trouble shooting & rebuilding HEI ignitions

[grumpyvette]

if your ignition is working correctly your getting a hot blue spark, thats got a noticeable audible snap to it if you test an ignition wire by removing it from a plug temporarily and holding it about a 1/3" from a ground like the block,a quick check of your shop manual for the correct advance and procedures for setting the timing and your timing light will be very useful in setting the ignition timing.
if you don,t have that snappy blue spark,, but only a dull yellow or red spark, chances are decent that the coil or the battery voltage or possibly a ground strap are defective, so check those possibilities , and don,t forget youll need both a timing light and a v.o.m. meter to check out your ignition.

WATCH THE VIDEO


If your chasing an intermittent, engine miss or stumble, youll need to logically isolate and test each potential source, and while it might be related to fuel pressure, carburetor float levels or crud in the carburetor fuel bowls, or a vacuum leak, on a hose or the brake booster, or fuel pressure or volume of fuel delivery or the carb fuel level, you might also be dealing with a loose electrical connection , on the battery , other wiring or system ground in the cars ignition system or sensors, or something simple like water in the fuel, or a clogged fuel filter, the point here is LOGICALLY ISOLATE AND TEST THE POTENTIAL OPTIONS, AND IT HELPS TO HAVE A FACTORY SHOP MANUAL< A MULTI METER A VACUUM GAUGE AND TAKING NOTES WON,T HURT EITHER

DON,T SKIP READING THE LINKS AND SUB LINKED INFO
AND IF AQ LINKS STATES...CLICK TO EXPAND...CLICK THE LINK AND READ IT!

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ei-distributors-ignition-advance-curve.16425/

Relay/s, Voltage Drop/s, Current Flow, Grounds and ... more

A relay is nothing more than a device that uses a low-current signal to operate a high-current circuit, he solenoid on your starter is a type of relay that uses the low-current signal from your starter switch to operate the high-current circuit between the battery and the starter motor...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

http://www.4secondsflat.com/HEI_Distributors.html

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10946&start=16

https://www.customwiresets.com/product.php?productid=16162&cat=0&page=1&featured

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm/4.3L-5.0L-5.7L/distributor-mounted-icm-tests-1

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-auto-elecrtrical-connectors.3105/#post-68805


https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Motors-Pontiac-V8-Pro-Series-Distributor,443619.html

Testing the GM HEI Distributor

A no-spark condition is checked by checking the distributor for power at the connector on the side of the cap. If there is power, disconnect the electrical connector and remove the cap. Check the rotor and the cap for excessive wear. Check the coil tower for excessive wear. Remove the top plastic cap on the distributor cap. Use an ohmmeter and check the coil positive terminal to the metal case of the coil. The reading should be infinity. Check the coil tower and the negative terminal. The reading should be 900 ohms. Check the positive terminal to the negative terminal. The reading should be around 700 ohms. If any of these tests show drastically different readings, the coil is bad. If the coil is good, the cap and rotor are not cracked or worn significantly and there is no spark at any wire, replace the ignition module.
keep in mind this whole web site is designed to help you learn and solve problem, and ideally add to the web sites, knowledge base ,
so others can learn from your successfully solving issues and posting your experiences

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...cting-a-distributor-for-your-application.855/

https://www.chevelles.com/threads/ignition-101.189195/

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm/4.3L-5.0L-5.7L/distributor-mounted-icm-tests-1

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-hazy-light-under-the-hood.12017/#post-57463

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_icm_d ... dule_1.php
Instructions

1

Verify voltage at the distributor. On the side of the distributor is a plug-in receptacle that will have a heavy-gauge, red wire attached to it. The large gauge is necessary to produce the high voltage demands of the spark plugs. Probe this wire with a properly grounded test light while the ignition key is turned on. The light should brightly glow. If there is no voltage, the ignition switch or related wiring is defective.
2

Detach a spark plug wire from a spark plug and replace the plug with a spark plug tester. The spark plug tester (available at most auto parts stores) will have an alligator clip attachment. Clip this to engine metal--not plastic--and have an assistant crank the engine. Carefully observe the tester and see if there is a spark that flashes in cycle with the engine as it cranks over. If there is no spark and there is 12 volts going to the distributor, test for engine or distributor failure.
3

Remove the distributor cap and inspect the rotor assembly while an assistant cranks the engine. If the rotor does not move, there is internal mechanical failure of the engine or distributor. If the rotor moves, there is electronic circuit failure in the distributor that will need to be repaired.

Easy tests for HEI system:

1. Test for power at the pink BAT terminal. You should have battery voltage w/ the key in the start and RUN positions.

2. Connect the ground side of your test lamp to the battery POSITIVE cable. Probe the TACH terminal on the dist. cap while a helper attempts to start the engine. The test lamp should blink repeatedly as the engine cranks. No blink= bad module or pickup coil. Further testing is required to pinpoint the problem. Blink but no spark = bad ignition coil.

3. Remove the cap & rotor. Remove the green & white leads from the module. Connect your ohmmeter to the green & white leads. You should have approx. 800-1500 ohms depending on the ambient temperature. Open circuit (infinite ohms) = bad pickup coil.

Wiggle the green & white leads as you test. Ohm reading should remain constant if the leads are good. If the reading varies as the leads are wiggled, the pickup coil is bad. You'll often find broken pickup coil leads this way.

