What Head Gasket??

racprops

Well-Known Member

So as per strong suggestions I was going to be using a set of .015 FelPro Steel head gaskets 1094 with brush on Sealing Compound-RTV 5920 Copper Silicone Gasket Maker Loctite 37466.

These head gaskets are NOT Permanent Torque gaskets and it is STRONGLY suggested to retorque after a hot cycle.

This will be impossible to do. There are a number of problems, This is going into a 93 G20 Van getting at the head bolts will be impossible, there is almost no room to remove the headers, valve covers and then reach the head bolts.

So I reached out again and learned of MLS Gaskets.

Seems there are only two makers.

Felpro and Cometic Gasket, Inc

I can get a set of FelPro’s 1142.026 for around $100.00 .026 thick.

Or Cometic .023 custom made in 3 weeks for $220.00 .023 thick.

Both makers claim a onetime torque or a Permanent Torque.

Any reactions, feedback?

Rich

 
as usual Ill take a great deal of crap over this suggestion, but why not run a solid copper head gasket, they are re-usable, and while rather expensive Ive had very good luck and consistent results, no leaks etc, and no I did not use the grooved heads and block or embedded wires
ask RICK, hes using a set, and no thats not the way they suggest, but in 30 plus years I never had one fail

generally you'll select a head gasket thickness that allows as close to a .040-.045 thousands QUENCH and thats only marginally larger than the bore diameter
with the solid copper head gaskets you need clean and degreased block and head surfaces, clean with acetone, wipe dry, then spray both sides of solid copper gasket and let dry until tacky, (generally 13-14 minutes) re-spray just before you install and torque in place to let set over night, yes it says you need to use wire inserts in the block, Ive never done that and have yet to have a head gasket fail in 30 plus years
1 800-GASKET-0 (427-5380)




they come in lots of bore size and thickness from .021-.092 at about roughly every .0100 step

 
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I've had no problems with SCE Pro Copper head gasket. Spray it good with Permatex "Copper Spray-A-Gasket" (PN: 80697) on both sides, then wait 15-20 minutes and spray again and assemble heads to block. I checked torque and they didn't change.

I've reused them twice now and no problems there either.

For your bore size 4.030 I would be tempted to buy the 4.060 bore size gasket and grind anything that hangs into the combustion chamber. Or you could buy the 4.155, but that's going to leave a dead space that's not going to burn completely.


Estimated ship date is Aug 3rd
 
Interesting, I have read about all coper adn believe they are much more forgiving of slight devects in block serface??

So how thick do they come, and do they need retorquing??

Also my math saids 4.060 should be .030 larger that a 4.030, right??

And I just relised the FelPros are 4.100 Which give a .070 opening.

The Cometic gaskets are custom made and thus should come 4.030.

 
Contacted SCE, question was why 4.060 Answer is due to mush out factor, gasket will mash down and thus spread out.

2nd Question, do the require retorqueing, Answer: it is a good idea to retorque. But I should be good with one time torque adn a retorque a few days later.

3RD question, Are they good sealing with their .021 thickness a more or less shock undecked block and stock iron unmilled heads, answer was yes.

SO I ordered two SCE P110621 - SCE Pro Copper Head Gaskets Head Gasket, Copper, 4.060 in. Bore, 0.021 in. Thickness.

And as they only cost $137.75 vs over two hundred for the Cometic and they were making a gasket with a hole size of 4.030, they then said I will need to check my heads bore before using them after getting them in.

And FelPro only makes their MLS Gaskets in 4.100 and they cost nearly $175.00 and the thinnest was .023.

So copper it is.

Rich
 
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You will want to check their fit by placing them carefully over the dowel pins in the block to see if they hang over into the combustion space and grind anything that does. Head gaskets are not of the same precision as crankshafts and pistons, so their placement can be off slightly. They maybe .030" over size, but that's only .015" per side.
 
interesting video, but it seems based on most current overhead cam engines
 
New silly or genus idea.

It is said you should re-torque the heads after an engine had been run and reached operating temps.

My problem is it will take a lot of work to build an engine test stand. Plus mounting a carb intake and carb, a old distruptor and all the plumbing and then run it until hot, then switch all of that to my TPI setup.

And as my engine is going into a older 93 G20 van with a lot of plumbing, TPI etc. re-torqueing the heads is near impossible.

BUT what about using something like block heaters to warm the engine's water up to say 180 degrees?? And a small electric motor to run the water pump to insure full circulation or an electric water pump?? Or placing a radiator over a heater to warm the water and engine.

That way it can be summited to running temps with out running.

Rich
 
while it should help, its the rotating assembly vibration, valve train stresses, and combustion pressures, along with coolant heat that helps seat the head gaskets
personally I think retorquing the heads is wasted effort, Ive yet to have a correctly installed head gasket leak..... yeah I admit I usually use solid copper head gaskets

Elasticity – Copper has 25% coefficient of elasticity, which means in a 4-inch section, the copper head gasket will stretch to 5 inches before it ruptures. Because of this quality, copper will stretch before a catastrophic failure, thereby providing an extra measure of safety not available with other gasket materials.
 
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How much thickness does the copper spray add to the gasket?
I can see this affecting the target quench.
 
Well not needing to retoruqe the head bolts will save a lot of bother.

I am indeed running the two SCE P110621 - SCE Pro Copper Head Gaskets Head Gasket, Copper, 4.060 in. Bore, 0.021 in. Thickness. Heads are currently unmilled and as best as I know still stock.

And will spray it good with Permatex "Copper Spray-A-Gasket" (PN: 80697) on both sides, then wait 15-20 minutes and spray again and assemble heads to block. I checked torque and they didn't change.

I remember old instructions to torque the heads in steps, like tighten do a run at 50% of full torque, then 75% and then 100% of torque specs.

Somewhere I read to loosen the head bolts and retorque...again, or just let set over night and just retorque at 100% specs.

Rich
 
How much thickness does the copper spray add to the gasket?
I can see this affecting the target quench.
not enough difference in thickness, that I've ever seen the slightest difference or effect!
I've rarely bothered to retorque heads, and when I do I simply torque check the head bolts at full value without loosening, and only rarely see movement,
keep in mind I dip the bolt or stud threads (and use ARP studs or bolts):like: in a good matching the application ,sealant before the install.

related
generally you'll select a head gasket thickness that allows as close to a .040-.045 thousands QUENCH and thats only marginally larger than the bore diameter


http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/sbc-head-gasket-choice.11070/#post-79067

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/head-gasket-related.1859/#post-50617

http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/head-gasket.10085/#post-39429

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...ad-gasket-for-aluminum-heads.4403/#post-26317

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...asket-bore-size-vs-bore-size.2681/#post-11603
 
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Grumpy, your last post above is right on time. I will be assembling my engine shortly and that is great info.

As I am NOT running a high performance engine, I was planing on running the stock head bolts.

Also I am running IRON heads not aluminum, does that make any difference??

Rich
 
if anything cast iron heads and block combos are more stabile and less likely to have issues with head gasket issues/failures
 
I understand about that, as cast iron blocks and heads have to same expansion and contraction reaction VS Iron and aluminum.

So what about reusing the original head bolts?

Rich
 
The reason for using new bolts is the threads wear to each other upon tightening then loosening (about 5 times) in order to '
gain full contact on the threads. You can reuse the bolts if you put them in the same location holes they came out of. This is the technical
reason for using new bolts. If you use a bolt not matched to the threads...it will not seat 100% thread to thread...but like Grumpy says...
millions of people do it . In high power builds I would make damn sure the studs and nuts or bolts go in the same location if removed,
or buy new ones. Stock ...ehh maybe not.
 
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