tips on mig welding

Discussion in 'Welding Tips and Welders' started by Grumpy, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I found this posted else ware but its seems to cover a good deal of info rather well.

    "Basics of Basics" MIG welding
    By Brian Martin

    MIG Welding Basics

    Let me start with safety, DO NOT SKIP, YOU NEED TO READ THIS. The UV rays that are produced at the weld can and will cause damage to your eyes you know that. But did you know that it WILL damage to your skin as well? I have gotten "sun burn" from welding. I have only "peeled" from regular sunburn a few times in my life (I have a dark Portuguese complexion) I have peeled from MIG welding more! This was a long time ago, I would never let that happen again. Wear a light long sleeve cotton shirt at the very least. Or better yet a welding jacket can be bought for only about $25.00 or $30.00. You want jeans and high top boots on too. Wear welding gloves, go down to the local auto parts or hardware store and get yourself some nice SOFT gloves. Some are made so stiff that it is hard to work in them. I got some at ACE hardware that are dang near sensual ?. Get a good helmet, I have a Cherokee ( ) that is only about $90.00. It is a hands free helmet that you open the shaded lens with your chin! I have had it for about 15 years without a problem. When open it gives you a full 4x5-inch or so CLEAR lens, unlike the "self darkening" helmets that are always shaded. You can flip up the lens and grind anytime you want. I want the full control of when to see through a shade or not. I highly recommend this helmet. Also, another thing that I have only begun using a year or so ago (I hate thinking about how long I didn't use it) a welding respirator. A 3M NOISH approved are available at ACE hardware for about $18.00. If you are welding with weld-thru or "E" coat primer you are making ZINC FUMES! And can get "zinc fume fever" VERY easily. Even when welding clean metal, you are still making fumes that are hazardous. Be sure the respirator fits under your helmet. The Cherokee helmet for instance doesn't have room for a cartridge mask so a single throwaway is all that will work. HEAR ME NOW BELIEVE ME LATER, PROTECT YOURSELF. Even if you don't care about the protection because you are such a bad-a$$, do it because you will produce a better weld. It is hard to lay a nice bead when you have a hot molten ball of steel in your shoe or pants.
    I would like to start with this "disclaimer". These are tips in welding in the real world by real human beings that are not pro welders. A pro welding under controlled conditions would possibly disagree with some things here. That is fine if you get other input to better your skills, this is for basic understanding of MIG welding in the real world.

    MIG welding is actually just a "controlled short". It is a short just like if you touch your two battery cables together on your car and it sparks. The MIG does the same thing, you just are in control of it. You are melting the metal with heat created by this "short".

    Basic principles of MIG welding are this: You have VOLTAGE, the pressure that pushes electrons through a circuit. Then CURRENT, (same as amperage) the amount of electrons being pushed. And RESISTANCE this restricts electrons from flowing. The gas (Argon, CO2, or a mixture of both 75-25% is most common) is blowing away the impurities in the air around and on the surface of the weld. If there is a breeze you may need to up the pressure from the recommended 25-30 cubic feet per minute or 3-4 PSI.

    What the heck does this mean?

    The arc that is formed when the wire comes out of the gun and hits the metal is your "CIRCUIT" (or current path), The welder has to have enough voltage to keep the current flowing. You control these variables with the "heat" switch (VOLTAGE) the wire speed knob (CURRENT) and the "stick-out" and or "arc length" (RESISTANCE).

    The MIG welder has to be "tuned" just like a spray gun or your carburetor on you car. That perfect balance between too hot a weld (blowing holes) and too cold a weld (not enough penetration) is where you want to be. Fortunately this balance is pretty wide for at least "normal" welding on your car.

    "Hot" or "Cold" weld. I will refer to welds in this way to describe them. Extreme "Hot" would be heavy melting, puddling, burning holes. Extreme "Cold" or "Cool" would be not enough melting thus not enough penetration.