4. DVOM (meter) still connected to green & white leads. Set your DVOM to AC VOLTS. Have a helper crank the engine as you watch the AC VOLTS reading. A good pickup coil will produce about 3V AC when cranking. Less than approx. 2V AC indicates a bad pickup coil.

let me take you a little farther...

when you turn the key on.. positive power is sent through the red wire plugged into the BAT side of the HEI cap.. inside the cap you will notice the coil wires have a T shaped terminal.... the red wire goes into the coil.. but it also connects to the right side of the 3 wire harness from the cap to the housing from there to the B+ terminal on the module...


the TACH terminal in the cap.. also has a T terminal.. it also connects to the LEFT side of the 3 wire harness down to the housing and connects to the C connector on the module...

wait.. there is a third wire in the three wire harness... this is where a LOT of problems crop up...
this is the ground strap... it goes into the cap before the coil does.. fits into the middle connection of the 3 wire harness..

the screw that goes through the coil laminations directly over the hooked end needs to have the black wire from the coil..

why.... this is the ground for the coil... without it .. the voltage can build up in the frame of the coil till it flashes over like a lightening bolt.. and can be as loud as a shot gun blast going off under your hood..

the center wire goes down and is connected to the condenser hold down strap and the strain relief hold down..

this is really important.. the spark has to make it back up this wire and to the coil after it passes through the spark plugs..



back to the description...

there are 2 screw that hold this coil cover down.. you will notice the TACH and the BAT markings on it..

test with your test light clip hooked to ground to the BAT side.(red coil wire)... you should get voltage...

test with your test light clip hooked to POSITIVE.. the TACH side.(white or yellow coil wire) .. while somebody cranks the engine...

the test light should flash.. this is because the module is making and breaking ground to the C connection inside the distributer. ....... this should make your test light flash..



i normally just remove the module and take it to the parts store as some of them have module testers... where they plug them in and an automated test is run...


i should probably continue on my HEI description...



the 4 pin GM HEI module..

you can see the pins on the right side of this module..

B is the switched ignition power..

c goes up to the Tach and to the yellow or white wire on the coil.

wait.. where is the ground connection.. see the 2 hold down screws... the rivets going through the plastic when the screws go through them ground the module...

why is the ground important.. .. the module connects the C terminal to ground and then breaks that connection to discharge the ignition coil...


on the left end of this 4 pin module are the terminals that go to the pick up coil...

the pick up coil creates a small AC voltage.. usually just about 1 volt AC.. when the AC voltage comes to 0.3 volts positive. the power transistor in the module turns on and grounds the coil.. allowing the electrons to flow into the coil primary creating a magnetic field..

this AC voltage is created by the reluctor spinning above the pick up coil...

this is the second time i have typed this out tonight.. hmm...

when the tips of the reluctor line up with the pick up coil tips.. the voltage will drop back to zero. at this point the power transistor opens .. breaking the connection to ground.. this causes the magnetic field in the coil primary to collapse through the secondary windings and create a high voltage spark....

as the reluctor tips move away from the pick up coil tips.. the voltage continues its negative swing. then it starts rising again as it approaches the tips again..


one of the most important things you can remember.. there has to be dielectric tune up grease is not as good as thermal grease
under the module or it will die... if it starts again once it cools off does not matter .. once thermally damaged.. its toast.. it will fail eventually.. leaving you stranded... usually at the worst point..

use one of the thermal grease under the ignition module,

very good
https://www.google.com/search?q=art...me..69i57.240303j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

good
Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound AS5-12G - OEM

good
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019BZENY...tWxSNqn1YeeooBP4D.BQ&slotNum=18&tag=wepcus-20

Ive found its a whole lot faster to use a quality IR temp gun, to locate a individual cylinder that's mis-firing as it tends to run significantly cooler than adjacent cylinders, or hotter if its a vacuum leak at times, as lean F/A mixes tend to run hotter
(Ive used this one for years)

http://www.professionalequipment.com/ex ... ermometer/
Wide temperature range from -58 to 1832°F (-50 to 1000°C)

many temp guns don,t read high enough or accurately enough
http://www.professionalequipment.com/ex ... ermometer/
that you can use on the engine to check ALL 8 exhaust temps, individually, this quickly locates plugged injectors or vacuum leaks ETC
Wide temperature range from -58 to 1832°F

when selecting an IR gun for automotive use, you really want to be able to read from 0 F deg-about 1400F deg. to cover most conditions you'll test for

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm/4.3L- ... cm-tests-3

below youll find some helpful links

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/GM_7pinHEI.htm

http://rmcavoy.freeshell.org/HEI.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ation-and-bits-of-distributor-i-d-info.14880/

http://www.performancedistributors.com/faqs.htm

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref5.html

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3110&p=8302#p8302

summit racing and a few other places sell clear distributor caps which can be useful
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g5236

http://documents.msdperformance.com/5520.pdf

The ignition control module in the distributor is another item that normally fails when hot, that needs to be replaced is you suspect its defective

https://www.competitionproducts.com...ail&utm_term=0_dccdcdc641-e5856f3f6b-34475433
I have yet too try it personally yet, but this modual above SHOULD BE a noticeable improvement

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki ... istributor

http://static.summitracing.com/global/i ... m30247.pdf

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8 ... structions

http://prestoliteweb.com/Portals/0/down ... e_0006.pdf

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref5.html

http://www.kendrick-auto.com/ignition.htm

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com ... curve.html

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/hei.htm

http://rmcavoy.freeshell.org/HEI.html

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2009/07/properly-matching-your-camshaft-and-distributor-gear/

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com ... curve.html

http://www.corvette-restoration.com/res ... v_Spec.pdf

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref5.html

http://www.circletrack.com/howto/1842_i ... index.html

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref5.html

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/97438/ ... m#cxrecs_s

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/sett ... index.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/howto ... index.html

