valve spring compressors and checking springs

[grumpyvette]

now IDEALLY youll be working with the engine out of the car and the cylinder heads on a bench, and you'll need a few decent tools and some concept of what your looking at, and what your trying to do.
many guys prefer to remove the inner dual spring (if your heads are so equipped) during the cam break-in process to reduce the cam lifter contact loads and reduce the potential for the cam lobes and lifter bases to wear excessively, until the parts are lapped into a smooth mated surface.
now its fare easier to work on the heads if they are off the engine but obviously youll need the type of spring compressor that works with the heads mounted on the engine to re-install the inner springs later.
obviously youll want to coat the cam lobe and lifter bases with a good moly cam lube

changing valve springs on the car

now most shops will rotate the cylinder to TDC and install an adapter for an air hose and pump a steady 100-130psi into the cylinder to hold the valves closed, but theres frequently clearance problems with headers and the adapters or hose and since you need to wack the valve retainer with a...

garage.grumpysperformance.com

Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) has been used for decades in lubricating pastes and greases because it is slippery and forms a protective coating on metal parts:

Single Molecule of MolyMoly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.

The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.

This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance.
This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out

youll need to read thru these threads


but the basic idea is that youll need to know the installed height, the coil bind height, the clearances and spring load rates, and install the springs to match the manufacturers intended load rates and clearances for the application,thus at least partly insuring the valve train components can stabilize the valve train at the intended rpm band,and control valve float. any spring that fails to meet specks by more than about 7% in load rates should be replaced, and you need to be sure the clearances are correct and the rocker geometry is set up to place the majority of the pressure during the rockers arc in the center of the valve to limit side loads and wear on the valve guides.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

heads off the car

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

heads on the car


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

Proper push rod length is absolutely critical for peak performance—minimizing bent or broken valve stems, guide wear, and energy-wasting valve side-loading friction.
With the lifter located on the round base circle, position the Push Rod length Checker (make sure you have the Checker with the proper diameter hole) over the stud. Ideally the Checker should contact the top of the push rod and the valve tip evenly at the same moment, should the Checker contact the push rod first, measure the gap between the front of the checker and the valve tip, and purchase a shorter push rod of the correct length. Should the Checker contact the valve tip first, measure the gap between the back of the Checker and the top of the push rod, and purchase a longer push rod
you can change installed height of valve springs thru, machining the valve spring seat depth deeper,or the use of SHIMS under the valves, to shorten the height or different valve spring retainers, even different spring dia.and coil sizes and different valve keepers and even different length valves.

Hey grumpy, my cars engine started running like crap, and the valve springs on two valves started ticking ,
( I pulled this picture off the internet, its not my engine) but it looks very similar to my engines valve springs
so obviously, Ill need to be removing,and replacing the valve springs,

removing,and replacing the valve springs,
testing and replacing valve springs can be done with the heads on the car, but its far easier to do correctly with the heads off the car.

youll eventually find a need to replace valve springs on any car that you either race or replace a cam in its engine so youll need the correct valve spring compressor tool
http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/prod ... category=6

THIS TOOL WORKS OK ON SINGLE SPRINGS BUT NOT DUAL VALVE SPRINGS
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-4573/media/images

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w ... dia/images

THIS TOOL IS A BIT FLIMSY BUT WORK ON MOST HEADS WITH STOCK SPRINGS BUT ONLY WITH THE HEADS OFF THE ENGINE

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-9 ... dia/images

THIS TOOL WORKS ON SOME HEADS BETTER THAN OTHERS, WITH THE HEADS ON OR OFF THE ENGINE

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-6 ... dia/images

these links should help you understand the subject

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=903&p=10020&hilit=change+valve+springs#p10020

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4957&p=13739&hilit=spring+bind#p13739

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=181&p=19783&hilit=change+valve+springs#p19783

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=6237&p=19552&hilit=change+valve+springs#p19552

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4962&p=13780&hilit=change+valve+springs#p13780

youll generally do that too get the correct clearances and load rates
removing the inner springs for the first hour of run time will tend to help
adding a ZddP additive will also

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1191&p=4497&hilit=+break+moly#p4497

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=16&p=1173&hilit=rope+adapter#p1173

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=2187


http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=456&p=8844&hilit=break+in+moly#p8844
READ THE SUB LINK INFO POSED ABOVE IN THIS THREAD

 

