transmission and oil cooler increases durability

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
If your thinking of adding an oil cooler for either engine oil or trans fluid cooling, ,the first question ID have is WHY are you adding an oil cooler and WHAT are your current oil temps, and transmission fluid temps that require one?
IF you can,t tell what your current fluid and oil temps ARE, and if you don,t have temp gauges to monitor the fluid temps, how do you even know you need one, or could reasonably function without adding one.
AND IF you do add one, be sure to think thru the location, and routing the hydraulic lines and what fittings you select.

most hydraulic supply shops can very easily fabricate flex hydraulic lines with matching ends at any length required, pressure drops with remote coolers or filter mounts are almost always the result of using hydraulic lines AND hydraulic line connections with too small an INTERNAL cross sectional area, anything less than AN#8 is bound to be restrictive and AN#10 is far better, and much less likely to cause issues with pressure drops, obviously the adapters and fittings used for fluid transmission must also have at least AN# 8 OR PREFERABLY AN#10 CONNECTIONS , if you run 3/8" OR AN#6 LINES YOUR BOUND TO FIND IT DROPS RETURN LINE PRESSURE, and just as obviously this would mean the passage or tube size of the oil cooler must be at least AN#8 as the coolers with AN#6 internal passages tend to restrict flow so read carefully before you buy an oil or trans coolerand from experience I can assure you that if you need a trans cooler , or OIL COOLER the type with the built in fan and at least 1/2"inside diameter hydraulic lines or AN#10 fittings is by far the best choice, and obviously youll need to carefully measure where your going to mount the cooler and run the lines before ordering a cooler but the larger the surface area the better in most applications
I had similar issues, that many guys experience with oil pressure and flow at higher rpms until I installed less restrictive oil lines to the accessories, when I installed my oil cooler with the AN#6 lines that came in the mounting kit from SUMMIT RACING, swapping to AN #8 lines at first which helped a great deal but once I swapped to AN#10 lines those cured the issue, and yes I mounted my oil cooler where the spare tire normally mounts , so its a good distance from the engine.
shop carefully swapping in an oil cooler or trans cooler with fluid line diameter too small for the application will have a huge effect on the coolers efficiency, and can restrict flow rates

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-13182/overview/

the rotating assembly bearings ,wrist pins and complete valve train,valve springs, lifters, valves and valve guides and the pistons and rings are where a great deal of the engine heat is generated, and those components are initially cooled with oil flow that absorbs and transfers the heat collected , and transported from those components to the block and coolant, so having a constant flow of pressurized oil flow over those parts are mandatory for maximum durability.thus adding a larger capacity baffled oil pan and an oil cooler will generally enhance and extend an engines life span.
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

prm-13182_rz_xl.jpg

one question that always comes up, is the ideal, size and length of the fluid transmission lines required,
too feed and return hot oil from remote mounted oil coolers and transmission fluid coolers, the simple answer, visit a local professional hydraulic supply shop after taking careful measurements and verifying the type of fittings, thread types used etc.
I would strongly suggest you select, and ask too have fabricated,
(after taking careful measurements and verifying the connection fitting type and threads etc.) high temp ,high pressure ,lines, AN#8-1/2" lines designed to handle 250F temps and 350 PSI. MINIMUM

keep in mind most performance cars with an auto transmission and a higher rpm stall converter, will need an auxiliary trans fluid cooler, Id strongly suggest you find one with an electric fan and 1/2" or AN#8 line size as you'll want to allow a minimum of 2 -3 gallons a minute trans fluid flow rate.
engine oil coolers , TRANSMISSION FLUID COOLERS and remote mounted engine oil coolers with remote filters, also benefit from use of a MINIMUM of a AN#8/1/2" inside diameter fluid transmission line .


Up to 250 GPH =4.2 GPM= 1/2" or -08 AN
nearly ideal for transmission and oil coolers :D
*
Up to 450 GPH =7.5 GPM= 5/8" or -10 AN
*
Up to 900 GPH = 15GPM 3/4"or -12 AN


diagramoilroute.gif



keep in mind oil does almost all the initial engine cooling so adding a larger efficient oil cooler with a fan
, and as large an oil pan as clearances allow goes a long way toward reducing engine temps,
you certainly will see a difference if a properly sized and installed oil cooler is used.

airoilcl1.jpg

you don,t need something this large in most cases
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-700040
airoilcl2.jpg

something like this makes a noticeable improvement
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15800

remember to accurately measure the area you intend to install any oil cooler,
and leave lots of room for the connecting high pressure oil feed & return lines and access to connect them.
rmo11.jpg

Loves302Chevy posted these diagrams that will be helpful
autotransf1.jpg

www.summitracing.com

Derale Cooling Products 15719 Derale Fluid Control Thermostats | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Derale Fluid Control Thermostats with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Remote Oil Thermostats at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com
der-15719_xl.jpg


short cut makes sense, if that valve is not functioning correctly a certain percentage (20%-80% ) might be bypassing the coolers, if thats the case ,no mater how effective the aux coolers are the trans fluid returning to the trans would almost never be cooler than the engine coolant temps. and might be marginally higher as the vast majority of the fluid volume never circulated through the coolers at all.
now Im not using that type of thermostat to control fluid temps,
my thermostat control on the trans cooler, simply turns on the FANS on the aux cooler once the temps reach 160F,

www.summitracing.com

Mishimoto MMFAN-CNTL-U18NPT Mishimoto Electric Fan Controller Kits | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Mishimoto Electric Fan Controller Kits with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Fan Switches at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com
www.summitracing.com

Mishimoto MMFAN-CNTL-UPROBE Mishimoto Electric Fan Controller Kits | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Mishimoto Electric Fan Controller Kits with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Fan Switches at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com
mio-fncntluprobe_xl.jpg


wixflter.png

extended length oil filter or even dual extended length oil filters ,
51794.jpg

that way you have, a greatly increased filter surface area surface that significantly reduces the resistance to oil flow rates and a significantly larger surface area on the filter medium, that will in theory allow longer use before the filter medium starts to clog with debris .
remember the goal here is two fold, effective cooling of the oil and low flow rate restriction, which a remotely mounted oil filter(s) can supply, plus the option of selecting an easily accessed remote mount filter location
dualfilt4.jpg

rmo11.jpg


Last edited: Jun 11, 2017


autotransf2.gif

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1030&p=11111&hilit=flare#p11111

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=662&p=910#p910

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3144&p=8391#p8391

http://www.tciauto.com/tc/cooler-fittings

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4381&p=11507&hilit=bending#p11507
READ THIS LINK
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3144&p=16458#p16458


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-stabilization-temp-vs-time.11043/#post-48999

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-cooling.149/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cooling-off-that-c4-corvette.3954/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sion-and-oil-cooler-increases-durability.176/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ans-cooler-on-a-c4-corvette.10514/#post-44478

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/1995-corvette-fan-motor-quit-working.10559/

1984-1989 Corvette Direct Fit®

All Aluminum Radiator for 1984-89 Corvette
www.dewitts.com

1984 – 1989 Corvette C4 Aluminum Radiator | ECP


speedcooling.com
speedcooling.com


your much more likely to need a trans fluid cooler, than an engine oil cooler ,engine oil needs to reach 215F to burn off moisture,(measured in the oil pan) (bearing surface temps tend to run 50-60f higher than sump temps.) and as long as it stays under about 230F most of the time its going to function, trans fluid over about 180F tends to reduce trans durability,
a high capacity 7-8 qt baffled oil pan with a windage screen will frequently reduce oil temps to the range where an oil coolers not required, your first step is installing a engine oil temp gauge and transmission fluid temp. gauge..engine coolant temps tend to run about 20f lower than oil in the sump.

BTW HERES AN IMPORTANT TIP, IT is really common for guys to use lines that are far to small, that restrict flow oil flow or select a transmission or oil cooler that has to small of internal passages, shop carefully you want a MINIMUM of 1/2, or AN8 line size and 5/8" or AN10 is BETTER
think about it, your measuring the oil pressure in most cases AFTER its been thru the cooler and returned to the oil passages in the block, oil leaves the oil pump and its routed to the oil filter where the oil filter adapter routes it thru the oil cooler and back to the adapter then into the block, your measuring the restricted oil flow after its returned to the block, if the lines or cooler passages restrict oil flow its potentially a problem for lubrication of the moving parts if pressure or oil volumes reduced
25Q85.jpg



adding a transmission cooler like this one dropped my trans fluid temps significantly, vastly increasing the potential life expectancy of my 4l80e transmission, I originally had an identical oil cooler installed also, but found that with a trans cooler installed it dropped the heat loads on my radiator to the point getting my engine oil temps above 215F was much more difficult even without the oil cooler.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-45901/?rtype=10

http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... -45901.pdf
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15719
157193a.jpg

keep in mind a trans fluid t-stat valve like this routes the fluid through the valves bypass directly back to the transmission , bypassing the aux cooler until the trans fluid temp heat reaches a point where a bi-metal valve closes the bypass and then all the hot trans fluid passes through the aux cooler beyond the t-stat valve, no mater how effective the aux fluid cooler is, or how well the fans are at removing heat, the aux cooler never gets a chance to cool fluid until the valve allows fluid to flow through the aux cooler.

