Transmission over temp

[Grumpy]

Transmission over temp

Transmission over temp warning comes on when I'm at the track. It takes about 10 minutes of hard use for it to come on. Granted it's Florida and it's been 90 plus degrees. I've been trying to find a system schematic to think of what might be going on. Anyone have any knowledge of the 2007 Z06 tranny system? Does it have a thermostat? An electrical or mechanical pump? Does it always send fluid through the cooler? Etc etc.....Thx!

as trans fluid temps go up transmission durability drops rapidly your stock trans fluid cooler in the lower radiator has never been designed to cope with performance stress loads, youll NEED an added cooler if your going to beat on the car
BTW you may find freeze plugs that look like this on blocks and cylinder heads, especially from engine rebuilder machine shops, the "exterior outside BUTTONs are made from a very special low melt metal like bismuth thats specifically designed too melt and distort if the blocks coolant temp reaches about 250-260F indicating and proving beyond question that you over heated the engine and voided your warranty

I don,t remember, where I purchased most of the oil/trans fluid coolers Ive used ,
but I've purchased and installed several oil and trans fluid coolers
over the decades, almost all were used 1/2" or an#8 connections and were purchased from summit or jegs
as always read carefully,
and measure accurately, remembering you must be leaving room for the hot oil or trans fluid hose and connections
and access to get the cooler in and mounted and connections made too it!
you would certainly not be the first or last guy to buy a cooler that will not fit in the space you though it would,
due to the connections and hoses required or forgetting about the thickness or lack of easy access.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15820

https://www.summitracing.com/search...rtOrder=Ascending&keyword=oil cooler with fan

https://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15850/10002/-1

https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/sto...&submodel=&engine=&Nrpp=&No=&persistYmm=false

http://www.silver-seal.com/category/shop.1_cylinder_head_rebuilding.2_heat_tabs/
http://www.engineheattabs.com/products

btw torque converters are frequently painted with a very special paint that changes color at a specific temperature for the exact same reason, proof you voided the warranty and failed to run the transmission fluid thats supposed to act as a lubricant and coolant within the designed temperature range, they did not select the pink or purple because they like the color, its done to reduce warranty cost issues , if you over heat the converter its waranty is void

https://www.paintwithpearl.com/shop-custom-paint/temperature-changing-paint/
https://www.paintwithpearl.com/shop-custom-paint/temperature-changing-paint/
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sion-and-oil-cooler-increases-durability.176/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-cooler-info-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ans-cooler-on-a-c4-corvette.10514/#post-44478

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...y-in-building-a-good-engine.11682/#post-54682

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-12335

 

[Grumpy]

my 1985 corvette came with a factory oil cooler, that runs engine coolant through separate but contacting internal passages, this warms the oil faster getting it flowing but tends to reduce the heat engine oil can reach as it absorbs oil heat effectively transferring it too the engine coolant on the car, where its transferred too air flow through the radiator, this does a decent job if your cruising but not on a high performance application where a larger transmission fluid cooler does a significantly better job

keep in mind oil does almost all the initial engine cooling so adding a larger efficient oil cooler with a fan
, and as large an oil pan as clearances allow goes a long way toward reducing engine temps,
you certainly will see a difference if a properly sized and installed oil cooler is used.

you don,t need something this large in most cases
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-700040

something like this makes a noticeable improvement
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15800

remember to accurately measure the area you intend to install any oil cooler,
and leave lots of room for the connecting high pressure oil feed & return lines and access to connect them.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-13266

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-13267

these in line fluid coolers like the one pictured above are not as effective as the larger surface area fan equipped fluid coolers
like the one below but theres no doubt they can be used to lower the transmission fluid or oil temps if,
your very limited on available space to mount a fluid cooler


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15850

 

[Grumpy]

