upgrading SBC crate engine heads

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
Will L 98 ,58cc, 160-165,cc port alum heads (14101128)help performance on a 290hp small block thank you pete.




as compared to WHAT!
L98 heads offer some improvement over SOME other O.E.M SBC heads
L98 heads are a slight upgrade over the stock crate engine heads ,
but certainly not a major improvement compared to other available options,
like in most cases it mostly depends on what other components are used or matched too the heads, cam, headers etc, and there are certainly much better choices!
yes we are almost ALL on limited budgets but careful research helps maximize your power per dollar spent and heads are a huge factor limiting or allowing the engines potential power.

but compared to most current aftermarket heads , and even mildly reworked vortec heads L98 heads are rather pitiful. I certainly could find a better head design without looking very hard.
Think things through carefully and spend money wisely, do your research
heres a typical 290 hp crate engine
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/small-block-350-290-hp.html

RESEARCH CAN SAVE YOU HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS AND WEEKS OF WASTED TIME
http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-the-rabbit-hole-with-alice.10933/#post-66925

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/first-hotrod-build.12902/#post-67005

THERES LOTS OF BETTER CHOICES IN CYLINDER HEADS


youll want to take the time to do the math and compare components, lets for a second assume your,debating these two heads,
if you compare the 195cc vs 210cc AFR heads, all the way
theres a significant improvement in flow and a negligible decrease in port flow speed
theres always a compromise made between cost and potential power,
and obviously you want to match components to the intended power and rpm range,
but having seen a bunch of 383 builds use both AFR heads,
I think the 210cc choice here, is a no brainer if you can afford the price.


heres a chart FROM THE BOOK,HOW TO BUILD BIG-INCH CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS with some common cross sectional port sizes
(measured at the smallest part of the ports)
...........................sq inches........port cc
edelbrock performer rpm ....1.43.............170
vortec......................1.66.............170
tfs195......................1.93.............195
afr 180.....................1.93.............180
afr 195.....................1.98.............195
afr 210.....................2.05.............210
dart pro 200................2.06.............200
dart pro 215................2.14.............215
brodix track 1 .............2.30.............221
dart pro 1 230..............2.40.............230
edelbrock 23 high port .....2.53.............238
edelbrock 18 deg............2.71.............266
tfs 18 deg..................2.80.............250

Potential HP based on Airflow (Hot Rod, Jun '99, p74):
Airflow at 28" of water x 0.257 x number of cylinders = potential HP
or required airflow based on HP:
HP / 0.257 / cylinders = required airflow

if we compare the head air flow rates between a 195cc and 210cc head on a 383-406 SBC and assuming a decent roller cam with the lift and duration,required, and intake that allows the heads to flow at their full potential,
195cc Street Head Flow Chart
.200 .300 .400 .500 .550
Int 146 201 247 275 280
Exh 119 166 197 213 218



210cc Race Ready Head Flow Chart
.200 .300 .400 .500 .550 .600 .650
Int 145 199 255 292 301 309 311
Exh 110 158 192 210 214 220 222


if you compare peak intake rated flow at .550 lift
280 cfm vs 301 cfm (about a 9% increase) youll see why
thats in theory potentially a 43 hp gain



http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-corvette-l98-heads-any-good.5521/#post-23459

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sellecting-cylinder-heads.796/#post-49711

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...d-to-head-test-stock-vs-dart.5364/#post-16066

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sources-for-cylinder-head-flow-numbers.240/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/matching-parts-and-a-logical-plan.7722/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/what-to-look-for-in-a-good-engine-combo.9930/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/380-cu-sbc-in-vortec-head-build.12080/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ghts-on-302sbc-vs-383-sbc-dyno-results.10210/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/383-information-overload.11137/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...gine-to-match-the-cam-specs.11764/#post-55651

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/carb-intake-test.58/

YOU MIGHT FIND A BIT OF READING ,INFORMATIVE AND HELPFUL,
HERE IN THIS ENGINE BUILD LINKED BELOW, INFO THAT MAY HELP
notice they start with a similar crate engine and progressively build to higher power in stages and heads are a key component



http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/goodwrench/GM Goodwrench 350 test part 1.htm