On my corvette, I routed the trans fluid through the lower radiator so it rapidly heats by close contact to engine coolant, in the lower radiator just like most cars use,
and then the trans fluid routes through the aux cooler, where its cooled before it route's back to the transmission,

but to prevent over cooling the aux cooler FANS are on a temp controlled switch that only turns the fans on once the fluid reaches 155F, thus the trans rapidly reaches operational temps, but once trans fluid hits about 155F-165F it rarely goes much higher
157193b.jpg


flx-45901_w.jpg


one of the first things I noticed when I installed a 8 quart baffled oil pan (further modified with extended sump) and a separate transmission and oil cooler on my car was the very noticeable drop in engine temps, in fact the engine had a hard time getting the oil temps up to 215F which is required to burn off moisture in the oil that gets into the engine if it sits for days in Florida, the cure was installing a 190f t-stat and a bye-pass/return on the oil cooler, that bye-passed the cooler with about 90% of the oil flow routed to the cooler until the oil got hot.
if you want to keep the temp from making wide swings as the car runs..
there are 190F-195F t-stats
http://www.ecklers.com/corvette-thermos ... -1991.html
http://www.ecklers.com/corvette-dual-ra ... ct_Related
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInf ... pacity.asp
28630.jpg

40416.jpg

26317.jpg

http://www.ecklers.com/corvette-low-tem ... -1995.html
remotefil.jpg

remote mounted oil filters can be used along with an oil cooler to to increase transmission cooler efficiency
and optional sensors you can use to turn on the fans at lower temps like 155f-200f

If you don,t have both an oil and transmission fluid temp gauge, in addition to the engine coolant temp gauge your probably guessing at the source of your engine heat to some extent
the reason I ask is that I added a 8 quart baffled, oil pan, and a dual transmission and oil cooler to my corvette about 8 years ago plus an oil and transmission fluid temp gauge at the same time
similar to this

prm-13311.jpg



READ THRU THIS LINK ALSO
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=662
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-12318
I rapidly became aware that it was the transmission fluid that was the main thing needing to be cooled and that the baffled 8 qt oil pan, was maintaining the oil temps at much lower than the stock oil pan, in fact it was rare for the oil temps to exceed 230F once I installed the 8 quart oil pan,
11-120.jpg

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65&p=7977&hilit=canton+baffled#p7977

in fact getting the oil temps up to 215F that is required to burn off oils moisture content and prevent acids forming took a good long time under normal driving conditions, I eventually swapped to a larger transmission cooler and had a bye-pass valve installed so it maintained about 180F , and did away with the oil cooler as the baffled 8 qt oil pan that I modified to a 10 quart capacity by extending the sump was all that was required to maintain a consistent oil temp range.

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInf ... ctancy.asp
theres good info in this thread BELOW also
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=662

your best off installing a transmission fluid cooler of significant size to cool the trans under high stress/high heat load conditions,that has a separate electric fan and a thermostatically controlled switch that routes coolant thru the aux cooler once it reaches 180F, so it can,t get any hotter

http://www.transmissioncoolers.us/Merch ... Code=guide

http://www.transmissioncoolers.us/Merch ... an-coolers

# Small compact cars, No towing Coolers with GVW ratings of 10,000 to 16,000 lbs.

Mid-size cars, Light towing
# Coolers with GVW ratings of 14,000 to 18,000 lbs.

Mid-size trucks & full size cars
Towing up to 5,000 lbs.
# Coolers with GVW ratings of 18,000 to 24,000 lbs.
Pickup Trucks, SUV's
# Towing up to 7,500 lbs. Coolers with GVW ratings of 22,000 to 26,000 lbs.

HD Trucks, Motor homes
Towing up to 10,000 lbs.
# Coolers with GVW ratings of 22,000 to 30,000 lbs.

Super Duty trucks
Large Motor homes
# Coolers with GVW ratings of 28,000 lbs. and UP
oilpasse44.jpg

oilfilterflowdirections.jpg


keep in mind high hp levels build heat in the transmission fast! once the trans fluid temp exceeds 180 degrees F the trans life expectancy drops, the higher the heat the shorter the expected trans life, trans fluid heat over 220f is sure to hurt the trans after awhile

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/TransTemp.htm

http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm
heatchrt.jpg


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRM-12318&N=700+115&autoview=sku
EXAMPLE on my corvette with its limited room .you can (I DID IN the PAST)replace the spare tire/carrier with this


these guys sell adapters
http://www.cantonracing.com/

prm-13311.jpg


prm-12318.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-12318
IM currently using this on my 1985 corvertte but have used others in the past


img212.gif

the upper 4 pass connectors went to the trans, the lower two connections to the oil cooler, BUT Ive since swapped to a 6 pass for the trans only as the oil cooler worked TOO effectively and I never got up to full temp..
your correct! LINE SIZE IS IMPORTANT !! a 3/8" inside line size is marginal too useless depending on what percentage of the engine oil that is routed thru the coolers or remote filters, a 1/2" inside dia, line would be in my opinion the minimum that should be considered.
my trans cooler uses a 3/8" line , my oil cooler used to run a 1/2" but I found that the oil cooler was not necessary once I installed the trans cooler and 10 qt baffled oil pan on the car

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRM-185&view=32&N=700+400006+314601
prm-185_w.jpg

BTW your local hydrolic hose supply house can make good high pressure (MINIMUM 200 PSI hot oil (300 degrees F rated) braided hoses with screw ends if you measure carefully.
route it inside the frame rails and away from the exhaust and drive train, up away from the potential for speed bumps and crap hitting the lines

engine oil needs to reach and stay at about 215F-240f
trans fluid I try to keep under 160F,surely below 180F ,Ideally I try to keep coolant in the engine in the 190F-200F range but don,t get overly worried below 230F.I run a 190F t-stat
you can install AUTO temp control switchs and GAUGES (ideal) or manual switchs and GAUGES (FAR FROM IDEAL), your correct that the engine fluids take slightly longer to reach ideal temps, but then they rarely change after getting into the ideal ranges after you set up the system correctly

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal.htm

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM-890015

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRF-30103

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRF-30110

these allow the fluids to circulate but the fan won,t run untill the temp reachs a set limit



keep in mind the hot engine oil running over the blocks surfaces and trans fluid running thru the lower radiator add a good deal of heat to the coolant in the radiator and removing heat elseware from both reduces the radiators heat load, generally stabilizing the engine temp swings


Could an oil cooler be easily disconnected for the winter months? I'd want one in the summer, but not in the winter when it's -25 out."



they are easily disconnected or a re-route valve too bye-pass can be installed, but like I said, the fan never comes on unless the temp band gets exceeded, keep in mind I don,t have that problem living in FLORIDA where its seldom cooler than 60F and usually in the 75F-95F range


"Also, if I were to buy a bigger-than-stock oil pan, would I be able to run it with a quart or two missing during the winter, to help it warm up faster, or no? "

I run a 10 qt oil pan with 10 qts of oil in it with a windage screen on the engine and a two qt deeper than stock trans pan,but about 2 qts are always in the lines and cooler, so IM running slightly lower effective oil levels in the oil pan,as far as windage and the crank spinning thru oil in the sump. it takes about 3-4 miles normal driving or 7-9 minutes at idle too get up to temp if that helps

theres INSTRUCTIONS with the kit, but basically you install the sensor and wire in any fan you choose to , following those instructions and using the new sensor. you can use the original fan, but in most cases a larger aftermarket fan or an additional transmission cooler is used. the sensor screws into the cylinder head

you can also install just an aftermarket fan
hfm-zfb16s_w.jpg


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLX-365&N=700+115&autoview=sku

flx-365.jpg

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HFM-ZFB16S&N=700+320174+4294775279+115&autoview=sku
der-13720_w.jpg

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DER-13720&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DER-15800&N=700+115&autoview=sku


prm-12318.jpg

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRM-12318&N=700+115&autoview=sku
IM currently using this on my 1985 corvertte but have used others in the past

IF YOUR ON A REALLY LIMITED BUDGET, TAURUS FANS FROM A SALVAGE YARD CAN NORMALLY BE FOUND DIRT CHEAP........HERES INFO LARRY POSTED

9325100_0660.JPG

9325100_0661.JPG

"The two diagrams above show how to build and wire an auto relay switched 2-speed FORD TAURUS fan.
Parts needed......10 guage wire for the power circuit. 18 guage wire for the control cicuit.
Three relays..... 1) High speed relay, Tyco VF7-12V,70amps
2)Low speed relay and Aux relay, standard BOSCH relays
Two switches,,,,.1)Low speed temp. switch- Adj. Flexilite, FLX-31147 from SUMMIT.
2)High speed temp. switch from Standard Motor Products, TS-158 or TS-392.
I put the adj. low speed switch and the three relays in seperate relay boxes and mounted them in the engine comp. The high speed temp switch I mounted where one of the heater hoses went. Est. cost of parts, less the fan, is $50.00 . 10 guage wire is used in the power circuit and 18 guage in the control circuit. The 12V switched control circuit can be connected to any live connection with ignition on.
The control circuit shown is as follows..... When the temp. reaches your set low speed figure, let's say 190 deg.the low speed relay is energized thru pin 86, 85 connects to 87A of the AUX relay and pulls 30 of that relay, 87 of the low speed relay and 30 are closed sending power to the fan to run at low speed.
When the temp. reaches your high speed switch figure, let's say 210 deg. pin 86 of the AUX. relay energizes thru 85 and 30 releases from 87A of the low speed relay and connects with 85 of the high speed relay which thru 87 of that relay powers the fan to run at high speed.
ARE we confused yet?????
When the temp falls below the high speed swich figure the AUX relay will switch back to the low speed relay.
Therfore low and high speeds will never be on at the same time and you will have the following conditions...
1) No fan on.
2) Low speed on.
3) High speed on."

