back around 1999-2003 I made the trip out to Colorado with Mike ,Frank, and Jack, we made arrangements to meet Sal who had recently moved to Idaho, out near Gypsum Co. where we generally hunt Elk.
I was driving my 1996 ford 4x4 bronco frank drove his 1980 bronco.
We had decided before the season to back-pack into an area in a remote series of smaller canyons that we knew from experience generally held a good herd of elk ,most years.
the reason it was seldom hunted was the area was a bit too steep, and thickly over grown with aspen on one slope and conifer on the far slope in much of the canyons making easy travel for horses a problem, and it was easily an hour and a half too two hours walk in from the nearest logging road access, so we had no walk in visitors. the area had many areas covered in loose brick red dirt or grey shale or pine needles ,most of the time we walked thru either aspen in various stages of loosing leaves or thick conifer. we had to pack carefully, because walking in especially with a heavy packs a real P.I.T.A. and we wanted carry the minimum weight and gear, because if we were successful we would carry more weight in meat out!
We also know that the ranges we would be hunting at would be short and a longer barrel rifle was not needed or as useful as a lighter and shorter carbine.
I decided to carry my sako bolt action mannlicher carbine in 375 H&H, and yes I took a good deal of verbal abuse over that choice.
Especially from Jack who was carrying a 308 win, and had never owned a 375H&H, Jack was a metro SWAT sniper at the time and he choice a Remington 308 carbine with a medium weight barrel with which he could keep very tight groups in practice , Sal had a custom Ruger 77 in 338/06, mike carried a 35 whelen in a 7600 Remington.
I still use my 35 whelen 7600 pump action,and 450 marlin blr
the area we walked into requires walking into a fairly steep side canyon, following a small creek down into a small meadow than walking up into an adjacent drainage and camping while disturbing as little of the area as we possibly could.
We walked into the area at late afternoon and camped cold so as not to make our presents in the area known. we camped on a small bench or step in the side of the canyon slope that was about 60 feet by 15 feet that provided the only reasonably level area that was about 3/4 of the way up a side canyon wall, that night was bitter cold and we had set up camp using three small lean-too tarp shelters which provided minimal shelter , but we all had decent sleeping bags and covers for them.
It sure seemed that morning took a very long time coming, and not starting with hot coffee was at least for me less than ideal.
morning slowly came, the temps were in the 25F-30f range and most of our canteens were 1/2 frozen.
we packed out back-packs and sleeping bags trying to make as little noise as we could and whispered as we discussed the areas in the canyon we expected to see game travel thru as the surge of opening day hunters pushed game into our area from the far more easily accessed areas surrounding us.
Jack and I teamed up and walked down to a rock formation that was about 1/2 way up the side canyon slope and about 1/4 mile further up the drainage.
Once we arrived we found a good location that allowed a good field of fire controlling several hundred square yards in several directions and we both sat looking at slightly different areas of the canyon, hoping to remain totally unseen.
after about 10 am. we we both starting to think the whole idea must be flawed because we could not have seen more than a few mule deer and cow elk,and no legal antlered male elk, which was in theory the reason we had made the effort to pack into this area in the first, place.
we broke out the granola bars and canteens and quietly discussed the absurdity of driving several thousand miles and paying $1000 plus dollars to sit next to a freezing rock watching for elk that we probably would not shoot unless they were better than average in size and had decent antlers because we had learned thru hard experience, that it was a huge and difficult job to dress and pack out an elk from this far off the road.
by about 10.45 A.M. both jack and I were grinning and swapping jokes quietly , and probably not really paying full attention when we herd shots far down the canyon. it was not from the area Frank,mike and Sal had gone to watch, but it seemed to come from about 2/3rds a mile down canyon.
we glassed the area around us then further down canyon, eventually we saw several groups of mule deer moving up the far canyon slope toward us.
at about 11.20A.M. I saw a really impressive mule deer slipping thru the far slope timber, I pointed it out to Jack, I had a mule deer tag so did jack, I glassed the deer carefully and decided Id pass if jack wanted it....I let jack glass the deer with my 10x50mm binoculars.
Jack said it was a really nice mule deer and that I should take it, because He had already taken a nice mule deer two years previously.
Ive taken several nice but not exceptional elk but never as nice of a mule deer as this and the whole discussion had taken about 30 seconds to a minute.