    To find this balance, get a piece of scrape metal that is the same thickness as the metal you will be welding (or very close to it). Clamp your ground clamp to it and lay a bead on it. Start the bead with the MIG set at the recommended settings on your welder. You don't have to lay a bead to be proud of here, just weld. If you have someone to help this can be a big help, but if you don't go it alone, you'll need to learn to do it someday anyway. While you are laying a bead have your partner turn the wire speed (CURRENT) up and or down till you hear that perfect ZGHZGHZGHZGHZGHZGHZ and you will see in the bead that it is perfect. The weld will be laying out relatively flat with no "undercut" (at the edge of the weld there isn't a low spot where the weld has burned away the metal and not replaced it with melted wire). If your wire speed it too slow there will be gaps in sound then pops. Watch the weld and see if the weld is "crawling" up the wire, that is a dead give away speed is too slow. If it is too fast, it have faster pops as the wire is burning away and quickly hitting the metal arcing again. These sounds can be very subtle so it may take a while to learn the sound, have patience.

    Now if you have to do this alone, just hold the gun one of your hands and have the other on the wire control, it is very awkward at first but you will be able to do it well in no time.

    I have to clear up an "old husbands tale" about the sound of the weld. I have heard and read many times that your weld should sound like "bacon frying". Let me tell you right now, if your welds sound like bacon frying, you are laying some crappy welds! It should sound more like an electric buzzer "ZGHZGHZGHZGHZGHZGHZGZHZGH". If it sounds like bacon frying "ZGHZZ-POP-ZHZGHZ-POP-CRACKLE-ZHZGZ" You are doing something wrong.

    So, what does this technical stuff about voltage and current have to do with learning to weld? Well if you understand WHAT is happening, it is easier to MAKE happen what you want.

    If you are welding a little too "hot" and are blowing holes, you could adjust this simply by creating more RESISTANCE by lengthening the "stick-out" or distance that you are holding the tip of the gun from the surface being welded. So as you weld a bead, if you see the weld puddling too much and fear that it may blow through, you can back the tip off the metal a little and create more resistance. If you are welding thin metal you can start with a longer stick-out and produce a "cooler" weld also. Now, this has to be done with caution because if you rise up too much, the gas does not shield the weld leaving the weld porous.

    The direction of travel and speed WILL also effect the "heat" of the weld. If you use the "drag" technique with the gun dragging away from the weld, it will be "cooler". If you are using the "push" technique with the gun pushing into the weld it will produce a "hotter" weld. So, if you were to start on the left side of a seam and with the gun leaning to the right at 45 degrees welding from left to right, this would be "dragging". If you were to start on the right side of the seam with the gun leaning to the right as before and welding left, to the left side of the panel, that would be "pushing" the weld. I find that when welding sheet metal if there is a burning through problem, changing to the pull technique will do the job most of the time.

    Of course speed is obvious, the slower you go the hotter and flatter the weld. The faster you go the taller and cooler the weld. All of these techniques can be used with one and other through out even one seam (though you wouldn't likely change from push to pull or vice-versa) to control the weld. Ideally you would have the weld set up and cleaned so you wouldn't have to do this, but realistically you do have to change gun distance speed as you weld.

    The first BIG tip I can give is to have a nice pair of angle wire cutters beside you at all times. You will want to cut the wire off at the proper length EVERY time you start a weld. This does two things, first of all it gives you the "stick-out" that you want every time. Second, it will give you a sharp tip to "pierce" the metal or weld-thru primer. Third, that little ball of metal on the end of your wire, it is oxidation! That is right, if you leave it there, you are pushing RUST into your nice new weld! I learned this tip from a certified pro welder (underwater even) and it totally changed the way I weld.

    The second BIG tip is to have everything CLEAN and set up TIGHT for the weld. Like with painting, the preparation is KEY. Even the slightest grease, tar, paint, rust, etc. can cause BIG problems. As a rule the smaller lower the voltage your welder, the more critical this is. Clamp the pieces TIGHT, and keep the metal clean at least one inch from the weld with two or three inches preferably.

