Unforgiven Project

Indycars said:
There is a screw missing from the windage tray, but it's at the very front of the pan and not close to 3 & 4. But
if that screw got into something where there was not enough clearance, then possibly it started the problem. See
if you can find that screw.
Click to expand...

Nice catch Rick.... I will look for that screw.
I believe you are correct in saying that I would have heard something before hand... and it definitly was heard at the top end.
Something started there... then let loose at an idle.
Best thing I can say at this point is " its better that it let loose at a low RPM.... rather than high RPM's"
It may have limited the carnage to something that can be fixed rather than trash a new block. I can only hope.
I am looking for a brighter side to this... if there is one.
 
Grumpy said:
Id be looking for a failed valve train, as a potential contributing factor, simply because its so common.
Id look if the supercharger injected some trash,simply because its so common.
Click to expand...

Thank you Grumpy....I am going to need direction as to what to look for ... With my depressed spirt now, I am sure I will not be thinking
critically. There will be lots of pics.... Rick has already seen that screw is missing in the pics so far..
It is great to have men on this forum helping me...
Just keep in mind ... I only have 3 hours a night to work on this.. plus the weekends.
 
.
I'm not sure if I was clear when I suggested looking the Failure Zone above, below is the kinda
of thing I was referring to.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cra...PwQ9QEwA3oECAQQDA#imgrc=fNuH_XlTKuepkM:&vet=1

clip_image002_087.jpg


Depend on the rod design of course, the stresses in the threaded area can be high.


failure_aircraft_2.jpg
 
Rut Roh!!!! Step back for a day or two and collect the data from your PC. Have Tyler and Coty pull the heads and inspect as well as cylinder walls. Look closely and take pictures as we might see something you might miss.

It aint the end of the world and your wife still loves you. Yes it is a lot of money, but you aint dead or unable to recuperate from this. Ther's always next year.

I have seen engines from the junkyard with a blower last a long time having fun in the mud.
I had a 454 Chevy engine out of a Generac Generator that had 185 HP with 375 ft lbs of torque that ran at 3600 rpm constantly and then I changed the cam and installed a blower and a quadrajet carb and installed in a '72 short bed 4x4 and ran it until the body fell/rusted off. You can still play this year or stay and play at home until wife says go out and play.
 
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obviously depending on what you find during the disassembly and inspection,
you may find the vast majority of the component parts are re-use-able, or repairable
you may find you only need a new set of gaskets,
a couple rods and pistons , a few rings and bearings,
and a careful block clean up,
perhaps a bore hone and journal polish,
yes a P.I.T.A,, but you might be back in business for a couple hundred ...not thousands of dollars
 
NO WAY!!!!! I feel sick. I am trying to eat my lunch while reading this, and am having a hard time doing so.
You did everything right, and still BLAMMO. It's not right.
 
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Loves302Chevy said:
NO WAY!!!!! I feel sick. I am trying to eat my lunch while reading this, and am having a hard time doing so.
You did everything right, and still BLAMMO. It's not right.
Click to expand...

Life aint fair and shite happens to the best of us.

This is when you pick yourself up by your bootstraps and adjust and overcome all obstacles.
socv8 (2).jpg
 
Brian may be a skilled mechanic .but he jumps to conclusions ...
well before he has facts too base those conclusions on.
everyone needs to deal in facts, you can,t assume anything,
and yes there are fake ARP bolts ,
that may or may not be the case here
but you need to deal in facts, not assumptions
yes much of the imported (chinese) manufactured parts are very low-quality
yes this may be the case here,
yes it looks like it was a fake ARP bolt
yes there are better quality connecting rods ,
CROWER
CALLIES,
OLIVER,
MANLEY,
LUNATI
ETC.