[grumpyvette]

reading links and sub links can provide you with a great deal of related info youll most likely need

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=404&p=496&hilit=rope+adapter#p496

http://www.superchevy.com/tech/0109sc_m ... e_springs/

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/busted-valve-spring.7716/#post-26282

now most shops will rotate the cylinder to TDC and install an adapter for an air hose and pump a steady 100-130psi into the cylinder to hold the valves closed, but theres frequently clearance problems with headers and the adapters or hose and since you need to wack the valve retainer with a plastic hammer at times to get them free.......
yeah, IVE use air pressure frequently, BUT IVE NEVER TRUSTED air pressure ....and HATE paying rental fees.....if you don,t have the adapters or compressor,ETC. Ive usually prefered the old method of manually turning the cylinder to bottom dead center and removing the spark plug, then inserting about 10 feet of 3/8" cotton rope into the cylinder(TIE A KNOT in the end to prevent it from falling ALL the way in) then spin the engine MANUALLY (NOT WITH THE STARTER) to as close to TDC,as the crank will spin. this compresses the rope into a wad that supports the valve physically preventing its movement, down into the cylinder, once the valve springs replaced , you rotate the cylinder to BDC and remove the rope, proceed to the next cylinder

BTW I vastly prefer these

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRO-66784&N=-114082+115&autoview=sku

to these

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MAN-41830&N=-114082+115&autoview=sku

but if you use an air compressor youll NEED these
http://www.tavia.com/cat15.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/universal- ... 92900.html

BTW if you go to change the valve springs with the heads still on the engine, most guys use the hose they use to do a compression check and the spark plug adapter and pump the cylinder up with about 125 psi of air to hold the valves shut while they do it, yeah it usually works just fine.

(yeah theres a different method)
(1)disconnect the battery
(2) remove the spark plugs, and rocker arms
(3)turn the first cylinder to BDC BYE HAND or someplace close to that
(4) insert one end of 5 ft of 3/8" rope into the cylinder thru the sparkplug hole and be sure you tie a KNOT in the other end
(5) rotate BYE HAND,the engine until the rope compresses against the valves holding them in place
(6)REPLACE THE SPRINGS on that cylinder while the valves are held to the combustion chamber roof
(7)rotate the cylinder back to BDC
(8)pull out the rope

(repeat 7 more times) :laughing:

yeah! the air USUALLY works but I don,t trust it EITHER, I want those valves locked from falling into the cylinder PHYSICALLY

BTW youll want one of these or something similar

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM-906784&autoview=sku

IVE done it both ways many times, Ive never trusted the air alone but Ive used it without problems in the past, the ropes usually not a problem,, and yeah theres the potential for it to tangle but I have not had that happen either



The first method involves using about 10’ piece of 3/16 nylon rope that you can get at the hardware store. Do not use binding twine or any type of rope that easily breaks apart. Simply remove all the spark plugs and, with the piston at its lowest point of its travel, insert at least 5-6 feet of rope into the cylinder through a spark plug hole:

Then slowly and gently hand-rotate the motor in the direction of normal travel until it won’t turn anymore. Give a slight tug on the rope and it should not want to easily pull out of the cylinder. Then you can install your valve spring compressor and confidently remove the keepers and springs. Once the work is done, turn the motor by hand in the reverse direction and you should have no problem pulling the rope out of the cylinder. This is a very cheap and effective solution.



The second method utilizes a compression tester hose and an air compressor. You only need the hose part and it normally will attach to your compressor air hose fitting. If you determine that your fittings will indeed match, you will need to take one additional step. You must remove the Schrader valve that is found on the “screw-in end” of the compression tester hose. Luckily the valve is the same type as is found in a tire valve stem so the same tool is used for removal:

Now you are set. Remove a spark plug and bring that cylinder to TDC (top dead center.) In this method, I normally leave all other spark plugs in their appropriate cylinders until it is time to work with that particular cylinder. This helps to keep the whole motor from spinning over easily in the next step. Now screw the compressor fitting hose (and adapter, if required) into the spark plug hole and then connect the hose to your compressor air hose:

If you are lucky, the air pressure will not rotate the motor and the piston will remain at TDC. Irregardless, the air pressure will help keep the valves in the upright closed position. When the work is done and the valves are once again supported by their springs and valve locks, you can disconnect the air hose and relieve the air pressure found in the cylinder.