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=251&p=6437&hilit=+shiming#p6437

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4809570_tr ... butor.html

be sure you inspect the distributor gear for excessive wear
especially if you changed from a flat tappet to a roller cam.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-12200/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-12140/

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=251

videos
http://streetmuscleaction.com/engines/hei/

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/hei.htm

http://www.enginefactory.com/high_perfo ... ibutor.htm

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-6011/?rtype=10

http://cranecams.com/pdf/90001700c.pdf

http://www.customclassictrucks.com/howt ... index.html

http://corp.advanceautoparts.com/englis ... 1001he.asp

http://reviews.ebay.com/HEI-Ignitions-A ... 0002053885

http://www.ehow.com/how_5453767_rebuild ... butor.html

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html

http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/



http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/joevet ... urve.shtml

http://arrc.epnet.com/autoapp/9110/9110 ... System.htm

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/tec ... index.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/sett ... index.html

testing an ignition coil

"A SIMPLE QUICK CHECK FOR YOUR COIL IS :CHECK YOUVE GOT 12 VOLTS, AT THE COIL, PUT A TEST LIGHT TO GROUND AND THE NEG SIDE OF COIL AND CRANK ENGINE THE TEST LIGHT SHOULD FLASH OR FLICKER.(ANALOG METERS WITH A SWINGING NEEDLE,SWEEP ARE BETTER THAN DIGITAL) THIS WILL TELL IF YOUR TRIGGER IS...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1169&hilit=+alternator

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=840&p=1696&hilit=taylor#p1696

 

[grumpyvette]

AS a general starting point for tuning your SBC or BBC engine your HEI MSD,or similar distributor timing should be at about 8-12 btdc at idle, and all in by about 3100rpm at about 36 degrees total advance, naturally youll want to make some adjustments in the timing or fuel/air ratio as needed, and reading plugs and verifying your TDC, and timing tab and use of timing tape on the damper , use of a vacuum gauge and timing light are a good place to start.
you can normally change the total advance and rate of advance by changes in the distributors weights, springs, etc.

IF your tach is not reading correctly on a 1984-90 corvette check the electrical connections and replace the tach filter

www.grumpysperformance.com/46137b.jpg

http://www.grumpysperformance.com/addcurves.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/84camar ... tm#hd1-1-4

Distributors:

Depending on the year of your TPI engine will depend on the type of distributor that was used. In 1985-86 "F" body (Camaro-Firebird) and 1985-1991 "Y" Body (Corvette), the distributor was the familiar looking large cap HEI distributor. Upon closer examination of the original distributor you will see it's cap is held down by 4 screws. The more common HEI distributors, if you have another 1974-86 small block Chevy to compare, is held with 4 latches. Another difference is the 4 wire EST connector to the wiring harness. While the common HEI has the prongs with two outer slots facing up, the HEI used on the TPI engines, has one of these slots facing to the outside.

You can use the common HEI on your TPI for the years mentioned above, but you will have to swap the connector at the harness or find the connectors at a salvage yard, which can be found on the 1985-86 3.8L V6 found on the FWD vehicles or on the 4.1L V8 Cadillac motors.

Shown above is the large cap HEI distributor, this one is the common variety which the cap is latched instead of being held by four screws. These can have the est connector modified to work on your TPI engine perfectly.

The next distributor was on the 1987 through 1992 Camaro-Firebird TPI engines. This is what I call the "small cap" HEI, which uses a remote mounted coil, typically is bolted to the intake manifold. You will note this is the time period, Chevrolet switched to the roller cam motor, and this distributor was used on these engines.

Shown above is the "small cap" HEI with coil.

The remote coil has two connectors. The gray connector is the 12V coil power supply, the large pink wire goes to ignition "on" power for the distributor, the white wire can be hooked to a tachometer. The black connector has the smaller pink and white wires which goes to the two wire connector on the ignition module on the distributor.

EST connectors that send the ignition signal back to the ecm, The one of the left is for the "small cap" HEI, the center one is for the "common" large cap HEI, note the two outer prongs with slots facing up. The connector on the right is the "TPI" distributor connector (1985-86 only), used with with screw down caps. Note one prong with slot facing up, the prong on the far left has a slot but is facing towards the left.

Be careful in pulling a small cap HEI to use. The distributor to the left is used on the 1987-1992 Camaro/Firebird. Note the smaller base as compared to the distributor on the right, these larger base distributors were used on some 1991-1993 "B" body TBI equipped engines, such as the Chevy Caprice and Buick Roadmaster. They use the TBI throttle bodies which are held down with two studs for the air cleaner, and the manifolds are machined for the large base distributor they use. They will not interchange.

DISTRIBUTOR GEAR APPLICATIONS

There has been a lot of controversy concerning the interchange of the distributors using a large cap HEI on a 1987 and later block and using a small cap distributor on earlier blocks. It used to be on the safe side, use the large coil in cap HEI on the pre-87 blocks and the smaller remote coil HEI on the 1987 and later engines. Now with the aftermarket coming to the rescue for those who want to use the different distributors due to firewall clearance issues, availability, etc. it is possible to use the distributor of your choice, but you must use the proper distributor gear based on the material the cam distributor gear is made of.

Crane cams makes the proper distributor gears for the roller and non-roller blocks.

General rule is to use a bronze alloy gear for a steel distributor gear on the camshaft (most factory roller cams follow this route). For an cast iron cam use a irondistributor gear (all non roller cams and some later aftermarket roller cams use an iron distributor gear on camshaft.