Brian said:
grump never had an engine as powerful as yours"
"ARP bolts are made in china"
Click to expand...
Brian has absolutely ZERO knowledge of how many high horse power engines, Ive built in the past,
especially the BBC engines several of which easily exceeded 750-800 hp
nor does he yet have proof that the problem was a fake arp rod bolt or, chinese made SCAT labeled connecting rod
now I would send that failed rod and bolt too to ARP and then send that failed rod and bolt too scat,
and ask them if its one they manufactured and their opinion on the cause of the failure,
and yes there are people that re-lable, and sell inferior chinese crap quality parts
yes it looks like the connecting rod or the bolt failed,
theres zero question, about that.
obviously the person building the engine selects and installs the rotating assembly
and all SCAT rods and rod bolts are not the same quality,
yes the ARP 2000 or L19 7/16" rod bolts are preferred
Ive built dozens of engines using 7/16" SCAT rods on SCAT cranks
but I generally buy kits with the complete balanced all forged 4340 steel rotating assemblies
from SCAT

Ive been using a set of sbc 6" h beam SCAT 7/16" rod bolt connecting rods similar too these
in my 383 for over 20 years and have even spun the engine to near 6200 rpm when using a wet 175 hp nitrous shot kit
that certainly produces similar power to the failed sbc as it easily exceeded 600 hp,
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-6600021a/overview/

now obviously I had no way to look at or inspect the connecting rods being used,
before or during the install process,
that failed, and yes it looks obvious that the rods or rod bolt failed
but again deal in facts don,t assume anything , everyone makes mistakes,
that includes ALL manufacturers and ALL people building engines



https://www.enginelabs.com/tech-stories/connecting-rod-tech-forged-and-billet-steel-rods/

https://hotrodenginetech.com/connecting-rod-selection/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/rod-bolts-rpm-vs-stress.341/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/types-of-crankshaft-steel.204/#post-41325

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ing-rod-strength-h-vs-i-beam.1168/#post-41255

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/scat-cranks-related-info.10930/#post-47993

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/can-i-get-it-polished.9214/#post-43456

https://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/257...Vh5OzCh3FmA6jEAYYBCABEgKcSPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
 
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I did pull the rocker covers off to see if I had dropped a valve. ALL retainers and valves are there and in great shape. I looked from underneath and the cam is not broke nor does it seem damaged. I pulled the spark plugs and they show a rich condition with no sign of detonation.
After studying the rod bolts and the pan.... I seen that all the rod bolts where hitting the windage tray.
The tray is about 3/16" thick, and was sturdy. Becauase of the open headers, I prolly could not hear that the bolts where hitting the tray. My thoughts ( from looking at the bolt heads) are that , the tray acted like an air hammer hitting the points on the bolt enough to loosen them at higher RPM's and it was just a matter of time before one loosened enough to cause an interferance and start a chain reaction. Whether they were knock offs or not, the bolt snapped. It's just a theory but from looking at the damage, it sounds lodgical.
I will be pulling the engine tonight. From what I could see last night, the cylinders are fine, and the damage was localized at the 3-4 rods and journal. Pistons look OK but I will gauge the wrist pin hole when they are removed.

IMG_0554b.jpg IMG_0569.JPG IMG_0570.JPG
 
yes and its a bit suspect, in that it bent and sheared, obviously it partially loosened at some point
 
I'll get pics of the cap tonight. From the way the cap was peeled away from the crank and rod, shows the it started with this bolt. The sister bolt was the one Rick had asked if it was unharmed earlier. It was not. The cap broke at the threaded hole after being peeled off the crank. The bolt hole was the weakest point and broke away leaving the bolt unharmed.
 
Sorry about That I got my bolts mixed up.. The sister bolt I was talking about above was not the one Rick was asking about. That was on the other
rod which was still on the crank.
 
there was a mark on the passanger side of the block on the pan rail where there is evidence of an interference.
I am confident that this is what peeled the cap off after the bolt came loose. Block is OK though.. Lucky it was Thick. Or it could
have blown through the water passage running through there.
 
On a Happy note! The Doc said I was a "perfect a**hole" and all was good! Said he could not find my Wifes Shoe though...
Says it musta came out during the Prep! :D
 
mistake.jpg This is one of my favorite sayings by a very smart man who was so smart he was dumb in the real world. Couldn't count pocket change but could do math in the millions in his head without a calculator.

So in my eyes I see a failure that needs to be diagnosed and a solution to fixing it. I'm sure you will do just that. Test and evaluate/verify before repairing.
 
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