TRW L2209AF & L2210AF SB Chevy 302 piston specs

I don't fully understand..... the first 3 rows are different between engines
1 & 3, but it sounded like you were making them all the same in your post
above.

Having said all that, it might be simpler to just down load the file again and
delete your original file. There is something wrong with that first file you
have of version 3. Changing a value in the Engine #1 column should have
NO effect on Engine #3.

I downloaded the file again and tested it for consistency, every value was
exactly the same including the calculated ones at the bottom. If you can
email or PM the original file before you delete it, I would like to test it myself
and see where the problem is. You can send it to junk29@cox.net, sorry I
don't want to share my good address on the forum.

Edit Post: I see you made them all the same, but what you did actually turned
out better for identifying the problem...... thanks!!!
 
Please do this for me. Copy all the numbers from the #3 engine into the
other four engines and see if you get exact duplicates in all 5 engines.
That is what I started doing. With 5 different engines in there, #3 not right, I started copying eng 3 data into eng 1.
When I got to line 9 (Top Ring Height) and entered .300, eng 3 changed to the correct SCR, DCR, and Cranking Pressure.

I will download the file again and try to replicate the screwy results.
And I will send the ?damaged? file to that email address.
 
Still NO GOOD Rick.

DCR ver 03 still NG.png
Here is EXACTLY what I did - step by step.
  • Opened the new ver 03 download.
  • Leave engine 1 alone. Start with engine 2 (green).
  • Input the numbers for my 334 SBC. It calculates CORRECT.
  • Enter the numbers for my 302 SBC in engine 3 (yellow). NOT CORRECT.
  • Go to engine 1 and start to enter the same numbers you just entered for engine 3.
  • When you get to line 9 (Top Ring Height), engine 3 will change to the correct calculations after you entered .300.
 
I found my error. As you can see below, the value underlined in RED, should be
"Ring3". All values in the same column should end with the same number. For
example, column "D"(Engine #3) should all end in "3". But instead it ends in "1",
therefore the value used in the Intermediate Calcs came from Engine #1)

Sorry for the confusion, I will post an update tomorrow.

DCR_IntermediateCalc_Error.JPG
 
The adjustment procedure for these lifters is DIFFERENT, you adjust the "clearance" with the plunger bottomed out in the lifter.
http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html "Adjustment is similar to solid lifters. Simply use a feeler gauge to adjust the exact amount of lift reduction you want, anywhere from .010" to .040", and that is exactly what you get at idle. Duration is reduced between 5 and 20 degrees at .050" lift depending on the adjustment."
This cam calls for .022/.024 lash. So you add that lash to the amount of desired lift reduction, and if setting COLD, use the proper lash correction. In my case, it's -.006 for aluminum heads. So, (.022 + .025 - .006) = .041 for INtake, .043 for EXhaust. On the base circle of the cam lobe for the valve you want to adjust, you place that feeler gauge between the valve stem tip and roller wheel of the rocker arm and tighten until the valve is just going to become unseated (with internal plunger of lifter bottomed out). Then lock this adjustment.

I still do not fully understand how this works, but I now have a better understanding of hydraulic lifter operation after solving the mystery
of why those JUNK IMPORT "100% Made in USA genuine Delphi / GM lifters" did not work. Jack Rhoads said that he would explain the VMAX operation to me - maybe it's time I gave him a call.
HOW TO INSTALL AND ADJUST RHOADS V-MAX LIFTERS

THE RHOADS V-MAX VARIABLE DURATION HYDRAULIC LIFTERS ARE ADJUSTED SIMILAR TO SOLID LIFTERS SO READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY

STEP 1

With intake manifold removed and camshaft installed, begin by inserting all lifters into engine block. It is best to keep the intake manifold off so that the lifters can be viewed while adjusting, but it is not necessary. The lifters can be properly adjusted with the intake manifold on as well.

STEP 2

Make sure the lifter being adjusted is on the low side (base circle) of the cam when adjusting, just like you would when adjusting any solid lifter cam. In this position, the valve would be in the fully closed position. For street use place a .020” feeler gauge, (use .030" for racing), or for aluminum blocks use a .010" feeler gauge (or .020" for racing) between the valve stem and rocker arm as if adjusting solid lifters, and tighten the lock nut until the lifter plunger bottoms out in the lifter shell and the valve begins to open. Now back off on the lock nut until the valve just closes and the pressure of the valve spring just begins to release on the feeler gauge. When you can just slide the feeler gauge back and forth with slight drag from the spring, the adjustment is correct. Repeat this process until all lifters are adjusted. After the adjustment, the plunger position should be nearly all the way down to the bottom of the lifter shell, and not up against the retaining ring, with no clearance in the valve train whatsoever. Please remember to adjust the lifter when the valve is in the closed position, or the adjustment will be wrong. For absolute accuracy, the adjustment can be repeated when the engine is at normal operating temperatures, but the adjustment should be made with a .020" feeler gauge (.030" for race) for both cast iron and aluminum heads when the engine is hot. Also, never adjust the lifters at zero lash or looser so that the plunger is up against the retaining clip as standard anti-pump up lifters are adjusted. This will cause valve train damage.

