chains and gears are noticeably LESS DURABLE than CLOYES TRUE ROLLER DESIGNS
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