trouble shooting brakes (2)

[grumpyvette]

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ceramic-brake-pads.1361/

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_wa ... disk.shtml

http://www.classicperform.com/TechBook/ ... eshoot.htm

http://autorepair.about.com/od/troubles ... brakes.htm

http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/shoot.shtml

http://home.att.net/~m.prendergast-alli ... AKCHRT.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-07.htm

There are a few different systems for bleeding the brake system (2-person, 1-person vacuum, pressure, etc.). Which one of them would you consider the best and why? Do you have a preference?[/QUOTE]

http://www.aaawholesalecompany.com/bem-484410-pk.html
NOTICE THEY COME singly for about $8-$9 each or 12 to a carton and cost about $60 a dozen so get two to 6 buddies to split the cost
medical supplys can be useful bleeding brakes

read this
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automot ... 13448.html



"Ive only found one semi-fool proof way, and thats with two guys, doing the old...
check the fluid level, pump the brake pedal,several times,....., hold it,firmly to the pressure point f,...release the bleeder valve, on the wheel, let the pedal hit the floor,...close the bleeder valve, only then, let the pedal up, repeat, about 4 times than refill the master cylinder,repeat untill you get clear new fluid and no air in the clear tubing, routine, on each wheel with a 1/4 dia section of 3 ft long clear plastic tube routeing the old brake fluid into a large plastic container, all the time getting feed back on feel from the guy pumping the brakes whos also and making sure the brake fluid resavoir never gets low

So Grumpy, are you of the opinion that a single person bleeder is NOT the way to go? I like to work on my ride at 0-dark thirty in the middle of the night and my buddies hate it when I call and try to drag them out of bed at that hour.
(although I could probably call you... you don't seem like you would mind at all )

no, I probably would not mind at all, (I enjoy working on cars) but the wife might!
yes the brake bleed , suction tools can be used succesfully, but its still not as good as having someone help and give constant verbal feed back as to pedal feel and master cylinder fluid levels in my opinion.

http://djvmerchandise.com/pro1124764.html

http://djvmerchandise.com/pro1133025.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=92474


INDYCARS posted this info

 

[Grumpy]

I spent the morning doing a brake replacement and bleeding the brakes wheel cylinders on a 2012 camaro a friend owns,
generally its a strait forward job with few unexpected issues but keep in mind I purchased both the pads and rotors for all 4 wheels.
we had inspected the cars brakes about 10 days prior and found 3 of the four rotors lightly damaged,
simply because the cars owner had not decided he might need brake maintenance,
until the brakes started squealing noticeably,
so we made the decision to replace all four.
If you wait until the brakes are making an obvious noise your dealing with a metal pad base,
on a completely worn out pad, being pressed into, and damaging, the rotor,
as the pads being compressed against a cast iron or steel rotor ,
and thats obviously going to get expensive,
you'll be far better off, pulling the wheels off the calipers and rotors and visually inspecting your brake pads about every 4-6 months,
or 8k miles, and buying and installing new pads once the existing pads reach the 1/2 too 3/5th worn point
5/8 in. x 4-3/4 in. Clevis Pin available at home depot for $4 each

I've painted every third jack stands tooth yellow and the second tooth , the one below that red and the first tooth below that blue,
this makes matching the height on all 4 stand far faster too adjust , the third notch for the pawl,
is the preferred creeper height, under my corvettes,
for clutch and brake jobs
and where the pin slides through and locks,
with the pawl and pin engaged the stand height will not change accidentally

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/under-car-safety.26/
you might want to try premium ceramic brace pads , they have in my experience lasted a bit longer and done less wear to the rotors than the metallic pads, and they don,t puke as much debris
https://www.corvettemods.com/C4-Corvette-1984-1996-Hyper-Ceramic-Brake-Pads-_p_14378.html

https://www.vbandp.com/c4-corvettes...-96-hawk-ceramic-front-brake-pads-detail.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...en-do-you-inspect-the-brakes-condition.15187/

https://thmotorsports.com/i-1823350...MIhPSQ96PE2AIVBB1pCh0FKwkKEAYYAyABEgJGfPD_BwE
keep in mind you may need two front and two rear rotors ,
and youll almost certainly need
and front and rear
disc brake caliper pads
a 10mm box end wrench to bleed the brake calipers and about two quarts of brake fluid

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvoline-DOT-3-and-4-Brake-Fluid-32-fl-oz/19897941

and yes a lift or a floor jack and 4 decent quality jack stands will be required

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...,3.6l+v6,3015193,brake+&+wheel+hub,rotor,1896

ACDELCO 1771090 {#13501320} GM Original Equipment Info
Front

$50.79

ACDELCO 1771087 {#13501315, 23132528} GM Original Equipment Info
Rear

BENDIX CFC1404 Premium Copper Free Ceramic BPR Info
Front; OE Pad Material Is Ceramic

$28.79

BENDIX CFC1337 Premium Copper Free Ceramic BPR Info
Rear; OE Pad Material Is Ceramic

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30614/know-brake-fluids

https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/414/~/what-is-the-difference-between-brake-fluids?

DOT 3 vs. DOT 4 vs. DOT 5 vs. DOT 5.1
Obviously, the braking system on any vehicle is a critical safety system. It becomes even more critical in race and performance applications. Bringing your car to a stop generates a lot of heat. The heavier the vehicle and the faster it is going, the more heat is created. Brake fluid must be able to stand up to all this heat and still do its job: transfer force from the brake pedal to the caliper or wheel cylinder.