    So lets weld a "lap" weld where a piece of sheet metal is laying over another and you will be welding the top piece to the one laying under it. I find that a pull technique with the gun at a 45 degree angle and pointing right straight at the seam the most effective. But the thing is, the upper sheet will burn MUCH easier than the bottom. The edge of that sheet has much less of a "heat sink" effect than bottom sheet. Sort of like starting to burn that log in your fireplace, if you start on the edge where it is thin it will start burning MUCH easier than if you started right in the middle right? Well, when you are welding this lap weld you want to start the weld on the bottom piece and even concentrate the weld on the bottom.
    This may sound funny but if you get a piece of paper and fold it so you have a "lap" seam you can see what I am going to tell you. Hold this seam flat with a few pieces of tape but leave it exposed so you can "weld" it with some white glue. Lay a bead of glue on the bottom paper right next to the edge of the upper paper just as I described above. When you get real close to the upper paper edge you will see the glue sort of "grab" on to the edge. You don't even have to move the bead all they way over to it, if you are very close and you just barely hit it with the glue, it will "hang on" to it. Continuing the bead down the edge with most of it laying on the bottom sheet, the edge of the bead will "grab" the edge of the paper, without any effort on your part.

    Your weld bead will do the same thing. When you are concentrating on the bottom, harder to melt metal just move the bead over to touch the edge of the top metal and it will "grab on" to it. You can run the bead with most of the heat being directed on the bottom and just "grabbing" the top without blowing it away.

    This goes for plug welding too. The size of the hole depends of a few factors, usually 5/16" is the norm. But sometimes you could go down to 3/16" or up to 3/8" depending on the thickness of the metal or how important the strength of the weld is. That sounds funny but if you are welding in a "backing" for a butt weld for instance, it is only being plug welded to hold it there till you lay the bead into it while welding the two adjacent pieces together. As before with lap welding you want to direct the weld into the "bottom" of the hole to hit the bottom piece of metal first, then melting it into the surrounding metal just like the lap weld. If you have perfectly prepared plug welds, you should easily be able to fill the hole with weld leaving the top almost flat. If you are ending up with a large hump, you need to raise your voltage, or wire speed to weld "hotter". Weld a number of tests before going on to your car. Weld as hot as you can without burning through and look under the panel to see your penetration If the weld is coming through the bottom producing a hump under it, the weld is too "hot". Either speed up, lengthen the arc or stick-out or lower voltage.

    Hope this helps you produce better welds.

    "Basics of Basics" Inverted MIG welding
    By Brian Martin

    Did I say welding UPSIDE DOWN? Boy I'll bet that got your attention. Really, these tips are for all welding done with the MIG. In fact, there really is no difference in welding upside down or laying flat, it is all in the mind where the difficulties come from. I have to say that I use to cringe when I saw that I had an inverted weld to do. Then all that changed I took the ICAR (a nation wide organization for standardizing repairs) welding test. It included two each of a plug weld (where you weld through a hole to the sheet below) and a "bead" weld. Both had to be done in a horizontal, vertical and inverted. That inverted was the only one I was worried about. Well I knew I would have to practice a LOT. The funny thing is I found the answer not so much in practice, but in studying HOW a MIG works (this can be found in my "Basics" of MIG welding) and I found out how important clean metal was. Don't get me wrong, the practice did it for me, however the understanding of how the MIG worked helped me more than anything. I had a basic idea how the thing worked, I mean come on, it is a direct short where a wire coming out of the gun melts into the metal because of resistance. I studied the science as well as the art of welding, so I really got a grasp on what exactly the wire speed did and what exactly the voltage did. For the first time I understood what was happening when that wire hit the metal. On the first official practice, I set up the work area just like it would be at the test site. I took sheet metal "coupons" about the size of a playing card, punched holes in a few for plug welds and started welding. The thing I noticed right off was that it really wasn't that hard, why? I was welding really nice welds including the inverted. These welds were much nicer than I do at work. It hit me that the reason was, I was sitting properly and the metal was clean. That was it, that was the magic. By the time I practiced a few hours and took the test I was welding like I never had before. I now prepare cars the same way I did those coupons, SPOTLESSLY clean. Now I weld the same way on my repairs.

    The thing is, there is a point where you can simply pull the trigger and you will weld. No burning holes (to speak of) no dripping molten metal, no popping and flying fireballs, you just weld. I have gotten so that I can weld "blind" with only the "buzz" as a guide. I trigger the gun with my thumb, index finger, left hand right hand, it really has changed things with me.