BTW
the out flow connection for the trans flluid from the trans which should go to the radiator LOWER connection.

Just remove or re-route the upper radiator connection and run it thru your choice of external cooler and back to the trannie return line (upper radiator connection).

DON,T OVER COOL YOUR ENGINE!
normal, depends on several factors, its state of tune, how you drive, type of oil, etc. but you want it to reach at least 215f on occasions to burn off moisture and anything under 240f is fine, even expected and normal, for short runs while you drive hard, most stock vettes have the oil temp of around 200F-210F while cruising at low rpms


it takes approximately 214F-215F to burn all the moisture out of oil, that moisture comes from outside air when the engine cools and from combustion when the engines not up too temp. and can form acids and rust if it sits, if your cars driven frequently IE it seldom sits for several days at a time your unlikely to have significant moisture forming, especially if the cars garaged most of the time its not in use.
short trips seldom allow the engine to fully reach a stable temp, the state of tune,the outside temps, the amount and type of oil and the temp switch on the fans , the T-STAT, allow or prevent the oil reaching full temp,the RPMS and LOADS the enge sees effects the temps
If you drive the car frequently and seldom let it sit for days at a time AND change oil fairly regularly (3000-4500 miles between changes) you may be fine with the slightly lower temps ,especially if the cars garaged but you can easily check the condition of your engine, pull a valve cover and inspect its inside surface carefully, it should be clean, possiably stained but not have minor acid etching and there should be no sludge , build up,or chocolate milk or waxey film, if there is your engines not running hot enought or your not changing the oil,filter ETC. frequently
coolfins.jpg

BTW I DON,T KNOW WHO SELLS THESE BUT IVE GOT TWO ON MY CORVETTES OIL FILTERS AND THEY EASILY REDUCE OIL TEMPS 7-15 DEGREES
to raise temp install a 190F-200F T-stat, oil temp generally runs 15F-25F higher than COOLANT temps
img212.gif


"MY TRANS FLUID TEMP RUNS 223F is this NORMAL"


no! its NOT normal its a bit higher than normal , normal is about 200F OR LOWER, (check you trans fluid level )and find out the reason WHY its running hotter because its sure to hurt the life span of the transmission, ID add an aux trans cooler, if you can,t find out why its running hotter than it should, check the radiator for crap in the airflow path,check the radiator fluid and make sure the fans are operating, check the sensors, trouble codes, engine timing, etc.
trans_life_expectancy.jpg

fluidtemp1.jpg


http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Cooling/

http://www.compperformancegroupstor...Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TC&Product_Code=378000

have you installed a higher stall converter or differant rear gear ratio?

adding a aluminum deep sump oil pan helps as it extends down into the airflow under the car, I installed the 2 qt pan, as the 3 qt hurt the under car road clearance too much, but I still needed to install an aux trans cooler once my engine combo started making about twice the stock torque

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81691

"3/8 inlet on an oil cooler is too restrictive racing or not.
redvetracr"

Id totally agree with that statement if all the oil needed too be run thru the cooler,to keep the temps low but I don,t run all the oil flow, in fact the ENGINE OIL cooler rarely gets much oil flow unless Im racing as theres a temp control switch that opens only when necessary,because just the 10 qt baffled oil pan ON MY ENGINE, does a very effective job of keeping the oil temps reasonable most of the time, just some of the oil bye-passes to the cooler at times, most bye-passes the cooler and it all bye-passes the cooler except on the rare occasions when the oil temp exceeds about 230F. in fact my main problem was getting the oil to REACH and stay above 215F in normal driving where it tended to stay at about 200F-210f untill I starting racing the car, or driving with the over drive gear locked out, then it jumps slowly to 245f-250F which thou higher than ID prefer is still ok for short durrations, I installed the oil cooler mostly to keep the oil temp steady not that it was mandatory, it was the trans fluid cooler that was and is mandatory in my particular application

BTW you can do the same thing if you want to, the oil temp sensor port just above the oil filter in the block, can be used with a TEE, as a feed too the oil cooler , or the more traditional sandwitch adapter over the oil filter, or a modified dual remote oil filter adapter can be used,and theres several options for return paths to the block or oil pan
Ive had about 6 differant configs on my engine and trans cooler set-ups over the last two years alone, trying to get everything to function IDEALLY:thumbsup:
remember my hobby is PLAYING WITH, and EXPERIMENTING ON these three corvettes, I own (especially the 1985)and changing combos, cams, heads, exhaust systems , etc, is part of the deal



flx-45951_w.jpg

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLX-45951&N=700+115&autoview=sku

BTW THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN OIL COOLER AND A TRANS COOLER, if your looking to run all your ENGINE oil thru a cooler... that's fine, but Id bet you'll find like I did that that's not necessary with a decent baffled high capacity oil pan, and that running SOME of the oil flow is all that's necessary
if its correctly plumbed into the system, but Id point out that there are thermostatically controlled valves that limit the flow thru the cooler too maintain a minimum oil or trans fluid temperature

BUT YOU WILL WANT ALL THE TRANS FLUID TOO RUN THRU A COOLER
 
Last edited by a moderator:

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l

yes reading thru the links is worth your time and effort
If your having cooling issues while the cars stationary but not when the cars moving theres an excellent chance that the problem is lack of low speed air flow rates, a larger more effective fan or a more efficient fans or adding a pusher fan or more efficient fan shroud would help. clear pictures of the car,s engine compartment, radiator fans, fan shroud etc would help here a great deal.
keep in mind oil does a good deal of the heat transfer, in an engine, so an oil pan with a larger than stock capacity and an oil cooler with a built in electrical fan can do a good deal to lower engine temps.
keep in mind automatic transmissions tend to add a significant amount of heat to radiators that use the lower section to cool the transmission, adding a large efficient trans fluid cooler to the car can also significantly reduce the heat loads on the radiator
BTW one frequently overlooked factor, in cooling your engine or adding an additional oil cooler, is your alternator size,in amps and wiring the alternator correctly, if your running a 70amp-100 amp stock alternator and using electric fans to cool the engine,its not going to provide the power required to spin the fans nearly fast enough to cool the engine like a better 200 amp alternator can

ENGINE OIL, & TRANS FLUID COOLERS CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE AT REDUCING FLUID TEMPS
oilcoolertempsp.png


TRANSMISSION FLUID OR OIL COOLER LINES FABRICATED BY YOUR LOCAL HYDRAULIC SUPPLY

CE08122-lrg.jpg

TEND TO BE FAR STRONGER AND MORE DURABLE THAN
transline1.JPG
`
THE HOSE AND CLAMPS I SEE USED OCCASIONALLY

oilvis1.jpg

oilvis2.jpg


BTW HERES AN IMPORTANT TIP, IF YOUR INSTALLING A REMOTE OIL COOLER, IT is really common for guys to use lines that are far too small, that restrict flow oil flow or select a transmission or oil cooler that has to small of internal passages, shop carefully you want a MINIMUM of 1/2, or AN8 line size and 5/8" or AN10 is BETTER.

markvioilp.png

MARK VI BLOCK OIL CONNECTIONS

many guys don,t realize that adding an oil and/or a transmission fluid cooler, with its own fan and radiator that allows those liquids to be cooled separately, to your engine and drive train, significantly reduces the heat load on the radiator, and generally allows the engine temps to decline noticeably. in fact just adding a high volume oil pan and a transmission cooler can drop your engine coolant temps 20F-30F in many cases
prm-12318.jpg


remotefil.jpg

remote mounted oil filters can be used along with an oil cooler to to increase transmission cooler efficiency
OilCooler01z.jpg

a rather common issue with adding oil coolers, is that many of the coolers available can significantly restrict fluid flow because of the small restrictive internal cross section of the internal tubing, AN #6 and 3/8" tube coolers can be quite restrictive, the AN#8 are better but DUAL AN#8 coolers and AN#10 lines generally work the best, and there's also frequently limited space to position a cooler in the outside cool air flow mandating a powered fans.
the solution to both issues can and frequently does require use of two different oil coolers but placed in series this can further increase flow restrictions, the solution is in use of larger internal cross sectional area,transfer lines and mounting the twin coolers in parallel thus doubling the effective cross sectional area reducing the flow restriction the cooler potentially could produce if used in series

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-part ... olers2.htm

http://www.grandprix.net/upgrades/cooler.html

http://www.iroczone.com/projtranscooler.htm

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/ ... index.html

http://www.bulkpart.com/transmission-cooler.html

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1280&p=2741&hilit=+tank+oil+drops#p2741

http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/tech-e ... ooler.html

heres a decent trans cooler

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

heres a decent trans and engine oil combo cooler

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=11043&p=48999#p48999

MOST guys run 3/8" lines to the transmission cooler, theres not much sense in running larger than 3/8"-1/2" lines simply because the restrictions in the trans in and out ports make larger lines wasted effort and smaller lines are too restrictive
I find it rather amazing that many guys (even a few corvette owners) don,t realize that the oil cooler between the block and oil filter does remove a noticeable amount of heat from the engine oil,or that in some cases that they even have an oil cooler factory installed. ITS OIL FLOW that absorbs and initially transfers heat away from the bearings and valve train not coolant.
coolfins.jpg

BTW I DON,T KNOW WHO SELLS THESE BUT IVE GOT TWO ON MY CORVETTES OIL FILTERS AND THEY EASILY REDUCE OIL TEMPS 7-15 DEGREES