Crane cams does make a coated steel distributor they say is superior to the bronze alloy gear with a OEM life span. It can be found at this URL through Jeg's performance parts: http://www.jegs.com

Part # 270-11951-1

Coated Steel Distributor Gear
Chevrolet
90° V-6 1978-86, 200 thru 262
V-8 1955-87, 262-thru 400 .491'' Dia. shaft
V-8 1965-90, 396 thru 502

• .491'' Dia.

Crane also makes a iron gear that fits the small HEI distributor for use in an earlier non-roller cam application.

Part# 270-11970-1

Iron Distributor Gear
Chevrolet
90° V-6 1985-91, 262 For GM HEI
V-8 1985-99, 305-350 For GM HEI .427'' Dia. shaft
V-8 1991-00, 454-502 For GM HEI
If you want to use the bronze alloy gear it is part # 270-11988-1 for the small HEI (.427" dia. shaft)

For the large HEI it is part # 270-11990-1 (.491" dia. shaft)

Troubleshooting the GM HEI Distributor
By Don Bowman, eHow Contributor

updated April 05, 2011
Troubleshooting the GM HEI Distributor thumbnail The GM HEI distributor affects the power in your vehicle's engine.

GM HEI Distributor Basics

The GM HEI distributor uses a hall effect for the triggering and sensing the No.1 cylinder location and the rpm of the engine. It uses an ignition module within the distributor to regulate the timing curve as well. It will automatically advance the timing on acceleration a specific amount and retard the spark when decelerating and starting.

It uses a standard rotor, under which is located a centrifugal set of weights and springs that act as the final mechanical advance. The GM HEI distributor's springs can be replaced with three different weights of springs that, in effect, allow the advance at lower rpm. The ignition coil is housed in the distributor cap, which makes the GM HEI distributor a very efficient, self-contained unit. It can be used with many ignition-enhancing-after-market capacitor discharge units such as MSD or Jacobs (multiple spark distribution).

This system creates a multitude of sparks rather than one spark, and it lasts over many degrees of stroke. Some of the early units also had a vacuum advance that mechanically retarded the spark for start and deceleration and increased the spark approximately 10 degrees on start-up. The combination of the vacuum and the mechanical weights did all of the controlling of the spark in the early units. The module in these units primarily acted as a switch.
Testing the GM HEI Distributor

A no-spark condition is checked by checking the distributor for power at the connector on the side of the cap. If there is power, disconnect the electrical connector and remove the cap. Check the rotor and the cap for excessive wear. Check the coil tower for excessive wear. Remove the top plastic cap on the distributor cap. Use an ohmmeter and check the coil positive terminal to the metal case of the coil. The reading should be infinity. Check the coil tower and the negative terminal. The reading should be 900 ohms. Check the positive terminal to the negative terminal. The reading should be around 700 ohms. If any of these tests show drastically different readings, the coil is bad. If the coil is good, the cap and rotor are not cracked or worn significantly and there is no spark at any wire, replace the ignition module.
Engine Runs But Has no Power

Hook up an advance timing light by hooking the carbon connection over the No. 1 cylinder wire and hook the positive and negative clips to the battery. If there is a vacuum advance, pull the hose off the vacuum source and plug the leak. Start the engine, pull the trigger and shine the light on the right side of the harmonic balancer. Turn the knob on the timing light until the straight 0-degree line on the harmonic balancer is lined up with the 0-degree mark on the timing chain cover. Read the degrees of advance by the mark on the timing light advance knob. For instance, if it is 8 degrees before top dead center, check the label under the hood for the timing specifications. Adjust the distributor, if necessary, by loosening the hold-down nut on the distributor base and turning the distributor and rechecking until it meets specifications. Turn the distributor counter-clockwise to advance and the clockwise to retard the spark.

Once set, reconnect the vacuum hose and see how much the distributor advances. If the advance rises about 10 degrees, the vacuum advance mechanism is operational; if not, replace it. Raise the rpm to 2,500 and recheck the timing. It should be around 32 degrees plus or minus one degree. If the timing does not rise, the centrifugal advance mechanism isn't working. If it rises but is less than 32 degrees, adjust the distributor to achieve this number.


DOC posted this bit of info
"First be sure the 12 volts doesn't drop out when cranking..If it does you may need a secondary Ignition wire or a better source of power for the HEI.

The Module can be tested for free, at any Auto Zone, store and if it is bad...youll need it replaced, so be sure YOU HAVE the new one checked.before you leave the store because once you leave the store..It's your problem.. DO NOT forget the heat sink grease compound..or you will be replacing the module again real soon!

On the coil, Remove and invert the cap, Measure between the tach and BATT terminals , using a DVOM, Set to OHMS scale, RX1 and calibrated to 000. It should read less than an ohm, but more than 000, If not it's bad.
lightly used distributor cap

floating carbon button that contacts rotor top spring

rotor shows carbon arcing, which can be caused by placing the spring loaded button above the insulated washer rather than under it with only the spring poking thru (see assembly diagram)

IF YOU FIND THE CAP AND ROTOR MELTING DUE TO EXCESSIVE HEAT! DROP THE PLUG GAP FROM THE RATHER STANDARD .045 to, the CLOSER GAP OF .023 THAT REDUCES THE RESISTANCE, AND USE THE LOW RESISTANCE BUTTON. PART #MSD-8412