I was recently asked if there was any benefit to adding transmission fluid additives to transmission fluid,
getting back too the original intent on the thread, I think adding a well designed transmission fluid cooler ,
transmission fluid like engine oil tends to degrade and accumulate micro crud that accelerated wear,
theres no additives you can add that will do as much good as,simply replacing the old worn transmission fluid,
and replacing the transmission filter occasionally.
and changing out the transmission filter and trans fluid too a good synthetic based fluid ,every 70K miles or so,
and use of a separate electrically fan cooled fluid cooling heat exchanger that will keep the fluid temps under 170F ,
will do more for most automatic transmissions long term durability than any additives will, do to help extend the service life of any existing high mileage and possibly over stressed and over heated transmission fluid.
OK FIRST LOOK UP THE TRANSMISSIONS FLUID CAPACITY
HERES A LINK

http://fluidcapacity.com/

http://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/autotransfluid

https://www.speedcooling.com/1984-1989-Corvette-C4-Aluminum-Radiator.html

keep in mind most performance cars with an auto transmission and a higher rpm stall converter, will need an auxiliary trans fluid cooler, Id strongly suggest you find one with an electric fan and 1/2" or AN#8 line size as you'll want to allow a minimum of 2 -3 gallons a minute trans fluid flow rate.
enginer oil coolers and remote mounted engine oil coolers w also benefit from use of a MINIMUM of a AN#8/1/2" inside diameter fluid transmission line .


Up to 250 GPH =4.2 GPM= 1/2" or -08 AN
nearly ideal for transmission and oil coolers
*
Up to 450 GPH =7.5 GPM= 5/8" or -10 AN
*
Up to 900 GPH = 15GPM 3/4"or -12 AN

its CRITICAL to keep the trans fluid clean and ideally changed about every 70K miles and use of a auxiliary cooler that keeps the fluid temp under about 170F is going to extend service life a good deal longer

Ive helped do at least 7 of these big block engine swaps now for other people and obviously results vary with the components being used but most of the swaps required a trans cooler and Ive installed 2 now in the rear tire carrier area, 200f -230f temps on trans fluid are very common on stock transmissions, with stock original engines when your beating the hell out of the trans racing, but 190f-210f on the street while cruising is more common using the stock radiator trans cooler in the lower radiator trans fluid cooler.
I had a larger than original capacity aluminum aftermarket radiator most of the time , in my corvette even with the current 383 sbc, and if I ran a 180f T-stat both the coolant and trans fluid tended to run about 190f UNTIL I swapped to a 3200 stall converter , where the temps jumped noticeably by about 20f higher, if I pushed the car ,but those temps dropped rapidly if I was just cruising in O.D. but I felt I needed a better system, to cool the trans fluid, adding the additional rear mount aux cooler drops temps to 150f-160f with the fan on and about 170f=180f with it off even if Im pushing the car so I wired a switch to the fan, and a sensor that turns the fan on at 175F

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16759

http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... -16759.pdf

internal cross sectional area of the fluid transfer lines matters, anything less than 1/2" or AN#8 can be restrictive to flow

measure very carefully youll need to mount the transmission cooler in a location that allows clearance for both the cooler and its supply lines and in a location with easy access to outside air flow so the heated air can rapidly be replaced with cooler outside air, for effective heat reduction to the fluid to effectively take place.
ID suggest no smaller than AN#8 line (1/2") size and a 24000 lb weight rated cooler if you have the room to mount one on a serious race application, with a high stall speed torque converter.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15850/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15900/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-45908/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-13182/overview/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-48374

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/replacing-trans-fluid.10749/#post-46958

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...fo-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/#post-89196

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ans-cooler-on-a-c4-corvette.10514/#post-44478

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...fo-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/#post-34937

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/hot-trans-smell.7704/#post-26227

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/transmission-fluid-filters.4910/#post-17143

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/flushing-a-transmission.5302/#post-15712

 

[Strictly Attitude]

I discussed trans fluid with a group a of transmission gurus once. Both the guys are well known in the performance building market and well respected. If it came down to changing your trans fluid with high quality expensive fluid once every 70,000 or doing it twice as often for the same cost with a cheaper fluid they would take that any day. I run tractor hydraulic and trans fluid in my 700r4 buy it by the 5 gallon pale good for 2 changes I keep pretty constant on it. Like to at least do a pan drain every year and a full flush filter change every 3.

 

[Grumpy]

thats probably great advice,
but we both know dozens of people (even many with performance cars)
that have more than likely NEVER changed their transmission fluid

 

[Strictly Attitude]

I have to agree there Grumpy not every one loves there cars as much as us or puts in as much work to keep them tip top.