1985oilc1.jpg

1985oilc2.JPG

1985oilc3.gif


heres my corvettes trans cooler

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

notice the 3/8" NPT fitting size, measure very carefully and a local hydraulic supply can make you custom lines to fit your cars custom trans cooler installation, making the install far easier, btw if you do what I did the spare tires removed and the carry lid that covers it needs to be modified but it works great

heres one way to hook up cooler lines in tight places

banjovv.jpg


banjo2v.jpg


banjo3v.jpg


keep in mind you can install a heat controlled valve that routes cool trans or engine oil back to the engine or transmission but one either fluid heats up it routes the hot fluid thru the cooler
4050-animation-small_zps4471668c.gif

oillinetstata.jpg

Id also point out that swapping to a 7-8 quart oil pan significantly increases the surface heat transfer area and in my experience that significant reduces oil temps all by itself.
Id also point out that adding an auxiliary oil cooler with electric fan ,mated with larger AN#10 oil line size,and use of the longer higher capacity oil filter(s) to any corvette (STOCK OR BIG BLOCK ENGINE SWAP) adds effective oil flow volume to the engine, this can be a HUGE advantage when theres limited room due to ground clearance or header clearance issues that limits the size of the oil pan itself that can be used.


heres a cooler several guys I know use.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15900/10002/-1

you will rather obviously need to carefully and accurately,
measure the location you want to install any fluid cooler and its fluid line connections, you should seriously consider a AN#8 line size as minimum


prm-12318.jpg


you can easily run the trans fluid or oil cooler without the thermostat controlled feed/return lines,
a cooler with AN#8 or 1/2" line size preferred
many guys that do that have a toggle switch that shuts the fan on the auxiliary oil cooler off until the fluid comes up to operational temps.
will a thermostat valve on the auxiliary cooling lines help maintain a stable fluid or oil temp,
and speed up the time it takes for the engine and transmission fluids to come up to operational temps? hell yes
,but theres millions of guys that have run a cooler without one.
on the down side, both engines and transmissions tend to last longer when the lubrication fluids are both stable and consistently in the ideal range.

autotransf1.jpg


diagramoilroute.gif

http://shop.perma-cool.com/1073-Oil-The ... s-1073.htm



heres a cooler several guys I know use.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15900/10002/-1

you will rather obviously need to carefully and accurately,
measure the location you want to install any fluid cooler and its fluid line connections, you should seriously consider a AN#8 line size as minimum
 
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grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l

like most things READ THE SUPPLIED DIRECTIONS BEFORE YOU START THE INSTALLATION and FOLLOW THEM
where the trans fluid lines are connected , to the cooler or the radiator if your using both,is not as important as getting the flow direction and order of the components correct to maximize the aux trans coolers effect on the trans fluid temp. as its returning to the transmission,running it thru the radiator insures its at least warm, running it thru the aux cooler after drops the temp further.

Trans coolers almost ALWAYS suggest the flow of hot trans fluid, leaves the transmission, and in theory the hot trans fluid should route from the transmission too the lower radiator trans cooler and from there up to the radiator exit and route to the axillary or added second trans cooler and from there to the trans feed in, to maximize the cooling of the trans fluid temp.the route goes in the bottom of the secondary cooler and exit the top to eliminate the potential for air being trapped in the cooler. all you need to do to find the direction of flow if your unsure is disconnect the upper radiator trans cooler line and tap the starter with the coil or distributor feed electric disconnected too observe the pressurized fluid flow, direction.
now for the reality part, most guys want to disconnect only one factory installed trans line and in most cases its which ever trans coolant lines easy to access, and regardless of any other factor THAT is how the trans cooler is installed, leaving one factory line in place and splicing in a trans cooler,or disconnecting a single connection on one line and splicing in the aux cooler and its new feed and return lines to replace the one removed factory feed or return line.
the strange thing is, it will tend to help drop transmission fluid temp. at least some regardless of how the lines are routed, now obviously following directions, and thinking the routing thru has a much better effect on the results but adding one to the system usually helps even if its routed wrong as it still tends to transfer heat away from the trans fluid.
BUT if you take the time to do things correctly you'll find you can drop the trans fluid temps entering the transmission by 50F or more degrees with a decent cooler that's equipped with its own electric fan.
markvioilp.png

MARK VI BLOCK OIL CONNECTIONS
"HEY GRUMPYVETTE?
does the trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator do any good as its just dumping hot air into the radiator fins"


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it should be obvious that if your trans cooler is transferring heat from the hot trans fluid to the air flow going thru it, and that pre-heated air is going directly thru the radiator behind it ,that you've effectively lowered the engine coolant radiator efficiency with that trans cooler placement,compared to not having the air heated as it flows thru the radiator, so the real questions are
(1) does it really matter?

the answer depends on how much extra cooling capacity your radiator has and how much heat the trans coolers transferring to the radiator, in most cars with an automatic transmission the lower radiator is already a transmission fluid cooler that is already transferring a good deal of the transmission fluid heat to the radiator, and adding the additional transmission fluid cooler with its own electrical fan increases the surface area that air flow passes over to absorb and transfer heat, so the additional surface area may or may not hurt the total cooling as much as not reducing the trans fluid temps as it flows thru the lower radiator.

(2) WHAT ARE MY OPTIONS?
obviously locating the trans cooler where its good good air flow and can,t transfer that heat to the radiator is preferable, but in most cars the clearances and optional locations are limited.
I placed mine (with its powered electrical fan)up under the car where the rear tire carrier goes but thats not an option on all cars

more coolant volume, moving faster, larger or more efficient coolant pumps, radiators with more surface area per square inch,radiators with larger and wider coolant passages, through a larger radiator surface area exposed to more air flow mass,have always resulted in more effective cooling, adding accessory , added trans fluid and oil coolers with powered fans that disperse the heat load to adjacent coolers from the O.E.M. radiator and adding longer oil filters, larger capacity transmission or engine oil pans also tend to increase cooling efficiency
youll find several myths on the internet.

read these links (CAREFULLY)
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-cooling.149/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...il-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-1237

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-system-flow-rates-and-heat-transfer.9880/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sion-and-oil-cooler-increases-durability.176/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-the-cooling-system-works-basics.853/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-choose-an-electric-fan-in-4-easy-steps.7774/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/aluminum-radiator-sources.755/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/basic-info-on-your-v8-lube-system.52/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ans-cooler-on-a-c4-corvette.10514/#post-70074


 
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fast84vette

Well-Known Member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission life

grumpy i have one of those cooler with the fan that was on my car when i bought it but it was not connected at all, so i removed it and some left over oil was dripping from it. its seems they may have used that to cool my oil. would that be better then the oil cooler filter one you told me to buy?
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission life

yes a seperate fan cooled oil cooler will be better,
you still need to connect it to the engine, so youll still need an adapter to route the engine oil from the high pressure port on the engine thru the new lines youll need to install to the oil cooler and back from the cooler back into the oil pan or block passages, an oil cooler with an electric fan will work effeciently provided its mounted in an area with unrestricted outside air flow in most cases
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-13266

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-13267

der-13266_w.jpg

these in line fluid coolers like the one pictured above are not as effective as the larger surface area fan equipped fluid coolers
like the one below but theres no doubt they can be used to lower the transmission fluid or oil temps if,
your very limited on available space to mount a fluid cooler



https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15850
der-15850_xl.jpg

these guys sell adapters
http://www.cantonracing.com/

btw I recently installed a cooler on a 1984 corvette where the spare tire normally mounts inside the tire carrrier but replaced much of the carrier cover with preforated aluminum sheet, its wired to a switch that controls it on the dash next to a gauge showing trans fluid temp, the cars owner says on most short trips its seldom used but its near mandatory on longer trips in traffic

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=1518&p=3473&hilit=preforated#p3473

http://www.campbellenterprises.com/...sion-pans/aluminum-deep-transmission-pans.htm

http://www.yourcovers.com/newindex2.htm

http://www.partshp.com/Pans.htm

http://www.transmission-specialties.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=98

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=662

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=400306+304252+115&autoview=sku

http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts.aspx?partfamilyid=5955

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...t-cleanable-and-re-useable-oil-filters.15994/
Im many cases adding a deeper transmission pan that adds two or more quarts will lower the average transmission temp. at least 15 degrees, while its certainly not as effective as a trans cooler with an electric fan, but far better than nothing at all!, and youdon,t need to run coolant lines, just be aware that if theres limited ground clearance under the car, a deeper trans pan may be a problem when speed bumps and steep driveway access is encountered
 
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fast84vette

Well-Known Member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission life

Can I connect my oil cooler to the perma-cool oil filter from summit that you first suggested?

