Tranny issues

george88gta

Active Member
OK, I had my 700-r4 rebuilt. They checked my install of the TCI 2-3 servo upgrade and gave it a clean bill of health. Reinstalled the tranny, with a new TCI converter and the TCI overdrive valve upgrade. Car runs poorly. Upshift from 1-2 occurs at about 2000-2500 rpm, 2-3 is over 3000 rpm. TV cable is new and adjusted to the specs as outlined in the GM shop Manual ( 1988 Firebird), but is under tension at idle. Shop manual indicates that this is a TV cable problem. I looked thru the stickies and found a site that indicates that there should be no tension on the TV cable at idle. I seem to recall that there was a little bit of slack in the old cable. Am I heading in the right direction or should I be looking for some other problem? Dont want to trash a fresh rebuild. :?:
 
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=617&p=2569#p2569

there generally is a tiny bit of slack in the cable, and the trans normally shifts at higher rpms under full throttle conditions so Id check out the adjustments on the cables, throttle body , tps, etc,
your correct to be concerned because if its far enought out of adjustment transmission life is effected
 
Thanks, Paul. I reread all of those links and they all say about the same thing, push the slider back and then reset the cable by going to WOT. When I do that, there is tension on the cable at idle. I still have the old ( probably original) cable and I checked the distance the slider extends from the housing. It is about 7/8". On the new cable, the slider extends only about 1/4" after doing the adjustment. One thing that has me confused, the Bowtieoverdrives article states that the TV lever should be in contact with the plunger at idle. Mine is has about 1/4" gap. I checked with the rebuilder and he said there is supposed to be a gap. Is Bowtie referring to their upgraded TV system? Is it correct to have a gap on the stock setup? Rebuilder told me to manually adjust the TV cable by pulling the slider out a bit, make sure there is a little slack in the cable and then test drive to verify proper shifting. If that doesnt work, I think I will reinstall the old cable and see how it adjusts as compaerd to the new cable. I purchased the cable from Pontiac, GM part number 25521263. I looked at the parts listing , with the GM guy, and that is the cable listed for the TPI 5.0 "F" and the 5.7 "8" motors. This is starting to look like another one of those "grey haired" moments.
 
Yep, it is definitely a "grey haired" moment. I adjusted the TV cable so there is a little slack. Took it for a test drive. Shifted smoothly, although I was looking for a little firmer shift. Thought I would head to the tranny shop and have them check it out. Car ran OK. When I got to the shop, they had closed early. Started the car to head home and the idle would range from 1000 - 1500 rpm. Limped home and stuck car in the garage. Guess tomorow I start looking for vacumn leak, tps, IAC, etc.
 
Im reasonably sure the transmission shop will get you fixed up shortly,when you get the time adding a heavy duty additional transmission cooler with its own fan will do a good deal for the transmission life if its properly installed

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=662
 
Switched back to the old TV cable yesterday and tranny shifts a lot better. Dont know why GM part doesnt work, but it doesnt. Still picking away at the idle issue, found a wire pinched between the runners and the intake. I put the stock runners back on so that I can swap TV cables without having to remove the plenum. Went down to the tranny shop to give him and update. He told me that when I have the idle issue resolved, to stop by and he would adjust the TV cable for me. I asked him if he used a pressure guage to do the adjustment. Response was "no, I just play with the cable until you are happy with the tranny". Doesnt sound like I am going to get a professional setup with this guy. I am considering buying a pressure guage and doing the adjustment as called out in the shop manual. Guess it doesnt always pay to shop locally, would have had similar results buying from Ebay.
 
Id say about 20% of the guys in any business know all or most of the little tricks thru experience,and are always trying to do a great job, and many of them have the skills necessary to do the job correctly, and trouble shoot effectively, and are the guys that buy the tools, test equipment and hire the skilled technicians and have guys who read the instructions and ask manufacturers questions, these are the guys who when something won,t work, correctly that take the time to research WHY something failed! and about 20% are basically in the business to make money regardless of their skills or abilities,or the quality of product they produce,and the only thing they look at is the cash flow, and their net! (customer be damned) that leaves about 60% who fall someplace in the middle

http://sethirdgen.org/tvcable.htm

T.V. Cable Adjustment

WARNING: PERMANENT DAMAGE WILL OCCUR IF THE T.V. CABLE IS NOT ADJUSTED OR HOOKED UP.

THE DAMAGE WILL OCCUR WITHIN A FEW FEET OF DRIVING THE VEHICLE!