I placed my pack next to the large rock we were sitting next too and used it as a rifle rest.
the range was estimated too be about 275 yards,this was an exceptionally long range shot for the area we hunt,but I looked at the laminated trajectory chart taped to my carbines stock and felt confident it was well within range, I worked the bolt, slid a long cartridge into the chamber and closed the bolt ,I wrapped the sling around my arm, sat where I could support the carbine with my arm resting on my leg and the back-pack for a dead solid rest, I placed the horizontal cross hairs of the scope on the deers upper chest, lead him about 12 inches , with the vertical cross hair on his neck,as he was walking slowly, and as he cleared a group of aspen squeezed off the shot.
Jack muttered something , and as I came off recoil I saw the deer sliding down slope and an aspen tree behind his previous location slowly falling over as the 375 slug had blown a significant chunk off one side, of the aspen.
When Jack saw the aspen starting to fall, he assumed I had hit the tree in front of the deer ,not behind the deer , with the exiting bullet, as he had lost site of the deer.
the deer slid down the slope, after bullet impact until it hit against a aspen tree, and lodged.
I assured him that I thought it was a good well placed shot and we packed up our stuff up, put on our packs to go look.
the slope on both our side and the far slope were far steeper than they looked and it took at least 20 minutes to reach the area the deer had been standing at, there was a noticeable spray of blood on the cut off aspen which was about 4" in diameter, and must have been within feet of the deer as the bullet exited.
after about 30 minutes the other guys in the group showed up to help, most had seen game but nothing worth shooting YET. that would change over the next few days.
we found the mule deer buck about 30 yards down the slope from where he was hit, where he obviously slid ,after being hit and dropped, the bullet punched strait thru but expanded and did a good job of knocking the buck silly as it went thru, and exited.
the bullet had hit just behind the front leg,and exited in a similar location on the other side,of the chest, but a bit lower than expected as the range was closer to 300-310 yards.
the slope was so steep that we tied the bucks antlers, and neck to a near by aspen as far up as we could reach to a rope and a small block & tackle I carry while hunting,and simply allowing the carcase to slide a bit further down hill , which resulted in it hanging mostly off the ground for the dressing out and butchering process, even before I used the block & tackle to lift the deer.
having a small block & tackle is a great help with elk because you can,t lift one .
we packed the meat in large plastic bags and each of us packed out about 30lbs-35lbs of steaks.
Jack later said the 270 grain 375 caliber bullet impact seemed to do more damage to the aspen than the mule deer buck, as it passed thru his chest, it left a 2"-3" diameter area of destroyed meat/organs.
all the guys naturally good Naturedly grumbled about hauling meat out to the truck, but several more guys connected that year so we obviously helped them back pack out their venison as required.
in fact that year we only got one elk but three mule deer bucks so everyone but Frank got a tag filled and Frank had several chances
once back in the trucks the meat was re-wrapped and packed in coolers with dry ice.
Jack purchased a bolt action 375 h&h browning A BOLT rifle for the next years hunt after seeing the results of my 375 H&H carbine, as he was rather impressed with what that carbine had done to that mule deer and cutting the aspen behind the deer as the bullet exited really impressed him!
JACKS A BOLT looked like this
its a rifle I saw advertized about 25 to 35 years ago in one of the shotgun news papers and I decided on the spot to order one ,after looking at the pictures, its proven to be, at least for me the near ideal dark timber spot and stalk and still hunting combo, the only thing I needed to do was bed the rifle action into the stock and epoxy in two
6 inch long, parallel 1/4" sections of screw thread rod under the barrel so 3" of each rod section extended into the fore end and back into the main stock in groove I routed into the fore end,this was necessary because recoil from a 375 H&H without that mod allowed the forward wood (separate stock section with joint under front barrel band)to slide forward, once that was done the rifles been very accurate and dependable,for decades and with several elk and a dozen or more mule deer, to its credit.
the bedding mod is not visible and I can,t see why the factory did not make a one piece stock
Ive owned and hunted with a sako mannlicher carbine in caliber 375 H&H for 25-35 plus years, mine looks very similar to this but mines darker walnut wood.
be aware the wood forward of the barrel band needs to be epoxy bedded to the main stock or it will move forward under repeat recoil.