To ensure everyone's safety, brake fluid must meet certain standards. The standards are set by organizations like the SAE and the Department of Transportation (DOT). The standards are what designates the fluid as DOT 3, DOT 4, DOT 5, and DOT 5.1.

The important factors involved when comparing brake fluids are:

• Boiling Point
• Viscosity
• Corrosion Prevention
• Compressibility

What is it made from?
Before we get into the specific standards, it is important to know what the different fluids are made from. DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 are all glycol-ether based. DOT 5 brake fluid is silicone based.

Glycol based fluids are hygroscopic, meaning they gradually absorb moisture from the atmosphere and disperse it throughout the system. As the water content of the fluid increases, its boiling point decreases. The additional moisture in the fluid will also start to corrode the metal components of the system.

The silicone based fluid is hydrophobic, meaning it will not absorb moisture. If any moisture is introduced into the system, it can collect in pockets that can either freeze or boil off. This can lead to damage to the brake system and/or brake failure. Silicone is also more compressible than glycol, which can lead to a "spongy" feeling brake pedal.

Because of the way they deal with water, glycol and silicone based fluids are NOT compatible with each other. Never mix the 2 types of fluid. Only add DOT 5 silicone brake fluid to a completely dry system or a vehicle that already has DOT 5 in it. Do not add anything other than DOT 5 to a system that calls for DOT 5 brake fluid.

Boiling Point
When it comes to performance applications, boiling point is probably the most critical. Brake fluid must withstand very high temperatures without vaporizing in the lines. Vapor is highly compressible, compared to fluid. So, if the fluid is vaporized, it fails to transfer the force from the pedal to the caliper or wheel cylinder and the car will not stop.

Don't forget to consider the water content of the fluid. Remember that the glycol based fluids will absorb moisture over time. Brake fluid must meet standards for both a wet and dry boiling point. The wet boiling point is defined as 3.7% water by volume.



Dry Boiling Point

Wet Boiling Point

DOT 3

401° F

284° F

DOT 4

446° F

311° F

DOT 5

500° F

356° F

DOT 5.1

500° F

356° F

**Some manufacturers sell brake fluid with much higher boiling points. These fluids are intended for use in race vehicles only and should not be used in daily drivers or street vehicles.**

Viscosity
Viscosity is basically the thickness of the fluid. For example, oil has a higher viscosity than water. Brake fluid must maintain its viscosity through both extreme heat and cold to provide reliable, safe braking. DOT 3 has the highest viscosity. As the DOT number increases, the viscosity goes down.

Corrosion Prevention
In addition to withstanding heat, brake fluid must also not corrode the metal brake system components. Additives are added to the fluid to accomplish this. The added chemicals protect the metal parts from corrosion, but they will damage painted surfaces.

The glycol based fluids are very harmful to paint. If the fluid is spilled, or leaks onto a painted surface of your vehicle, the paint will be damaged. DOT 5 silicone based fluid is much less harmful to paint.

Compressibility
Brake fluid is intended to transfer force. If the fluid compresses, even a little bit, the force is reduced. Brake fluid must maintain a low level of compressibility to maintain the feel of the brake pedal and provide consistent performance.


http://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-va ... 39522.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=ble....16602j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=1

https://m.wikihow.com/Bleed-a-Slave-Cylinder

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/hydraulic-throw-out-bearings.1122/#post-2236

Part 2 Bleeding Your Clutch

1. Check the fluid level in the master cylinder. ...
2. Locate the bleed screw on the slave cylinder. ...
3. Attach the hose to the bleed screw. ...
4. Open the bleed screw on the slave cylinder. ...
5. Have a friend press the clutch pedal in and hold it. ...
6. Close the bleed screw. ...
7. Have your friend release the clutch pedal.

this is for brakes but the basic concept is similar for a clutch slave cylinder

http://www.aaawholesalecompany.com/bem-484410-pk.html
NOTICE THEY COME singly for about $8-$9 each or 12 to a carton and cost about $60 a dozen so get two to 6 buddies to split the cost
medical supplys can be useful bleeding brakes

"Ive only found one semi-fool proof way, and that's with two guys, doing the old...
check the fluid level, pump the brake pedal,several times,....., hold it,firmly to the pressure point f,...release the bleeder valve, on the wheel, let the pedal hit the floor,...close the bleeder valve, only then, let the pedal up, repeat, about 4 times than refill the master cylinder,repeat until you get clear new fluid and no air in the clear tubing, routine, on each wheel with a 1/4 diam section of 3 ft long clear plastic tube routing the old brake fluid into a large plastic container, all the time getting feed back on feel from the guy pumping the brakes who's also and making sure the brake fluid reservoir never gets low

http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_hvpo.asp#

http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_hvp.asp

http://www.aaawholesalecompany.com/bem-484410-pk.html
NOTICE THEY COME singly for about $8-$9 each or 12 to a carton and cost about $60 a dozen so get two to 6 buddies to split the cost
medical supplys can be useful bleeding brakes

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=93547

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=92474

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Powerbuilt-Vacuum-Pump-Kit-648744/203120693

with a few cheap components you can manually bleed the brake fluid