The carbon rotor button in a stock HEI distributor cap has very high resistance. When the high voltage of an MSD 6, 7, or 8 Series ignition is added, this resistance builds up heat and can actually melt the distributor cap.
To solve this problem,
(1) install one of these MSD low-resistance HEI bushings, which will pass the secondary voltage from the distributor cap to the rotor with out the excessive heat buildup.
(2) verify the grounds on the car and battery to frame show less than 3-t0-4 ohms at the MOST
(3) drop the plug gap to .023-.025 rather than the more common .043-.045
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8412/

while admittedly this picture, below, is an extreme case ,
any corrosion in the frame ground to battery cable connections, causes heat and lower ignition current

I've seen the rubber washer installed incorrectly, too. Put the button in the cap, spring end toward the coil. THEN install the rubber washer, then the coil. Once in awhile, I see that someone has installed the rubber washer, then the button, then the coil.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/67498-hei-coils-modules/

I figured Id point out a few basics
that I find it hard to believe are commonly over-looked
and
that's the fact that you'll want to
check the condition of the batteries and electrical connections in any meter you use.
before you go doing any testing.
I can remember several times that I've found
9 volt and AA batteries inside multi meters that were corroded and leaking acid,
and remember guys telling me injectors were defective, only to find later that the meter they used to test with was defective or the internal fuses or battery was dead, or 90% dead and internal connections in the multi meter were corroded.
and as a result, connections internally were damaged so badly that the connections were turned to white metallic salts.
Ive also watched and seen guys try to check for good grounds , or ohms resistance or voltage and spend a lot of wasted time ,
because the multi-meter had a blown internal fuse , or the connector probes & leads, that did not fit,
and were not designed to be used with that particular multi-meter.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...0,ignition,ignition+control+module+(icm),7172

yes you can use the OEM parts or aftermarket parts (some are upgrades, many are just re-labeled OEM parts
https://www.summitracing.com/search...ar=1&kr=1987 corvette ignition control module

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d2001?rrec=true

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d3001

AC DELCO 19179581

the ICM module MUST be installed with a dab of thermal conductive grease ,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PQTT3WZ?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image
Protronix Series 9 Extreme Performance Thermal Compound Paste Syringe (Pack of 5)
$9 for a 5 pack

or it will eventually over heat and start causing no start, or irregular intermittent no start issues

NOT
Dielectric Silicone Grease

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/67498-hei-coils-modules


youll find you can replace the whole distributor from several sources,
at times , cheaper than you can buy all the component parts
but shop carefully as quality varies



https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...l+350cid+v8,1041220,ignition,distributor,7108

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N038D6DbHQ8


having a wide assortment of different multi meter test leads available is a huge benefit while testing
the clip test leads that test thru a wires insulation without much damage are a big help

most internal fuses will have the voltage/amps stamped on them,
any mechanic should have an assortment in his tool box, as your constantly going to need replacements while testing auto related issues

always make a point of flipping the multi meter too low range OHMS and touching the leads from common (BLACK) to (RED) test lead tips,
to watch the display or needle bounce to verify the multi meters functioning,
then place the black ground or common lead on a cars grounded chassis,
and touch the red probe to a fuse and verify it reads 12-14 volts current


https://media.distributordatasoluti.../4133557fb8456fa5ec26aff60729042350758d52.pdf

Next measure the secondary, set your DVOM scale to RX10k or higher..put the probes between the BATT and the carbon pickup for the COIL..it should read between 6000 and 30,000 OHMS..Outside of that range toss the coil and get a new one.

Check the Carbon pickup and spring follower, it may not be reaching the rotor pickup..or be worn or snapped past runout.

If that won't bring it to life, check the Magnetic pickup, by measuring the resistance across it. (you'll have to lookup the spec's for that year HEI..GM made a year divider on the pickups, and from a certain year Down were one resistance and a different resistance for that year and up..) If it is bad, you'll have to pull the distributor, and disassemble it to replace it."

this APPEARS TO BE A SMALL CAP DIAM HEI replacement

but its simple enough to tell with a caliper or even a ruler

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/burning-out-ignition-modules.16056/

small cap distributors measure approximately 4" in diam.

LARGE cap distributors measure approximately 5.25" in diam.
and theres both male and female ignition wire connection style caps

http://www.ehow.com/how_6153213_install-hei-distributor-cap.html

http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/pdf/hei.pdf

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...cting-a-distributor-for-your-application.855/

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/HEIconversion.html

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/67498-hei-coils-modules/

http://apps.msdignition.com/pdf_catalog/2008_catalog_65-68.pdf

http://www.setyourtiming.com/pdf/8365_frm28975.pdf

http://www.rustynutscarclub.com/HEI.htm

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-1 ... |Year|1985


Both the large & small cap ccc distributors can be swapped, the wiring is the same color. Thay make a conversion harness or you can make one, go to a junkyard & get the est harness from each type, then splice in the middle. but remember the small cap totally dependent on the computer for ignition advance curve in A FEW APPLICATIONS

you can buy harness connectors
http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnect ... eType.aspx

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3439&p=14806#p14806

http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/


btw this is a rather cool custom touch, (VIDEO LINK BELOW ) you can swap to an HEI cap with wire routing that doesn,t look like crap

http://www.accel-ignition.com/Products/ ... edCap.aspx

I have near zero desire to run any hei,ignition.
or similar coil in distributor cap chevy ignition,
but from a reasonable comparison , based on cost vs performance and durability,
well you and I are forced to make choices based on both cost and performance.
Id swap to a vertex magneto in LESS than a 1/2 nano second if I had that option on most BBC and SBC engine builds,
but finding one in pristine condition ,at a decent price is not very likely.
crank trigger, individual, coil per cylinder ignitions and computer controlled ignitions have some advantages over the vertex ignitions
after all that magneto technology is almost 70-100 years old, and the better individual coil per cylinder ignitions that can adjust individual cylinder timing,
with the computer control speed to detect detonation, and in some models, that,
work with injection controls and sensor out-puts ,
too change injector pulse duration, or adjust the advance or retard curve, as required,
thousands of times per second if that were required are far newer than the magneto ignition.