I cut two parallel grooves inside my front stock extending about 3" in both directions and carefully fitted two 6" long 3/16" thread rods and bedding epoxy, into the grooves, this cured that issue.
if you had a chance to buy a carbine like that Id say jump on it , I paid nearly $1000 for mine decades ago.
and yes both bullet weights work but the 270 grains seem to work better
after dozens of elk hunts in Colorado and Wyoming, I learned you can,t assume you can wonder around a particular area that may look good or one conveniently located close to where your camped,
Successfully looking to find elk, requires, you to cover a good deal of topography and have a decent understanding of what the elk need and are looking to avoid.
it also helps if you have a good understanding of the natural terrain choke points, preferred browse/feed, cover, escape,routes,, bedding areas, water access.etc.
generally most guys won,t get more than a mile off logging road access simply because its too hard to retrieve a downed elk and pack it out where no motor vehicle access is allowed.
you can also find real honey spots if you hunt areas that require you wade creeks or climb or descend into canyons,
I can,t begin to tell you how many times I hunted canyons and had new guys after 1- or- 2 days sit out the rest of the trip hunting near camp rather than climb in and out of canyon country,
as a consequence, I generally learn to pack fairly light, Im prepaired to spend the night if its required and I rarely see other hunters after opening day, in the rather remote canyon country.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... le&Source=
Ive found both 235grain and 270 grain bullets and WW760 with a 215 fed primer works well as an elk hunting load
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212471
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212472
When I first started hunting elk I used to aim a bit lower (1/3rd up) as your suggesting ,thinking that a hit directly thru the heart would produce better results , and perhaps its only because IVE USED A 340 WBY AND A 375 H&H FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF MY ELK HUNTS THAT Ive gotten the results that I have, but I can assure you that shot placement gets the desired results, perhaps its shocking the spine or central nervous system, but the end result is the lungs and arteries above the heart being pulverized drops the elk very effectively.
youll get a dead elk with a decent hit from a reasonable caliber in either location, but its been my experience that the lower impact point tends to result in a frantic death run while the higher point of impact tends to result in a collapse or staggering drunkenly then nose first in the dirt inside a few yards, and yes there's always exceptions,but I can assure you a properly placed 250-270 grain projectile from a 340 WBY AND A 375 H&H gets the elk to drop quickly
I was driving my 1996 ford 4x4 bronco frank drove his 1980 bronco.
We had decided before the season to back-pack into an area in a remote series of smaller canyons that we knew from experience generally held a good herd of elk ,most years.
the reason it was seldom hunted was the area was a bit too steep, and thickly over grown with aspen on one slope and conifer on the far slope in much of the canyons making easy travel for horses a problem, and it was easily an hour and a half too two hours walk in from the nearest logging road access, so we had no walk in visitors. the area had many areas covered in loose brick red dirt or grey shale or pine needles ,most of the time we walked thru either aspen in various stages of loosing leaves or thick conifer. we had to pack carefully, because walking in especially with a heavy packs a real P.I.T.A. and we wanted carry the minimum weight and gear, because if we were successful we would carry more weight in meat out!
We also know that the ranges we would be hunting at would be short and a longer barrel rifle was not needed or as useful as a lighter and shorter carbine.
I decided to carry my sako bolt action mannlicher carbine in 375 H&H, and yes I took a good deal of verbal abuse over that choice.
Especially from Jack who was carrying a 308 win, and had never owned a 375H&H, Jack was a metro SWAT sniper at the time and he choice a Remington 308 carbine with a medium weight barrel with which he could keep very tight groups in practice , Sal had a custom Ruger 77 in 338/06, mike carried a 35 whelen in a 7600 Remington.
I still use my 35 whelen 7600 pump action,and 450 marlin blr
the area we walked into requires walking into a fairly steep side canyon, following a small creek down into a small meadow than walking up into an adjacent drainage and camping while disturbing as little of the area as we possibly could.
We walked into the area at late afternoon and camped cold so as not to make our presents in the area known. we camped on a small bench or step in the side of the canyon slope that was about 60 feet by 15 feet that provided the only reasonably level area that was about 3/4 of the way up a side canyon wall, that night was bitter cold and we had set up camp using three small lean-too tarp shelters which provided minimal shelter , but we all had decent sleeping bags and covers for them.