 

[Grumpy]

keep in mind that any trans fluid cooler should have a minimum of AN#8 or 1/2" line size and an electric cooling fan, normally youll see ratings like (22000, lb vehicle weight )

the problem many of us have is in finding the room to install the cooler and for many of us the price seems a bit high, but if you can spend $150-$350 on a cooler that will easily prevent the vast majority of transmission failures related to running too hot
(MANY IF NOT MOST DURABILITY ISSUES RELATE TO THIS)
and a decent performance transmission and torque converter could easily cost 10 too 15 times the cost of the transmission cooler
the cost seems to be easier to justify.
yes the coolers with the AN#6 /3/8" line size are cheaper , but they generally are flow restrictive and in my opinion a waste of time and money
one question that always comes up, is the ideal, size and length of the fluid transmission lines required,
too feed and return hot oil from remote mounted oil coolers and transmission fluid coolers, the simple answer, visit a local professional hydraulic supply shop after taking careful measurements and verifying the type of fittings, thread types used etc.
I would strongly suggest you select, and ask to have fabricated, lines designed to handle 250F temps and 350 PSI and a MINIMUM of AN#8 or 1/2" inside diameter.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15820

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15830

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-45951

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

A Massive Trans Cooler is a must have Grumpy.
Factory stuff is crap.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

 

[Grumpy]

well I see your sons continuing too grow, and seems to be taking an interest in what your doing.
https://www.monstertransmission.com/Transmission-Line-Pressures_ep_201-1.html
https://www.monstertransmission.com/Trans-Cooler-Return-Line-Chart_ep_71.html
\
https://transmissioncoolerguide.com/transmission-cooler-lines/

https://www.advanceadapters.com/tech-vault/c-automatic-transmission-cooler-lineslocation/

those aluminum finned tube coolers work, are reasonably cheap, very durable ,but a bit restrictive
http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/remote-oil-filters.14755/#post-80757

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-cooler-info-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-filters-related-info.2080/#post-54352

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/#post-49790

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ers-and-oil-filter-clearance.4904/#post-13526

these threads and several links may help

https://www.amsoil.com/AmsoilGarage/internal/vehiclelookuppage.aspx?zo=531421&page=appguide

https://www.autozone.com/repairinfo...NameForTitle=Transmission+Fluid+Type/Capacity

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-41205/overview/

but they don,t cool trans fluid or oil no where near as efficiently/fast as the larger fan equipped coolers with the AN#8 line size
and in either case finding a place to mount any cooler where you can keep it out of sight and still easily access fresh outside air flow,
is usually a problem for most people

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15850

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15950

one of the most common mistakes less than experienced performance enthusiasts, face and very commonly over-look, is the fact that the internal cross sectional area on many hydraulic and fuel line fittings are considerably more restrictive to flow that the fuel limes or hydraulic lines inside diameter they were designed to be used with, and it varies a great deal between different manufacturers, now ideally the fittings internal passage cross sectional area is both consistent and the same or greater that the tube or hydraulic line size, it listed to match, , so a 1/2" inside diameter fuel line, or hydraulic lines?hoses, for example should have components for the connections and fittings that have significantly smaller internal cross sectional areas, it does you very little good to use lets say, AN#8 or half inch fuel lines if the internal cross sectional area of the connections and fitting used with those lines is only 3/8" or smaller in cross sectional area,this is an area where dealing with a local hydraulic supply shop that has the correct tools and fittings to custom fabricate your fuel lines, coolant or lubrication lines is a very good idea!
talk to a local professional at your local hydraulic supply, measure accurately, take the time to explain what your trying to accomplish and take several pictures to show them what your doing, and get them too fabricate any high pressure fuel or coolant lines and related fittings

*
Up to 45 GPH= 3/4 GPM = 5/16" or -04 AN
*
Up to 90 GPH = 1.5 GPM= 3/8" or -06 AN
*
Up to 250 GPH =4.2 GPM= 1/2" or -08 AN
nearly ideal for transmission and oil coolers
*
Up to 450 GPH =7.5 GPM= 5/8" or -10 AN
*
Up to 900 GPH = 15GPM 3/4"or -12 AN

READ THESE LINKS THEY ARE RATHER HELPFUL
https://www.good-guys.com/hotnews/good-tips-engine-oil-coolers/

https://www.enginebasics.com/Engine Basics Root Folder/oil cooler basics.html

https://www.verus-engineering.com/single-post/2016/07/10/Oil-Cooling-A-Deeper-Look

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-t...ntons-engine-oil-cooler-and-why-you-need-one/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/tips-installing-engine-oil-cooler/


https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00133
Before We Begin

For the purposes of this article, we will focus on plate-type oil-to-air coolers, such as the Setrab Pro Line. Finned-tube coolers and oil-to-water heat exchangers operate just a little differently. Since we don't offer either of those types, we're going to take the liberty of ignoring them.