    Without the thorough understanding of how the MIG works one can not properly "tune" it. Creating the balance between voltage and wire speed is the key. With the proper balance, you literally point the wire where you want it and pull the trigger. It WILL weld perfectly (providing the metal is clean). With the proper balance you can hold the gun up against the metal without even moving it at all, pull the trigger and just...hold it welding away. The wire will feed into the molten metal at just the correct rate. The weld will not blow through because the wire melting into it will "keep up" with the rate of the melting and cooling (solidifying) metal.

    However, the first thing is GET THE METAL CLEAN and the pieces fitting tight. Nothing but nothing will aid more in welding inverted than clean metal and a tight fit. Of course it should be no cleaner than all your other weld areas, but if you are going to need it, its' here. When I say clean, I mean bare metal. Not even traces of paint or primer should remain. This includes the BACK of the metal that you will be welding. That's right, the back of the metal. Remember, the metal is going to be melting when you weld, right? Well, when the metal melts as it is welded it will bring into the molten area the impurities from the other side of the metal. THIS CLEANING IS VERY IMPORTANT. Don't use a grinder to strip the metal. It takes off too much metal. Use something like a 3M "Roloc" disc (#07485) or a "Clean and strip" disc (#07466) In hard to reach areas I do use a cut off wheel or carbide bit. But this is a last resort and only used because there is no other way. Just don't cut too much metal off. On a long "pinch weld" for instance, you should have the entire length BARE METAL (with only weld thru if it is going to he between two sheets). Not just where you will be welding, but the whole area where metal will mate. I say this because if you start "cheating" and only striping right were you are welding, you will soon get into a situation where you are welding up to that dirty metal and WHAM you have a contamination problem. So, if you clean it ALL you will never have a problem.
    Yes there are some times when you leave primer there, but only when you KNOW what it is. What I am referring here is "weld thru" primer. This could be an existing primer found on the new parts you bought in the form of an "E" coat. Or one that is specifically made for this purpose. "Weld thru" primers come in aerosol cans (3M # 05913) and brush on. They are made by a number of manufactures. They should be lightly applied over the metal after it has been THOROUGHLY cleaned as described previously. Put a light coat, some are even transparent so don't think it has to cover like regular primer you would paint over. It is simply a zinc coating similar to galvanizing. So look at it like an at home galvanizing job. Look at a piece of galvanized metal like chain link fence, you can see right through the coating to the metal. It should be totally dried by the time you weld. If it has any unflashed solvent it will burn and your welding will be negatively effected.
    The "E" coat primer (the "E" stands for "electrically" applied and obviously NOT something you would do at home) is also zinc rich and is a "weld through" primer. When I install new parts, I don't remove ANY of this primer. I punch holes through it for plug welding. I weld to it, through it, whatever. It is a perfect weld thru primer. And please, when welding the weld thru primers wear a welding respirator (3M #07187). They are zinc rich remember and the fumes are VERY harmful. The factory "E" coat may be in black, gray, green, and other colors. To be sure you have a real "E" coat rub it with a lacquer thinner soaked rag. If it comes off, it is NOT an "E" coat. If it does rub off on the rag, strip it like you would any paint or primer around a welded area and coat it with "weld thru" primer.
    Weld thru primer does not have good adhesion properties (E coat has excellent adhesion properties). It is only to be used where metal will be over lapping and hidden. All other areas just leave bare metal until after welding and then treat them the same as you would any bare metal on your car. By the way, after welding the "ROLOC" or "Clean and strip" discs also work very well in cleaning the welded areas of discoloration and any welding residue. This is very important, that welding residue is a poor substrate for your undercoats. The "ROLOC" discs will actually cut metal, so you can use them to "grind" down any slightly high weld too. They work nice and leave a gentle, rounded surface. If you have a particularly large amount of metal to grind, go ahead and do so with a grinder and then before you get close to the base metal change to a ROLOC and finish it off. They really leave a nice look.

    DON'T use a liquid "metal conditioner" on these welded areas, use an etch primer and or epoxy instead. The liquid "metal conditioner" is not recommended by any auto body or welding organizations because it can get trapped in between the layers of metal. This however is a whole different topic, I just wanted to mention it.