related info

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/vertex-ignitions.1320/#post-64168

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...il-per-cylinder-application.10741/#post-46899

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ouble-shooting-rebuilding-hei-ignitions.2798/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/distributorless-ignition.5916/#post-18181

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...es-and-trouble-shooting-guide.1179/#post-5875

ignition wires & getting the header clearance

Good spark plug wire usually has less than about 400-500ohms ohms resistance per ft. Your correct that less resistance tends to allow more SPARK energy a crossed the plug gap, which in most cases is best set in the .040-.045 range in my experience, for HEI ignitions and .030 plug gap for a...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-a-stand-alone-ignition-coil.275/#post-337

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/shiming-a-distributor.251/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...grated-multi-spark-digital-rev-limiter.13948/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...stributor-for-your-application.855/#post-8931

 

[grumpyvette]

replacing HEI distributor advance weights & springs

https://www.pontiacdiy.com/how-to-improve-pontiac-v-8-engine-performance-ignition-guide/
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com ... curve.html

there are weight and spring kits available from Accel also

the answer to how much coil voltage is required depends on the compression ratio, plug gap, rpm levels fuel/air ratio and the coils design, more volts won,t hurt but they won,t generally improve much either, its maintaining a precise and predictable timing of the ignition arc across the plug gap thats important 40K-45k volts is fine in most application, where most ignitions fail is that as rpms increase the delivered voltage drops but 40K-45k volt capacity in a coil and a plug gap in the .045 thousands range is certainly able to function correctly on most muscle cars with less than 11:1 compression ratio , and typical 12.7-14.7:1 f/a ratios running with out power adders , once you start adding things like nitrous, superchargers and alcohol or nitro it will require more amps and volts,
keep in mind as rpms increase the time required for a coil to recharge to full capacity remains constant but the time between sparks drops rapidly

read these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_ ... e_ignition

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Ignition/Ignition.htm

http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/cannon/sparky.html

heres some info for the MSD advance curve kit

Helpful part numbers for HEI distributors:


GM part numbers

01894379 ZZ4 distributor mainshaft assy.

12167658 Connector used to connect TACH and B+ to distributor .

10456413 Melonized distributor gear (supplied on distributor 93440806)

1950569 Distributor shaft/bushing plastic grease seal

1837617 Distributor shaft washers (pack of five)

Delco D1906 4-pin module



NAPA part numbers

DP109 HEI weight pins for distributors that use plastic bushings on weights

DP112 HEI weight plastic bushings

DP114 HEI weight "stamped 106"

DP115 HEI weight "stamped 139"

DP126 HEI weight "stamped 105"

MP100 (GP Sorensen EL315) HEI yellow color code (Chevy, Caddy except Seville, Olds Toronado) V-8 pickup coil

MP101 (GP Sorensen EL310) HEI Blue (or black) color code (Olds except Toro, Buick, Caddy Seville) V-8 pickup coil

MP102 (GP Sorensen EL359) HEI clear color code (Pontiac) V-8 pickup coil

(My source for the GP Sorensen pickup coils sells them for about $16 instead of NAPA's $40. The GP-S ones I bought are even made in the USA!)

RR230 HEI Capacitor and Harness from module to side of cap 6 ½”

RR231 HEI Capacitor and Harness from module to side of cap 10 ¾

RR233 HEI module to cap Harness 3 ½

RR234 HEI Capacitor and Harness from module to side of cap 8 ¾

TPL45 Heat sink compound for HEI modules—10 small tubes

RR201 Coil frame ground—wire style

RR204 Coil frame ground—Stamped steel strap

RR202 Plug wire retainer ring—8 cyl.
https://www.competitionproducts.com...ail&utm_term=0_dccdcdc641-e5856f3f6b-34475433
I have yet too try it personally yet, but this modual above SHOULD BE a noticeable improvement

GM part numbers
01894379 ZZ4 distributor mainshaft assy.
12167658 Connector used to connect TACH and B+ to distributor .
10456413 Melonized distributor gear (supplied on distributor 93440806)
1950569 Distributor shaft/bushing plastic grease seal
1837617 Distributor shaft washers (pack of five)
Delco D1906 4-pin module


NAPA part numbers
DP109 HEI weight pins for distributors that use plastic bushings on weights
DP112 HEI weight plastic bushings
DP114 HEI weight "stamped 106"
DP115 HEI weight "stamped 139"
DP126 HEI weight "stamped 105"
MP100 (GP Sorensen EL315) HEI yellow color code (Chevy, Caddy except Seville, Olds
Toronado) V-8 pickup coil
MP101 (GP Sorensen EL310) HEI Blue (or black) color code (Olds except Toro, Buick,
Caddy Seville) V-8 pickup coil
MP102 (GP Sorensen EL359) HEI clear color code (Pontiac) V-8 pickup coil
(My source for the GP Sorensen pickup coils sells them for about $16 instead of
NAPA's $40. The GP-S ones I bought are even made in the USA!)