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/goodwrench/gm3502.htm

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/goodwrench/gm3503.htm

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/goodwrench/gm3504.htm

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/goodwrench/gm3505.htm

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/goodwrench/gm3506.htm

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/goodwrench/gm3507.htm

http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/goodwrench/gm3508.htm
 
Last edited:

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
kangaroo said:
Im running the smogger heads ,76CC, now on my daily driver, dish pistons . Looking for a little more power , and also fuel efficiency, BOTH. Are vortecs worth the 1 grand to 1300 hundred in my daily driver 350/350 c-10, stock exhaust , minus the catalytic converter.
Its a daily driver and not looking to make any passes down the quarter mile. Just more bottom end,and fuel efficiency. For what its worth I also have a set of 434 heads that I got from aeorhead many years ago that I have heard nothing but bad things of. 305 cubic inch heads , that have been milled , 2.02 intake valves, I believe 165 on the intake runners.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-to-casting-numbers-and-info.632/#post-55259

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/vin-casting-info.10474/#post-44012

while its true youll gain both significant increases in compression and increased air flow with vortec heads, your not looking to race, and vortec heads might not be the ideal choice,its not that simple,as a head swap, to swap to vortec heads. youll need to change,
your first gen standard intake manifold, won,t seal on the vortec heads,
vortecpic3.jpg

STOCK 170 CC VORTEC HEADS FLOW DECENT NUMBERS
but they can,t come close to a decent set of aftermarket heads

Valve Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 70 48
.200 139 101
.300 190 121
.400 227 140
.500 239 147
.600 229 151

even the 180cc brodix IK heads, can easily produce a bit more power for less total expense, (I generally see 15-25 hp better results)and still use the original intake rockers and valve covers.
obviously the CAM TIMING,COMPRESSION RATIO,INTAKE and HEADER DESIGN can have a big effecton results but you can run at least a 1/2 ratio more on the compresion with aluminum heads and at least potentially that alone is wort about 2% more torque! so even if flow were identical the lower weight, lower likelyhood of detonation, lower total cost and the 2% more torque makes the brodix heads a better value

http://brodix.com/heads-2/small-block-chevrolet-compatible-heads/ik-series
Brodix IK 180 "Out Of The Box" Flow Chart cfm @28" H2O
valve size .200 .300 .400 .500 .550 .600 .700
2.02 intake 138 188 234 243 244 245 ---
1.600 exhaust 112 149 167 175 177 178
ALUMINUM BRODIX HEADS WEIGH LESS ARE LESS LIKELY TO DETONATE AS TEMPS INCREASE AND ARE CHEAPER AND MUCH EASIER TO REPAIR IF DAMAGED

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/iron-vs-aluminum-heads.389/#post-7266

https://www.high-performance-engines.com/cylinder-heads-s/173.htm

_images_vortec-bolt-angle.jpg

vortectostandard.jpg

tpiin33.jpg

the bolt angle is incorrect and ports are taller on the vortec heads, the rockers would generally be self aligning
p177897_image_large.jpg



rockeroilfeed.jpg

longslotz.jpg

check all valve train geometry and clearance on any engine you assemble or modify the valve train on.
bbcvtq5.jpg

bbcvtq6.jpg


on the vortec heads, the valve covers are center bolt, not perimeter bolt like original
rockers, theres adapter plates but they are fairly expensive
91017157_L.jpg


and more than likely valve springs need to be changed along with
valve covers.
now Id also point out that theres better values,
and heads that flow a bit better, without costing a good deal more,
and still allow you to use your existing intake, valve covers...
EXAMPLE

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bro-1021003/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pmx-2168/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-162109/overview/
492v462b.jpg

492v462a.jpg

yes I'm aware most of you will not take the effort to read the links and sub links
thats one reason those guys that do take the effort will tend to have faster cars

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/shopping-for-heads.10602/#post-45479