    Okay, you have nice clean metal to weld, now be sure it is fit tight. The metal should be laying nice and flat on the lower piece. If it is not, you have to make it fit. This can be done with clamping and or tapping on the edges and reforming them with your hammers or other tools. Sometimes this is a problem because the metal springs back up after you have struck it down (or up in the case of inverted welds). If this is the case one way you can do it is to put a little tack weld and then tap on the surrounding area. The fact that it is tacked will hold the metal where you want it. It will then bend instead of bouncing back. After you have the metal laying nice and tight and clean, you can then put all your thoughts in welding. Instead of fighting contamination or poor gaps, you can just simply weld. That is one step in getting nice welds and being able to do those elusive inverted ones.

    I have to reiterate (from "basics of MIG welding) trimming off the wire to the proper length before every weld, I mean every weld. I just today finished up the insulation of a rocker panel on a full size van. There was about 50 inverted welds. I paid particular attention to the wire cutting trick. I just went about my welding, sometimes trimming the wire, sometimes not. There was a very noticeable difference when the wire was cut or not. The cut wire provided a faster initial arc, every time. It didn't matter whether it was on bare metal, weld thru primer I had applied or the "E" coat. This is very important, you want the arc to start as soon as possible. Especially on a plug weld (where you are welding through a hole, usually 5/16"), you need that arc to start so you get good penetration. If you hit the metal with the wire and it doesn't arc fast enough you will then pile up weld in the hole before the weld can heat up and melt into the base metal. This of course can happen with any weld that is small. If you are laying a six inch long bead, it is not so critical. However, if your weld is like a plug weld or a short tack and you don't get that initial arc to start melting the metal. This is very important if you are doing a series of welds down a seam for instance. You may be welding little half-inch welds to keep the heat (warpage) down. Well, if you don't get a good, fast arc you may not have very good welds. They may look decent but there will actually be only melted wire sitting on top of the metal. Their penetration may not be sufficient and you can't tell because the weld is laying on top of the metal. You may grind it down flat and never see that the seam is still there.

    Okay, we have established that you should weld to get a fast arc. One way to help is with more voltage. If you hit that metal with a hot sharp wire, it will start welding right NOW. One of the reasons inverted welding can be a bare is if you are popping and cracking and not getting the darn weld going. Plus if it is hot and fast you get the weld done, and get out of there. This means less time to get "extra" molten metal falling on your chest. The hot, fast weld also lays flatter. If you are welding hot and fast, the wire is running into the molten metal instead of laying on top ready to fall because you have poor penetration.

    Always set the welders voltage and wire speed at the setting for the thickest metal you are welding. In other words, if you are welding a 22 gauge piece of metal to an 18 gauge piece you would set the welder up to weld the thicker 18 gauge. As pointed out in the first "Basics of Basics- MIG welding" you want to direct the weld on the thicker metal when you are welding too different thickness. You start the weld on the thicker piece and then when you have a good arc started and the weld is molten on the thicker piece you move the weld over to "grab" the thinner metal. This is particularly important when you are making a small weld like a "plug" weld. If you are plug welding a 22 gauge metal to an 18 gauge (a hole is drilled or punched in the 22 gauge and you are welding through it) you REALLY need to get that weld started hot and fast. You need to start the weld right in the middle of the hole on the underlying 18 gauge and get a good arc. Once you are melting that 18 gauge you simply move the weld over to the edge of the hole and it will grab the 22 gauge and you can weld a nice flat weld.

    Now, If you are butt welding tow different thickness of metals you need to target the thicker one for the first arc. However if you are lap welding two different thickness metals you may still want to strike the first arc on the underlying "base" metal even though it is the thinner of the two. The reason being striking the arc on the center of the thin metal STILL may take more time to get the established than the edge of the thicker one. That is an example of how much harder it is to establish the arc on the center of metal as opposed to the edge. The edge will start melting long before the center will.

    Note: I refer to the "base" metal as the metal that is usually under another piece. I am not sure if this would be a common term, it just makes sense to me to call it this. If for instance you were welding a patch over the floor in your car. The old floor that the patch was laying on would be the "base". While the patch would be the "overlaying" metal in my descriptions. The "base" is metal that you are NOT welding at the edge. I needed to make some way of describing the metal that is NOT being welded on the edge and came up with the "base" as a name.

