using my 45/70 marlin

grumpyvette

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back in about 1975-1980 I purchased a marlin lever action 45/70 , mostly because it provides one of the very best rifles to use hard cast bullets in, and that significantly reduces the cost of ammo
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my first trip to the local range showed the rifle to be extremely accurate with hard cast 350 grain bullets over a stiff load of imr 4198 and a 215 federal primer,I cast from wheel weights and 5% tin alloy sized to .459, groups of under 1" for 3 shots off the bench at 100 yards were common.yeah, been there many times, back in the 1970s I saw a buddy impressively drop two deer in very rapid succession at about 200 yards with a marlin 444,
he used 240 grain soft point bullets
I went out and bought one, it worked ok, it worked better after I found 265 grain hornady bullets,
but after awhile in the later 1980s I upgraded to a marlin 45/70 , and got into casting 350 grain, bullets and eventually upgraded to a 450 marlin BLR, when they came out with those in about 2000, using 405 grain bullets,
accuracy and stopping power were marginally better after each upgrade, as group sizes shrunk and bullet weight increases and AS I GAINED MORE EXPERIENCE AND SKILL,
the results I got improved.(group sizes became more consistent and slightly smaller, with each change)

now I'm not about to suggest there was anything wrong with any of those calibers, or rifles and,
I doubt any deer or elk would not have dropped if hit well with any of those rifles.
certainly all those rifles would shoot under 2" bench rest groups and the BLR is consistently under 1" three shot groups off the bench rest,
but I don,t know anyone who can keep a consistent 2" or less 100 yard three shot group shooting from a field position,
so I doubt any deer or elk would notice.

but I certainly felt each upgrade was worth the money
velocity was not super high, probably near 1800-1860 fps, JACK was 100% convinced the 45/70 would prove to be an excellent elk rifle after seeing how in stomped deer id shot, but I was always hesitant because I knew the range and trajectory limitations, but after thinking about how rarely we had seen elk out past 200 yard I decided to bring the rifle as my back-up elk gun.
so it was not long before I took the rifle deer hunting where it proved to be one of the best rifles Ive ever owned, fast handling ,accurate, and it seriously hammered deer so I started thinking seriously about ELK, so on the next trip I brought it along as my spare rifle, during the first three days I hunted with my 340wby like I do most years but we seldom saw elk and watching the usually saddles proved to be wasted time.
So on the fourth day of the hunt I started still hunting the lodge-pole pines and conifer thickets on the north and east facing slopes of a couple canyons and glassing the south and western slopes that tend to be much less thickly covered with vegetation in most canyons.
that's the type of hunting that's usually proven to be productive after the first few days when the elk may be more willing to expose them self's during day light in open areas, but they soon learn to stay in the thicker cover on the remote area slopes, where they can find water and cover after opening day confusion. that day turned rather cold and it started to intermittently snow and sleet, making hunting a bit less enjoyable, but it seemed to get the elk moving a bit as I saw several cow elk sneaking thru timber at times, use of a cow call tended to stop them, but I only had one bull elk tag and wanted a really clear shot,so cow elk were not on the menu, about 5 pm I was sitting on a stump in the edge of a clear cut logged area thinking about how cold I was, and thinking about the walk back to camp for some hot coffee mixed with coco and a warm sleeping bag, when I noticed movement at about 120 yards , I slowly dropped behind the stump and used my day pack as a cushion for the rifle and watched the the rifles 4x scope as several cow elk drifted in and out of the mixed brush., the sun was rather low and lighting was less than ideal, but I eventually made out the 4 legal antler tines in the bulls rack moving in the brush on the edge of the clearing.
once a shoulder was exposed, I lined up the cross hairs in the scope just behind the shoulder about 1/3 way up the chest and fired figuring on breaking him down, before he ran up over the ridge into the adjacent steep canyon. at the shot ,I saw a good deal of water droplets fly off the bull where the slug impacted and it temporarily staggered him, he bolted and started running as if unhurt, but it rapidly became obvious he was hard hit, as he was circling back and fell within a few yards.
JACK had been sitting on a stump about 200 yards further along the ridge watching his own section of the clear-cut and he walked over to see what Id shot at.
we looked for the bull in the failing light and found him after about 5 minutes of looking, the area always looks different once you start moving so it helps to take your compass bearings and locate obvious features to key your location from,especially as it was snowing lightly and starting to look like it might snow harder.
the hard cast slug had zipped thru, the rear of the near shoulder,expanded slowly, and it exited the far side lung, the bull had run about 20 yards but mostly in a circle starting uphill and curving so he was headed down hill before he eventually fell between two stumps on the far edge of the clear cut, I tied a large orange ribbon on the tree next to the bull as it was getting dark, and left a trail of ribbons on branches walking directly down hill as I walked to the logging road a few hundred yards lower to get help dressing out and packing out the bull.
I got all the Coleman lanterns in camp filled with fuel, as it was cold and pitch black,and started back with several of the guys,because we had no idea if the snow would make finding the bull far more difficult by morning, it took us about an hour to find the bull, and several hours to pack him the several hundred yards to the truck on the logging road, but we eventually got most of his meat packed into a 160 qt and a 72 qt cooler with lots of dry ice.
 