The air hose method can also be considered a poor man's leak-down tester. With the rockers backed off the valves and air pressure applied, listen for air rush at the car and at the exhaust. There should be no sound of air rushing from those 2 areas. A little leakage is normal from the crankcase, but the true amount lost can't determined without using a leak-down tester.

 

[Indycars]

Has anyone had experience with this valve spring compressor ??? I will be working with open spring pressures of 325 lbs. I don't need fast, just something that works !

$45.95
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WMR-W89409/

 

[grumpyvette]

yes I own a couple!
when the first one broke I assumed it was defective..its worked for several engines, but when you use the stiffer springs its at its limits...when the second broke I went and bought the better one
yes you may have the less expensive valve spring compressor design work for years BUT Id suggest you get the better design if you think you may be doing it more that once

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66830

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-6 ... toview=sku


thats why I broke down and bought the better design BLUE DESIGN I POSTED

THESE LINKS MAY ALSO PROVE TO BE USEFUL

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=7716&p=29813#p29813

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=528&p=46440&hilit=shims#p46440

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=903&p=12435&hilit=valve+spring+compressor#p12435

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=2787&p=7220&hilit=valve+spring+compressor#p7220
valve spring compressors
the valve spring compressor design you use and the use of a large strong magnet can significantly reduce the tendency of those little S.O.B,s from poping off to parts unknown

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DCA
$12 or so spent on a decent magnet placed next to the valve keepers during the removal process tends to significantly reduce the chances of lost valve keepers

valve spring compressors

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/62371/10002/-1

theres several manufactures of similar valve spring compressors to those shown above and theres obviously a large variation in valve spring load rates , Ive used similar valve spring compressors in the past and they worked fine, but I,ve also seen some really cheap flimsy clones so inspect what your buying carefully or rent one from a tool rental place before investing in one to see how you like it.
I buy most of my replacement valve springs from these guys
http://www.racingsprings.com/
(866) 799-9417
http://www.racingsprings.com/Staff
heres their ph#
Toll Free (866) 799-9417
I always just order the springs retainers valve locks and spring seats as a package deal (NOT CHEAP BUT EVERYTHING WORKS AND FITS) then you just need shims under the valve spring seats occasionally to get the correct installed height

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900013/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900012/overview/

I watched that video, and my first thought was......
hey I'm a tool junky, so what will this new tool do for me?
great, she has a rocker and she is depressing a valve spring and it reads 100 psi?
NOW what?
what does that tell her?
how far was the valve spring depressed too read 100 psi? if the valve retainer moved with that tool on the rocker at 100 psi, then thats a ROUGH guide to finding valve seat pressure
what she has there is a tool that might easily be used to locate a cracked or broken valve spring,
but not much else in the way of useful data, could be found with it, so what good is it? you could most likely do that the old way with a quick push down on each valve spring retainer with an educated/ experienced thumb!
it sure looks like these gals were selected because they look good in a video, and they probably had a 3 minute long ..Q-card based education on what to say and do, for the VIDEO.....if it was my choice and looking at the tools vs what they do for me I'm rather inclined to spend $515 and get something REALLY USEFUL

$220 for this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-67597/overview/

$268 for this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66774/overview/

$515 for this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66776/overview/

PROFORM's new billet aluminum 1000 lb digital bench top spring tester is the most accurate way to check spring pressure. Check springs up to 1.5" in diameter and 3 7/8" in height. Digital display reads in 1 lb (0.5 kg) increments, and has a back lighting feature. Peak hold and automatic shutoff are other included features. Search part number 66776 at ProformParts.com for more information.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66776

http://www.buxtonengineering.com/on_head_valve_spring_tester.php

http://www.racingsprings.com/1300-Series-/1300-Series-/sku/33

http://www.racingsprings.com/1500-series/sku/34

good quality valve springs are fairly expensive, youll generally pay $250-$450 for decent valve springs and many guys start looking for far cheaper imported sets, that are of lower quality, at bargain prices, the problem is that you generally find a set, and comparing the price it makes it hard for some guys to remember YOU GENERALLY GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR AND THERE'S A DARN GOOD REASON THE IMPORTED PARTS ARE CHEAPER
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=903&p=12435&hilit=spring+compressor#p12435

http://www.harborfreight.com/universal- ... 92900.html

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=10409&p=43176#p43176

this type costs a good deal less and if your not in a hurry they function

 

[Indycars]

Thanks, no need to buy one twice, when I can let you do that.