    Whenever you are welding a lap weld you have to use the same procedure. The plug weld would be a lap weld. You are welding on the flat of a piece of metal up to the edge of another piece. The edge is going to melt much faster than a weld you are starting in the center of a piece right? Well, you have to get that arc started hot and fast on the "base" piece and then move over to the edge of the other piece. If you start right at the edge where you "really" want the weld to be you will likely burn the edge and blow it away before the bottom "base" metal ever gets molten.

    If after you hit the trigger and the arc is established you start to blow a hole or the surrounding metal starts to melt too fast, let off the trigger. Then, just as the metal starts to cool and solidify hit the trigger again. This is sometimes called "popping", you "pop" with the trigger over and over as you fill a hole. The molten steel solidifies in the second that the trigger is off and then you hit the trigger again and it arcs real fast because the metal is so hot. But it has cooled and solidified enough that it forms a stable base to continue
    the weld.

    Learn to work with gravity.

    I am sure you have learned that molten metal will run down. It will not run up or sideways, so you are one up on it already. If you know where it the molten metal "wants" to go, use it to your advantage. It is like using a long wrench over a short one, you can take advantage of the science of leverage or you can fight it, it is up to you. When welding a vertical weld you start at the top and go down. This way you keep the weld arc ahead of the molten metal. The molten metal will start to solidify staying in place behind the weld arc as you go. If you were to start at the bottom and go up, the molten metal would hang off the bottom of the weld arc. It will at the very least make for an ugly, lumpy weld, or at the worse cause the molten metal to fall right off the weld arc. You can "fool" gravity and go up that vertical weld however you will find that you will work with the gravity most of the time.
    This fact that molten metal will want to flow down is the reason you need your arc to start hot and fast. You need to "push" the molten metal into the weld when you are welding inverted. The arc has to be established fast on the base metal with the MIG tuned well. At that point you have the luxury of making a nice molten puddle that will not fall. Only then do you move "it" over to the edge of the overlying metal. This will produce proper penetration, which of course is the main objective. The weld needs to be well established in the base metal first, then only a little on the edge of the overlying metal is needed.
    The rule on penetration is you need the weld to melt into twice the thickness of the metal. So if you were butt welding to .035 thick pieces of metal by this rule if you melted into each piece .070 you would have proper penetration. It makes sense doesn't it, it does no good to pile on weld when the metal is only .035 thick anyway. If you had a piece of metal that was not cut, it is doing its job at .035 thick, you do not need to pile on a weld to make it strong. All you need is that .070 penetration and you will at the very least have it as strong as if there was no weld at all right? If it were perfectly flat and only had that .070 penetration it would be at the very least as strong as with no seam or weld at all. The thing is, you must get the penetration. Without the penetration a pile a inch high of weld is NOT going to hold the two together.
    Starting the weld hot and fast is going to provide you with the needed penetration on the base metal. Once you have that going all you need is that little on the edge of the overlying metal and you are done. You don't need to pile on a bunch of weld. This weld I am describing is a very flat weld. You want to melt your metal together not make a pile of melted wire. If a pile of weld is started, it will only grow and fall. If you are welding inverted and the weld is not flat and melting INTO the metal, I guaranty you will have a pile of weld. Many times that pile of weld will drop off onto your chest, YEOW!

    Should a weld start piling up, STOP. You can not save it. If the base doesn't have good penetration it NEVER will. The piling on of weld is not going to do a darn thing about your penetration. As my dad would say "The boat has left for Rangoon". You see, you can use the gravity to your favor but that is another "basics". What is happening when the weld piles up is it is forming a "barrier" to the metal under it. That weld is solidifying as it cools. You can pile on all the weld you want, the metal under it is NOT going to melt. I don't have how red, how molten that pile is, the weld underneath has cooled too much.

    If your welds need a lot of grinding, you are piling on too much weld and possibly they are lacking in penetration.

    I can tell you right now, there is not a bit of difference in a horizontal, vertical, or inverted weld. The only difference happens between your ears.