Also, on the Canton racing site, I am confused as to what hoses and parts to use.
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l

you need to understand how each component or adapter works,you install in any cars transmission cooling system works, on one type one passes coolant thru the adapter between the oil filter and the block to cool oil flow exiting the filter, since coolant generally runs about a minimum of 20F degrees cooler than oil temp at any point that helps cool the oil, the other way thats commonly used is an adapter that ROUTES oil to a remote oil cooler to thru lines that can use a temp controlled bye-pass valve that routes cool transmission fluid in a shorten route back to the transmission, but one the trans fluid temps exceed about 170F the valve opens and routes the hot trans fluid thru the transmission cooler to reduce the fluid temps. air fan cooled cooler with no coolant involved at all, but just outside air flow thru the remote located transmission fluid cooler, much like an oil cooler.

diagramoilroute.gif


cooler+diagram.jpg


SandwichPlate1.jpg

SandwichPlate2.jpg



one of the most common mistakes less than experienced performance enthusiasts, face and very commonly over-look, is the fact that the internal cross sectional area on many hydraulic and fuel line fittings are considerably more restrictive to flow that the fuel limes or hydraulic lines inside diameter they were designed to be used with, and it varies a great deal between different manufacturers, now ideally the fittings internal passage cross sectional area is both consistent and the same or greater that the tube or hydraulic line size, it listed to match, , so a 1/2" inside diameter fuel line, or hydraulic lines?hoses, for example should have components for the connections and fittings that have significantly smaller internal cross sectional areas, it does you very little good to use lets say, AN#8 or half inch fuel lines if the internal cross sectional area of the connections and fitting used with those lines is only 3/8" or smaller in cross sectional area,this is an area where dealing with a local hydraulic supply shop that has the correct tools and fittings to custom fabricate your fuel lines, coolant or lubrication lines is a very good idea!
talk to a local professional at your local hydraulic supply, measure accurately, take the time to explain what your trying to accomplish and take several pictures to show them what your doing, and get them too fabricate any high pressure fuel or coolant lines and related fittings



fitr1.jpg

fitr2.jpg

fitr3.jpg

*
Up to 45 GPH= 3/4 GPM = 5/16" or -04 AN
*
Up to 90 GPH = 1.5 GPM= 3/8" or -06 AN
*
Up to 250 GPH =4.2 GPM= 1/2" or -08 AN
nearly ideal for transmission and oil coolers :D
*
Up to 450 GPH =7.5 GPM= 5/8" or -10 AN
*
Up to 900 GPH = 15GPM 3/4"or -12 AN

fitcr1.jpg

fitcr2.jpg

fitcr3.jpg

fitcr4.PNG


more coolant volume, moving faster, larger or more efficient coolant pumps, radiators with more surface area per square inch,radiators with larger and wider coolant passages, through a larger radiator surface area exposed to more air flow mass,have always resulted in more effective cooling, adding accessory , added trans fluid and oil coolers with powered fans that disperse the heat load to adjacent coolers from the O.E.M. radiator and adding longer oil filters, larger capacity transmission or engine oil pans also tend to increase cooling efficiency
youll find several myths on the internet.

read these links (CAREFULLY)
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-cooling.149/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...il-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-1237

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-system-flow-rates-and-heat-transfer.9880/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sion-and-oil-cooler-increases-durability.176/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/how-the-cooling-system-works-basics.853/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-choose-an-electric-fan-in-4-easy-steps.7774/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/aluminum-radiator-sources.755/


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-does-make-a-differance.117/page-2#post-89422

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/basic-info-on-your-v8-lube-system.52/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ans-cooler-on-a-c4-corvette.10514/#post-70074


 
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fast84vette

Well-Known Member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission life

ok i look on the summit site and it seems that the oil filter sandwich adapter to told me to use is the only one i can use for my oil cooler. could that part be used with oil and coolant?
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l
dualfilt4.jpg


51794.jpg

when clearances allow longer length, quality oil filters provide significantly larger surface area, this tends to both reduce pressure drop,
and increase the useful filtration time before the filter tends to partially clog due to trapped debris,
yes they still require frequent replacement but they tend to do a better job, over the same time frame.
one question that always comes up, is the ideal, size and length of the fluid transmission lines required,
too feed and return hot oil from remote mounted oil coolers and transmission fluid coolers, the simple answer, visit a local professional hydraulic supply shop after taking careful measurements and verifying the type of fittings, thread types used etc.
I would strongly suggest you select, and ask to have fabricated, lines designed to handle 250F temps and 350 PSI.

keep in mind most performance cars with an auto transmission and a higher rpm stall converter, will need an auxiliary trans fluid cooler, Id strongly suggest you find one with an electric fan and 1/2" or AN#8 line size as you'll want to allow a minimum of 2 -3 gallons a minute trans fluid flow rate.
enginer oil coolers and remote mounted engine oil coolers w also benefit from use of a MINIMUM of a AN#8/1/2" inside diameter fluid transmission line .

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-accumulator.1280/#post-48139

Up to 250 GPH =4.2 GPM= 1/2" or -08 AN
nearly ideal for transmission and oil coolers :D
*
Up to 450 GPH =7.5 GPM= 5/8" or -10 AN
*
Up to 900 GPH = 15GPM 3/4"or -12 AN


diagramoilroute.gif



keep in mind oil does almost all the initial engine cooling so adding a larger efficient oil cooler with a fan
, and as large an oil pan as clearances allow goes a long way toward reducing engine temps,
you certainly will see a difference if a properly sized and installed oil cooler is used.

airoilcl1.jpg

you don,t need something this large in most cases
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-700040
airoilcl2.jpg

something like this makes a noticeable improvement
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15800

remember to accurately measure the area you intend to install any oil cooler,
and leave lots of room for the connecting high pressure oil feed & return lines and access to connect them.
rmo11.jpg

there are several options a remote filter mount and the oil cooler are one good option

keep in mind that any trans fluid cooler should have a minimum of AN#8 or 1/2" line size and an electric cooling fan, normally youll see ratings like (22000, lb vehicle weight )

the problem many of us have is in finding the room to install the cooler and for many of us the price seems a bit high, but if you can spend $150-$350 on a cooler that will easily prevent the vast majority of transmission failures related to running too hot
(MANY IF NOT MOST DURABILITY ISSUES RELATE TO THIS)
and a decent performance transmission and torque converter could easily cost 10 too 15 times the cost of the transmission cooler
the cost seems to be easier to justify.
yes the coolers with the AN#6 /3/8" line size are cheaper , but they generally are flow restrictive and in my opinion a waste of time and money

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15820
der-15820_w.jpg


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15830
der-15830_w.jpg


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-45951
flx-45951_w.jpg

sizing-fittingthread.gif


sizing-anthread.gif

adapter

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

naturally you need to verify it fits your threads ETC, you mount this where the filter was mount a separate filter mount and run oil lines thru the cooler also

heres weld on bungs

http://atbending.thomasnet.com/viewitem ... &forward=1

transmission fluid temp sensor locations not all that critical as long as theres decent access, and is on the pressurized line leaving the trans or on the transmission pan itself and headers, starter,the oil filter, road clearance, etc. don,t pose a clearance issue,that will damage the sensor or make accessing it a p.i.t.a. Id suggest you use an adapter to the transmission cooler that's already set up for a sensor, or use the out line from the transmission to the cooler as a location

http://www.jegs.com/p/Russell/762999/10002/-1
799femaletfitting.gif


77112311.gif


IVE always preferred the BYE_PASS versions as I felt dirty oil is preferable to NO OIL,which is what you get if the filter gets clogged with assembly lube or blows a seal ring with the non-bypass versions and not wanting to wait for the engine to reach operational temperatures which while not truly mandatory with a non- bypass adapter its a good idea to at least allow the oil to get warm before driving to keep the filters from excessive pressures

bypass style
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SES-3-60-08-900/
ses-3-60-08-900_w.jpg



non-bypass style

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-22-570/
ctr-22-570_w.jpg


remote filter style
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-23683/
mor-23683_w.jpg



there may be a mis -conception here,in some of your minds, the trans or oil cooler with a thermostat controlling oil flow, or transmission fluid directing fluid flow rates thru the cooler doesn,t block fluid flow thru the transmission or the engine, at any time, it re-routes SOME , or a percentage of the oil flow , or transmission fluid thru the cooler,most guys hook it up so theres only part of the oil or transmission fluid passing thru the oil cooler,
theres info on how to install an oil flow t-stat! packaged with the t-stat!

below 180f the t-stat loops 80% or more of the oil back to the engines without passing it thru the oil cooler, as temps rise above 180f more and more oil is directed thru the oil cooler, until by about 210f temp range 80% or more routes thru the cooler.
When oil temperature exceeds 180°F the thermostatic valve slowly closes, allowing 95% flow through the oil cooler. At temperatures below 180°F the valve is open, with 90% of the oil bypassing the cooler. The remaining 10% of the oil flows through the cooler, maintaining constant system pressure, preventing air pockets and eliminating cold oil shock. Flows up to 20 gallons per minute (GPM). Rated to 200 p.s.i. Thermostat mounting kits containing four brass fittings, four stainless steel hose clamps and two nylon tie mounts are sold separately.



http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/down ... ostats.pdf

http://97.74.103.94/files/thermos$.pdf

http://www.jegs.com/i/Perma-Cool/771/10 ... tId=748655
diagramoilroute.gif

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=176

the oil t-stat comes with port identification and installation instructions as to oil line routing,when oils below 180 f most of it routes in on the top left port (feed from engine) and back out the lower left (back to the engine), as temps increase more oil is routed out the top right(too oil cooler) and once thru the oil or transmission cooler back into the t-stat on the lower right, which feeds oil to the lower left and back to the engine, theres always 100% full oil flow, but at cool temps about 15% routes thru the cooler, at higher temps about 80% routes thru the cooler

oiltstat.jpg

oiltstat1.jpg


which line is the return line?