RR230 HEI Capacitor and Harness from module to side of cap 6 ½”
RR231 HEI Capacitor and Harness from module to side of cap 10 ¾
RR233 HEI module to cap Harness 3 ½
RR234 HEI Capacitor and Harness from module to side of cap 8 ¾
TPL45 Heat sink compound for HEI modules—10 small tubes
RR201 Coil frame ground—wire style
RR204 Coil frame ground—Stamped steel strap
RR202 Plug wire retainer ring—8 cyl.

 

[grumpyvette]

http://www.mrgasket.com/Portals/0/downl ... _29050.pdf

 

[grumpyvette]

I am getting ready to install Pertronix's Second Strike CD ignition box. I am guessing that I should reduce the overall spark timing. What do you guys say?

multi spark ignition works in a very similar manor to the standard HEI,its not the multi strike capability but the higher voltage , and better timing control thats usually the bigger benefit
you might want to read these links
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techa ... ns_basics/

http://www.autos.com/aftermarket-parts/ ... ion-systemspark generating capability of a stock HEI site:[URL]http://garage.grumpysperformance.com[/URL]



except the lower rpm range allows time for the coil to build and discharge a second or even three successive ignition sparks per compression stroke to insure the compressed charge of fuel air mix will ignite, this tends to increase low rpm efficiency, as occasionally that 2nd or third ignition electrical arc does help ignite a reluctant to burn cylinder, but in the vast majority of cases the first strike is still the one igniting the cylinder so no change in timing is required

 

[grumpyvette]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3110&p=8302#p8302

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_icm_d ... dule_1.php

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_icm_d ... dule_2.php

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_icm_d ... dule_3.php

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_icm_d ... dule_4.php

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_icm_d ... dule_5.php

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_icm_d ... dule_6.php

 

[Grumpy]

http://chevythunder.com/hei_troubleshooting_page_2_coil_.htm

CHEVYTHUNDER.COM

HEI and ELECTRONIC SPARK CONTROL FUNDAMENTALS AND TROUBLESHOOTING

Troubleshooting the HEI coil in cap ignition

Troubleshooting a faulty or inoperative ignition should always use a logical approach. Overlooking the basics will leave to frustration and unnecessary time and expense. The first thing to remember that the system needs to have power. Make sure the power connection to the distributor cap or the coil is good, no blown fuses, no broken, loose or corroded connections. A good 12V powered test light should always be one of the basic troubleshooting tools you need, along with a reasonable priced digital-volt-ohmmeter.

A 12V test lamp and Digital Volt-Ohmmeter should be your basic troubleshooting tools for HEI-EST systems. Use a DVOM for testing, calibrate meter scale (some do automatically) to read zero when the leads are touching each other. Do this before testing coil to insure greatest accuracy. If meter will not calibrate to read less than 0.2 ohms, check leads or replace battery.

This is the terminal for the coil-in-cap HEI ignition power. With the key turned on (engine off), there should be full battery power here. If not, you will need to check for loose connections by tracing back the wire as far as you can. Also check the fuse that protects the circuit from overload. If the fuse is blown, you will need to do further troubleshooting to find and correct the reason why the fuse blew. Short to ground is the most common cause. The connection (TACH) to the left is the tachometer output.

Connect the one side of your test lamp to the battery POSITIVE cable. Probe the TACH terminal on the dist. cap while an assistance cranks the engine. The test lamp should blink repeatedly as the engine cranks. No blink will mean either a bad module or pickup coil. If the light blinks but there is no spark points to a bad ignition coil. Further testing is required to pinpoint the problem.

As you pull the coil cover off, these are the connections you are looking at and how they are identified. Besides the Tachometer and Power connectors, the next important connector is the three-way that is marked on the coil cover as "C-", "GRD" and "B+".

In the picture on the right, see how this correlates with the ignition module. Study the picture below of the full diagram with the ignition coil.

Now with the diagram broken down to just the ignition coil, we can get an idea of the connections on how to troubleshoot for a faulty coil.

The first thing to remember that there is no physical connection between the coil windings. The "B+" and "C" winding is separate from the ground/sparkplug wire coil. The resulting turning on and off the voltage on the "B+", "C" coil windings, causes a magnetic field to be generated. When the voltage is turned off through the trigger signal, the collapsing magnetic field induces a very large voltage and current into the primary winding which is the feed for the sparkplug. This cycle is repeated as long as there is a functioning ignition module and coil, and a good ground connection, which means it is imperative that the engine grounds are solid and clean.

It must be noted that the secondary (battery/trigger coil) windings will have considerable less turns of wire on the core than the primary (sparkplug) windings. The voltage and current is inversely proportional to the number of windings on the core. So a small voltage/large current on the secondary windings will translate into a large voltage/small current at the sparkplug.

TEST 1:Remove and invert the cap, Measure between the "TACH" and "BAT" terminals , using your DVOM, Set to OHMS scale, RX1 and be sure the scale reads zero ( 0.00) It should read less than an ohm, typically around 0.5 to 0.6 ohms. Anything less or more, replace the coil.

TEST 2: Set your DVOM scale to RX10k or higher. Touch the probes between the "BAT" and the carbon pickup for the coil. This reading should read between 6000 and 30,000 OHMS. Outside of that range the coil is bad, replace.

Also using test 2 as a reference, check for shorted to ground connections, by probing the "BAT" connection and the center terminal with your DVOM leads. There should be infinity resistance or OL on your meter. You can also check the "TACH" connection as well. Either way, if the reading is anything less than OL, replace the coil.