    Good luck and weld safely.
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I can tell you that Ive yet too meet any serious fabricator that bought the better quality lincoln or miller mig or tig welders that regretted spending the money and though that they would have had better results with a welder that cost 1/3rd to 1/2 as much.we all make mistakes, but if you never try anything new with out some risk,
    you can never hope to learn or add skills, most of us learn by, hands on, experience.
    and it helps if you watch, and learn from other people success and failures
    you can significantly lower the risk by simply finding a knowledgeable mentor ,
    (Ideally local) if its a skill that requires manual dexterity, or visual acuity,
    that can point out the things you need to to look for,
    in how the jobs done and the best tools required.(and what to avoid)
    that has already made those mistakes and knows how to avoid most of them,
    who might be willing to pass on those experiences and skills

    Miller INFO:

    An EXCELLENT LINK - this guy, John Kelly is a Metal Master:

    Link to John's pictured examples

    Here is how the Mig STITCH WELD process looks for a viewable online video.

    Here are some more online videos to look over:

    Don't forget to treat the back side of the welds:
    ICAR link to treating backside of panels

    thats one great reason , on an endless list of reasons to own,
    and know how to use a a decent quality MIG or TIG welder,
    I don,t see how anyone in this hobby can function,
    without a decent welder , drill press and a decent tool chest

    we have a whole welding section
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  3. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  5. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    several of my friends own this miller 212 mig welder and give it rave reviews


    I bought this miller 252, mig several years ago,
    and so far its performed well on everything I've attempted to use it on,
    yes I think we all wish quality welders cost less,but you tend to get what you pay for in tool quality.
    and it should be obvious that you'll need too read the manual and practice a bit.
    before you get good results and loading the mig welder with quality wire
    and using the correct shield gas is mandatory, and yes there,s adjustments on the welder wire feed and it helps to experiment a bit,
    and it should be obvious that the wire must be maintained rust free so spraying it with a bit of wd 40 might be a good idea ,
    and certainly covering the welder and keeping it stored in a well ventilated and dry place when not in use is mandatory.
    I don,t know anyone whose purchased a better quality lincoln or miller mig welder rated at 200 amps or higher that regrets spending the cash required to do so later on,
    but I,ve heard a good many people who bought much less expensive mig welder,
    who deeply regret not waiting and spending a bit more on a better welder.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

  7. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I know from experience how difficult those auto car floor and body metal type of repairs can be!
    you need to think things through and remember you don,t want to risk causing the car or the person welding harm.
    what gauge metal is the existing floor pan and what gauge is the replacement floor panel?
    what type welder, (mig, TIG, brand and model,)
    what gauge wire and amps?
    what shield gas was used ,(all those factors WILL effect the quality of the welds)
    or is that flux core welder work? (that never produces near the same quality welds)
    that does not necessarily mean the flux core welder should not be used,
    but there are CLEAR advantages to a properly used MIG or TIG.

    BTW anyone considering similar work, its a good idea, to very carefully clean and degrease areas to be welded, (never use galvanized sheet metal the fumes are dangerous in confined areas,)
    to have a CO2 fire extinguisher in arms reach,
    and to remove most major electronic equipment, from the car, don,t just disconnect it, (that won,t keep it safe in all cases) and disconnecting the battery connections,
    before all welding is done, electronics are easily damaged by welding done within a few yards.
  8. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member


    keep in mind a lot of the posts I put out are not directly addressing anything that any one person may or may not have done,
    I know from experience that a good many of the people reading through the linked threads and looking at the pictures may have never so much as removed a carpet
    and most certainly don,t own a decent welder of any type or know how to use it correctly.
    .nor do many of them know theres even a difference between a TIG, or MIG, or flux core welder.
    Im not pointing out any flaws just trying to get the newer guys to appreciate the fact that some planing and thought goes into the repair work,
    and theres some tools and materials far better suited to the repair work than what the less informed or less experienced members might think is required.
    MIG and TIG, both have a firm recognized place in any shop, flux core is basically a rather inferior route to take, and no I generally use my 252 miller MIG on similar repairs

    Im sure some guys have no clue what a sheet metal gauge is
    short answer its a reference to metal thickness
    the larger the number the thinner the metal, the idea is that gauge is the number of sheets that thick that stack up to equal 1 inch, its not exact but thats the basic concept

    [​IMG] ... 5yc1vZbv79
    clean metal surfaces to be welded is a mandatory starting point.


    running two parallel or dual welds on an over lap replacement floor replacement as in example #B vs,
    leaving an exposed area that will trap moisture between the two sheet metal surfaces is both a stronger bond,
    and less likely to require repair work from rust damage in the future, especially if the welds are painted with rust preventative coatings,
    on the upper internal surfaces and undercoating rust preventative coating.s on the under the car surfaces.
    pop rivets can be useful in holding a floor pan in place for welding.