http://www.transmissioncenter.org/Auxil ... _Where.htm

MANUFACTURER TRANSMISSION MODELS TRANS RETURN LINE INLET

ON THE TRANSMISSION
General Motors TH125 / TH125C / 3T40 Top
General Motors TH180 Rear
General Motors TH200 / TH200-4R Bottom
General Motors TH325 / TH325-4L Top
General Motors TH350 / TH350C Top
General Motors TH400 / 3L80 / 3L80H Top
General Motors 440-T4 / 4T60 / 4T60E Horizontal Fitting
General Motors 700-R4 / 4L60 / 4L60E Top
General Motors ST300 Top
General Motors 4T80E Main case
General Motors 4L80E Lower front
General Motors TH425 Outer, farthest from Torq. Conv.
General Motors MX17 Bottom
General Motors A130L Bottom
General Motors F3A Bottom
General Motors Aluminum Powerglide Top
Ford A4LD Top
Ford AXOD Top
Ford AOD / FIOD Bottom
Ford ATX Nearest Pump
Ford C3 / C4 / C5 / C6 / E40D Rear
Ford AOD-E / 4R70W Top
Ford AXOD-E / A4XN / A4XS Bottom
Ford CD4E Nearest Pump
Ford F4EAT Nearest Pump
Ford FMX (cast iron) Rear
Chrysler TF904 / TF727 Rear
Chrysler A500 / 518 / 618 Rear
Chrysler A404 / 413 / 470 / 670 Top
Chrysler A604 / 41TE Front
Chrysler 42LE Top
 
Last edited by a moderator:

fast84vette

Well-Known Member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission life

so this would work better? where would i connect the filter? i dont see how it would go
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l
coolfins.jpg

From the Manufacturer: Cool Collar Lab Test Results:

Test Results Laboratory Test

Castrol GTX 10W30 motor oil was heated to a temperature of 220 degrees F. and pumped simultaneously through two identical oil filters. One oil filter had a Cool Collar attached, the other did not. A fan was used to direct seventy degree F. ambient air over both oil filters at a velocity of fifty miles per hour. The oil exiting the filter having the Cool Collar installed indicated a h eat removal approximately equal totwo degrees per minute. Whereas the oil temperature exiting the filter without the Cool Collar showed no change. (Typically an automotive engine passes all the oil through the filter more than once per minute).

Summary: With a constant heat source applied to the oil, the temperature dropped to 202 degrees F (from 220 degrees F.) with five minutes. This translates to a 12% temperature decrease of the heat added to ambient temperature.

Liquid Cooled Automotive Engine (Road Test)

This test was an actual highway test. The car used was a late model Corvette equipped with digital readout oil temperature and coolant temperature gauges. On a 72 degree F. day, at 65 miles per hour, the oil temperature read a constant 221 degrees F. The water temperature was 195 degrees. The corvette was then pulled off the road and a Cool Collar was installed. Testing was then resumed. Within a distance of five miles the Cool Collar was responsible for lowering and maintaining the oil temperature at 203 degrees F.

Summary: Our tests again indicated a 12% approximate reduction above ambient temperature of oil heat. On similar testes, it was found that after installation of the Cool Collar the oil temperature will typically drop near to the level of the engine coolant temperature.

Air Cooled Engine (Road Test)

The test vehicle used was a 1978, 911SC Porsche, equipped with a Carrera style oil cooler. The car was driven 65 MPH on a 85 degree day for approximately 35 miles. The car was then stopped and a I.R. thermometer was used to check the temperatures at various points along the oil lines, tank and cooler. In addition, the reading on the dash temperature gauge was noted. An average temperature of 220 degrees was logged.

Testing was then resumed, with the Cool Collar installed on the oil filter, over the same coarse and speed. At the end of the 35 miles the temperatures were then checked again using the infra-red thermometer at the same points as before. The indicated temperature readings showed an average reading of 208 degrees, a reduction of 12 degrees.
an adapter similar to this mounts where the oil filter originally goes on the block, (but verify the threads match) , two lines attached at the block adapter ,these lines go out to the components in the remounted filter and cooler circuit, the suction out side goes to an oil cooler like this
ctr-22-595_w.jpg
a line enters the cooler and a second one leaves the cooler and routes to the remote oil filter mount where the pressure line connects
one factor thats frequently over looked is the oil feed and return line internal size and line heat rating,THINK IT THRU, now it should be obvious that fittings tend to have smaller more restrictive holes thru them than the hose internal dimensions of the fittings used with that hose, a fitting designed for 3/8" hose wont allow full 3/8"hose or component oil flow rates, AN-6 is normally considered about equal to 3/8" but thats doesn,t tend to be true, AN-8 size fittings are usually used to get decent flow in a 3/8" oil cooler , if your oil cooler has 3/8" internal passages youll want an AN#8 line size to insure the MINIMUM 3/8" internal passage size is maintained and not restricted by use of the internal passage size of AN#6 fittings

read these links

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/transmiss ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=662&p=12989&hilit=trans+cooler#p12989

an adapter like this is used where the filter mounts


http://www.livermoreperformance.com/can ... pters.html



der-13720_w.jpg

one line goes in one side of the oil cooler the out line from the oil cooler goes to a remote filter mount adapter a line leaves that and goe to the other line on the adapter on the block where the filter used to mount completeing the circuit.

think of it as a circle, pressurized oil goes out thru the block adapter to the filter, next to the cooler and out of the cooler , it routes back to the suction side of the block adapter and back into the engine
 
Last edited by a moderator:

fast84vette

Well-Known Member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission life

ok i understand now, but i think i will just buy the perma- cool 185 product you first told me to get and connect my oil cooler to it. that will still do the job right?
 

fast84vette

Well-Known Member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission life

hey grumpy here is a pic of the cooler that was on my car, could i use it as an oil cooler?

IMG_2985.jpg


IMG_2986.jpg
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission life

it might clean up and pressure test but ID throw it in a dumpster and buy a new one before ID even THINK ABOUT using that even if I had to get a second job to do it.
long term durrability and having faith in a components condition are important factors in moding your car, that appears to be rather coraoded, possiably leaking
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l

you'll generally have something like this replacing the oil filter at the stock location
mor-23683_w.jpg

the oil pressure out line will flow thru a remote filter mount like this
prm-1791_w.jpg

the out line gets routed to a thermostatically controlled valve like this that has four lines , two lines (feed and return) to the oil cooler mounted beyond it
and the pressure feed from the oil filter and the out line feeding oil back to the engine
oiltstat1.jpg

then to a cooler like this
prm-12318.jpg


http://spockboxes.com/TransmissionFluid ... QGZWmdbVug

http://www.allpar.com/eek/atf.html


oil route

engine oil pressure out from old filter location>>>>>>>>>engine oil filter>>>>>>>>>thermostatic control valve>>>>>>>>>>>>oil cooler
engine oil passage and bearings <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<thermostatic control valve<<<<<<<<<<<<<oil cooler
diagramoilroute.gif

KEEP IN MIND THE OIL LINES FROM THE ENGINE AND/OR THE TRANS FLUID LINES (OR BOTH) CAN BE USED WITH A SEPARATE BYE-PASS T-STAT STYLE VALVE IN THE LINES, THAT GO TO THE AUX COOLERS, TO BYE-PASS the COOLERS UNTIL THE FLUIDS HEAT UP, TO THE POINT COOLING THE FLUIDS BENEFICIAL
cooler+diagram.jpg

which line is the return line?

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/transmiss ... index.html

http://www.transmissioncenter.org/Auxil ... _Where.htm

MANUFACTURER TRANSMISSION MODELS TRANS RETURN LINE INLET

ON THE TRANSMISSION
General Motors TH125 / TH125C / 3T40 Top
General Motors TH180 Rear
General Motors TH200 / TH200-4R Bottom
General Motors TH325 / TH325-4L Top
General Motors TH350 / TH350C Top
General Motors TH400 / 3L80 / 3L80H Top
General Motors 440-T4 / 4T60 / 4T60E Horizontal Fitting
General Motors 700-R4 / 4L60 / 4L60E Top
General Motors ST300 Top
General Motors 4T80E Main case
General Motors 4L80E Lower front
General Motors TH425 Outer, farthest from Torq. Conv.
General Motors MX17 Bottom
General Motors A130L Bottom
General Motors F3A Bottom
General Motors Aluminum Powerglide Top
Ford A4LD Top
Ford AXOD Top
Ford AOD / FIOD Bottom
Ford ATX Nearest Pump
Ford C3 / C4 / C5 / C6 / E40D Rear
Ford AOD-E / 4R70W Top
Ford AXOD-E / A4XN / A4XS Bottom
Ford CD4E Nearest Pump
Ford F4EAT Nearest Pump
Ford FMX (cast iron) Rear
Chrysler TF904 / TF727 Rear
Chrysler A500 / 518 / 618 Rear
Chrysler A404 / 413 / 470 / 670 Top
Chrysler A604 / 41TE Front
Chrysler 42LE Top
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l

the engine oil filter remains in its original location and functions normally, most guys tend to use a extended oil filter that provides extra filtration surface area to the filter medium, and some extra oil capacity, but thats not mandatory.
adding some magnets to trap loose metallic debris, from broken or worn parts helps reduce potential problems
http://www.magnet4sale.com/samarium-cobalt-discs/
accumulator.jpg

read thru the linked info
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=985&p=12326&hilit=accumulator#p12326

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=117

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4558

additional external or secondary transmission fluid filters can be and frequently are used on race cars to isolate and reduce potential damage, when things go badly bye trapping crud in the transmission fluid before it reaches the oil cooler, or can route back to the transmission
(remember most transmissions have magnets and a fluid filter in the transmission oil pan.

mor-42000.jpg

http://www.jcwhitney.com/deluxe-remote- ... 17700.jcwx

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-10677/
prm-10677_w.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Randy_W

reliable source of info
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l

I have one thing to say about coolers, if you run one on a 4L60E, better use a t-stat, they don't like being too cool, shift quality will suffer if they don't get warm enough. I fought that for a while on my '67 until I finally removed the add on cooler and got crisp tire barking shifts.
 