It sure seemed that morning took a very long time coming, and not starting with hot coffee was at least for me less than ideal.
morning slowly came, the temps were in the 25F-30f range and most of our canteens were 1/2 frozen.
we packed out back-packs and sleeping bags trying to make as little noise as we could and whispered as we discussed the areas in the canyon we expected to see game travel thru as the surge of opening day hunters pushed game into our area from the far more easily accessed areas surrounding us.
Jack and I teamed up and walked down to a rock formation that was about 1/2 way up the side canyon slope and about 1/4 mile further up the drainage.
Once we arrived we found a good location that allowed a good field of fire controlling several hundred square yards in several directions and we both sat looking at slightly different areas of the canyon, hoping to remain totally unseen.
after about 10 am. we we both starting to think the whole idea must be flawed because we could not have seen more than a few mule deer and cow elk,and no legal antlered male elk, which was in theory the reason we had made the effort to pack into this area in the first, place.
we broke out the granola bars and canteens and quietly discussed the absurdity of driving several thousand miles and paying $1000 plus dollars to sit next to a freezing rock watching for elk that we probably would not shoot unless they were better than average in size and had decent antlers because we had learned thru hard experience, that it was a huge and difficult job to dress and pack out an elk from this far off the road.
by about 10.45 A.M. both jack and I were grinning and swapping jokes quietly , and probably not really paying full attention when we herd shots far down the canyon. it was not from the area Frank,mike and Sal had gone to watch, but it seemed to come from about 2/3rds a mile down canyon.
we glassed the area around us then further down canyon, eventually we saw several groups of mule deer moving up the far canyon slope toward us.
at about 11.20A.M. I saw a really impressive mule deer slipping thru the far slope timber, I pointed it out to Jack, I had a mule deer tag so did jack, I glassed the deer carefully and decided Id pass if jack wanted it....I let jack glass the deer with my 10x50mm binoculars.
Jack said it was a really nice mule deer and that I should take it, because He had already taken a nice mule deer two years previously.
Ive taken several nice but not exceptional elk but never as nice of a mule deer as this and the whole discussion had taken about 30 seconds to a minute.
I placed my pack next to the large rock we were sitting next too and used it as a rifle rest.
the range was estimated too be about 275 yards,this was an exceptionally long range shot for the area we hunt,but I looked at the laminated trajectory chart taped to my carbines stock and felt confident it was well within range, I worked the bolt, slid a long cartridge into the chamber and closed the bolt ,I wrapped the sling around my arm, sat where I could support the carbine with my arm resting on my leg and the back-pack for a dead solid rest, I placed the horizontal cross hairs of the scope on the deers upper chest, lead him about 12 inches , with the vertical cross hair on his neck,as he was walking slowly, and as he cleared a group of aspen squeezed off the shot.
Jack muttered something , and as I came off recoil I saw the deer sliding down slope and an aspen tree behind his previous location slowly falling over as the 375 slug had blown a significant chunk off one side, of the aspen.
When Jack saw the aspen starting to fall, he assumed I had hit the tree in front of the deer ,not behind the deer , with the exiting bullet, as he had lost site of the deer.
the deer slid down the slope, after bullet impact until it hit against a aspen tree, and lodged.
I assured him that I thought it was a good well placed shot and we packed up our stuff up, put on our packs to go look.
the slope on both our side and the far slope were far steeper than they looked and it took at least 20 minutes to reach the area the deer had been standing at, there was a noticeable spray of blood on the cut off aspen which was about 4" in diameter, and must have been within feet of the deer as the bullet exited.
after about 30 minutes the other guys in the group showed up to help, most had seen game but nothing worth shooting YET. that would change over the next few days.
we found the mule deer buck about 30 yards down the slope from where he was hit, where he obviously slid ,after being hit and dropped, the bullet punched strait thru but expanded and did a good job of knocking the buck silly as it went thru, and exited.
the bullet had hit just behind the front leg,and exited in a similar location on the other side,of the chest, but a bit lower than expected as the range was closer to 300-310 yards.
the slope was so steep that we tied the bucks antlers, and neck to a near by aspen as far up as we could reach to a rope and a small block & tackle I carry while hunting,and simply allowing the carcase to slide a bit further down hill , which resulted in it hanging mostly off the ground for the dressing out and butchering process, even before I used the block & tackle to lift the deer.
having a small block & tackle is a great help with elk because you can,t lift one .
we packed the meat in large plastic bags and each of us packed out about 30lbs-35lbs of steaks.