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1209-eight-budget-sbc-head-shootout/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/sucp-0803-performance-cylinder-head-comparison/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/193-swirl-port-heads.10579/#post-61639

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sellecting-cylinder-heads.796/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ed-up-fuelie-heads-for-cheap.2099/#post-56296

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-not-as-simple-as-i-thought.6181/#post-19320

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...alves-and-polishing-combustion-chambers.2630/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...e-springs-and-setting-up-the-valve-train.181/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-seat-angles-and-air-flow.8460/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-vortec-heads-and-other-heads.401/#post-34996

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...sbc-street-performance-heads.9811/#post-37235
 
Last edited:

Strictly Attitude

solid fixture here in the forum
Grumpy I have a friend that is dead set on iron heads he has a small budget and big dreams that involve a lot of NOS what is your opinion for options here dead set on IRON. We pick on him all the time about it in good humor.
 

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member
the large port iron vortec heads with mild port clean-up work can support in excess of 600 horse power, match those large port vortec heads to a 383-406 SBC with a single plane intake
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2913
and about 11:1 compression, too a low restriction exhaust, tuned headers,and gear the drive train to operate in the 3500rpm-6500 rpm power band and add a decent roller cam like a CRANE 119651 and you might be rather amazed at the results
Large-Port 215cc Vortec Cylinder Head Flow
GM part NUMBER 25534431
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/cylinder-heads-sb/large-port-vortec-bowtie-head-assembly/
25534446/?parent=1062
25534446 is the new improved version, the older part number
GM part NUMBER 25534431 has been discontinued

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-new-215cc-vortec-heads.266/#post-35948

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/cylind...ec-bowtie-head-assembly/25534446/?parent=1062


http://www.hotrod.com/articles/1206phr-383ci-small-block-chevy/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/76178-chevrolet-ht-383-engine/

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/dyno-video-qmp-builds-500-horse-383-stroker/

http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-stories/engine/building-the-little-383-small-block-that-could/

http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-c...-block-in-six-easy-steps-hot-rod-magazine.pdf
useful links

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...s-to-casting-numbers-and-info.632/#post-55259

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/vin-casting-info.10474/#post-44012

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ding-sbc-crate-engine-heads.13041/#post-69328

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...r-piston-dome-or-port-volume.2077/#post-61068

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-new-215cc-vortec-heads.266/#post-35948

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/porting-can-help.462/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sellecting-cylinder-heads.796/#post-49754

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ed-up-fuelie-heads-for-cheap.2099/#post-50526
 
Last edited:

Grumpy

The Grumpy Grease Monkey mechanical engineer.
Staff member




http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/chokepoint-rpm.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/calc-cfm-head.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ca-calc.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/csa-calc.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/area-under-curve.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/calchpaf.php

http://www.wallaceracing.com/throttle-blade-diameter.php

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...mble-and-swirl-quench-squish.4081/#post-12283

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...alves-and-polishing-combustion-chambers.2630/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/port-speeds-and-area.333/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/valve-seat-angles-and-air-flow.8460/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/header-dimension-calculator.15013/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/more-port-flow-related-info.322/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-by-step-guide-with-pictures.5378/#post-73427

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...llecting-cylinder-heads.796/page-2#post-90819

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ng-combustion-chambers.2630/page-3#post-77963

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/the-new-215cc-vortec-heads.266/#post-75012

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2006/11/wet-flow-testing/

https://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-40-wet-flow-revelations-the-monsoon-inside-your-motor/

https://www.musclecardiy.com/cylinder-heads/the-basics-of-wet-flow-cylinder-head-testing-part-4/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ir-ratios-that-gets-ignored.15506/#post-95741

https://www.airflowresearch.com/wet-flow-development/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/cylinder-head-flow-bench/

https://www.chevydiy.com/airflow-basics-for-chevy-small-block-cylinder-heads/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/sucp-0803-performance-cylinder-head-comparison

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/port-speeds-and-area.333/#post-72826



 
Last edited:
Top