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler generally increases transmission l

thats a valid point, and it applies to engine oil coolers as well, but engine oil coolers work best if set to come on at 215F-220F range while trans coolers work best in the 155F-170F range and a great reason many guys find they need the oil cooler installed with a fluid t-stat, but Ive seldom seen any trans cooler that has the t-stat installed in the feed lines that won,t limit the lower temp to about 155F- 170F simply because the temp bias spring in the t-stat only starts to open at that temp , so below that temp 90% of the fluid by-passes the trans cooler,as the trans fluid heats a higher and higher percentage of the flows routed thru the cooler but if the cooler starts to cool the fluid to below that 150F-170F range the spring controlling the by-pass tends to start restricting flow thru the cooler, so obviously both an electric fan controlled by a temp sensor,and the inline fluid t-stat,by-pass that reacts to temp changes can be used to regulate and control the fluid temps

this is one reason why combining both the engine oil cooler and transmission fluid cooler in a single dual unit is not always ideal,in every car, as an example on my corvette I found that I did need an oil cooler but did need a trans cooler , because once I installed a custom 10 qt oil pan on my 383 the oil temp stayed in the desired range due to the pans much larger surface area and the and much larger capacity, but the transmissionfluid due to the 3200 stall speed converter did need to be cooled
mocal-ot2.jpg

4050-animation-small_zps4471668c.gif

http://www.thinkauto.com/oilstats.htm

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13021/?rtype=10

http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... _15721.pdf
coolertstat.jpg

oilstaty.png

If your going to run an effective oil cooler with a fan youll generally want a thermostat controling oil temps to be sure the oils neither too hot or too cold, youll generally want the oil to rather rapidly heat to a 200F-21fF range during normal operation,to insure its hot enough to boil off moisture , and reduce sludge but run through the cooler to prevent it getting over about 220F where the temp tends to degrade lubrication effecincy
diagramoilroute.gif


those aluminum finned tube coolers work, are reasonably cheap, very durable ,but a bit restrictive

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-41205/overview/
MOR-41205.jpg


but they don,t cool trans fluid or oil no where near as efficiently/fast as the larger fan equipped coolers with the AN#8 line size
and in either case finding a place to mount any cooler where you can keep it out of sight and still easily access fresh outside air flow,
is usually a problem for most people

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15850
der-15850_w.jpg


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15950
der-15950_w.jpg

BTW if your just looking to buy vs build a decent oil pan heres some sources

other sources

http://www.kevkoracing.com/

http://www.stefs.com/stefsindex.htm

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorybrowse.asp?CatCode=11000

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/oil-pans-from-milodon.asp

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/

http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/1289/SBC-MODIFIED-&-STREET-STOCK-WET-SUMP-PANS

http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/1833/SB_CHEVY_CIRCLE_TRACK_6-1::2"_OIL_PAN

http://www.billetfab.com/pans.htm

http://www.bakerengineeringinc.com/ProCam.html#wetsump

http://www.drysump.com/index1.htm

Now the question always comes up, why do I need a high volume oil pump and 6-8 quart oil pan, the main reason youll use a high volume pump to begin with is to provide more volume of oil,at any given rpm,oil that cools the rings, rockers, bearings,that are being stressed to levels the original engineers never expected. etc,plus at high rpm levels there 2-2.5 quarts of oil in the valve covers, lifter gallery and trapped rotating with the crank assembly if you don,t have a windage screen and baffled oil pan, now hit the brakes or accelerate hard, oil stacks into one end of the oil pan and theres darn little oil left above the oil pump pickup,in a 4-5 quart oil pan,but the mods are really , only required if you have increased the oil flow rates,by increasing the bearing clearances,and re directing oil and as a result you also need to control the flow better and have more oil in the sump, ordinarily the engines needs are supplied, and the adequate volume can easily be supplied by the standard oil pump if you have not increased the clearances and done a few other mods to increase the oil flow rates to parts in the engine to increase the flow rates to cool and lubricate the components.
so the obvious question is why do you bother doing the mods in the first place, if the standard pump will work, the answer is the standard pump works fine up to the limits it was designed for, and thats a engine of about 265-327-350 cubic inches and spinning under about 6500rpm that produces under about 370hp,
once you start to exceed that theres a few modifications that can, if done correctly increase the cooling and engine durability, but those mods require a greater volume of oil flowing over parts to cool and lubricate them than the stock pump cam provide, if you read the linked info youll see that there are modifications to a, stock sbc to convert it into a race engine that are neither needed or useful on a street engine, but due to the far higher stress levels in a race engine those mods become more important to durability.
it should be rather obvious that a decent oil cooler, on your cars lube system and on your cars transmission,that keeps the transmission fluid temps in the ideal temperature range will tend to maintain the more consistent and lower oil temperature ranges both your engine and transmission will require to last under harsh operating conditions. it should be equally obvious that a well designed oil pan and windage screen that will help maintain a consistent supply of that oil to the engine and if possible a deeper aluminum transmission pan that allows you to increase the volume of transmission fluid will help maintain those consistent temps., there are several good dual path coolers available but if you've got the room two separate 6 pass coolers with 3/8" npf fittings and matching lines would be ideal.


Ive been using this recently on my transmission, as my 10 qt custom oil pan seems to provide adequate oil cooling by it self

prm-12318.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-12318/

heres a similar dual trans fluid & separate engine oil cooler

prm-13311.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-13311/?rtype=10

related threads
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=3144

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187&p=7231&hilit=control+cooler#p7231
 
Last edited by a moderator:

grumpyvette

Administrator
Staff member
Re: a transmission cooler , and /or oil cooler generally increases transmission, and engine life expectancy
I would strongly suggest you never consider use of fuel line and AN type fitting for use as transmission fluid transfer lines even if a transmission fluid cooler is used,
if you bring the current fittings that fit the transmission to a local hydraulic supply shop along with the exact length of the lines you need and explain what your trying to do , they can fabricate the correct, high pressure and high heat tolerant, transmission fluid lines to your exact specifications for VERY REASONABLE COST, thus preventing what might otherwise become a potential weak link.
common rubber fuel line will NEVER hold up under the heat and pressure of a transmission fluid transfer line ,long term.
most rubber fuel line , even FUEL INJECTION LINE is rated to work at UNDER 200 psi and UNDER 250 F, your typical transmission fluid will occasionally exceed 250F and commonly run in the 160F-210F temp range even with a trans fluid cooler
http://www.novaflex.com/productcart/pc/features_pdf/mjarine Fuel Hose2.pdf

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6113/Barricade_Training_Final.pdf

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/flex-fuel-lines.4381/#post-14833

hydraulic line is usually rated OVER 2500 psi and up to 300F temps

REAR DIFFERENTIAL LUBES

http://www.lastgreatroadtrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/gear-oil-comparison.pdf


RELATED

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/1_2_Custom_Hydraulic_Hoses_s/335.htm

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Hydraulic_Hose_s/84.htm

http://www.discounthydraulichose.co....htm?Click=2&gclid=COWnvIjq9ckCFVQ2aQoddYEF_g

http://www.parker.com/literature/Hose Products Division/Catalog 4400 PDF Files/Master_Table_of_Contents.pdf
you can safely assume that adding the oil cooler and connecting lines will require a minimum of at least 2 more quarts of trans fluid to the combo of the trans capacity and converter capacity listed below AS WILL adding a deeper oil pan, starting the car in neutral and adding the minimum listed is a start point, wait till the transmissions up to temp ( 150f-170F) and use the dipstick to judge when its full, keep in mind that if it takes lets say 12 quarts with a deep pan and an oil cooler, youll need to drive the car around the block and recheck, once your satisfied its at the correct level you write it down, but don,t expect the converter, or oil cooler to drain 100% on the next fluid change so it may take a bit less on a subsequent refill
heres a few related thread links, you might want to read thru, and Id also point out that almost any automatic transmission will have about 1/2 its fluid capacity in the transmission itself and 1/3rd-to-1/2 its fluid capacity or more in the connecting lines and the torque converter , but it could be significantly more if you installed remote mount filters and a fluid cooler , as both will potentially add a good deal more durability and fluid cooling capacity to the system.
Id also point out that adding an additional , properly sized trans cooler with the correct fluid transfer line sizes,with a powered fan,can very easily maintain the trans fluid temps in the 150F-170F range even under high stress performance application conditions
now I know few cars with less room to mount an efficient oil cooler with a fan than a c4 corvette
176.jpg

theres certainly not much room under the hood and ground clearance is a huge issue
176mm.jpg


I first calculated the size of cooler I wanted , then realized there was no place it would easily fit, until I thought about replacing the rear spare tire with the cooler by purchasing a second spare tire carrier cover and a sheet of thin perforated steel plate so I could cut out a decent size area of the surface and cover it with the of thin perforated steel plate tpo protect the fins on the cooler yet allow a good deal of easy access to the airflow under the car, and mounting the cooler in place of the spare tire allows easy servicing,from behind the car nothing obvios shows or hangs down as i painted the perforated screen flat black, just like the spare tires carrier cover,and since the trans cooler is mounted inside the spare tire cover its up out of the way of road trash, yes you'll need to run the lines from the transmission back to the oil cooler but after careful measuring I had a local hydraulic shop fabricate two 5/8" inside diam trans fluid lines that are designed to work at up to 300 psi and 300f temp, to fit the cooler with the correct end adapters
der-13720_w.jpg