Testing the Pick Up Coil

If the ignition coil checks out good but you were not getting a "blink" with your test light as described at the top of the page, then the pick up coil needs to be checked. This test should be done before moving on to the ignition module.

With your DVOM set on the highest scale, touch one lead of your meter to the distributor body and the other lead to one of the terminals for the pick up coil (either the green or white lead. Your reading should be infinity or OL. Test the other terminal. Any reading less than infinity means the pick up coil is junk.

With your DVOM set on RX10K scale or equivalent, touch each terminal with your leads from your meter. The reading you see here should be around 500 to 1500 ohms and the reading should be steady as the wires are wiggled.

If the coil fails either test, replace the pick up coil.

Testing the Ignition Module

If the pick up coil and the ignition coil checks good, the next thing to move on to is the ignition module. There are two ways to do this. One is with a module tester, such as shown in the picture below. This is also handy to check the pick up coil as well, using the reluctance mode. If you don't have a tester, you can use the method below.

IGNITION MODULE TEST FLOW CHART

The method below will work for both styles of the 7 pin module. Terminal identification is identical.

You may be asking, "if the ignition coil and pick up coil checks okay, why waste time, testing the module?". You're right, but this will get you familiar with the procedures, if this is the only thing you have to work with. It is best not leave anything to chance and work in a logical, methodical approach.

NOTE REGARDING IGNITION MODULES

When re-installing your old one, do not remove the white pasty substance from the bottom of the module or from your distributor. If you are installing a new module, you may clean the old paste from the distributor but, ALWAYS, use the paste when installing the module, and follow the instructions for application.

Failure to use the paste, which is a thermal transfer that allows heat to be conducted away from the module to the larger surface area of the distributor to dissipate heat, will mean almost instant destruction of the ignition module.

Thermal transfer paste must be used.

 

[Grumpy]

http://chevythunder.com/hei_remote_coil_ignition_system.htm

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/67498-hei-coils-modules/

CHEVYTHUNDER.COM

HEI and ELECTRONIC SPARK CONTROL FUNDAMENTALS AND TROUBLESHOOTING

Troubleshooting the HEI remote coil ignition w/o Hall effect



The HEI system, using the remote coil was used starting around 1987 and used up to around the mid 1990's. This system uses the same basic electrical troubleshooting procedures as the coil in cap system, so use that page as a reference and guide for troubleshooting and repair. The difference is that the coil is mounted remotely and there is some slight difference in identifying the connections and terminals.

Troubleshooting Ignition Coil 4 pin 2 connector type

The basic test for the coil is in the illustration below. Use a DVOM for testing, calibrate meter scale (some do automatically) to read zero when the leads are touching each other. Do this before testing coil to insure greatest accuracy. If meter will not calibrate to read less than 0.2 ohms, check leads or replace battery.

Troubleshooting Ignition Coil 3 pin single connector type

Test 1: With ohmmeter set on highest scale, touch one probe to the 12V power pin and the other probe to the coil case. The reading should not be anything less than infinity. Any reading is a cause to reject the coil.

Test 2: With the ohmmeter set on the lowest scale, reading should be around 0.35 to 1.5 ohms. Anything outside this range, replace coil.





Troubleshooting the Hall effect switch

There are two styles of Hall effect switches used, but the procedures are the same for both.

4 cylinder Hall effect switch testing. NOTE: Check polarity connections carefully before making any connections.

1) Connect a 12V power supply as shown, noting proper polarity before connecting. Hook up voltmeter as well.

2) Insert a small metal blade between the notches of the switch (see second picture) and note voltmeter reading. With voltage should be with 0.5V of battery voltage. If the reading is higher, switch is faulty and must be replaced.

3) Remove blade from switch and note reading on meter. It should read less than 0.5V. If it reads a higher reading, switch is faulty and must be replaced.

V6 and V8 Hall effect switch in distributor. NOTE: Check polarity connections carefully before making any connections.





Page 1: HEI-EST basic Fundamentals

 

[Grumpy]

https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Hot_rodding_the_HEI_distributor

http://chevythunder.com/ignition_systems_hei_operation.htm

https://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm/4.3L-5.0L-5.7L/distributor-mounted-icm-tests-2

https://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm/4.3L-5.0L-5.7L/how-to-test-the-icm-1

https://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm/4.3L-5.0L-5.7L/ignition-misfire-diagnostic-tests-1

https://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/hei-distributor-troubleshooting-with-performance-distributors/

 

[T-Test]

I have a 4.3 V6 GM that I converted to Carb instead of TBI and changed the cam. I also took out the duel plug control module and installed a 4 pin module and used an external coil. Never has given a problem as I use dielectric compound on install of module instead of silicone. I also spray the whole inside of the distributor and the cap and rotor button inside and out with silicone spray. Never had a cap or button burn through.

Will be using this with a 200R4 trans and the center section from A Jaguar rear end to run a PTO shaft driven Generator.

Similar to this but much more compact.

Use to run a sawmill with a '50 Chevy with 2 rims welded together and one side of rear held up with a large log. Had to twist the belt to get saw mill running in right direction. Belt was 20 feet long.

 

[Grumpy]

http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#ICM_cooling

 

[Grumpy]

 

[Grumpy]

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/hei-distributor-upgrade-kits

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/24878/

big block chevy pertronix ignition - Google Search

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-t...efi/basic-musclecar-ignition-system-upgrades/

https://www.jegs.com/p/Proform/Proform-HEI-Distributor-Tune-Up-Kit/748979/10002/-1

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1302-hei-distributor-tune-up/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/1903-rebuild-your-gm-hei-ignition-system/