    ROCKAUTO has an impressive list or replacement body panels ate reasonable prices

    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
  9. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    one of the primary reasons most shops buy and use a 220 volt mig welder vs a 110 volt is the vastly increased duty cycle most 180-250 amp migs have
    ,you don,t need to run any mig welder at its full amp capacity if your doing common sheet metal auto repair work,
    but a 110 volt welder will generally have issues with duty cycle limitations , if you try to run it for anything approaching continuously
    while a quality mig in the 180 amp-250 amp range will generally be fine with almost constant use , simply because use at the lower amp ranges ,
    won't generally tax the machines capacity or heat build-up limitations ,
    example heres my 252 mig, if I'm welding auto body sheet metal it never gets close to the machines duty cycle limits
    remember youll generally set a mig welder at some where near 2/3rds-to0-1 amp per thousandth of material thickness
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven solid fixture here in the forum

    Thank you for the links Grumpy. I have found a few tricks that I am going to try with my mig welder. I find it curious that I have can stick weld much better than I can mig weld for some reason. could be I have years of experience with rod and only a couple with mig.
  11. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member


    one of the guys I occasionally hunt with, thats wanted a mig welder for decades finally broke down,
    and purchased one of these mig welders, from east wood, he had asked me to show him how to weld,
    so after it arrived, he unpacked it and called me,
    we took a bit of scrap angle iron, and I showed him how to load wire,
    set the shield gas gauges, showed him how to use a helmet, turned on,
    on a small rented tank of shield gas, he borrowed, along with a welding mask,
    from a second friend, and he had his first go at mig welding
    as my college instructor in engineering classes used to say repeatedly.....

    ("you can teach monkeys to mig weld,,
    so theres some probably misplaced,hope for you gentlemen")

    after about 5-7 minutes he seemed to get the basic concept down reasonably well,
    and while its not a miller 252, it seemed to do a very acceptable job.
    I don,t see most guys would have faced any limitations using this welder for most common auto repair jobs (and its certainly seems too be a decent value at the price)
    (hes thrilled, and I would certainly find it a useful tool.)
    keep in mind youll need a helmet , some mig wire, gloves and a tank of shield gas to mig weld,f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=welding+gloves,f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=welding+helmet

    your local lincoln or miller or airgas dealer will rent or sell you shield gas tanks
    be prepared for a price shock, between deposit and monthly rental or purchase price youll generally ,
    be writing a check in the $189-$340 ranges for tank rental or purchase , obviously tank size maters in cost.

  12. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    I was over at a buddies shop helping him modify an existing exhaust on his camaro,
    we added an X-pipe,
    he had picked up one of these lincoln welders, (linked above)
    and was trying to do the job with flux core welding ,
    the results might have worked, out ok, ..
    but theres no disputing the result looked like crap,
    compared to what it could look like with a proper mig/shield gas weld.
    knowing he had less experience I decided to let him see a side by side difference in weld quality.
    theres no disputing that getting a tank of shield gas is a P.I.T.A.,
    and rather expensive compared to flux core welding,
    Id brought over some .030 mig wire and a regulator and my argon tank,
    I use on my MIG welder
    after seeing the difference, in weld quality ,
    he was convinced to get a regulator and tank of shield gas

    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  13. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    heres a good tip..
    don,t watch car rebuilding shows that have welding segments,
    while my wifes in earshot, she gets cranky when I see stupid stuff being done,
    and scream at the T.V,.... and say things like

    " have you ever even seen a welder before this show?"

    "are you a total F%%^&^* IDIOT?"

    "what kind of a MORRON would even consider doing that?"

    she is threatening to record and play episodes of "THE VIEW" if I don,t stop
    watching totally unskilled clueless people being portrayed as knowledgable
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  14. T-Test

    T-Test solid fixture here in the forum

    I do everything in front of my other half. When she comments like that, I just say--I don't tell you how to fix your hair or what to wear. She knows she is not going to win that argument.

    But she gets any and all that she asks for--for there is no better woman than this for me.

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