Also, in order to avoid apples-to-oranges comparisons, please remember that all assertions imply "all other variables being equal." AGREED, you can change another part of the equation to get the answer you want. Like a track test or dyno run, changing just one factor at a time makes the effect of that change much clearer.


Start with the Chart

Setrab USA has gone to the trouble of providing us with a very handy oil cooler application chart (PDF format) that gives us a starting point without having to do math. The chart covers engine oil coolers, transmission coolers, and even power steering and valve spring coolers. Note that the chart is arranged by part number, not by application. Browse the chart a bit and you'll see that most applications are listed under more than one cooler size.


Oil Flow Restriction and Cooling Performance: Rules of Thumb

Here are some broad, oversimplified, very general principles to keep in mind when choosing a cooler. Remember that all of these imply "all other variables being equal."

• Oil coolers introduce a flow restriction. Our goal is to minimize this restriction.
• There is a direct relationship between plate length and restriction.
  Longer plates (rows) = more restriction.
  Shorter plates (rows) = less restriction.
• There is a direct relationship between plate length and cooling effect.
  Longer plates (rows) = more cooling.
  Shorter plates (rows) = less cooling.
• There is an inverse relationship between the number of plates and restriction.
  More plates (rows) = less restriction.
  Fewer plates (rows) = more restriction.
• There is a direct relationship between the number of plates and cooling effect.
  More plates (rows) = more cooling.
  Fewer plates (rows) = less cooling.
• Two coolers with similar cooling area will have similar cooling performance.

In the list above, the only apparent conflict we have to wrestle with is in plate length. Longer plates cool better (good), but at the expense of flow (bad). Fortunately, the last point in the list above suggests a good workaround: We can choose a shorter cooler to regain some of the lost flow, and simply add more rows to regain some of the lost cooling. Even better, adding more rows simultaneously improves flow even further.

Let's take an example from the Setrab application chart and do just a little math. Say we have a high-performance engine putting out about 325 HP. The chart suggests at least three possibilities: Series 9 with 20 rows, Series 6 with 25 rows, or Series 1 with 50 rows. All three of these coolers have an effective cooling area right around 75 square inches, so their cooling performance is similar.

But the Series 9 will have the most flow restriction (longest rows x fewest rows), and the Series 1 will have the least restriction (shortest rows x most rows). As it turns out, the 25-row Series 6 will have about half the pressure drop of the 20-row Series 9, and the 50-row Series 1 will have roughly 1/10th the pressure drop of the Series 9!

Using real numbers, with a 10 GPM flow rate as an example (not uncommon for an engine running 6000 - 8000 RPM), the 20-row Series 9 will introduce a 5 psi pressure drop from inlet to outlet. (Note that a single 90 degree fitting in your oil line could cause more restriction than that.) The 25-row Series 6 will cause a 2.6 psi drop. The Series 1 will show less than a 1 psi pressure drop. The flow restriction from the Series 1 option may not even register on your oil pressure gauge.


Installation Factors

There are just two general rules when it comes to mounting the cooler. (Remember, "all other variables being equal.")

• Oil coolers require airflow to take heat away. More airflow is better.
• Cooling depends on the difference in temperature between the air and the oil. Cooler air cools better than warmer air.

The airflow equation is a little complicated. As airflow velocity increases, the additional benefit decreases (the graph begins to flatten around 40 mph). The important takeaway is that your oil cooler needs to be exposed to airflow. The largest oil cooler will be ineffective if it's sealed in the trunk or mounted flat up against the firewall. Air must be able to get into the cooler, and it must be able to get out of the cooler. This is what carries away the heat.

In many cars, this suggests mounting the cooler near the radiator. After all, Detroit / Stuttgart / Tokyo spent a lot of time and effort to locate the water radiator where it would get the best airflow. It seems like a no-brainer to follow their lead. But that leads to the second point above.

Air temperature has a direct effect on oil cooler efficiency. Hot air does not cool as well as cool air. This is why we turn on the AC when we're hot, and not the heater. Mounting the oil cooler behind the radiator can reduce the efficiency of the cooler by as much as half. A better solution would be to mount the cooler in front of the radiator. The trade-off is that the efficiency of the radiator will be affected by the air coming through the cooler, but the effect should be much smaller because the cooler is typically smaller than the radiator. An even better option would be to mount the cooler next to the radiator (assuming there is room) or below the radiator (if it can be protected from damage).