The TV cable on the 700R4 and 200-4R transmissions controls line pressure, shift points, shift feel, part throttle downshifts, and detent (full throttle) downshifts. So if the TV cable is not adjusted properly, it can cause numerous transmission problems.

The TV cable is connected to and operates the throttle lever, and bracket assembly mounted on the valve body. The function of the throttle lever and bracket assembly I to transfer the movements of the throttle plate in the carburetor to the TV plunger in the valve body. This causes TV pressure and line pressure to increase according to throttle opening and also controls modulated and detent downshifts. The proper adjustment of the TV cable is based on the TV plunger being fully depressed with the engine at wide-open throttle (see figure 9). When the TV cable is properly adjusted the movement of the TV plunger in the valve body is calibrated to the movement of the fuel delivery system. This means the transmission will always have the correct oil pressure and shift feel regardless of engine torque. Simply put, due to this calibration, engine torque and transmission line pressure/shift feel will always be in balance.

If a change is made, such as a different carburetor installed, the change in geometry could disrupt this balance and proper adjustment may never be achieved.

Many people try to defeat the self-adjusting TV cable and tailor shift points of shift feel. However, remember that on the 700R4 and 2004R Transmission the TV cable controls both shift feel (clutch apply pressure) and shift points, you therefore cannot alter one without altering the other.

Let's discuss briefly what happens when someone tailors the TV cable:

Shortening the Cable : If you shorten the cable (move it towards the adjuster tab), this raises both one pressure and shift point. However, when the drive performs a full throttle downshift the TV cable will readjust to its approximate normal position.

Lengthening the Cable : If you lengthen the valve, this lowers both line pressure and shift points. Under this condition, the TV cable will not readjust during a full throttle downshift. What you have effectively done is allowed the engine torque to be ahead of transmission line pressure and shift points. Operating the vehicle under this condition will cause premature clutch wear and transmission malfunction.

DIAGNOSIS

A TV cable that is sticky; misadjusted, broken or incorrect for the vehicle can cause various transmission malfunctions. A sticky or binding TV cable can result in delayed or full throttle upshifts (figure 9). At other times, the TV cable may stick or bind only when the engine off. To check for this problem, run the engine at idle with the transmission selector in neutral and the parking brake set. Pull the end of the TV cable located on the throttle linkage, through its full range of travel, then release it. It should return to rest against the cable terminal (figure 10), it may be caused by one or more of the following conditions:

1. A sharply bent or damaged TV cable hosing. To correct this problem, try rerouting the cable. If this doesn't cure the problem, replace the cable.

2. A burr or sharp end on the TV link. This condition would cause the link to drag in the TV cable housing. You can correct this situation by filing the end smooth but Do Not shorten the link.

3. Misalignment of the throttle lever and bracket assembly on the valve body. Correct the alignment and torque the bolts to the proper specifications as noted in your service manual.

4. A bent TV link. Straighten or replace the link as required.

5. A binding or damaged throttle lever and bracket assembly. Straighten or replace the assembly as required.

6. An unhooked or damaged throttle lever spring. Reconnect the spring if it is unhooked. If it is damaged, replace the throttle lever and bracket assembly.

7. An incorrectly adjusted TV cable. (A) If the cable is adjusted too long, one of the following conditions may result: (1) early shifts, slipping, and/or no detent downshifts; (2) low line pressure. (B) If the cable is adjusted shore, or not hooked up at all, line pressure and shift points will rise and full throttle operation may not be possible.


ADJUSTMENTS


Before adjusting the TV cable, check the following:
1. Transmission oil level. Correct if necessary.
2. Proper engine operation. This can cause problems similar to a malfunctioning transmission.
3. Dragging brakes. This can cause detract from vehicle performance and cause transmission malfunction.
4. Check the TV cable to insure that it is the right part for the vehicle. If you do not hear at least one "click" from the TV cable during the adjustment procedure, it may be the wrong part.
5. Check the cable to insure that it is properly connected at the transmission. "Clicks" will still be heard during adjustment.Adjustment procedure (self-adjusting cable)1. Stop the engine.

Adjustment procedure (self-adjusting cable)

1. Stop the engine.
2. Depress the adjusting tab and move the slider back through the fitting away from the carburetor until it stops.
3. Release the adjustment tab.
4. Move the throttle linkage to rest against the full throttle stop, then release it .
5. Check the cable to insure that it is not sticking or binding.
6. Road test the vehicle.
7. If the problem still exists, refer to the cable diagnosis section.