OTHER SUGGESTIONS

You should never adjust the lifters with more than .030 to .035 thousandths of an inch, but you can use less such as .010”-.025”. When checking valve to piston clearances, tighten the lifters to .005” and conduct the test, then readjust them to the proper setting after the test is completed.

By tightening the exhaust valve more, you will get a lopier idle, which is preferred by some who like the sound. For higher compression engines, both the valves may be tightened to help reduce pinging. Also, tightening the adjustment will reduce the ticking sound at idle. This may be helpful with sensitive knock sensors that interpret the ticking as pinging. While this will not hinder the rpm potential of the Rhoads Lifter, the reduction in lift and duration at low speeds will be minimized with a tighter adjustment, yielding smaller increases is low-end torque, engine vacuum and producing a rougher idle.

As mentioned above, Rhoads Lifters sound similar to solid lifters at idle and low speeds. Usually this solid lifter sound is not heard until the engine warms up to near operating temperatures.

Grumpy, do you have any idea how these lifters work being adjusted with the plunger being at the bottom?
 
the basic concept here is that as engines are run the engine generates heat and heat expands the metal the engines built from and as the metal heats and expands that changes the valve train clearances.
now that would be fine if it was 100% consistent ,engine to engine but there are related issues due to wear, fuel octane, etc.
SBCOiling.gif


A-ENGINE-OIL-02-small-block-v8-lub-sys.gif


a valve train in a chevy V8 is cooled and lubed by a constant but intermittent flow of oil from the lifter gallerys oil passages , thats being forced up the push rods to the rockers.
hydraulic lifters use both the engines oil pump pressure to keep them filled and the cam lobes and valve springs to fill then compress the oil flowing into the lifter to force it up the push rods.
solid lifters just use the oil pump pressure and a metered oil feed hole
ILL-VALVETRAIN-1.gif

adjusting the valve train clearance, and keeping it properly adjusted for the average car owner was a P.I.T.A. with solid lifters, because most owners don,t want to hear clicking, pinging or squeaking noises from their engine.
yet they are also very unlikely to be willing to periodically re-adjust valves and change the oil and oil filter every 5000 -7000 miles without fail, so a solid lifter valve train will eventually get out of ideal adjustment much sooner that the self compensating hydraulic lifter design valve train.
hydraulic lifters have a push rod seat cup supported by a small volume of oil under that seat that takes up any valve train clearance or slack, so that there is very little if any valve train noise , that self adjusted the clearance and as the cam lobe sweeps under and lifts the push rod the lifter sliding up the cams initial feed ramp compresses the lifter seat forcing trapped oil up through the push rod too the rockers, this lubes and cools the rockers, WHILE effectively maintaining zero valve train clearance yet NOT physically binding the valve train, as theres always some (GIVE) or clearance due to the oil trapped under the lifters push rod seat if the valves are properly adjusted.
hylifters.jpg

solid lifters don,t have this designed in CUSHION or built in slack/clearance so they must be adjusted with a feeler gauge with the lifter on the cam lobe base ,circle
baselobeda.jpg

theres generally the correct clearance listed on the cam spec card, by the manufacturer and it varies but will generally be in the .018-.024 range on most common Chevy solid lifter cams.
this slack allows for the engine expansion as it heats and cools and once solid lifters are properly adjusted the engine sounds a bit like a muted sewing machine , a sound most old school mechanics and racers tend to remember and appreciate!
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-between-a-solid-and-hydraulic-lifter.10431/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/adjusting-valves.196/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-train-clearances-and-problems.528/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...d-high-spring-pressures-don-t-work-well.1489/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rocker-push-rod-wear-issues.9815/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/oil-system-mods-that-help.2187/
 
Last edited:
When You Get your Program Fixed Rick Let Us /Me know.
It will be Usefull.
Street Performance is In.
And Ultra Fast Street Race.
I want to Download your program to my Laptop .
It will come in Handy for Cars Ed & Me will work on this Summer.
 
It's fixed, the only file available for download is the latest version 4, so
there is noway to get the wrong one.
 
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