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If you hunt with almost any 458 caliber rifle your bound to have someone ask you why you need a cannon to hunt deer or elk, well the truth is a 30/06 or 270 will do those jobs but whats the fun in that!?

I think we have all had a few encounters with folks like that, I don,t let it bother me in fact its fun at times to play along, when I purchased my 458 win mag I figured Id take it out and use it on an elk hunt (loaded down to 1800fps with a 405 gain remington bullet) for sneaking thru the thicker lodge pole and conifer thickets, where ranges tend to be well under 200 yards,and yes if your interested it works great.
I got a really good deal on a Remington 700 custom 458 win mag rifle after the previous owner decided almost instantly after firing a few times off the bench rest that it was just a great deal more dangerous to his shoulder, to own the rifle than it would be to his checking account balance if he sold it at a significant price reduction.
I mounted a leopold 2.5X scope and felt I had a decent timber rifle that might raise a few eyebrows but certainly would not be lacking in punch or knock-down, even if the recoil was a bit bore than ideal.
if your a bit of a rifle loony, you have at least wanted to try a 458 win or you might own one.
for many years it was about the only really common ELEPHANT RIFLE caliber familiar to most American hunters who failed to read a great deal , as it was always listed on those rifle charts the magazines published and gun-shops had posted, on their walls.
well I succeeded in finding a good deal on a 458 win rifle at a local gun-shop, when its previous owner decided that it was beating him half to death with recoil, after less than 12 shots were fired.
the gun-shop owner was a friend and knew how much of a rifle nut I was so when I was offered a Remington 700 custom shop 458 win, for $700 it found a new home.
and carrying a 458 win in the field is usually a good conversation starter if nothing else.
I started out with some Remington 405grain bullets I had in inventory, loaded over some imr3031 as suggested in one manual, and I found the accuracy was good but the recoil was formidable.
and its fun watching guys faces when they ask you what caliber your using when you reach into a pocket and hand them a cigar size 458 win cartridge, it makes for some silly but entertaining conversations, especially when they show you they have a 243 win, for example,... and don,t get the idea a 458 wins necessary or required, it may be a great choice under some conditions but a skilled hunter with a 25/06 or 270 win can kill deer/elk just as effectively, but as a conversation starter a 458 win works rather well.
now obviously you don,t need to load to its max potential in bullet weight or velocity , as hot 45/70 level loads will drop anything in north America convincingly in skilled hands, with decent shot placement.
 
I recently had the opportunity to accompany Jack on a local hog hunt.
JACK HAD PURCHASED MY OLD 45/70 WHEN I upgraded to my 450 marlin caliber BLR (browning lever rifle)several years ago, and when I sold him the rifle I donated a couple boxes of hand loads that Id made up for that rifle because thats what the rifle was sighted in for and with, its loaded with a hard cast gas check 355 grain bullet from a NEI mold, hes continued to load the same ammo over the years, with bullets I cast for him..
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sized .459 loaded over 45 grains of IMR 3031 and a 215 federal primer which Ive found is an excellent deer and hog load that will also kill elk very efficiently.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... fle&Source
Jacks always hunted with a 308 win and as such hes always been a bit suspicious of using what he has always felt was an antique rifle with slow bullets.
you might want to remember that 60 million buffalo , and millions of deer were killed with calibers like the 45/70 using cast bullets, long before high velocity jacketed cartridges were available, so don,t assume the slugs bounce off or won,t do the job well.