Jack later said the 270 grain 375 caliber bullet impact seemed to do more damage to the aspen than the mule deer buck, as it passed thru his chest, it left a 2"-3" diameter area of destroyed meat/organs.
all the guys naturally good Naturedly grumbled about hauling meat out to the truck, but several more guys connected that year so we obviously helped them back pack out their venison as required.
in fact that year we only got one elk but three mule deer bucks so everyone but Frank got a tag filled and Frank had several chances
once back in the trucks the meat was re-wrapped and packed in coolers with dry ice.
Jack purchased a bolt action 375 h&h browning A BOLT rifle for the next years hunt after seeing the results of my 375 H&H carbine, as he was rather impressed with what that carbine had done to that mule deer and cutting the aspen behind the deer as the bullet exited really impressed him!
JACKS A BOLT looked like this
its a rifle I saw advertized about 25 to 35 years ago in one of the shotgun news papers and I decided on the spot to order one ,after looking at the pictures, its proven to be, at least for me the near ideal dark timber spot and stalk and still hunting combo, the only thing I needed to do was bed the rifle action into the stock and epoxy in two
6 inch long, parallel 1/4" sections of screw thread rod under the barrel so 3" of each rod section extended into the fore end and back into the main stock in groove I routed into the fore end,this was necessary because recoil from a 375 H&H without that mod allowed the forward wood (separate stock section with joint under front barrel band)to slide forward, once that was done the rifles been very accurate and dependable,for decades and with several elk and a dozen or more mule deer, to its credit.
the bedding mod is not visible and I can,t see why the factory did not make a one piece stock
Ive owned and hunted with a sako mannlicher carbine in caliber 375 H&H for 25-35 plus years, mine looks very similar to this but mines darker walnut wood.
be aware the wood forward of the barrel band needs to be epoxy bedded to the main stock or it will move forward under repeat recoil.
I cut two parallel grooves inside my front stock extending about 3" in both directions and carefully fitted two 6" long 3/16" thread rods and bedding epoxy, into the grooves, this cured that issue.
if you had a chance to buy a carbine like that Id say jump on it , I paid nearly $1000 for mine decades ago.
and yes both bullet weights work but the 270 grains seem to work better
after dozens of elk hunts in Colorado and Wyoming, I learned you can,t assume you can wonder around a particular area that may look good or one conveniently located close to where your camped,
Successfully looking to find elk, requires, you to cover a good deal of topography and have a decent understanding of what the elk need and are looking to avoid.
it also helps if you have a good understanding of the natural terrain choke points, preferred browse/feed, cover, escape,routes,, bedding areas, water access.etc.
generally most guys won,t get more than a mile off logging road access simply because its too hard to retrieve a downed elk and pack it out where no motor vehicle access is allowed.
you can also find real honey spots if you hunt areas that require you wade creeks or climb or descend into canyons,
I can,t begin to tell you how many times I hunted canyons and had new guys after 1- or- 2 days sit out the rest of the trip hunting near camp rather than climb in and out of canyon country,
as a consequence, I generally learn to pack fairly light, Im prepaired to spend the night if its required and I rarely see other hunters after opening day, in the rather remote canyon country.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... le&Source=
Ive found both 235grain and 270 grain bullets and WW760 with a 215 fed primer works well as an elk hunting load
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212471
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i ... =000212472
Arac said:
Maybe it is just me, but that spot looks a bit high, no?
When I first started hunting elk I used to aim a bit lower (1/3rd up) as your suggesting ,thinking that a hit directly thru the heart would produce better results , and perhaps its only because IVE USED A 340 WBY AND A 375 H&H FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF MY ELK HUNTS THAT Ive gotten the results that I have, but I can assure you that shot placement gets the desired results, perhaps its shocking the spine or central nervous system, but the end result is the lungs and arteries above the heart being pulverized drops the elk very effectively.
youll get a dead elk with a decent hit from a reasonable caliber in either location, but its been my experience that the lower impact point tends to result in a frantic death run while the higher point of impact tends to result in a collapse or staggering drunkenly then nose first in the dirt inside a few yards, and yes there's always exceptions,but I can assure you a properly placed 250-270 grain projectile from a 340 WBY AND A 375 H&H gets the elk to drop quickly
Last edited by a moderator:
