Turbo Regal to BBC Regal

T

TType

Member
Hello,
I have been playing with Buick Turbo Regals for a long time now, and really like GNs ad TTypes. I decided to go back to BBC engines, and have an LS7 454 I plan to drop into my '86 TType. Also plan to do a 6-spd, and fuel injection, not sure which one just yet. I want to run the LS7 as is, with its 12.25:1 compression, and too large ported 990 heads. Already have a 9" in the car. I need an intake, not sure which one, but being mainly a street car that I plan to use for daily driving, will lean towards Performer RPM AG. I have alcohol injection on the car already, and plan to use it on the LS7 and Grump's cooling mods to see if I can actually drive such high compression on the street. I also am thinking about mixing my own fuel, and a few other angles. The Turbo cars are awesome, just looking for something slightly less complex that will be just as fun. I might consider a carburetor, but am familiar with FI and have it on the car now. Talk with y'all soon. Best regards, John.
 
Hi.

Unless you run a True Turbo or Race super charger camshaft profile meant for 18-51 psi Boost the Old School Race LS-7 454 will not like today's Gasoline much at all.

The Dynamic compression will be too high for pump gas 91-93.

You said Daily Drive so that is the Key word phrase to work with.

If You do not understand your in the right place to learn.
Grumpy's site.
 
Welcome to the forum John!

This is going to be a very expensive car to drive if you have to mix your fuel to meet the octane
requirements. Is it going to be practical to use alcohol injection, how much can your carry, how
far can you go? I'm only running 8.27/10. 7 compression and I am having some issues with
detonation. That's with aluminum heads, polished cambers, and polished piston tops.
 
you can mix toluene into your higher octane pump gas or buy race octane gas , (both are rather expensive options) or swap to E85 fuel.
yes you can change cams but that will have rather limited success with a turbo and a 12.5:1 compression engine
if you swap to a set of 8.5:1 pistons and the correct cam you'll have much more success with a turbo boosting the engines potential power.
keep in mind turbos work by packing a greater volume of fuel/air mix into the cylinder to be compressed and burned , this boost's the effective working combustion chamber compression and tends to increase the potential for detonation(the reason most turbo and supercharged engines have less than 9:1 static compression and cams designed to bleed off some cylinder pressure and longer exhaust duration to allow the greater volume of burnt fuel gases to have more time to bleed of exhaust pressure and allow for a slightly restrictive exhaust system.
you do have one rather interesting option, if you want to run a turbo on a high compression BBC,
E85 is cheap and will if used in a properly set up engine run very effectively,
IF you can find a consistent local source for quality E85


reading these threads and related included links will help

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ne-running-a-turbo-s-on-e85.10990/#post-73557

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2018/03/331-cid-supercharged-ford-302-engine/

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compression.htm

http://www.wallaceracing.com/boost-compression-ratio-calc.php

http://www.theblowershop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Effective_Compression.pdf

http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/EffectiveCompressionCalc.html

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-octane-for-compression-ratio.2718/#post-7057

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-into-gen1-chevy-small-block.4484/#post-11815

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/dynamic-vs-static-compression.727/#post-44190

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/turbo-big-block.6835/#post-22198

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/supercharger-and-turbo-cams.1226/#post-5647

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-of-photos-of-the-road-trip.9053/#post-32409

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/turbo-maps-and-related-turbo-info.1215/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/chevy-big-block-vi.9857/#post-72462

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/octane-boosters.613/#post-46230

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...temps-detonation-resistance.12842/#post-66668

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/unwanted-engine-bay-heat.12186/#post-59087

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cooler-denser-air.8961/#post-54496

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...n-you-plan-for-quench.11298/page-2#post-51598

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...compression-torque-dcr.1070/page-2#post-52809

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...l-cooler-increases-durability.176/#post-48374
 
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Hi Maniac,
Thanks for the input. I plan to run the LS7 as a normally aspirated BBC, no turbo stuff on it. So, I basically have to deal with high compression on pump/race gas for the street. I'm not sure what cam is in the engine now, as when I bought it there was a solid roller cam installed, and I received another roller cam in a Comp Camps cam box that was used. The box is for a 288AR cam, so not sure if the 288 is in there now, or the 288 was in the box (wrapped-up tight in plastic). I'll open it to see, but I think the 288 is installed right now. The water/methanol injection will help with boosting the octane of 92-93 gas so it can be run, but that adds a complexity issue I want to avoid, but willing to assume for now. If I lower the compression, then it is just another 454 BBC in there, and I like the bling factor of the LS7. The fellow I bought it from guessed the engine should be in the 650hp range with the port work and compression, but we'll see. Best regards. John
 
Hi Rick,
Yes, not too practical for sure. You are right about how far can I go! I would like to drive the car from MA to the Woodward Ave. dream cruise in MI, and so I plan on a logistics exercise for sure. I have a neat little thing from the Turbo crowd, and that is a spare tire well fuel tank. In the Turbo world, that would have held either race gas and be switched to for a race, or water/methanol for injection. Funny thing, my thought was to get away from the complexity issues and do away with relying on fuel injection and boost controlled injection to make it all survive, and just drive a mechanically pump fed BBC as in my old '66 427 Vette. Blown head gaskets or worse are an issue in the turbo world when a pump goes lean and you get things too hot. The other option is an avgas mix, but dealing with lead. If I can safely do away with cats and O2 sensor, then that is a definite option. I defeinitely wan this to be different than what you'd normally see. Best regards. John
 
TType said:
Hi Maniac,
Thanks for the input. I plan to run the LS7 as a normally aspirated BBC, no turbo stuff on it. So, I basically have to deal with high compression on pump/race gas for the street. I'm not sure what cam is in the engine now, as when I bought it there was a solid roller cam installed, and I received another roller cam in a Comp Camps cam box that was used. The box is for a 288AR cam, so not sure if the 288 is in there now, or the 288 was in the box (wrapped-up tight in plastic). I'll open it to see, but I think the 288 is installed right now. The water/methanol injection will help with boosting the octane of 92-93 gas so it can be run, but that adds a complexity issue I want to avoid, but willing to assume for now. If I lower the compression, then it is just another 454 BBC in there, and I like the bling factor of the LS7. The fellow I bought it from guessed the engine should be in the 650hp range with the port work and compression, but we'll see. Best regards. John
Click to expand...
If your going to use Water and Meth injection use only The Snow Performance Meth Injection system made for high compression N/A engines.
It works.
Get the 3-5 gallon tank.
Likely have Trunk mount.
I have installed them in Race Cars Street driven. Its $600.
Don't skimp out.

Other Option is E85 Fuel.
It works.
Depends if you have it local or not.
E85 fuel is the choice here in Illinois- Chicago.
At times its just $1.25 per gallon for 105 RM/2 fuel.
 
Meth injection works best with professional Race Grade Methanol Alcohol Race Fuel.
Mix your own with a Race Speed Shop purchased 5 gallon can such as Torco or VP Race fuels.
 
Hi Maniac and Grumpy,
Snow's methanol set up looks great, thanks for the tip. One question I have is what would be a good set of aluminum heads to run with the stock LS7 high dome pistons? I'm partial to the Brodix Race Rites, and would like to stay under or around the 300cc intake port volume. The rear has 3.50 gears, but might change to get into the 4.10 range or so. Is there a special chamber design needed to work work with the pop-up pistons, or will any combustion chamber close to 119cc work? Open to all suggestions. Thanks. John
 
I love that you are playing around with a T-type Regal/GN. You just don't see those cars anymore.
What about stroking your 454 to a 496?
 
TType said:
Hi Maniac and Grumpy,
Snow's methanol set up looks great, thanks for the tip. One question I have is what would be a good set of aluminum heads to run with the stock LS7 high dome pistons? I'm partial to the Brodix Race Rites, and would like to stay under or around the 300cc intake port volume. The rear has 3.50 gears, but might change to get into the 4.10 range or so. Is there a special chamber design needed to work work with the pop-up pistons, or will any combustion chamber close to 119cc work? Open to all suggestions. Thanks. John
Click to expand...
It should be an open combustion chamber design the LS-7 cylinder heads.
 
Loves302,
I think the longest stroke I want to go on a BBC is 4". If anything, I'll go to a shorter stroke on an engine I've been dreaming of building for a while. I really liked the CanAm cars of the late '60s and early '70s. One particular engine that McClaren ran was a 430 all aluminum Chevy BBC. It had a 3.47" crank, and a 4.44" bore. I like high-revving engines, and that would be awesome to me to have something like that. Most practical would be a 4.5" bore and 3.5" stroke for 445ci. In alight car with manual and high gears - thinking of my old '66 Corvette - that would be a blast. Schmidt builds a 476ci or so with a 3,625 " crank, and pushes over 900hp if I remember. Running an engine over 7,000 rpm is music to my ears.
Maniac,
Thanks for the info on the heads. Will be fun to see what will fit.
Best regards. John
 
the most financially practical version would be a dart 4.5" bore aftermarket block


http://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/3127...MIwIKUi9WM2gIVhbjACh1V8AohEAAYASAAEgLP7vD_BwE
301-31273444.jpg

with a 3.76" forged crank from a 427
and 6.385" connecting rods, with 7/16" ARP 2000 ROD BOLTS
http://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/31263444/10002/-1
(thats going to be close to 478 cubic inches)
boost the compression up to where it matches the fuel octane, lets say 12.5:1,compression
BBC-1PC-01.jpg

add decent flowing aluminum heads
http://www.airflowresearch.com/335cc-bbc-rectangle-port-cylinder-head/

335afr.png

80 lb rated injectors
and a solid roller cam, with roller rockers and a rocker girdle
( personally Id use a 35 lb billet flywheel and dual disc 11" clutch)
crane138871.png

a 8 quart baffled oil pan with windage tray,



decent long tube open headers with a merge headers 20" collector added
and a coil on plug ignition,
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/sucp-0309-new-msd-ignition-system/
crank01-650x487.jpg

sucp_0309_01_z%2Bnew_msd_ignition_system%2Bkit.jpg

with ideally a decent induction system and you'll have exceptional power.
having done some similar projects, totally rebuilding a car and doing engine swaps, repairing and modifying body work and replacing the suspension and exhaust and I know the time and effort required is amazing and just the small parts tools required, the welding skills, trips to get supplies, and time spent looking for the harder to find parts and waiting on simple stuff like getting the correct welding rods and shield gas, sand paper, paint,fasteners,solvents disposable bits, nozzles , brushes and hydraulic fittings, and mask filters tape, adds up far faster than those of us that have not done this type of work could ever understand, then theres always the minor screw-ups that need to be corrected,and the time spent looking for the small part or supplies you purchased two months ago On sale for 1/2 price, you bought in bulk that you can,t locate until the day after you give up looking for them, and buy more! and the people that drop by with projects you really can,t avoid that screw up your (free time)
crazy.gif
sm_laughing.gif

on the PLUS SIDE, if your a tool junkie like I am theres always an endless list of new or better, tools you can easily justify buying... just no cash to do so!
maybe Rick could post a related software dyno estimate
 
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Less cubes does make it easy to hookup .
455 pontiac blows off the rear tires easy unless drag radials or slicks used.
425 Olds in my 63 Gp perfect balance between Hp and torque on street.
Revs fast.

Big cubes will take a 4-link for Race.
 
Grumpy and Maniac,
You guys are great! Glad I found you. All that great eye candy, thanks Grumpy. Yeah, that's what I'm looking for, rpm and hp. I also think softer bottom ends have their place on the street. My '71 LT1 Corvette would only start singing above 4,000rpm, and that was neat. I met Duntov with my LT1 at an anniversary Corvette show, and the LT1 was his baby. His comment - "Nice car".
Best regards. John
 
6500 Redline is good for most.
And will not Give Grumpy a Heartattack.

You never stated your Racing Dodge so no need to go into the Danger Zone with 4.30 -5.86 Rear Diff Gears.
 
TType said:
Loves302,
I think the longest stroke I want to go on a BBC is 4". If anything, I'll go to a shorter stroke on an engine I've been dreaming of building for a while. I really liked the CanAm cars of the late '60s and early '70s. One particular engine that McClaren ran was a 430 all aluminum Chevy BBC. It had a 3.47" crank, and a 4.44" bore. I like high-revving engines, and that would be awesome to me to have something like that. Most practical would be a 4.5" bore and 3.5" stroke for 445ci. In alight car with manual and high gears - thinking of my old '66 Corvette - that would be a blast. Schmidt builds a 476ci or so with a 3,625 " crank, and pushes over 900hp if I remember. Running an engine over 7,000 rpm is music to my ears.
Maniac,
Thanks for the info on the heads. Will be fun to see what will fit.
Best regards. John
Click to expand...

I like the way you think ----- like me.:D
 
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