SEE DIAGRAM

CLICK FOR TECH 1


TV CABLE BRACKET FABRICATION

This section is only for those that do not have a previous TV cable setup, or for those who's TV cable will not fit into the specifications in the previous pages.

Proper installation and adjustment of the TV cable is the most important aspect of a transmission. Don't think of it as "just a kick-down cable" - on the nonvacuum-modulated Th700R4 and Th2004R the TV cable controls line pressure, shift points, shift feel, part-throttle downshifts, and detent downshifts! As the accelerator pedal is depressed and the throttle opens, the TV linkage relays the motion to the valve body's throttle plunger. In stock installations, the geometric relationship between the TV cable and carb throttle shaft bellcrank produces the required TV cable extension (pull) for the transmission to function properly under different degrees of throttle opening. Failure to preserve the correct geometric relationship in custom installations will inevitably lead to early transmission failure.

1. Measure your TV cable to establish its particular mounting dimension as follows: First retract the slider by depressing the lock tab, then pull the cable housing until the flats on the slider are flush with the end of the adjuster housing. (To illustrate components in this photo the slider is shown extended, and the lock tab is not fully inserted through the bracket face.)

2. Then, with the slider retracted, fully extend the cable by pulling the cable end fitting out until it stops. Holding the end fitting out, measure the dimension from the face on the adjuster housing that registers with the mounting bracket to the center of the cable and connector.

3. Add 1/16 inch (.19) to the measurement obtained in step 2 - this is the perpendicular measurement from the rear face of the TV cable mounting bracket to the wide-open-throttle position of the TV cable connector pin on the throttle bellcrank.

4. To ensure that the TV mechanism moves in correct proportion to the throttle opening, the TV cable bellcrank must be perpendicular (90 degrees) to the TV cable when the throttle is about a quarter open. The cable connector pin's mounting location must be established on the throttle bellcrank at a radius of 1.094 to 1,125 inches (also see step 3). If there is no suitable existing hole in the bellcrank, drill a new hole or fabricate a suitable attachment, as required, to properly locate the connector pin.

5. The proper location of the TV cable mounting bracket is determined by the angular and radial position of the TV cable connector pin on the throttle bellcrank. Make sure that other cables and rods will not interfere with the TV cable. Mount the TV cable adjuster housing so that the lock tab is readily accessible.

6. Fabricate the bracket using .090- to .125-inch sheet metal to these housing cutout dimensions. If thicker stock is used, a chamfer is required on two sides of the cable mounting cutout to allow the lock tabs to expand properly. The adjuster requires approximately 18 pounds pull to ratchet out, so make the bracket as rigid as possible.
tvadjust.jpg
 
george88gta said:
Switched back to the old TV cable yesterday and tranny shifts a lot better. Dont know why GM part doesnt work, but it doesnt. Still picking away at the idle issue, found a wire pinched between the runners and the intake. I put the stock runners back on so that I can swap TV cables without having to remove the plenum. Went down to the tranny shop to give him and update. He told me that when I have the idle issue resolved, to stop by and he would adjust the TV cable for me. I asked him if he used a pressure guage to do the adjustment. Response was "no, I just play with the cable until you are happy with the tranny". Doesnt sound like I am going to get a professional setup with this guy. I am considering buying a pressure guage and doing the adjustment as called out in the shop manual. Guess it doesnt always pay to shop locally, would have had similar results buying from Ebay.
Here is an update. The main idle issue was a vacumn leak. The SLP runners needed some massaging for the initial fit. When I swapped over to the stock runners, the leak was at the cold start valve ( 9th injector). The SLP runners have a ridge in the casting and when I bolted down the cold start valve, the flange on the valve bent to conform to the ridge. When I swapped runners, the flange was already bent and did not seal at the valve flange. I decided to go back to the SLP runners and while I had the valve out, I removed some material from the flange so it clears the ridge. No more vacumn leaks. I readjusted the minimum idle speed and now I have a decent idle. Car still needs a little more tuning, when I drive the car it stays around 1000 rpm, but when I stop, it idles at 850 ( idle spec'd buy the chip tuner). At least it doesnt try to drive thru the brakes when stopped. Shifting is improved, but I still want to take it to the shop to have him verify his work. Last time I talked to him, he said it could be some dirt in the governor. Not having much knowledge about auto trannies, I will defer to him for a while. More to come I am sure.
 
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