96ex2.jpg


SOURCES FOR CORVETTE CARRIER COVERS

http://www.corvettesalvage.com/index.ph ... cts_id=471

http://www.corvettebuyers.com/c4vettes/ ... enance.htm

http://www.vette2vette.com/

C4_STC_9496.jpg

C4a9496.jpg

perforated-metal02-big.jpg

http://etereman.com/blog/general-motors ... ansmission
Number of Quarts Transmission
(stock pan) Number of Quarts
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInf ... pacity.asp

GM TH350 4-5 quarts


GM TH400--6-7 quarts

GM Powerglide 4-5 quarts

GM 700R4/4L60E 6 quarts

GM 2004R ..6 quarts
6

GM 4L80E 7.7-8 quarts


Chrysler TF 727...5 quarts


Chrysler TF 904..5 quarts


Ford C4...5-1/2quarts


Ford C6 .. 7 quarts


Ford AOD/AODE..6-1/2 quarts
retli.png

you generally feed the fluid in the bottom and out the top line connection to prevent air trapped in the lines
naturally youll want to route all lines as far from headers as you can to prevent burns on the lines


Cooler Fittings
General Motors Ford Chrysler

GM Transmission Cooler Fittings


Powerglide - OEM
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper â…›" Pipe Return/in
Lower â…›" Pipe Cooler feed/out


Powerglide - Dedenbear
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper ¼" Pipe Return/in
Lower ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out


TH200C Metric, 2004R
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out
Lower ¼" Pipe Return/in


TH350, TH250
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper ¼" Pipe Return/in
Lower ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out


TH400
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper ¼" Pipe Return/in
Lower ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out


700R4/4L60/4L60E/4L65E
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper ¼" Pipe Return/in
Lower ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out


4L80E (1991-1996)
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper ¼" Pipe Return/in
Lower ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out


4L80E/4L85E (1997 & later)
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Rear ¼" Pipe Return/in
Front ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out

coolerdiagram.jpg

Ford Transmission Cooler Fittings

C3, C4, C5, C6
Fitting Location Thread Size Thread Size Flow Direction
Front ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out
Rear ¼" Pipe Return/in


AOD
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out
Lower ¼" Pipe Return/in


AODE/4R70W
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Upper ¼" Pipe Return/in
Lower ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out


E4OD/4R100
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Front ¼" Pipe Cooler feed/out
Rear ¼" Pipe Return/in


Chrysler Transmission Cooler Fittings
All Torqueflite
Fitting Location Thread Size Flow Direction
Front â…›" Pipe Cooler feed/out
Rear â…›" Pipe Return/in

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...fo-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/#post-34937

LOOK THIS OVER
http://www.transmissioncenter.org/Auxil ... _Where.htm


Size of Converter Number of Quarts

13" 5

12" 4

11" 3-1/2

10" 3

9" 2-1/2

8" 2

7" 2

TH350 has a Mechanical (cable) Detent Cable.
TH400 has an Electrical Detent Switch.
retli.png

Easiest way is the shape of the drainpan.
investing in a couple high heat tolerance magnets to place in any transmission oil pan certainly won,t hurt durability either
proper magnets trap metallic debris
SmCo Samarium Cobalt Disc Magnets
http://www.magnet4less.com/
enginemagn.jpg


Samarium Cobalt MAGNETS HELP
http://www.magnet4sale.com/smco-disk-magnet-dia-1x1-4-samarium-cobalt-magnets-608-f-temperature/
magnets are ceramic and glass hard, don,t try to drill or grind them, as they can shatter
SHOP CAREFULLY , WHEN YOU GO TO BUY AN OIL PAN for your engine or transmission, <AND ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WILL FIT YOUR CAR CORRECTLY AND ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS ON MATCHING COMPONENTS OR PARTS THAT WON,T FIT

MILODON,
http://www.milodon.com/

CHAMP
http://www.champpans.com/products/c/oil-pans/

CANTON,
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/category/1501/Chevy-SS--Road-Race-Oil-Pans/1.html

MOROSO
http://www.moroso.com/

AVIAID
http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbc.html


STEFS
http://www.stefs.com/products/oilpans/circletrackwetsump.htm


HAMBURGERPERFORMANCE
http://www.hamburgersperformance.com/

KEVKO
https://kevko.myshopify.com/


IF you've wondered why I suggest buying and using a well designed BAFFLED oil pan with 7-8 quart capacity its to prevent the oil from uncovering the oil pump pick-up under performance use.
without control baffles oil sloshes away from the oil pump pick-up

Slosh1.jpg

Slosh3.jpg

Slosh2.jpg

Attached Images
attachment.php
attachment.php

transz2v.png

Tranmission%20Length.jpg

th350ua.jpg
th400ua.jpg


if your cars got an automatic transmission and a higher stall speed converter its a damn good idea to install an auxiliary trans fluid cooler with an electric fan,
OK FIRST LOOK UP THE TRANSMISSIONS FLUID CAPACITY
HERES A LINK


http://fluidcapacity.com/
http://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/autotransfluid

keep in mind most performance cars with an auto transmission and a higher rpm stall converter, will need an auxiliary trans fluid cooler, Id strongly suggest you find one with an electric fan and 1/2" or AN#8 line size as you'll want to allow a minimum of 2 gallons a minute trans fluid flow rate

its CRITICAL to keep the trans fluid clean and ideally changed about every 70K miles and use of a auxiliary cooler that keeps the fluid temp under about 170F is going to extend service life a good deal longer
Ive helped do at least 7 of these big block engine swaps now for other people and obviously results vary with the components being used but most of the swaps required a trans cooler and Ive installed 2 now in the rear tire carrier area, 200f -230f temps on trans fluid are very common on stock transmissions, with stock original engines when your beating the hell out of the trans racing, but 190f-210f on the street while cruising is more common using the stock radiator trans cooler in the lower radiator trans fluid cooler.
I had a larger than original capacity aluminum aftermarket radiator most of the time , in my corvette even with the current 383 sbc, and if I ran a 180f T-stat both the coolant and trans fluid tended to run about 190f UNTIL I swapped to a 3200 stall converter , where the temps jumped noticeably by about 20f higher, if I pushed the car ,but those temps dropped rapidly if I was just cruising in O.D. but I felt I needed a better system, to cool the trans fluid, adding the additional rear mount aux cooler drops temps to 150f-160f with the fan on and about 170f=180f with it off even if Im pushing the car so I wired a switch to the fan, and a sensor that turns the fan on at 175F

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16759

http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... -16759.pdf
garage25.jpg

cooler+diagram.jpg

faq098.jpg


internal cross sectional area of the fluid transfer lines matters, anything less than 1/2" or AN#8 can be restrictive to flow
Sizing-FittingThreadx.gif


fluidcapk.png

fitsp1.png

fitsp2.png


next time you have the trans oil PAN OFF, WHY NOT WELD or BRAZE IN A TRANSMISSION FLUID DRAIN

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessorie...utm_term=4577129470680387&utm_content=General




http:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
B

bob

Guest
I wanted to install a trans cooler in my car but frankly the budget would not seem to stretch to cover the cost of a decent trans cooler, that I see listed in JEGS or SUMMIT,
GRUMPY suggested we visit the local auto salvage yard to find out what was easy to disconnect and purchased used, from a larger luxury car or truck.
Or that we look around on AMAZON,CRAIGS LIST, OR EBAY.

http://www.etrailer.com/faq-about-engin ... olers.aspx

theres plenty of high dollar options
http://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/tran ... 70470_0_0/

http://www.transmissioncoolers.us/categ ... ooler.html

http://www.batinc.net/coolers.htm

http://www.transmissioncoolers.us/categ ... olers.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-out-a-transmission-rebuilder.10588/page-2
If you think about it a bit all a knock sensor does is retard ignition advance timing,
to the point the engine no longer detonates due to too much heat in the combustion chamber for the advance curve and fuel octane.
obviously if you have experience tuning a certain engine and your fuel octane is fairly consistent, you can change the ignition advance curve to match ,
the engines documented and tested power potential.
that does not mean a knock sensor is not useful , simply because fuel quality and engine cooling efficiency varies with outside air temps.
and your cars radiator and oil and trans fluid cooling efficiency, but a good tuner can avoid getting into detonation range, with a known engine combo, a high percentage of the time.
obviously boosting your fuels octane, and fuel to air ratio to cool the combustion helps so thats the first part of the equation,
retarding the cam timing reduces effective compression,
retarding the ignition curve will reduce cylinder heat and effective pressure,
all factors should reduce detonation,
easily 60% of the most common engine detonation is not in the normal adult humans hearing range
detonation damage is cumulative!

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...nock-sensor-and-related-info.3515/#post-51569

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...nock-sensor-and-how-it-works.5372/#post-32681


http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...nock-sensor-and-related-info.3515/#post-51570

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ow-to-reduce-its-likely-hood.9816/#post-40644

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-octane-for-compression-ratio.2718/#post-7057

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/octane-boosters.613/#post-46230

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/detonation-damage.2883/#post-31942

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/verifying-your-real-advance-curve.4683/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ans-cooler-on-a-c4-corvette.10514/#post-70074

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/bearings-and-oil-flow.150/#post-68206

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/unwanted-engine-bay-heat.12186/#post-59072

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-48374

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-cooling-system-works-basics.853/#post-46671

but theres also some far more reasonably priced, if you look more carefully, and we found that there were several in good condition for around $50 and at that price a salvage yard will frequently include , a 12 volt fan, and duct work shield at the salvage yard.
so a hour or so spent wandering around with a few tools in a salvage yard may save you considerable cash


http://www.transmissioncoolers.us/1404.html

http://www.transmissioncoolers.us/1405.html

http://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/tran ... 38981_0_0/

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... uid+cooler
 
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