The air temperature difference also means that if we run two oil coolers, they should be plumbed in parallel, rather than in series. If you run two coolers in series, the oil in the second cooler would be cooler (closer to the air temperature) than the oil in the first cooler, making it much less efficient. Another bonus to plumbing in parallel is that it has the same effect as adding more rows to the cooler: Less flow restriction for an even happier oil system.

Much more information about mounting oil coolers for maximum air flow with minimum drag can be found in Chapter Nine of Tune To Win by Carroll Smith.


Final Tips

• Always mount the cooler so that it is fully supported, but isolated from vibration and chassis flex.
• Whenever possible, plumb the cooler into the low-pressure (scavenge or return-to-tank) part of the system.
• If the cooler must be pressurized (as in a wet sump oiling system), locate the cooler after the filter.
• Mount the cooler with the outlet fitting (or both fittings on a Pro Line cooler) at the top to avoid air pockets.
• If your cooler is too efficient, tape or block off part of it to bring oil temperatures back up to the desired temperature.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

well I see your sons continuing too grow, and seems to be taking an interest in what your doing.

those aluminum finned tube coolers work, are reasonably cheap, very durable ,but a bit restrictive

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-41205/overview/

but they don,t cool trans fluid or oil no where near as efficiently/fast as the larger fan equipped coolers with the AN#8 line size
and in either case finding a place to mount any cooler where you can keep it out of sight and still easily access fresh outside air flow,
is usually a problem for most people

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15850

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15950

one of the most common mistakes less than experienced performance enthusiasts, face and very commonly over-look, is the fact that the internal cross sectional area on many hydraulic and fuel line fittings are considerably more restrictive to flow that the fuel limes or hydraulic lines inside diameter they were designed to be used with, and it varies a great deal between different manufacturers, now ideally the fittings internal passage cross sectional area is both consistent and the same or greater that the tube or hydraulic line size, it listed to match, , so a 1/2" inside diameter fuel line, or hydraulic lines?hoses, for example should have components for the connections and fittings that have significantly smaller internal cross sectional areas, it does you very little good to use lets say, AN#8 or half inch fuel lines if the internal cross sectional area of the connections and fitting used with those lines is only 3/8" or smaller in cross sectional area,this is an area where dealing with a local hydraulic supply shop that has the correct tools and fittings to custom fabricate your fuel lines, coolant or lubrication lines is a very good idea!
talk to a local professional at your local hydraulic supply, measure accurately, take the time to explain what your trying to accomplish and take several pictures to show them what your doing, and get them too fabricate any high pressure fuel or coolant lines and related fittings

*
Up to 45 GPH= 3/4 GPM = 5/16" or -04 AN
*
Up to 90 GPH = 1.5 GPM= 3/8" or -06 AN
*
Up to 250 GPH =4.2 GPM= 1/2" or -08 AN
nearly ideal for transmission and oil coolers
*
Up to 450 GPH =7.5 GPM= 5/8" or -10 AN
*
Up to 900 GPH = 15GPM 3/4"or -12 AN

I have found the opposite to be True Grumpy.
If you recall I hand fabbed custom stainless brackets to mount right behind the 63 GP Front Grille passenger side.
Lower bumber has huge slots to let air in too.
Placement critical for best results.
Underside middle of car the worst.
Rear like your C4 Vette Ok

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Probably better NASCAR STYLE OR IMCA ROAD RACE.

THAT MOROSO TRANS COOLER FLAT OUT WORKS.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

To use 8 AN Fittings such as a TH400 I do believe you have to redrill the main aluminum case Grumpy.
Then Tap new threads.

6AN Fittings off the shelf from Russell and Earls.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

Straight through design too Grumpy.
End plate has 1 180 degree bend.
3/4 ID TUBE.

China coppies of Real Deal Moroso likely suck.
You know me...no chuna crap on my vehicles.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-640530

Just Russell makes #8 AN Cooler line fittings like for a GM TH400 Grumpy direct off rhe shelf.
If you look it appears still 1/4 " inch ID.
Have to buy a set and verify.
Drilling to 3/8" ID Likely break through and weaken.
Best solution is to strip down to bare case.
Drill and Tap.
Or TIG Weld in 8AN fittings.

 

[Maniacmechanic1]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-640520

What I bought and used.
Russell #6AN Fittings for GM TH400.
Fits many other GM Models.