Jack had checked the rifles zero and accuracy at the local range and found it was dead on where I had said it would be printing slugs in a tight group 3.5: high at 100 yards where I site all my big game rifles, this puts that rifle about dead on at about 175 yards.
anyway, Jack picks me up at about 6 am and we drive to a local ranch thats invited him over to hunt, we arrive at about 7:30-8:00am which is when the ranch owner suggested, and hes hopefully we will eliminate a hog or two.
in Florida hogs on private property can be shot year round in many areas.
now starting a hunt that late in the morning is not ideal. but the guy who owns the ranch assured us that we would have little trouble finding a hog to shoot.
he suggested we walk a well worn dirt two track road that zig zaged around the area between a few small lakes, over several thousand acres,on the ranch, the area was mostly wooded and pine and palmetto scrub ,(similar to these pictures)
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typical palmetto thickets where 20 -40 yard shots are the normal range, and where some areas where use of a climbing tree stand offer's you a big advantage

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when I told the guy Id have difficulty walking due to previous injury's he provided a golf cart. (similar to this

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JACK started walking slowly up the road and I followed, but kept as far back as I could while still keeping jack in site, ahead of me on the strait sections that meant about 100-120 yards on some sections that resulted in needing to keep up closer to 40-60 yards , luckily the electric golf cart was not all that noisy and the ranch owner made a point of telling us the hogs would ignore the sound as he did chores with it all the time and at times would have hogs cross the road within 40-50 yards of him even when it was driving and noisy.
well the place was pretty obviously tore up with hog rooting sign but we failed to see any hogs for the first hour or so, Jack was a bit upset as the guy had described the area as virtually paved with hogs, and while we were taking a break discussing things and Jack was leaning on the golf cart , sure enough I spotted a couple hogs off in the brush at about 200 yards ac-crossed a wet area that was partly covered between the higher areas with about 6"-18" deep water in places and mostly covered in matted down saw grass where it bordered what looked like a drainage canal, or ditch along the edge of a plowed raised field. Jack leaned over the golf cart hood after placing his back-pack on the hood as a rifle rest , sited in, I told him to put the horizontal cross hair in the scope so it looked to be about 2" down from the hair line, on the hogs back,and the vertical cross hair on the back edge of the front leg, as soon as a broadside angle shot was presented. he squeezed off a shot and about a dozen hogs we had not seen started running from darn near everywhere near where he shot the hog he was aiming at.
that hog ran in a tight circle than dropped, when we walked over it was obvious the hard cast slug had zipped strait thru leaving a small entrance and exit hole.
after dragging the hog back to the golf cart we loaded it up, on the hood of the cart , it was about 120 lb hog which is usually good size for eating.
we drove back to the guys house where he hung the hog from a large oak tree with a chain jack, allowing us to butcher the hog over a large plastic sheet on the ground, which we loaded in a trash can, once we were done, As he had suggested , and per his instructions and loaded the meat into a cooler we had brought along with a 20 lb bag of ice after removing most of the cold drinks to make room for the 1 gallon zip loc bags we had placed the meat in. Jack was impressed with the internal damage the 45/70 cast bullet had done, the heart and lower lungs were jelly.
Jack offered me some of the meat but I assured him I would come by if he had a cook-out but didn,t want any meat now, and suggested he soak any wild hog meat over night in a mix of a quart of orange juice , and a cup of molasses, and a 1/2 cup white vinegar , in the zip loc bags while it sits in a refrigerator, to soak the nite before its cooked,, before slow cooking it for a bar-b-Que , as it tends to make the meat taste a bit better. (btw you then coat the meat in your favorite bar-b-que sauce wrap it in tin foil and slow cook it for several hours, at medium heat, till the meats just falling off the bones)


have you ever been really impressed with a friends rifle...decided to buy a similar rifle only to realize it was not as ideal or impressive as your first impression?
obviously we all have different requirements and experiences,and each of us will like or appreciate different things.
Obviously my choices may not match your criteria, or aesthetic values.
back in about 1967 one of my hunting buddies purchased a marlin 444, he made some very impressive, shots and it seemed to drop deer like thors hammer,
after I purchased a similar rifle and used it for a dozen plus years, I was less impressed, and while that 444 marlin, performed well, and and after I had the time to compare it to a very similar marlin in caliber 45/70.
Well at least too me I was much more impressed with the 45/70's performance and after several decades, of using both occasionally, on hunting trips, ,
over about 30 years of hunting with the marlins,
I purchased a browning BLR , in caliber 450 marlin,
I sold both the marlin's ,
the 444 a few years after I bought the 45/70 marlin,
that as I felt that was a big improvement over the 444,
and the 45/70, was sold eventually as I felt that the 450 marlin caliber BLR, was a big improvement over the marlin 45/70.
the BLR was the noticeably superior choice,in my opinion, as it was the most accurate Id found and had a stronger action.
btw in that 450 marlin BLR, 50 grains of imr 3031 over a 215 fed primer and using a 405 Remington soft point has proven too be exceptionally effective.
 
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