Transmission Remote Filter Flow Rate?

Discussion in 'transmission and Drive train' started by Indycars, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    I've looked all over and can't find a flow rate for any automatic transmissions going to the cooler. I'm wanting to add a remote filter and it would be helpful to know what kind of flow rate is needed thru the filter.

    I suspect that most automotive oil filter will have plenty of capacity, but would like to know for sure. Don't want to restrict the flow to the point that it starves the trans for lubrication and lowers the pressures needed for clamping the clutch plates.

    Derale makes this remote filter mount with -10 AN connection for the lines.

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-35729
    https://derale.com/products/filtrat...opper-aluminum-transmission-cooler-6an-detail

    DeraleRemoteFilterMount_35729.jpg
     
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer. Staff Member

    OK FIRST LOOK UP THE TRANSMISSIONS FLUID CAPACITY
    HERES A LINK


    http://fluidcapacity.com/

    http://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/autotransfluid

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sion-and-oil-cooler-increases-durability.176/

    http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-cooler-info-and-derale-trans-cool-pans.662/

    http://www.1st-synthetics.com/lit/B_pdf/WIX_racing_filters.pdf

    one of the most common mistakes less than experienced performance enthusiasts, face and very commonly over-look, is the fact that the internal cross sectional area on many hydraulic and fuel line fittings are considerably more restrictive to flow that the fuel limes or hydraulic lines inside diameter they were designed to be used with, and it varies a great deal between different manufacturers, now ideally the fittings internal passage cross sectional area is both consistent and the same or greater that the tube or hydraulic line size, it listed to match, , so a 1/2" inside diameter fuel line, or hydraulic lines?hoses, for example should have components for the connections and fittings that have significantly smaller internal cross sectional areas, it does you very little good to use lets say, AN#8 or half inch fuel lines if the internal cross sectional area of the connections and fitting used with those lines is only 3/8" or smaller in cross sectional area,this is an area where dealing with a local hydraulic supply shop that has the correct tools and fittings to custom fabricate your fuel lines, coolant or lubrication lines is a very good idea!
    talk to a local professional at your local hydraulic supply, measure accurately, take the time to explain what your trying to accomplish and take several pictures to show them what your doing, and get them too fabricate any high pressure fuel or coolant lines and related fittings



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    *
    Up to 45 GPH= 3/4 GPM = 5/16" or -04 AN
    *
    Up to 90 GPH = 1.5 GPM= 3/8" or -06 AN
    *
    Up to 250 GPH =4.2 GPM= 1/2" or -08 AN
    nearly ideal for transmission and oil coolers :D
    *
    Up to 450 GPH =7.5 GPM= 5/8" or -10 AN
    *
    Up to 900 GPH = 15GPM 3/4"or -12 AN

    [​IMG]

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    keep in mind most performance cars with an auto transmission and a higher rpm stall converter,
    will need an auxiliary trans fluid cooler,
    Id strongly suggest you find one with an electric fan and
    1/2" or AN#8 line size as you'll want to allow a minimum of 2 gallons a minute trans fluid flow rate,
    remember viscosity changes with temperature,
    a dual transmission fluid filter doubles the filter surface area,
    reducing the potential flow restriction,
    and having long dual filters helps transfer heat,
    from the fluid to outside air flow

    [​IMG]

    its CRITICAL to keep the trans fluid clean and ideally changed about every 70K miles and use of a auxiliary cooler that keeps the fluid temp under about 170F is going to extend service life a good deal longer

    Ive helped do at least 7 of these big block c4 corvette, engine swaps now for other people and obviously results vary with the components being used but most of the swaps required a trans cooler and Ive installed 2 now in the rear tire carrier area, 200f -230f temps on trans fluid are very common on stock transmissions, with stock original engines, if and when your beating the hell out of the trans racing, but 180f-210f on the street while cruising is more common using the stock radiator trans cooler in the lower radiator trans fluid cooler.
    (still too hot for long term durability)
    I had a larger than original capacity aluminum aftermarket radiator most of the time , in my corvette even with the current 383 sbc, and if I ran a 180f T-stat both the coolant and trans fluid tended to run about 190f UNTIL I swapped to a 3200 stall converter , where the temps jumped noticeably by about 20f higher, if I pushed the car ,but those temps dropped rapidly if I was just cruising in O.D. but I felt I needed a better system, to cool the trans fluid, adding the additional rear mount aux cooler drops temps to 150f-160f with the fan on and about 170f=180f with it off even if Im pushing the car so I wired a switch to the fan, and a sensor that turns the fan on at 175F

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16759

    http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... -16759.pdf
    [​IMG]
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    internal cross sectional area of the fluid transfer lines matters, anything less than 1/2" or AN#8 can be restrictive to flow
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
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    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  3. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    .
    If I only need somewhere around 2 GPM, then most any oil filter will suffice. Wix filter 51794 flows
    9-11 GPM with a 21 micron rating and the Wix 51794R flow 28 GPM with a 61 micron rating. For
    some reason Wix doesn't show the micron rating for the 51794R, but if you look at the last screen
    shot, the 51061R shows a 61 micron rating, the only difference is the size.

    I could run the 21 micron filter initially for a 100 miles and then change to the 61 micron filter. Wix
    didn't show any micron rating for their transmission filters that I can find, but I suspect that even
    61 microns is better.

    upload_2018-6-27_11-24-42.png

    upload_2018-6-27_11-27-36.png

    upload_2018-6-27_11-28-20.png
     
  4. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    I'm following this.
    To my 2003 Toyota Camry 3.0L v6 auto, I added a remote transmission filter mount in the fender
    behind the front driver's headlight with a full-size (1 qt truck PF35) filter. I used the correct trans cooler
    hose and fuel injection type hose clamps. The brass hose fittings were installed with red Loctite in
    the aluminum adapter itself.
    I keep finding the area covered with transmission fluid. Not enough to drip on the ground but certainly
    enough to make a mess inside that fender. I triple checked all the connections and tightened them further,
    but I cannot find a leak. The last time I did an oil change, again I could not find anything, so the only reasonable
    explanation left had to be the filter itself. So I replaced it with a different brand, and still the area is covered.
    I guess now I will have to wipe the area clean and cover the filter and mount with an oil absorbing pad, and wait
    and look for the wet spot. Any other ideas guys?
     
  5. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Yes Mike.
    Engine oil Filters were not designed for Transmission oil filtering purposes.
    The problem lies in the fact auto transmissions have 110 psi to 450 psi line pressure present in Forward and Reverse.
    Your Blowing the rubber gasket away and seeping out Auto Transmission fluid.

    Only 1 filter possible up to task.
    What is used on 10,000 Hp Top Fuel engines.
    They Run 200 psi oil pressure.
    Inlet size is 1 inch ID.
     
  6. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    TOP FUEL ENGINE OIL FILTERS ARE HUGE.
    LIKE WHAT IS USED ON 11 LITER SEMI TRUCK ENGINES.
     
  7. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    THE VERY BEST COOLING CAPACITY TRANS COOLER IS WHAT I HAVE.
    Its not on Grumpys charts.
    No one has ever used on Street till I did this year.
    Made for Drag Racing.
    For Race Cars with Powerglides and Turbo 400s WITH TRANSBRAKES.
    Transmission filter is built intetnal.
    Take apart to service.
    It unbolts apart.
    The MOROSO HEAT SINK TRANSMISSION COOLER.

    You can Google all you want.
    Find Notta but my Results posted here on Grumps.
    Keeps the Turbo 400 in my 1963 Pontiac Gp Cool at 110-115 F all the Time.
    Even at 120-130 mph driving speeds.
    I have the Dual Fin Twin Tube Moroso Trans cooler.
    Its $450 investment to buy and plumb all in.
    #6AN Teflon lined stainless braided hoses.
    Steel JIC Fittings.
    Steel fittings have to be used.
    Aluminum is not strong enough for pressures present.
     
    william ritchie likes this.
  8. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Spin On oil filters conventional for auto trans is asking for problems I think.
    Too much pressure is present.
    Disaster lurks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  9. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Auto Transmission fluid leaks spraying onto exhaust is a Fire Hazzard.
    Car will burn down to the ground.
     
  10. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    I did the exact same thing on my 84 Trans Am with the same PF35L filter and there were never any leaks. 700R4 transmission.
    I am going to wipe the area clean and fasten an oil absorbent mat around the filter to identify where the seepage is coming from.
    You could be right about blowing the rubber gasket away and seeping out ATF.
    The K&N HP racing oil filters are built for higher pressures. I wonder if one of those would do the trick?
    But first I have to actually verify the source of the leak.
     
  11. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    A 700R4 Corvette 1987 model year Forward Boost valve gives about 210 psi line pressure.
    Reverse Boost valve gives 260 psi line pressure.

    Just too high of pressure Mike.
     
  12. Indycars

    Indycars Administrator Staff Member

    Only the Wix 517794 (above) shows a rating of 270 psi burst pressure , but I suspect they all
    would be rated the same. Now does that mean the gasket seal will withstand the same 270 psi,
    I don't know.
     
  13. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    There is working nominal pressure ratings and at a given temperature or nominal temp.
     
  14. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    Good question Rick.
    The K&N HP3001 Performance Gold Oil Filter is rated for 550 psi max burst pressure.
    https://www.jegs.com/i/K-N/599/HP-3001/10002/-1

    I have some investigating to do.
    This is the filter mount I bought. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Derale-257...321755&hash=item545952bcca:g:5KgAAOSw-WFasuoa
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  15. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Its been a long time but with Hydraulics Piscals formula comes into play.
    How much Force in pounds or static weight pressure is working against that double threaded steel tube the oil filter screws onto ?
    Will it hold up or not Mike ?

    Lots of reports by Pontiac guys of engine oil filters blowing off of cars at speed and down the racetrack with 60-80 psi oil pumps.
    They all blocked off the factory bypass valve in the oil filter adapter housing.
    I have done it too.
    Always used K&N HP2003 Pontiac -Olds -AMC V8 Filter.
    Never blew off.
    Cold startup pressure was 150 psi.
    80-100 psi hot 10w30 oil.

    Looking to double the PSI working pressure with 200R4 , 700R4, 4L60E.
    Done with high line pressure so clutches do not slip.
    They are Dinky layouts.

    Hate to say but TH400& 4L80e Trans clutches double in size.
    1/2 line pressures used.

    Is it worth the risk for extra filtration in a trans ?
     
  16. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

  17. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

  18. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    Need an oil filter that bolts together.
    Like the Vintage Oberg did.
    Flat pancake screen style.
    2 AN line connections IN & OUT.
     
  19. Maniacmechanic1

    Maniacmechanic1 solid fixture here in the forum

    SYSTEM 1 Sells Inline oil filters too.
    Screw together.
    Clean out the filter screen.
    Recall discussing with Grumpy in the past.
    He does not like so much.
    Made for dry sump racing engines.
    AN Fittings IN & OUT.
     
  20. Loves302Chevy

    Loves302Chevy "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

    Most likely the ATF is blowing past the gasket seal, like you said.
     

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